I always try to play fairly in PUGs. Only rolling need on items that are an upgrade for the class I am playing,
and as I am an alt ***** I could conceivably use all items I loot.
The sad truth of the matter unfortunately is that one or more people always roll need for every drop they see,
this just has the effect of making everybody roll need and it stops people that truly deserve the upgrades from getting what they are doing the quest for.
Not only is it annoying as hell and very antisocial it ruins the spirit of the game and makes old men like me very bitter, I now have very little faith in
Humanity and think that every body out there are just greedy, self absorbed, whiney little ****es.
Please prove me wrong and play the game in the spirit it was intended and not as a pack of thieving bastiches.
I always try to play fairly in PUGs. Only rolling need on items that are an upgrade for the class I am playing,
and as I am an alt ***** I could conceivably use all items I loot.
The sad truth of the matter unfortunately is that one or more people always roll need for every drop they see,
this just has the effect of making everybody roll need and it stops people that truly deserve the upgrades from getting what they are doing the quest for.
Not only is it annoying as hell and very antisocial it ruins the spirit of the game and makes old men like me very bitter, I now have very little faith in
Humanity and think that every body out there are just greedy, self absorbed, whiney little ****es.
Please prove me wrong and play the game in the spirit it was intended and not as a pack of thieving bastiches.
not enough old school like you or i around for that im affraid nowdays
Join a guild, play with your friends and this problem goes away.
I think the solution is not to ignore the problem but prevent it from occurring in the first place. Pricks will always be pricks but if you stop them from being one it might make them learn.
I would never need/greed on an item which wasn't for my class but if everybody passes I'll happily pick it up.
My brother on the other hand...well...it took a lot of scolding and educating for him to not take stuff which didn't belong to his class.
...and I still have to check the top of the screen to make sure he's not claiming my cleric items.
The thing is he doesn't do it because he is trying to take it all for himself. He does it because he figures it's equal opportunity. The way he would prefer it to work is to auto-give the item to a random person in the group regardless of the class requirements. So he naturally needs everything with the expectation everybody else will need an item.
So it's not always about being scummy. If it wasn't for dealing with my own brother I'd be agreeing with you but he's not doing it because he find joy in taking all the items. I saw that first hand.
If you ask for it, even a random person, he'd give it up if it was for your class.
I would like to see a more in depth system but I'm not exactly sure what. Greed has been a key part in D&D since...ever. The thieves always tried to take more than their fair share! That was, in many regards, part of the fun.
But at the same time it's not exactly 100% functional as is.
I'd like to see, maybe, a roll modifier if the item is for your class. Say you get +20 on every need roll if it's for your class.
Failing a change in the loot roll system, it appears to me, that if someone or several someones need everything, you( generic you) are well within your rights to do the same. I'm not saying that you, or I, or Tom, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and Harry should start the group/dungeon that way. See how the first few rolls go and if a pattern emerges, follow that pattern for yourself. If you like, you can say to the group that as rolling need on everything does seem to be the pattern, you'll accommodate your preferences to those of the group and do the same. Alternatively, ask how others will be rolling and follow suit.
Well if boss drops couldn't be sold everybody would suffer. Let's say I ran a dungeon as a cleric with a few friends and didn't have a Control Wizard in the group and we got a CW drop. Well, shucks!
So, really, what this comes down to is a problem which is probably caused by 10-50% of the player base, likely more towards 20-30 than anything else, and yes I am pulling numbers out of the abyss...
So my opinion on this matter comes down to: should everybody suffer because of a handful of people?
And to that I don't have an answer.
I'm sure there's a way to improve it but personally I don't want to see the entire thing handicapped to the point that you can only need on items your class needs and such. Controlling people is a double edged sword which hurts the same people it often tries to protect.
It's a very gray area to me.
INDEED!
Lottie
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There is no reason why Cryptic didn't implement a simple class check for need rolls.
it's called being slack and learning NOTHING from other MMORPG's.
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jeepfreeqMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Well, considering that there are companions that may be a different class, I don't think I want that restricted. I have a cleric, but my companion is a man at arms. One of his slots is a sword knot, something that I will roll a need on if I ever see it come up because well, I need one.
There's also a case to be made for alts. I'm always on the lookout for gear for my control wiz even when I'm playing as my cleric. I can say that I've never sold something on the auction house that I've won in a roll, but I often roll on stuff that isn't usable by the exact class I'm playing because I want to outfit a companion, an alt, or just a friend of mine.
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scopeblsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited May 2013
The lack of old fashioned loot etiquette these days is deeply troubling and when used as intended the simple three option system is a perfectly fine one.
I just do what I have always done, Pass on an item I cannot use with that character, Greed on utility items or items that appear useful to multiple classes, Need on items specifically for my class if necessary.
