[Wizard] Control Effects not Effective on Everyone

streethawke

There are some bosses in the game where control effect will not work on them. At all.

Jareth was unable to be CC'd (crowd controlled) with 3 control wizards using the same TAB power...

We were going to use 5 control wizards and see what happens, but we were already told he is immune.


I ask that you guys reconsider. No knockbacks, quick holds, interrupts anything makes the control wizard kind of pointless during these fights.

Sure you have little adds, but they are peons , and hardly live long enough for the single target holds to really be effective.



A suggestion... Allow the control effects to work on these guys, even if it is only for a second. And knockback that only go a few feet. This will at least allow the control wizard to be more useful than well... a tower doing nothing but spamming default attacks : /


Thanks for at least reading

nec0e

yea its annoying, i can understand why, but it'd be nice if they had alternative effects for bosses, for example one of the arcane passives, gives u a dmg buff on cold spells but this is useless on bosses as say ray of frost won't stack.

an alternative could be something like damage migitation (rationale: armor gets frozen in places and not as effective at blocking blows) this would make the cw feel useful while not being able to stun-lock bosses.

backbite44

Would be nice if they let you set up multiple templates for your encounter powers for easy changeout for bosses. Switch from control to damage/debuff in those situations. Was a thread after one of the beta weekends suggesting this. Was a very good idea, especially since they really take away our bread n butter in those situations. I guess after a while when content is a little more familiar this won't be as big an issue, would still be a great geature for all classes imho though.

Don't really think the number of CWs trying to control a mob matters for bosses.

xantris

Would be too easy to cheese your way through boss fights with a couple control wizards if they weren't immune.

kelthien

Control Wizard at level 20 here! So far, everything has been CC-able, which is great. Then I got to my first "large boss" in the story line and... wow. What a disappointment!!! No ability to chill, no knockbacks/interrupts. Absolutely nothing.

Totally confused about how that'll effect end-game. I get that full CC on a boss would be overpowered, but I'd still like to have some effect. Maybe a debuff that removes their damage or interrupts? A stacking debuff that allows one CC every now and then a la GW2?

It's making me want to ditch the "control" part of the class and just focus on damage. :-/

adozu

that's less than 1% of all the enemies you'll ever fight and the higher level boss fights danger comes more form the mionions than from the boss itself anyway. i don't think big bosses should be affected or a team of 5 wizards could eventually just perma-lock down everything in the game.

kelthien

adozu wrote: »

that's less than 1% of all the enemies you'll ever fight and the higher level boss fights danger comes more form the mionions than from the boss itself anyway. i don't think big bosses should be affected or a team of 5 wizards could eventually just perma-lock down everything in the game.

Oh that's great to know! My concern was that I'd run in to more and more minionless-bosses who were immune to CC.

I still think there should be a way for the class to meaningfully contribute in those cases, though I haven't gotten some of my end-game powers. Perhaps all the self-buffs will let us maintain some of our usefulness on those encounters.

My big worry isn't necessarily complete uselessness, but rather that there would be a severe gameplay/Feat change from one boss to the next if one could be CC'd and the next couldn't.

horrorscope666

xantris wrote: »

Would be too easy to cheese your way through boss fights with a couple control wizards if they weren't immune.

Then I guess all non-boss encounters with CW's controlling is now considered Cheese to. Some games do alt affects, reduced affects and some have the same affect but it doesn't land every time. They just decided it doesn't work on a boss I reckon. Why does all other classes skills get to work as just another punching bag in front of you?

adozu

because controlling a single target is so much easier than a whole encounter? the boss would literally never ever move with so many as 2 wizards rotating their 4 control powers skillfully. you can still contribute significantly during said fights by using debuffs like ray of enfebleement instaed.

streethawke

Now I never said full control effects on the bosses.. I said reduced effects. Also alternate effects affecting them would be useful to bring along a control wizard (see what I did there heh).

Please continue with your thoughts.

kelthien

streethawke wrote: »

Now I never said full control effects on the bosses.. I said reduced effects. Also alternate effects affecting them would be useful to bring along a control wizard (see what I did there heh).

Please continue with your thoughts.

I like that idea. If I can't freeze a boss, at least let me slow or diminish his attacks. If I can't stun, I'd still like to interrupt or 'distract' here and there.

Anyone gotten high enough to get some of the debuff skills? do those still work on bosses or are we purely for minion management and dps?

beardmanpig

I would very much like to be able to Chill bosses simply for the damage bonus i get. atm i am losing 6*3= 18% + 9%= 27% damage on bosses because they cannot be chilled at all.

edurna1

beardmanpig wrote: »

I would very much like to be able to Chill bosses simply for the damage bonus i get. atm i am losing 6*3= 18% + 9%= 27% damage on bosses because they cannot be chilled at all.

