I don't really have a problem with the system as it's designed, it seems that you want to go a more arcane mastery aligned build if you want to focus on boss killing (which is how I've incidentally been speccing anyway - I don't really use chill).
I'm a CW. I soloed Jareth last night. Had to kite him, but that was fine. I still piled on plenty of damage.
Made the fight unique. And it felt like part of an epic story. Sometimes the arch-villains will be prepared and have counters to your usual tactics.
There are some bosses in the game where control effect will not work on them. At all.
Jareth was unable to be CC'd (crowd controlled) with 3 control wizards using the same TAB power...
We were going to use 5 control wizards and see what happens, but we were already told he is immune.
I ask that you guys reconsider. No knockbacks, quick holds, interrupts anything makes the control wizard kind of pointless during these fights.
Sure you have little adds, but they are peons , and hardly live long enough for the single target holds to really be effective.
A suggestion... Allow the control effects to work on these guys, even if it is only for a second. And knockback that only go a few feet. This will at least allow the control wizard to be more useful than well... a tower doing nothing but spamming default attacks : /
Thanks for at least reading
I understand their reasoning for making cc not work on bosses - understand, but not agree.
When you base half of a class's abilities and effectiveness around the whole idea of CC and then take that away in every boss fight, you are effectively giving that one specific class a 50% handicap versus a different class who just concentrates on tanking or healing or just dealing straight-forward damage.
Imagine if they said: OK for bosses, healers' heal-over-time spells will not work at all.
I understand their reasoning for making cc not work on bosses - understand, but not agree.
When you base half of a class's abilities and effectiveness around the whole idea of CC and then take that away in every boss fight, you are effectively giving that one specific class a 50% handicap versus a different class who just concentrates on tanking or healing or just dealing straight-forward damage.
Imagine if they said: OK for bosses, healers' heal-over-time spells will not work at all.
Technically in a group, you have no need for control on a boss because it's already not attacking you. So really all you're out is whatever damage bonuses you get from chill/controlled mobs. You don't have to spec towards that at all, if you don't want to.
I get that some people feel they shouldn't have to alter their playstyle to do the same damage on bosses, but really the alternative is the bosses become as much of a joke as the trash does.
Technically in a group, you have no need for control on a boss because it's already not attacking you.So really all you're out is whatever damage bonuses you get from chill/controlled mobs. You don't have to spec towards that at all, if you don't want to.
I get that some people feel they shouldn't have to alter their playstyle to do the same damage on bosses, but really the alternative is the bosses become as much of a joke as the trash does.
I have to respectfully disagree with the above bold statement, sorry.
Please let me explain. The role of the Controller is not to control mobs for your own enjoyment (ok well it is, but anyways) it is to protect the group. Always the group.
Now on a different note... there is something wrong with the agro in the game (totally different subject) that you don't really care too much about because you can control the mobs... but even with the "deagro" feat, After the 3rd or 4th attack, ole boy comes after me like a bull in a china shop with red strobe lights and neon signs.
Also, spells like Enfeeblement (my favorite) is a straight debuff... TABd out is a double debuff on the same target. Will not work on a big boss.
Which is why I ask for diminishing effect of some kind on the bosses... Making them challenging sure, but please look at alternatives for the control wizard's powers...
yea its annoying, i can understand why, but it'd be nice if they had alternative effects for bosses, for example one of the arcane passives, gives u a dmg buff on cold spells but this is useless on bosses as say ray of frost won't stack.
an alternative could be something like damage migitation (rationale: armor gets frozen in places and not as effective at blocking blows) this would make the cw feel useful while not being able to stun-lock bosses.
That is actually a really good idea.
I just switched to a TR and am no longer having these issues.
The Wizard was boring anyway, and after I noticed that my powers don't work on dugneon bosses and a lot of story bosses, I went with a TR.
Control Wizard at level 20 here! So far, everything has been CC-able, which is great. Then I got to my first "large boss" in the story line and... wow. What a disappointment!!! No ability to chill, no knockbacks/interrupts. Absolutely nothing.
Totally confused about how that'll effect end-game. I get that full CC on a boss would be overpowered, but I'd still like to have some effect. Maybe a debuff that removes their damage or interrupts? A stacking debuff that allows one CC every now and then a la GW2?
It's making me want to ditch the "control" part of the class and just focus on damage. :-/
Ah. I just finished a Skirmish. Seems like, there, it wasn't just a lack of Control, but also no damage with those spells on Malus Blackdagger. That would be a problem for multiple Control Wizards.
I am hearing more and more of this from other wizards.
Yep. Same issue I was having. The CW spells should do something to the bosses. Have them either supply their effects at reduced duration or buff up their damage vs bosses.