The guy at the top of the page is why I roll need. Dude has 70 excuses why he is rolling for everything. When you have people rolling for their 5th cousin 12 times removed who might check out the game next month you might as well roll need to.
I spend all day reading every thread and letting people know this is BETA.
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masonity84Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited May 2013
Just character bind any item that's need rolled. Suddenly people only need on stuff they need on that character, unless they desperately "need" that 30 copper.
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deadmanetMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited May 2013
*note* Haven't been in game yet due to downloading issues(dummy me didn't try getting client until 4/30), so I might be off a little on some of this, as I have not seen the game first hand myself yet, but the general idea should be the same.
Here's a suggestion based on other's ideas, and my own experiences with MMO's over the years:
Have four options to choose from at the start of the quest. And have the group vote on which option they want, majority rules.
1) Need/Greed/Pass Exactly how it's implemented now
2) Need/Greed/Pass You would only get the Need option if it was for your class, otherwise you only see Greed/Pass
3) Random assignment Item get's randomly assigned to a player
4) Round Robin Loot just gets assigned to each player in turn. Starts with 1 player and then goes to the next in line after each item.
Each option has their own pros and cons. But each one has a valid place in the group for different reasons.
I know that seems like a lot of extra steps, but in my opinion it's the only way to please as many people as possible. As we all should know, you will never able to be able to please all the players of a MMO at once.
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highdivelowlifeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
i understand the OP. if your in a group of family and friends its easy to set up a set of rules before play. but theres nothing i hate more than playing a game with a certain type of MMO gamer that has a pre set of rules and they also expect everyone else to play the same way.
what happens if theres a rogue and a warrior running and theres 5 war drops and ZERO rogue? thats not fair at all. i think the most fair thing is to play by the rules the game establishes... i can't stand WoW guilds where theres 10 commandments for how to play your class, how to roll for loot, how to equip your class and what skills to take. worst group of people to play with, i'm not saying thats who you are OP, in fact you seem like a decent gamer. but i feel like so many other jerks ruin set guild runs or PUGs.
i remember playing swtor beta and did a 3 man run and kept rolling "Greed" (which the order is- 1. NEED 2. greed 3. pass) and assumed that if someone needed it they would roll need. so here i find out at the end how the 1 guy wasn't going to invite me back into any groups because i kept rolling "greed". WTF should i be rolling mr president? lol. i'm sick of the 'player' rules. and sometimes they end up not being fair if items only drop for 1 class over and over...
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
seriously check out the AH.
you don't need to worry about ninja's or missing out on drops. They're all on there waiting for your hard earned or well spent cash!
digumsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
personaly I tend to only need when an item for the toon i am running comes up, I think that is the more polite way of doing it. people that need on every item <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> me off
There is no reason why Cryptic didn't implement a simple class check for need rolls.
same.
Or reveal the reason behind this decision on why there is no class loot restriction which i dont think there is any at all.
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kaleidobearMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
In my opinion the "need" option has always been considered the "I want to equip this item on my character"-kind of thing. If I want an item for an alt, I ask the group if everyone's okay with that. If I want to sell stuff, I roll greed (because that is what greed means! :P)
If I see an item that is only for my class, I check if it is higher level than what I am currently wearing - if it is I roll need, otherwise I greed on it as well.
I know different people have different opinions on the need/greed system, a simple way to fix that - and other more serious things - would be the option to vote-kick players out of the instance. Right now, if the group is unhappy with the behaviour of an individual they can either suck it up and continue or the bulk of the group leaves and starts over, which can get frustrating pretty quick.
Like others have said, the major issue here is that Dungeon loot isn't BoP.
Make Dungeon loot BoP. Having loot being able to be sold/traded from Dungeons lowers the appeal of the game imo. See a guy with armor that came from a hard Dungeon?...Probably just bought it. Learn from games before you Cryptic. I have no idea how loot works for end game Dungeons and what not, but if it's also tradable...that's a joke.
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Or reveal the reason behind this decision on why there is no class loot restriction which i dont think there is any at all.
because it's how Perfect World Entertainment roll.
Money hungry and little care to the longevity of a foreign IP.
No BoP loot, this game is dead within a month. Mark my words.
The only thing fanboys will be doing is foundry and even that gets tiresome and pointless.
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thirdeye69Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
this is the problem that i've learned comes with the f2p crowd. almost every single sub game rarely has this problem in pugs that i've seen.
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
Almost ever dungeon group today that I have done, I've seen just about every one rolling need on everything to put it on the auction house. It is so out of order when you are in a group an item drops for your class and some one takes it who cannot use it and blatantly announces that they are doing it for the auction house.
