l1zardo1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
As many have stated, WoW's sub number is inflated by 100% via CN subs. That is not including multi-boxers either (so the number of actual players is quite a bit lower than 50% lol)
This reminds me of the Enclave chat last beta weekend that made by eyeballs bleed.
Blizzard is all about squeezing every last drop of blood and cash from WoW. They have catered to the lowest common denominator for many years now, and unfortunately that 'bar' lowers every single day in the US.
They pulled all their good devs off that project a long time ago, and left a skeleton crew of their dregs.
F2P is their next launch mode, and the future of WoW once their expac is older. If anyone here has had much xp with F2P, they would know that it generate far more revenue than a sub. (if it is modeled correctly, IE not GW2 lol)
I see the reason why the player base would want a sub, as it limits the trolls and idiots in zone chat, and all but kills currency spam. It also allows you to get everything in the game and never pay more than $15/mo, which is never the case in F2P.
The hype they have about this model here ... is just hype. Sure YOU CAN FARM ANYTHING, or you can skip 100 hours of farming and pay $40. I personally would never 'work' for 40 cents an hour, so unless you enjoy farming <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, it's not really free. Just an illusion for stupid people.
The market will be completely saturated with AD at launch, due to founders packs. 400:1 ratio will be what people can initially use Zen to purchase AD. SO $40 = 1.6M AD
1.6M AD / 24k = 66.66d
66.66d x Average hours/day required to hit cap (this is unknown, as it relies on L60 content) - the current estimate is 3 hours of PvP.
= 200hrs
So my example was actually off by 100%. The AD market will stabilize around 200:1 AD once the saturation is gone, then it will be accurate.
I don't understand why people feel obligated to buy everything that is available for purchase. There is no "content" to purchase here. What you are referring to are perhaps prettier pixels that perform the same function as items already attainable in the game, for free. Pretty costs money, or time, or both. If you don't want to be pretty, you don't have to be. You also don't have to have all the pretty items at game's launch, or ever. OCD much?
I feel so sorry for you kids. You've not known what fair and balanced play is. Paying money to get more XP, better chances at loot, et. al. should be looked at with derision by people in a game. Obviously I am getting old fashioned.
OCD has nothing to do with it. Truly, OCD people wouldnt be playing a game anyways.
It's as simple as this: The content is free. No charging for dungeons or additional content.
The only thing you should, in theory, pay to access is additional cosmetics and some convenience items. You can get away with not paying for a single thing in Neverwinter or other true free to play games. You won't have all the cosmetics but that's where the money comes in.
You don't need cosmetics to enjoy a game. It can certainly enhance a game but you do not need them.
The only difference between a free to play game and a freemium game (premium game with a free option) is that in a free to play game content is free while freemium (and all games will be freemium or free to play in the near future) still charges you for content (subscription option).
So, *shrugs* as long as a game company doesn't cross from free to play to pay to play there's really no validity in arguing the subscription model is worth anything.
The "Log Out" button is your friend. Do the rest of us a favor and use it, since you absolutely do not want to be here. Checking the technology of the site, I have verified that you are, indeed, not being held prisoner here as you clearly try to implicate. LOL.
I have a recommendation for you . . . SW:TOR . . . that's more your style and what you want in a game.
Do you work for cryptic, you seem to be one of the most aggregious apologists for this game. *chuckles* anyways....
Content is free....for now. it's a F2P game, they can start charging for anything they want, they dont have any kind of agreement with you not to.
You admit, and unfortunately without even knowing it I am afraid, that they put blocks and barriers to make you spend money with them. I can already see how the "pretty cosmetics" are going to work. I played to lvl 36 in one weekend and my guy, and his companion barely changed looks at all, the same washed out brown look.
Content is free, if you can spend 100 hours doing what it takes those who spend money with us only use 10 hours to do. You put this forth like some holy grail of "It's all free", it's double speak and frankly sickening to see someone try to defend it so adamantly. All the leechers do is make the game look fuller for you, and I wager alot of them are like my little ones playing F2P games, kids.
Faze...funny you should mention that.. I paid for the Collectors Edition, got my little statue and paid for a year sub upfront. Only played for 6 months and dont have a single hurt feeling about it.
NWN will never ever get any money from me. <<stress the period. But unfortunately for you(Mr Paying Customer)....Cryptic is a prostitute and really wants me to spend some money with them, so they will allow me to be here as long as I dont break their rules and you'll just have to put up with it. Now if this was a sub based game, then they would only allow paying customers to post and you wouldnt have to see me. Too bad for you. Enjoy your F2P model.
