I'm just finding it hilarious that the OP plays a CW. Most of the time when I am killed in PvP, it's by a well played CW.
On average, If they get the jump on me at range, they win. If I get the jump on them at close range, I win.
Bori - Renegade Drow - 40 Trickster Rogue - Mindflayer Elocin - Renegade Drow - 39 Devoted Cleric of Selune - Mindflayer
Looking for some Dust of Forum Troll Disappearance? Sprinkle this on any troll to phase shift them out of your plane of existence.
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vizeroheMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm just finding it hilarious that the OP plays a CW. Most of the time when I am killed in PvP, it's by a well played CW.
On average, If they get the jump on me at range, they win. If I get the jump on them at close range, I win.
I play a CW as well, like the OP. However, I do not find rogues over powered at all in pvp. I've even ran into very well played ones, and it happens just like you say. If some my skills are on CD, if that rogues starts the win, they win, but if all my skills are off CD, that rogue is dead first. Its all about what skills you have slotted for PvP.
Now, I hate PvP, not because of imbalance, nor certain classes. But I feel DnD games are NOT based on PvP, and should NEVER be the focus of a DnD game. Yes, it should be balanced, should be there, and should be kept clean, and fun, but never the focus. If I wanted to PvP all the time, I'd go play another game that focuses on core pvp, not a DnD game thats suppose to be about team work, and working together with friends, or even random strangers to get that dungeon conquered.
'If a rogue plays like a rogue and negates my ability to play like a wizard, he beats me 1v1. Wtf?'
Seriously?
So you're telling me that a CW beats a TR in a ranged fight, but the reverse is true in a close up fight?
And that the balancing factor is that the CW has to find ways to prevent the TR getting close (such as his amazing CC) but the TR has to find ways to sneak up on him (such as his stealth)?!?
This whole conversation... shouldn't be happening.
So you play a CW and you're complaining that TR's are overpowered?
Isn't that like saying "I have a gun, but your knife is overpowered"
I used to think that Rogues were overpowered, but as I played more and more PvP, I realized that Rogues (and every other class) are easily countered with essentially any other class.
Exactly. If a rogue catches you first, youre dead and if you catch the rogue first he is dead....if not well then that's you showing how bad you are in my opinion. A TR would be overpowered IF......you got the jump on the rogue during a 1v1 and he still killed you quickly majority of the time, but also gear and playstyle and skill possibly come into play.
I'm starting to see a pattern here. I am wondering how many people who are complaining about TR's, are making these posts after every bracket.
40-49 I thought they were tough, but I could beat them.
Now in the 50-59 bracket I am having an issue with them, but I haven't figured out how to deal with them yet. Right now, as it stands, if I don't get the jump on them first, then I will have a really hard time beating them before they kill me in 4 moves.
I play a GF.
Why do I say this? They have that jump in the air ability that 'incapacitates' you. You can run around but can't perform any actions/dodge/block, but also in the 50-59 I see them get this "Daze" or Smoke Bomb ability which is the exact same damned thing. Unless I'm already Blocking when I walk into it or they use the ability, I'm just as screwed. So here's what I go through.
"****, Rogue, I just saw the name, where is it....."
*frantically spins around while guarding to avoid an opening maneuver*
*Get's Caught off Guard from the blink behind move*
*Gets hit with the fly in the air move*
-=Flashing Blades=-
*Smoke Bomb*
-=Death By Random Attacks=-
If there are 2 rogues, if they do the Flashing Blades thing on me at the same time, my Guard bar will disappear in about 1-2 Seconds. Then I'm royally screwed they can feel free to CC me alternating and I'm dead twice as fast.
But ya, still trying to figure out how to deal with that smoke bomb. There _HAS_ to be a better way.
I just got crit for 23k by a solo rogue while I was at full HP (I have full pvp gear, some pve in off-slots, and am barely cresting 20k. Defense & Heals spec cleric). Is this supposed to be funny?
Didn't read all the way through because there's a LOT of pages and my time is short. If I remember correctly, don't wizards have the ability to blink 3 times normally? So can't you just move away from the rogue if they're chasing you? The last time I checked, they needed to stand still in order to do an attack. You could always just move away until the stun wears off, then blink away to keep them at a distance. Then CC/DPS them down. This is what usually happens to me when I try to take out a wizard with my rogue. Unless said wizard isn't a very good player. Then they just kind of stand there looking at me stupidly while I have my way with them. The same goes for clerics. By the way, PvP in this game, ends up being a gang-up on the other person/s. This seems to be the norm and expected. I'm not really sure what kind of rogues you've been facing, but whenever I try to take on more than 1 person by myself. I just end up getting facerolled. I AM playing at level 60 though so maybe the game is different there?
"If you're going to ride my HAMSTER... At least pull my hair" Taking the trash out, one badguy at a time. "Satisfaction guaranteed or twice your trash back."
I can 1v1 a Rogue no problem, but man.
If he gets the jump on me, it's over. Lol.