To top it off ignore does not stop you from getting grouped with these people again in the future.
Can we please have a improved loot system where only the class that can use such item can roll on it while in groups? This is becoming epidemic... Group dungeon I was just in great weapon fighter two handed weapon drops... rogue rolls needs and then when asked why, he casually reply's "Because I need AD".
I am playing a Cleric and have not been hurt by this yet due to lucky rolls, but its shocking to behold.
blue level 26 weapons on the auction house are listed at 200,000 diamonds.
however STO has been plagued with this issue since it launched in 2010. guess what has been done about it.
Almost ever dungeon group today that I have done, I've seen just about every one rolling need on everything to put it on the auction house. It is so out of order when you are in a group an item drops for your class and some one takes it who cannot use it and blatantly announces that they are doing it for the auction house.
To top it off ignore does not stop you from getting grouped with these people again in the future.
Can we please have a improved loot system where only the class that can use such item can roll on it while in groups? This is becoming epidemic... Group dungeon I was just in great weapon fighter two handed weapon drops... rogue rolls needs and then when asked why, he casually reply's "Because I need AD".
I am playing a Cleric and have not been hurt by this yet due to lucky rolls, but its shocking to behold.
I have a personal Blacklist of people that try and be Loot *****s, and whenever I get tossed in grp with them I make sure to Shame them in group chat. you'd be surprised on how many times once they are labeled as a loot Ninja, they start rolling greed on everything from that point forward. Or they leave the grp entirely, and since I duo with a friend a lot their claim to shame has a witness
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malkavierMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
This problem was solved almost 20 years ago in the MUD days: Boss loot tables would drop one item anyone could loot (free for all), one item that was of rare quality that you had to roll on (usually a crafting material), and the armor/weapons/wands etc did a freaking class check against the person looking in the corpse, an item appropriate for that class got loaded from the database, and that was what they were able to loot, said item was normally BoP as well.
I love this game, but the looting system....really, when you can't even get to a basic level of a multi-user text game from almost 20 years ago....ugh.
How Cryptic trolls the entire NWO playerbase: 9200 GS listed for CN, implying anyone who needs more has no skill.
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
This problem was solved almost 20 years ago in the MUD days: Boss loot tables would drop one item anyone could loot (free for all), one item that was of rare quality that you had to roll on (usually a crafting material), and the armor/weapons/wands etc did a freaking class check against the person looking in the corpse, an item appropriate for that class got loaded from the database, and that was what they were able to loot, said item was normally BoP as well.
I love this game, but the looting system....really, when you can't even get to a basic level of a multi-user text game from almost 20 years ago....ugh.
dunno what muds you played but on toril bosses dropped the same loot everytime. it also didnt bind on characters when used (we can thank WoW for this mechanic)
Simple solution - only classes that can use an item can NEED it, but if they to it becomes bound to character. This way if you want to try and sell an item in the AH then you have to Greed it and everyone gets a fair chance.
I can't see any drawback of this system, which makes me astonished that Cryptic didn't implement it......
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rohk007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
Like others have said, the major issue here is that Dungeon loot isn't BoP.
Make Dungeon loot BoP. Having loot being able to be sold/traded from Dungeons lowers the appeal of the game imo. See a guy with armor that came from a hard Dungeon?...Probably just bought it. Learn from games before you Cryptic. I have no idea how loot works for end game Dungeons and what not, but if it's also tradable...that's a joke.
I really think Perfect World controls this. I think they do not want to make loot BOP since there will be a chance they can make money with people buying zen to get astral diamonds and buy the items on the Auction house. If they make items BOP they will lose this revenue. I agree that it should be BOP but I dont think it will change.
Comments
this.
Go grind out AD's or buy Zen to exchange for AD then hit up the ****ty AH.
All gear, even end game can be bought there.
and as I am an alt ***** I could conceivably use all items I loot.
The sad truth of the matter unfortunately is that one or more people always roll need for every drop they see,
this just has the effect of making everybody roll need and it stops people that truly deserve the upgrades from getting what they are doing the quest for.
Not only is it annoying as hell and very antisocial it ruins the spirit of the game and makes old men like me very bitter, I now have very little faith in
Humanity and think that every body out there are just greedy, self absorbed, whiney little ****es.
Please prove me wrong and play the game in the spirit it was intended and not as a pack of thieving bastiches.
I think the solution is not to ignore the problem but prevent it from occurring in the first place. Pricks will always be pricks but if you stop them from being one it might make them learn.