Content is free....for now. it's a F2P game, they can start charging for anything they want, they dont have any kind of agreement with you not to.
I can already see how the "pretty cosmetics" are going to work. I played to lvl 36 in one weekend and my guy, and his companion barely changed looks at all, the same washed out brown look.
Content is free, if you can spend 100 hours doing what it takes those who spend money with us only use 10 hours to do.
You are being a stick in the mud, yes.
It's alright for you to dislike the F2P model. You don't have to participate in what you perceive as gimmicks. Cryptic isn't trying to hide anything from us. They are very upfront about what costs real money and what you can get in game for free. This is a business, not a charity. If everyone felt swindled out of their money, this model wouldn't exist.
And you said at least twice yourself that content was free, so why you are complaining about the option to spend money is just beyond me.
There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
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omnlnkMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's alright for you to dislike the F2P model. You don't have to participate in what you perceive as gimmicks. Cryptic isn't trying to hide anything from us. They are very upfront about what costs real money and what you can get in game for free. This is a business, not a charity. If everyone felt swindled out of their money, this model wouldn't exist.
And you said at least twice yourself that content was free, so why you are complaining about the option to spend money is just beyond me.
So what, exactly, did you mean by the term "leecher", if your plan is to never spend any money?
Someone who never spends money on the game. And while not me directly, you will have to deal with alot more trashy people than me, who will be alot more beligerant and obnoxious and vulgar and will be trolls, as well.....F2P tends to have a lot more hackers and farmers in my experience.
So you wonder why I am still around...I am waiting on the Foundry, but if it isnt any good to developel, I'll fade away, just as I did a year ago when I first found out it was F2P.
"World of Warcraft" didn't invent anything. Not the MMO genre or the Cash Shop. EverQuest was successful years before WoW launched. Not that it was the first MMO either, but it is an example of a successful MMORPG that existed years before Blizzard launched WoW.
Here is a prime example of a person reading just one post and going off on a tangent, rather than reading the whole conversation. . .
They really shouldnt be for anybody, but I am ok with people being idiots, that's why we have payday loans, and rent to own places.
I feel so sorry for you kids. You've not known what fair and balanced play is. Paying money to get more XP, better chances at loot, et. al. should be looked at with derision by people in a game. Obviously I am getting old fashioned.
OCD has nothing to do with it. Truly, OCD people wouldnt be playing a game anyways.
Do you work for cryptic, you seem to be one of the most aggregious apologists for this game. *chuckles* anyways....
Content is free....for now. it's a F2P game, they can start charging for anything they want, they dont have any kind of agreement with you not to.
You admit, and unfortunately without even knowing it I am afraid, that they put blocks and barriers to make you spend money with them. I can already see how the "pretty cosmetics" are going to work. I played to lvl 36 in one weekend and my guy, and his companion barely changed looks at all, the same washed out brown look.
Content is free, if you can spend 100 hours doing what it takes those who spend money with us only use 10 hours to do. You put this forth like some holy grail of "It's all free", it's double speak and frankly sickening to see someone try to defend it so adamantly. All the leechers do is make the game look fuller for you, and I wager alot of them are like my little ones playing F2P games, kids.
Faze...funny you should mention that.. I paid for the Collectors Edition, got my little statue and paid for a year sub upfront. Only played for 6 months and dont have a single hurt feeling about it.
NWN will never ever get any money from me. <<stress the period. But unfortunately for you(Mr Paying Customer)....Cryptic is a prostitute and really wants me to spend some money with them, so they will allow me to be here as long as I dont break their rules and you'll just have to put up with it. Now if this was a sub based game, then they would only allow paying customers to post and you wouldnt have to see me. Too bad for you. Enjoy your F2P model.
So you say I proved some point that the game is "forcing" you to buy stuff because you do not like the color brown . . . which is, oddly enough, one of the most common colors in a fantasy genre game. Believe it or not this is not an Anime. Not everything has to be bright and full of pastels.
But colors are not my point. Choices are, and I still stand by my observation (which is based on fact) that you have lots of choices in the game and no one is forcing anyone to do anything. So, yes, I WILL enjoy "my" F2P model (Cryptic's actually, but since I appear to be given ownership by you then . . . ~shrug), because I have . . . . choices.