So first rogue is OP, now you can 1v1 them np? Sounds like a typical "Wah, X class beat me once, nerf!" Dazing strike is a complete joke to dodge, between repel, choke, a stun, 3 teleports and many other ways to keep your target any everyone around it at bay, I'm not sure you have room to complain about the one dps class in the game being op when you can more or less global them within a CC as well.
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ushiox3Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
seriously, who dares to say that Trickster are to OP while playing a CW is an idiot e_e i've played against a ton of CW's and tbh, when trickster wouldn't be able to be sneaky for a few seconds, the CW would destroy them easily, stun + dmg combo = instant win <- Trickster has the lowest defense / health in that case e_e also, when ur fighting against 2 CW's in PvP, ur mostly doomed > _> so complaining about Trickster (wich got nerfed 2 times already) isn't that awsum in that view :V
I'm pretty good with keeping them at bay; most classes, in that case.
It's that stealth jump and silence thing they do.
It's crazy.
This post right here is why you should not be taken seriously. Deft strike's (stealth jump) range increases to 40 yard when in stealth mode. It will break stealth once you use it though. That's 1 encounter power on Cooldown (10s), and you will now be visible. Assuming a Lashing blade (big sideways blue blade, does a lot of damage) follows, that's another Encounter on Cooldown (20s). Their last encounter will likely be Dazing Strike. If not in stealth mode, this takes about 1.5 seconds to connect and you have to be in melee distance to use it (10s CD). Is this enough to kill a decent enough geared CW? No. Deft strike = ~3k dmg, lashing blade ~15k dmg (if crit), Dazing strike ~7k dmg.
So we got ~25k worth of dmg to dish out + some knives, and this is assuming that crits land and that the CW doesn't dodge a single attack. Okay, now back to reality:
Decent CW's will have a good enough reflex to dodge the hit (lashing blade) after deft strike. Huh, that's weird? You might think. Nope, because CW's are the only class that have a bugged dodge roll. They will dodge the lashing blade up to 1.5 seconds after it connects. Now let's look at what a CW can throw at people. Having an OP dodge roll is not the only thing that they got goin for them.
I'm going to talk like you now, except I've accumulated nearly 100k glory points by PvPing so atleast I can make an educated guess based on my experience. CW's have so many crowd control attacks that they will basically never be in trouble in a 1 vs 1 or even 2 vs 1 with a melee class. The nightmare magic ice prism in particular is way too OP - it does an insane amount of damage (more than lashing blade) AND knocks the opponent down. The CW can then continue to farcast their opponent if they are not dead yet while the opponent tries to get back up on their feet.
CW's also have access to a suction move that makes everyone nearby get pulled towards it and explode in the air. They also have access to another AoE move that does quite a lot of dps (equal or greater than dazing strike, and Multi target) which also knocks all of the opponents off their feet. They also have access to a Freeze hold move which immobilizes an opponent and has a chance of freezing them for an even longer duration of immobilizing them.
Combine the bugged dodge roll with the above and you have your answer why people are getting upset with you. CW's should in fact be the class to receive a nerf, and a big one at that. They have far too much control - can basically kill any opponent without being touched & FROM DISTANCE. They will spend very little time without having access to 1 of the crowd control moves, and they will simply abuse their bugged dodge roll in the meanwhile until the CD ends.
With rogues, you have to aim your melee attacks very carefully aswell or you'll miss your target. With CW you can just press attack and win. Encounter powers should not have such significant power compared to the other classes. I have just given perfect arguments why CW should get nerfed. I also feel that the double cleric combo should be nerfed aswell, in form of being able to heal clerics for lesser amounts than other classes. They would still be game changing because of their blue shield power, but that's another story.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
I just got crit for 23k by a solo rogue while I was at full HP (I have full pvp gear, some pve in off-slots, and am barely cresting 20k. Defense & Heals spec cleric). Is this supposed to be funny?
Obviously you haven't played vs a well geared CW yet.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
Comments
On average, If they get the jump on me at range, they win. If I get the jump on them at close range, I win.
Elocin - Renegade Drow - 39 Devoted Cleric of Selune - Mindflayer
Looking for some Dust of Forum Troll Disappearance ? Sprinkle this on any troll to phase shift them out of your plane of existence.
I play a CW as well, like the OP. However, I do not find rogues over powered at all in pvp. I've even ran into very well played ones, and it happens just like you say. If some my skills are on CD, if that rogues starts the win, they win, but if all my skills are off CD, that rogue is dead first. Its all about what skills you have slotted for PvP.
Now, I hate PvP, not because of imbalance, nor certain classes. But I feel DnD games are NOT based on PvP, and should NEVER be the focus of a DnD game. Yes, it should be balanced, should be there, and should be kept clean, and fun, but never the focus. If I wanted to PvP all the time, I'd go play another game that focuses on core pvp, not a DnD game thats suppose to be about team work, and working together with friends, or even random strangers to get that dungeon conquered.
That's my opinion. Thanks for reading.
Signed, Vizeroh
Seriously?
