quickness87Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Didn't bother to read every post, but, perhaps rather than nerfing TR, they should buff the other classes. (I'm a GWF and GF)
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xantrisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Every time I've played against a good control wizard I felt like they were ridiculously OP. They knock me away, lock my toon up, and then I get a train run on me while i furtively try and stealth or dodge behind friendly lines with a sliver of health left.
Of course I don't come on the forums and make ridiculous threads about it 3 days after head-start launch, because that would be really stupid.
Every time I've played against a good control wizard I felt like they were ridiculously OP. They knock me away, lock my toon up, and then I get a train run on me while i furtively try and stealth or dodge behind friendly lines with a sliver of health left.
Of course I don't come on the forums and make ridiculous threads about it 3 days after head-start launch, because that would be really stupid.
see there are smart ppl that play this game. Proof.
"Drive it like u stole it"
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kromzorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited April 2013
Well its still "beta" sigh.
I've been under the impression that TR is still filling in for whatever Non-Assassiny Rouge they're also working on and thats why their power level is so ridiculous.
High Burst coming out of stealth and Cool Down Survivability like they should have, plus High Sustained DPS without stealth and decent durability like the other Rouge (Swashbuckler/Duelist type) will have.
I could be wrong though.
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jaer44Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited April 2013
As mentioned several times before:
According to 4E D&D ruleset; Fighter is a defender class. TR is the only striker in this game atm, once the ranger is introduced, then we'll have another striker to compare to.
Too many people are stuck the the traditional MMO conventions where all "dps" classes should be equal. Do GWF need a bit of a buff in the early levels (many have already stated that GWF opens up and starts to do well in the later levels) to make it less painful. But here's how I see it:
Tank holds the main bad guy/boss
Striker (TR) focuses on ST on the boss
GWF takes care of any adds that may spawn, as an offtank/secondary dps
CW helps on adds (CC'ing the larger adds) and boss
DC does their healing thing
you no these aren't all the class's right? The rogue is the only truely dps class that is out right now.... Pls check the info on your class and the other class's that aren't in game yet and you will under stand... Rogue is the only full dps that is out atm.. The CW is not a Full dps its a controller...... Stop trying to make the CW into a full dps class...
No they shouldn't... Not one of those class's are full DPS class's... OMG pls look at the other class's that aren't out yet then you will see.. Wait till the other DPS (Archer) come out then you will see that GWF, CW are not full dps class's...... GW is Off Tank/DPS, Control Wiz is a Controller (AOE)/DPS....... You get it now? Thats why I didn't like the fact that the devs tried to keep the other class's a secret... The way it is right now everyone thinks the rogues dps/damage should eb the same as a offtank/dps and a controller (AOE)/dps.... This is what happens when you don't put out all the info on class's.... What ever
TR should be high burst damage not high overall damage
they should even out in a dungeon with CWs and GWFs, and clerics should be able to either dps or offtank - not both, in addition to their healing - if at all
currently rogues top damage charts like nobodies business, GWFs do less damage than GFs. CWs are fine imo.
As many have said the TR is the only pure DPS class in the game so of course its going to have the best DPS and it should.
Another factor many people do not consider as this is a D&D game and being a D&D game PvE takes precedence over PvP in terms of balance. If your playing this game and expecting the classes to be balanced in PvP then your going to be sorely let down. D&D is and always will be a GROUPED based game. Classes & class roles are balanced around groups and teams of players.
If a TR beats you in DPS in a dungeon and your not a TR then ya know what he did his job as a Striker. If the TR in the group was not the top DPS then he failed your group.
i bet they will be balanced after all paragon paths will come out
and TR does only single target damage vs aoe dmg of GWF
So Dont Worry
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kromzorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited April 2013
"Its a pure DPS class!"
"Its D&D!"
d6 HP class only having 15-20% fewer HPs than a d10 HP class.
Its time to accept you're playing an Overpowered character.