Failing a change in the loot roll system, it appears to me, that if someone or several someones need everything, you( generic you) are well within your rights to do the same. I'm not saying that you, or I, or Tom, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and Harry should start the group/dungeon that way. See how the first few rolls go and if a pattern emerges, follow that pattern for yourself. If you like, you can say to the group that as rolling need on everything does seem to be the pattern, you'll accommodate your preferences to those of the group and do the same. Alternatively, ask how others will be rolling and follow suit.
Lottie
INDEED!
Lottie
it's called being slack and learning NOTHING from other MMORPG's.
There's also a case to be made for alts. I'm always on the lookout for gear for my control wiz even when I'm playing as my cleric. I can say that I've never sold something on the auction house that I've won in a roll, but I often roll on stuff that isn't usable by the exact class I'm playing because I want to outfit a companion, an alt, or just a friend of mine.
I just do what I have always done, Pass on an item I cannot use with that character, Greed on utility items or items that appear useful to multiple classes, Need on items specifically for my class if necessary.
Here's a suggestion based on other's ideas, and my own experiences with MMO's over the years:
Have four options to choose from at the start of the quest. And have the group vote on which option they want, majority rules.
1) Need/Greed/Pass Exactly how it's implemented now
2) Need/Greed/Pass You would only get the Need option if it was for your class, otherwise you only see Greed/Pass
3) Random assignment Item get's randomly assigned to a player
4) Round Robin Loot just gets assigned to each player in turn. Starts with 1 player and then goes to the next in line after each item.
Each option has their own pros and cons. But each one has a valid place in the group for different reasons.
I know that seems like a lot of extra steps, but in my opinion it's the only way to please as many people as possible. As we all should know, you will never able to be able to please all the players of a MMO at once.
what happens if theres a rogue and a warrior running and theres 5 war drops and ZERO rogue? thats not fair at all. i think the most fair thing is to play by the rules the game establishes... i can't stand WoW guilds where theres 10 commandments for how to play your class, how to roll for loot, how to equip your class and what skills to take. worst group of people to play with, i'm not saying thats who you are OP, in fact you seem like a decent gamer. but i feel like so many other jerks ruin set guild runs or PUGs.
i remember playing swtor beta and did a 3 man run and kept rolling "Greed" (which the order is- 1. NEED 2. greed 3. pass) and assumed that if someone needed it they would roll need. so here i find out at the end how the 1 guy wasn't going to invite me back into any groups because i kept rolling "greed". WTF should i be rolling mr president? lol. i'm sick of the 'player' rules. and sometimes they end up not being fair if items only drop for 1 class over and over...
you don't need to worry about ninja's or missing out on drops. They're all on there waiting for your hard earned or well spent cash!
same.
Or reveal the reason behind this decision on why there is no class loot restriction which i dont think there is any at all.
If I see an item that is only for my class, I check if it is higher level than what I am currently wearing - if it is I roll need, otherwise I greed on it as well.
I know different people have different opinions on the need/greed system, a simple way to fix that - and other more serious things - would be the option to vote-kick players out of the instance. Right now, if the group is unhappy with the behaviour of an individual they can either suck it up and continue or the bulk of the group leaves and starts over, which can get frustrating pretty quick.
Make Dungeon loot BoP. Having loot being able to be sold/traded from Dungeons lowers the appeal of the game imo. See a guy with armor that came from a hard Dungeon?...Probably just bought it. Learn from games before you Cryptic. I have no idea how loot works for end game Dungeons and what not, but if it's also tradable...that's a joke.
because it's how Perfect World Entertainment roll.
Money hungry and little care to the longevity of a foreign IP.
No BoP loot, this game is dead within a month. Mark my words.
The only thing fanboys will be doing is foundry and even that gets tiresome and pointless.
blue level 26 weapons on the auction house are listed at 200,000 diamonds.
however STO has been plagued with this issue since it launched in 2010. guess what has been done about it.
I have a personal Blacklist of people that try and be Loot *****s, and whenever I get tossed in grp with them I make sure to Shame them in group chat. you'd be surprised on how many times once they are labeled as a loot Ninja, they start rolling greed on everything from that point forward. Or they leave the grp entirely, and since I duo with a friend a lot their claim to shame has a witness
I love this game, but the looting system....really, when you can't even get to a basic level of a multi-user text game from almost 20 years ago....ugh.
dunno what muds you played but on toril bosses dropped the same loot everytime. it also didnt bind on characters when used (we can thank WoW for this mechanic)
"A day without laughter is a day wasted" - Charlie Chaplin
I can't see any drawback of this system, which makes me astonished that Cryptic didn't implement it......
I really think Perfect World controls this. I think they do not want to make loot BOP since there will be a chance they can make money with people buying zen to get astral diamonds and buy the items on the Auction house. If they make items BOP they will lose this revenue. I agree that it should be BOP but I dont think it will change.