So you're telling me that a CW beats a TR in a ranged fight, but the reverse is true in a close up fight?
And that the balancing factor is that the CW has to find ways to prevent the TR getting close (such as his amazing CC) but the TR has to find ways to sneak up on him (such as his stealth)?!?
This whole conversation... shouldn't be happening.
Learn to dodge rouge attacks.
Isn't that like saying "I have a gun, but your knife is overpowered"
I used to think that Rogues were overpowered, but as I played more and more PvP, I realized that Rogues (and every other class) are easily countered with essentially any other class.
This right here.
40-49 I thought they were tough, but I could beat them.
Now in the 50-59 bracket I am having an issue with them, but I haven't figured out how to deal with them yet. Right now, as it stands, if I don't get the jump on them first, then I will have a really hard time beating them before they kill me in 4 moves.
I play a GF.
Why do I say this? They have that jump in the air ability that 'incapacitates' you. You can run around but can't perform any actions/dodge/block, but also in the 50-59 I see them get this "Daze" or Smoke Bomb ability which is the exact same damned thing. Unless I'm already Blocking when I walk into it or they use the ability, I'm just as screwed. So here's what I go through.
"****, Rogue, I just saw the name, where is it....."
*frantically spins around while guarding to avoid an opening maneuver*
*Get's Caught off Guard from the blink behind move*
*Gets hit with the fly in the air move*
-=Flashing Blades=-
*Smoke Bomb*
-=Death By Random Attacks=-
If there are 2 rogues, if they do the Flashing Blades thing on me at the same time, my Guard bar will disappear in about 1-2 Seconds. Then I'm royally screwed they can feel free to CC me alternating and I'm dead twice as fast.
But ya, still trying to figure out how to deal with that smoke bomb. There _HAS_ to be a better way.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"If you're going to ride my HAMSTER... At least pull my hair"
Taking the trash out, one badguy at a time.
"Satisfaction guaranteed or twice your trash back."
So first rogue is OP, now you can 1v1 them np? Sounds like a typical "Wah, X class beat me once, nerf!" Dazing strike is a complete joke to dodge, between repel, choke, a stun, 3 teleports and many other ways to keep your target any everyone around it at bay, I'm not sure you have room to complain about the one dps class in the game being op when you can more or less global them within a CC as well.
This post right here is why you should not be taken seriously. Deft strike's (stealth jump) range increases to 40 yard when in stealth mode. It will break stealth once you use it though. That's 1 encounter power on Cooldown (10s), and you will now be visible. Assuming a Lashing blade (big sideways blue blade, does a lot of damage) follows, that's another Encounter on Cooldown (20s). Their last encounter will likely be Dazing Strike. If not in stealth mode, this takes about 1.5 seconds to connect and you have to be in melee distance to use it (10s CD). Is this enough to kill a decent enough geared CW? No. Deft strike = ~3k dmg, lashing blade ~15k dmg (if crit), Dazing strike ~7k dmg.
So we got ~25k worth of dmg to dish out + some knives, and this is assuming that crits land and that the CW doesn't dodge a single attack. Okay, now back to reality:
Decent CW's will have a good enough reflex to dodge the hit (lashing blade) after deft strike. Huh, that's weird? You might think. Nope, because CW's are the only class that have a bugged dodge roll. They will dodge the lashing blade up to 1.5 seconds after it connects. Now let's look at what a CW can throw at people. Having an OP dodge roll is not the only thing that they got goin for them.
I'm going to talk like you now, except I've accumulated nearly 100k glory points by PvPing so atleast I can make an educated guess based on my experience. CW's have so many crowd control attacks that they will basically never be in trouble in a 1 vs 1 or even 2 vs 1 with a melee class. The nightmare magic ice prism in particular is way too OP - it does an insane amount of damage (more than lashing blade) AND knocks the opponent down. The CW can then continue to farcast their opponent if they are not dead yet while the opponent tries to get back up on their feet.
CW's also have access to a suction move that makes everyone nearby get pulled towards it and explode in the air. They also have access to another AoE move that does quite a lot of dps (equal or greater than dazing strike, and Multi target) which also knocks all of the opponents off their feet. They also have access to a Freeze hold move which immobilizes an opponent and has a chance of freezing them for an even longer duration of immobilizing them.
Combine the bugged dodge roll with the above and you have your answer why people are getting upset with you. CW's should in fact be the class to receive a nerf, and a big one at that. They have far too much control - can basically kill any opponent without being touched & FROM DISTANCE. They will spend very little time without having access to 1 of the crowd control moves, and they will simply abuse their bugged dodge roll in the meanwhile until the CD ends.
With rogues, you have to aim your melee attacks very carefully aswell or you'll miss your target. With CW you can just press attack and win. Encounter powers should not have such significant power compared to the other classes. I have just given perfect arguments why CW should get nerfed. I also feel that the double cleric combo should be nerfed aswell, in form of being able to heal clerics for lesser amounts than other classes. They would still be game changing because of their blue shield power, but that's another story.
Obviously you haven't played vs a well geared CW yet.