Rouge does lots of damage? Thats great, but they aren't supposed to be able to just stand there and brawl all day face rolling everything. Rouges are also supposed to go splat easily too. Thats the trade off for their damage.
d6 HP class only having 15-20% fewer HPs than a d10 HP class.
Its time to accept you're playing an Overpowered character.
Rouge does lots of damage? Thats great, but they aren't supposed to be able to just stand there and brawl all day face rolling everything. Rouges are also supposed to go splat easily too. Thats the trade off for their damage.
Except that trade off doesn't exist right now.
That is true! They are not fully balanced, neither is the GWF who should be able to survive better then he currently does. Nothing is perfect and there is tweaking to be done for sure. However the argument still stands that the TR should have the highest DPS in the game as its the only Striker Class in game.
The point is the constant "ZOMG TRs PWN DPS" QQ is incorrect when they should have the highest DPS. You are actually the first person I have seen bring up the real problem with the TRs atm.
Rogues are soooo overpowered!!haha jk I can 1v1 them no problem
If you can 1v1 a rogue then what's your issue exactly? I was trying to be polite earlier but it's VERY clear you have no idea how to play your class; I jump CW's daily and daze them and still cannot kill them. Here's a hint: DON'T STAND THERE LIKE A <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ON A LOG.
You think Daze is harsh huh? You'd better look up "Impossible to Catch" then, that's what I used instead of Daze when I PvP. It doesn't stun you, at least there's that.
Mages, I swear. If you can't range it to death you cry for nerfs.
I just made one my self, lvl 4, but I'm already liking it. After reading your post, It just made me want to continue on with my Trickster. What lvl are you on?
Before most of you (yes, most; since a good portion of players are TR's) try to rip me from limb to limb, allow me to clarify.
First things first, I play a CW.
I'm fully aware that my class really isn't designed to put out hefty dps, as well as the fact that I'm squishy to say the least.
Although whether it be in PvE or PvP, the Rogues do a tremendous output of dps, with really no cons at all.
It most cases in PvE, the players to top the dps table, are rogues.
In PvP, they can light you up in seconds.
Whether it be their abilities that can literally take away 40% of your HP, or the ability to 'silence' you; they are virtually unstoppable.
I've seen a single Rogue take on two GWF and rip them apart in under 20 seconds.
Like I had stated, they usually have the upper hand in PvE in terms of DPS,
but in PvP they can take down any class like it's nothing.
I can now understand why they're so popular in the community.
Simply because they own everything.
I hardly see balance with them in comparison to the other available classes.
[Also, let me just add that I don't really appreciate any rude comments or malcontent. I'm just voicing my opinion, and I would like the thread to stay open for discussion; any demeaning remarks can taint this thread and subject it to violations within the forum agreements. So please. If you know you're about to rage, take it elsewhere. Keep in mind that negative things are better left unsaid.]
You don't know how to play your class very well if you think TRs are OP. As a fellow CW, I laugh maniacally at the HUGE advantage I have over most people.
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dendagilMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
I love this class!
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deophyteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 16Arc User
edited April 2013
I have been playing a LOT of pvp on my TR and GF from their very beginning. They both sit at about 32 and 21 respectively.
Some games on my TR I go 25-4 and some games I go 6-20.
On my GF... I've been winning most of my games. Why? Because I tank the **** out of everything. I get everyone to focus me, so they all die one by one while they try to get me.
It really depends on your team and who they focus. I had a team that was almost all TR's and we got smoked horribly.
You don't "earn" the right to call it "overpowered" just because you don't know who to focus and your team doesn't know either.
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tracknumber7Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
Every CW I've encountered as a TR has rolled me time after time in PvP. I thought that was the strategy all along? I'll get most of the focus usually about 80% of the time just because I'm playing a TR and I can understand that. But a CW can literally shut you down for a longer period of time than the TR can. I'm not raging or being negative, OP's posts hold some good points, but:
I'm pretty good with keeping them at bay; most classes, in that case.
It's that stealth jump and silence thing they do.
It's crazy.