This is my big concern as well. :-/ I have invested so many points in Chill damage bonuses, only to find out that Chill does not apply to all bosses

beardmanpig

Yeah typically i can keep up with other dpsers, but when i fall behind I know its the fact that my 27% damage boost is not being applied.

streethawke

I mean, I look at what I can do in battle with these boss fights. Completely set up for Control... Then I dont get my chill bonuses for DPS.

Only 3 roles are viable against these fights. Tank, Healer, DPS. That leaves out the wizard. Sure the wizard does do some decent damage, but it is like tying 2 hands behind his back in a fight.

Just looking for some kind of control thing to help affirm their role.

ruinedmirage

Haha! It's almost like they made it similar to that one game...... what was it? Oh yeah, Dungeons & Dragons, where some monsters are immune to those attacks.
............
............
No, no, I must just be imagining things...

haelra

In all the serious D&D campaigns and NWN modules I've played, one of the first things we do is strip all the total immunities off everything. I approve of strongly resistant or diminished effect as a substitute. Granted, it can be hard to balance, but imo, it's well worthwhile.

stwhm

CC on a boss is a terrible idea. Change chill to be a buff that 10 stacks or w/e freezes or releases a burst of cold dmg. Make the lift a debuff that increases the dmg of non cold abilities by a %.

nec0e

yea, i don't really care WHAT we get, as long as we get SOMETHING to replace all our cc with useful effects (debuffs, increased dmg, etc.)

edurna1

I dont want to cc the boss, I just want the debuff to be there so I gain benefit from my chill damage modifiers. I could care less about actually slowing/freezing the boss.

kelthien

edurna1 wrote: »

I dont want to cc the boss, I just want the debuff to be there so I gain benefit from my chill damage modifiers. I could care less about actually slowing/freezing the boss.

Wow I hadn't thought about that! having the Chill debuff instantly removed severely limits all our chill-based damage buffs... which are plentiful!

I'll have to re-think some of my character planning to accommodate. :-/

edurna1

Thankfully there seem to always be adds on boss fights. I usually play cleric-defense, where the chill debuff works great.

dtrain69

IMO if they mob cannot be controlled the Control Wizard should get a damage buff.

streethawke

Just fought Shoth... She cannot be controlled or debuffed. Not very fun to solo her. Doable.. but not fun... I felt if I were a cleric or a Rogue, I could at least fit in a role I was made for.


Any other thoughts on this?

streethawke

Thanks all. I appreciate your suggestions and feedback on this.

soanvalcke

All the boss fights include smaller adds which need to be killed. Why does the boss need to be debuffed again?

kelthien

soanvalcke wrote: »

All the boss fights include smaller adds which need to be killed. Why does the boss need to be debuffed again?

So far, the bosses I've done, the adds are pretty easy. No one's thanked me for choking one add out of 5, and most folks seem to have enough AoE to DPS down the adds without my help. Mostly I've gotten yelled at for controlling because any control means i'm preventing a mob from bunching up with it's buddies for convenient AoE. :-/

bismar7

I said much of the same back after Beta Weekend 2... and 3... and 4.


I've been playing mmo casters for over 10 years... My suggestion is to just not play the CW; Devoted cleric has better damage, better control spells, and heals other people.

Its obvious after their last "fix" that they don't care. What I decided after BW4 was to just go with the DC who can CC 10 targets and two shot all 10. Then play Scourge WL or A. Ranger when they come out.

steppenkat

It's intended. Those bosses wouldn't be challenging if you could hard-CC them.

I see no issue on this, just CC the adds and focus your DPS on the boss, he'll drop dead sooner or later.

Also, that's the disadvantage of Chill-based builds: they are better against average mobs and PvP but suck against boss-fights. If you focus your talents in extra damage, cooldown reduction and AoE damage (my setup), you'll perform better in PvE.

streethawke

Interesting. So some think Control Wizards should just suck it up that they lose their damage bonus and control effects and debuffs against a boss.

What other class does this happen to?

psiwuff

I think being a CW, your job mostly is twofold.
a) DPS like crazy on the boss
b) control adds/trash to keep them off people/make the job easier for the rest of the team
So personally I plan on rolling with a mixed bag of skills for dungeons. Some CC to control adds, and a nice load of damage to hurt the boss.

I agree though that there should be a way to CC the boss, briefly at least, or that all skills should have some effect. That single-target choke for instance just dispels rather than applying its DoT, making it entirely useless.