Also, spells like Enfeeblement (my favorite) is a straight debuff... TABd out is a double debuff on the same target. Will not work on a big boss.
It does work on bosses.
0
beardmanpigMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited April 2013
The only benefit chill wizards get(for damage) on bosses is that if chill does not apply and you're specced into thaumaturgy and grab the 20% bonus damage(with ice spells) on targets without Chill on the boss. That being said you still lose 7% damage. For those going Oppressor for even more cc then your damage will be nerfed. However i end up doing more damage by 200-300k in each dungeon I do at 40 despite only using majority of ice skills and sudden storm. It would be very nice and considerate if our chill effect was not completely negated in boss fights. Even on adds my frozen terrain cannot freeze targets before they leave or get knocked away.
This is going to become even more of an issue as additional controller classes are added.
I would have expected all classes' powers with CC effects to still apply their debuffs and associated DOT's, but the bosses would simply ignore the CC aspect.
In fact, in other games with CC-immune bosses, I've seen the damage component of these debuffs actually increased to compensate for the loss of CC, so certain classes did not need to respec to remain effective in certain fights.
I couldnt imagine it would be that hard to have the debuffs work without the cc. It is funny how the tanks heals and dps all work at 100% but the wiz gets a damage nerf.
Yeah but the adds are minions... an annoyance if nothing else... Maybe if they brought in more LTs it would be both challenging and fun.
In the Chartilifax/Green Dragon fight, the adds are not just minions. I ran this in a group with one of each class, and we were all within 1-2 levels of the quest. We tried a few times but ended up all dead two or three times and gave up. Every time the dragon spawned adds, it would include 2-3 hard bosses (or maybe they'd be considered lieutenants, but they are hard mobs). Every time, the whole team would break off the dragon immediately and address the adds, but there were just too many and we were constantly overwhelmed. We would just barely take out all the adds before another wave would hit. So not all boss adds are peons.
Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't work on any bosses? Like, at all? Doesn't that make it completely pointless? Very rarely do I meet a mob under boss level that I feel the need to debuff. I'm going to kill it in about 3-5 seconds anyway, why debuff? No, I save Ray of Enfeeblement for mobs that are harder, that take more than 3 hits to bring down. Like bosses. Now you say it has no effect on them? For starters, it would be nice to have some kind of text to indicate that there's no effect, so I don't keep spamming a useless power. Second, if it really doesn't work on bosses, why take it at all?
I am personally fine with some bosses being immune (or highly resistant) to mez effects, but I agree that there should be some diminished form of other compensation. So you can't hold him, but maybe you can slow him down? Maybe only part of the debuff from Ray of Enfeeblement could apply to some bosses. There are a number of things that could be done to make up for the fact that there are fights where CC has apparently been made useless.
Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't work on any bosses? Like, at all? Doesn't that make it completely pointless? Very rarely do I meet a mob under boss level that I feel the need to debuff. I'm going to kill it in about 3-5 seconds anyway, why debuff? No, I save Ray of Enfeeblement for mobs that are harder, that take more than 3 hits to bring down. Like bosses. Now you say it has no effect on them? For starters, it would be nice to have some kind of text to indicate that there's no effect, so I don't keep spamming a useless power. Second, if it really doesn't work on bosses, why take it at all?
Ah. I just finished a Skirmish. Seems like, there, it wasn't just a lack of Control, but also no damage with those spells on Malus Blackdagger. That would be a problem for multiple Control Wizards.
I've noticed that several times too, some bosses wouldn't be controlled, but the spells would still do the damage, other bosses i would do a thing to, but still aggro them like mad.
The nice thing with many story bosses is if they can't be controlled, they usually won't have the tougher adds, so you don't get overwhelmed as easy. I really hate it when non-boss mobs can't be controlled, that annoys me to no end. :P
I'm curious what it will be like if or when War Wizards make it in, which seem to be a more dps focused wizard.
I've noticed that several times too, some bosses wouldn't be controlled, but the spells would still do the damage, other bosses i would do a thing to, but still aggro them like mad.
The nice thing with many story bosses is if they can't be controlled, they usually won't have the tougher adds, so you don't get overwhelmed as easy. I really hate it when non-boss mobs can't be controlled, that annoys me to no end. :P
I'm curious what it will be like if or when War Wizards make it in, which seem to be a more dps focused wizard.
Comments
This. CW has DPS spells too. Just use them?
Considering most boss fights are more about fighting and controlling the adds, I don't think it's unreasonable at all.
Made the fight unique. And it felt like part of an epic story. Sometimes the arch-villains will be prepared and have counters to your usual tactics.