You're a control wizard and it seems like you're bashing TR's because they're shutting you down in PvP but you don't have a problem with other classes because they can rarely kill you. I'm not being negative, just stating the obvious.
Deft strike and lashing blade are so easy to dodge, i can never get those off on a control wizard and then they stun - push me and i'm dead after 20secs without having done more then 1000 damage..
Deft strike and lashing blade have a delay. the attack animation is already shown but they can still dodge it.. the sound of the attack is also already heard but they still dodge it.. I hope this will get fixed since it ruins so many times my attemps to kill a control wizard.
BTW, i hope cryptic makes the attacks in stealth invisible, since they can see the attacks they can dodge it.. after the animation ..
in pvp.
DPS class is obviously going to be massively overpowered when everyone is underleveld and undergeared.
Are you wearing +defense, +hp, +deflection gear?
no? then a rogue is going to kill you in 5seconds.
The natural gear progression/itemization will favor high dps.
Conversely, as you DO start gearing those stats for pvp, control wiz and Clerics will start being far far more powerful, as rogues will no longer be able to burst them down, allowing CC and heals to take full effect.
Pve, rogues have 1 job. DPS. Of course they will be good at it.
Lurkers probably needs to be looked at. its clearly way way better then the other dailys. So either the rest are under powered, or its overpowered.
God I wish every CW would act like the OP. Seeing the Dazing Strike animation and just waiting for it. Glorious. I would own so much more. Unfortunately most wizards see the animation, wait for it to hit, blink then and dodge the effect. Yeah they can do that. And if I'm lucky enough to daze them, guess what ...they dont stand still, the run around which makes it annoying to hit them then ..but what do I know, right?
I've been PvP'ing exclusively for awhile now and I can assure you that CWs and Rogues are pretty equal in the one trick pony category. They are meant to counter each other. Both classes may look OP compared to the others, and while that may be true, the fact of the matter is that a skilled rogue will beat a CW every time and a skilled CW will beat a rogue every time.
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ahkronnemesisMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
As a DC I obviously find them annoying, but it's not the TR per itself that would make me complain. Rather I'd complain about the CC system in place. A single TR can be a pain, specially if it jumps on me from stealth, but add a CW to it, and I'll be 100% of the time CC'd. Silence, frozen, pushed back, swallowed by a dark hole thing... man, it's just a pain.
IMO there should be a CC immunity system in place to avoid this kind of things. Most games have it for a reason.
I don't mind being owned by some class (or every class) but at least let me try.
[Campaign] Into the Heart of Time (NWS-DLSK763NH) by @ahkronnemesis
Chapter I - The Cult of Kairos (NW-DJFINX9KB)
Chapter II - The Halls of Mortality (NW-DOE3ZC671)
Chapter III - Paradox ( Soon )
Comments
Why is it all we hear as a comeback is lrn to play ur class lol. That and its meant to be op dps its a striker....
oh really? then my GF takes 1 damage from your rogue, because hes a defender, understand now how stupid that logic is?
just because its a striker does not mean its suppose to be an OP class
Dude i think u read as me being rogue when im not. Its the rogues thats say lrn2play as a constant comeback.
'Nuff said. Motivation confirmed. Full stop.
Of course I don't come on the forums and make ridiculous threads about it 3 days after head-start launch, because that would be really stupid.
see there are smart ppl that play this game. Proof.
I've been under the impression that TR is still filling in for whatever Non-Assassiny Rouge they're also working on and thats why their power level is so ridiculous.
High Burst coming out of stealth and Cool Down Survivability like they should have, plus High Sustained DPS without stealth and decent durability like the other Rouge (Swashbuckler/Duelist type) will have.
I could be wrong though.
According to 4E D&D ruleset; Fighter is a defender class. TR is the only striker in this game atm, once the ranger is introduced, then we'll have another striker to compare to.
Too many people are stuck the the traditional MMO conventions where all "dps" classes should be equal. Do GWF need a bit of a buff in the early levels (many have already stated that GWF opens up and starts to do well in the later levels) to make it less painful. But here's how I see it:
Tank holds the main bad guy/boss
Striker (TR) focuses on ST on the boss
GWF takes care of any adds that may spawn, as an offtank/secondary dps
CW helps on adds (CC'ing the larger adds) and boss
DC does their healing thing
Another factor many people do not consider as this is a D&D game and being a D&D game PvE takes precedence over PvP in terms of balance. If your playing this game and expecting the classes to be balanced in PvP then your going to be sorely let down. D&D is and always will be a GROUPED based game. Classes & class roles are balanced around groups and teams of players.
If a TR beats you in DPS in a dungeon and your not a TR then ya know what he did his job as a Striker. If the TR in the group was not the top DPS then he failed your group.
and TR does only single target damage vs aoe dmg of GWF
So Dont Worry
"Its D&D!"
d6 HP class only having 15-20% fewer HPs than a d10 HP class.
Its time to accept you're playing an Overpowered character.
Rouge does lots of damage? Thats great, but they aren't supposed to be able to just stand there and brawl all day face rolling everything. Rouges are also supposed to go splat easily too. Thats the trade off for their damage.
Except that trade off doesn't exist right now.
That is true! They are not fully balanced, neither is the GWF who should be able to survive better then he currently does. Nothing is perfect and there is tweaking to be done for sure. However the argument still stands that the TR should have the highest DPS in the game as its the only Striker Class in game.
The point is the constant "ZOMG TRs PWN DPS" QQ is incorrect when they should have the highest DPS. You are actually the first person I have seen bring up the real problem with the TRs atm.
Then why did you create this (*&*@&% thread.
Rogues are soooo overpowered!! haha jk I can 1v1 them no problem
If you can 1v1 a rogue then what's your issue exactly? I was trying to be polite earlier but it's VERY clear you have no idea how to play your class; I jump CW's daily and daze them and still cannot kill them. Here's a hint: DON'T STAND THERE LIKE A <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ON A LOG.
You think Daze is harsh huh? You'd better look up "Impossible to Catch" then, that's what I used instead of Daze when I PvP. It doesn't stun you, at least there's that.
Mages, I swear. If you can't range it to death you cry for nerfs.
Some games on my TR I go 25-4 and some games I go 6-20.
On my GF... I've been winning most of my games. Why? Because I tank the **** out of everything. I get everyone to focus me, so they all die one by one while they try to get me.
It really depends on your team and who they focus. I had a team that was almost all TR's and we got smoked horribly.
You don't "earn" the right to call it "overpowered" just because you don't know who to focus and your team doesn't know either.
You're a control wizard and it seems like you're bashing TR's because they're shutting you down in PvP but you don't have a problem with other classes because they can rarely kill you. I'm not being negative, just stating the obvious.
Welcome to PvP. :P
Deft strike and lashing blade have a delay. the attack animation is already shown but they can still dodge it.. the sound of the attack is also already heard but they still dodge it.. I hope this will get fixed since it ruins so many times my attemps to kill a control wizard.
BTW, i hope cryptic makes the attacks in stealth invisible, since they can see the attacks they can dodge it.. after the animation ..
DPS class is obviously going to be massively overpowered when everyone is underleveld and undergeared.
Are you wearing +defense, +hp, +deflection gear?
no? then a rogue is going to kill you in 5seconds.
The natural gear progression/itemization will favor high dps.
Conversely, as you DO start gearing those stats for pvp, control wiz and Clerics will start being far far more powerful, as rogues will no longer be able to burst them down, allowing CC and heals to take full effect.
Pve, rogues have 1 job. DPS. Of course they will be good at it.
Lurkers probably needs to be looked at. its clearly way way better then the other dailys. So either the rest are under powered, or its overpowered.
IMO there should be a CC immunity system in place to avoid this kind of things. Most games have it for a reason.
I don't mind being owned by some class (or every class) but at least let me try.
Chapter I - The Cult of Kairos (NW-DJFINX9KB)
Chapter II - The Halls of Mortality (NW-DOE3ZC671)
Chapter III - Paradox ( Soon )