When you want to break the mold
BETA Tips and Tricks
Never saw Pants in beta?
I understand their reasoning for making cc not work on bosses - understand, but not agree.
When you base half of a class's abilities and effectiveness around the whole idea of CC and then take that away in every boss fight, you are effectively giving that one specific class a 50% handicap versus a different class who just concentrates on tanking or healing or just dealing straight-forward damage.
Imagine if they said: OK for bosses, healers' heal-over-time spells will not work at all.
Technically in a group, you have no need for control on a boss because it's already not attacking you. So really all you're out is whatever damage bonuses you get from chill/controlled mobs. You don't have to spec towards that at all, if you don't want to.
I get that some people feel they shouldn't have to alter their playstyle to do the same damage on bosses, but really the alternative is the bosses become as much of a joke as the trash does.
I have to respectfully disagree with the above bold statement, sorry.
Please let me explain. The role of the Controller is not to control mobs for your own enjoyment (ok well it is, but anyways) it is to protect the group. Always the group.
Now on a different note... there is something wrong with the agro in the game (totally different subject) that you don't really care too much about because you can control the mobs... but even with the "deagro" feat, After the 3rd or 4th attack, ole boy comes after me like a bull in a china shop with red strobe lights and neon signs.
Also, spells like Enfeeblement (my favorite) is a straight debuff... TABd out is a double debuff on the same target. Will not work on a big boss.
Which is why I ask for diminishing effect of some kind on the bosses... Making them challenging sure, but please look at alternatives for the control wizard's powers...
Thanks
When you want to break the mold
BETA Tips and Tricks
Never saw Pants in beta?
That is actually a really good idea.
I just switched to a TR and am no longer having these issues.
The Wizard was boring anyway, and after I noticed that my powers don't work on dugneon bosses and a lot of story bosses, I went with a TR.
LOL??!?!?!
Learn to kite?
When you want to break the mold
BETA Tips and Tricks
Never saw Pants in beta?
Yep. Same issue I was having. The CW spells should do something to the bosses. Have them either supply their effects at reduced duration or buff up their damage vs bosses.
It does work on bosses.
I did not notice it working on the big bosses that CC does not affect.. I will try to verify this.
When you want to break the mold
BETA Tips and Tricks
Never saw Pants in beta?
When you want to break the mold
BETA Tips and Tricks
Never saw Pants in beta?
I would have expected all classes' powers with CC effects to still apply their debuffs and associated DOT's, but the bosses would simply ignore the CC aspect.
In fact, in other games with CC-immune bosses, I've seen the damage component of these debuffs actually increased to compensate for the loss of CC, so certain classes did not need to respec to remain effective in certain fights.
When you want to break the mold
BETA Tips and Tricks
Never saw Pants in beta?
When you want to break the mold
BETA Tips and Tricks
Never saw Pants in beta?
In the Chartilifax/Green Dragon fight, the adds are not just minions. I ran this in a group with one of each class, and we were all within 1-2 levels of the quest. We tried a few times but ended up all dead two or three times and gave up. Every time the dragon spawned adds, it would include 2-3 hard bosses (or maybe they'd be considered lieutenants, but they are hard mobs). Every time, the whole team would break off the dragon immediately and address the adds, but there were just too many and we were constantly overwhelmed. We would just barely take out all the adds before another wave would hit. So not all boss adds are peons.
Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't work on any bosses? Like, at all? Doesn't that make it completely pointless? Very rarely do I meet a mob under boss level that I feel the need to debuff. I'm going to kill it in about 3-5 seconds anyway, why debuff? No, I save Ray of Enfeeblement for mobs that are harder, that take more than 3 hits to bring down. Like bosses. Now you say it has no effect on them? For starters, it would be nice to have some kind of text to indicate that there's no effect, so I don't keep spamming a useless power. Second, if it really doesn't work on bosses, why take it at all?
I am personally fine with some bosses being immune (or highly resistant) to mez effects, but I agree that there should be some diminished form of other compensation. So you can't hold him, but maybe you can slow him down? Maybe only part of the debuff from Ray of Enfeeblement could apply to some bosses. There are a number of things that could be done to make up for the fact that there are fights where CC has apparently been made useless.
Uhm...
O.o
I've noticed that several times too, some bosses wouldn't be controlled, but the spells would still do the damage, other bosses i would do a thing to, but still aggro them like mad.
The nice thing with many story bosses is if they can't be controlled, they usually won't have the tougher adds, so you don't get overwhelmed as easy. I really hate it when non-boss mobs can't be controlled, that annoys me to no end. :P
I'm curious what it will be like if or when War Wizards make it in, which seem to be a more dps focused wizard.
Not a big deal solo, get a tank pet.