And you still have choices too. You aren't being "forced" just because you have a personal affront to the color brown (for the love of the gods and goddesses do NOT go to a Renaissance Festival, please). Your choices are:
1 - Enjoy the game without paying a dime (you are already doing so or you wouldn't be still lurking these forums like this)
2 - Buy something to adjust your look and enjoy the game even more.
3 - Log out and enjoy something else, since a LOT of games out there are also free.
I enjoy these choices, and as you reinforced in your arguments, you are enjoying these choices also. Please do not pretend that you are not. See you in game . . . because you'll be there. Otherwise you would have "faded away" long ago. You are not here because you are offended. You are here for attention, and I am humoring you because I have nothing to do at the moment while waiting for a 4 gig patch That and I am the nicest guy anyone has ever met on these forums.
Content is free....for now. it's a F2P game, they can start charging for anything they want, they dont have any kind of agreement with you not to.
Content is free, if you can spend 100 hours doing what it takes those who spend money with us only use 10 hours to do.
Cryptic never charges for content. I was excited to log into STO for free and see that 3 years worth of expansions and updates were all available to me, entirely for free.
F2P players leveled entirely to level cap in Neverwinter in 3 days during the last beta weekend. I don't think there's going to be any sort of insane forced grind for F2P players.
Cryptic likes F2P players... and so do paying players, believe it or not. Most people end up spending money on the game at one point or another, there are very few 100% "leechers" (obviously, or else the model wouldn't work), and besides that, there's nothing worse than a dead MMO with no players.
Someone who never spends money on the game. And while not me directly, you will have to deal with alot more trashy people than me, who will be alot more beligerant and obnoxious and vulgar and will be trolls, as well.....F2P tends to have a lot more hackers and farmers in my experience..
Those are often repeated claims that at first glance appear logical, but are not actually true. WoW is a subscription-based MMO, and it features just about the worst, most immature community I have ever seen in a MMO (in over twenty years). Day after day, the trade channel is full of testosterone-soaked nonsense (for years, I saw "ANAL" flooding the chat) and sexism, battlegrounds are filled with bots and verbally extremely abusive individuals, gold farmers control the material supply in the AH, bots dominate other aspects of the AH, players in dungeons call each other the worst names for simple mistakes or for none, and so on. I have never seen even half of those behaviors in free-to-play MMOs.
You see, social issues like these have little to do with the business model, but with the willingness, or the lack of it, to do something about them. Blizzard gave up on this after the first year when they stopped policing names. Then social maintenance dropped further and as a result the WoW community is now the way it is. The game costing more than most MMOs did not prevent this. Perhaps it fostered it, because paying a subscription fee fuels the overblown sense of entitlement that is so predominant in today's society.
Wait, so you're saying Neverwinter should cost money to buy the game and then be free forever? Instead of being free, free and totally free?
Hrmm...
No he is saying follow B2P models where you pay for new content updates like TSW and GW2 instead of being F2P and relying heavily on in game shop and founders, guardian packs etc.
No he is saying follow B2P models where you pay for new content updates like TSW and GW2 instead of being F2P and relying heavily on in game shop and founders, guardian packs etc.
It is a model that doesn't seem to work well for MMOs, though, and they all have cash shops anyway, so you pay for the game, for every expansion, and also for the cash shop items. F2P, without being pay-to-win, seems to be a more successful model, and in my opinion also a more honest one. You only pay for exactly what you want, and new content is always free (here anyway).
Another advantage of F2P is that games are not seen as "old" as quickly as is the case with B2P titles, and the potential audience is much wider. I have several co-workers and friends who would never buy NW if it cost 50-60 bucks upfront, but who will happily try it out when the open beta launches. A couple of them might even stick around and then spend money. B2P is safer (because your customers have no way of getting a refund), F2P requires more courage.
As someone who doesn't mind paying for convenience or vanity stuff, like the founder packs, I prefer F2P because it makes it more likely that a MMO remains populated, and people (even those who may never buy anything) are "content" in this genre. The only real downside is the sometimes bad reputation that is linked to the F2P term. I think it's partly a result of decades of society having been told (and brainwashed to believe) that you always only get what you pay for and that nothing good is ever free, so anything that is "free" is frequently seen as "must suck" and thus inferior (people are also extremely distrustful when you do something nice for them and refuse to believe that there is no hook -- it's funny to watch).
I hope, and am confident, that Neverwinter will succeed, and hopefully it will also reach people who are hesitant to try out a F2P game. It may well help to change their views.
Comments
This reminds me of the Enclave chat last beta weekend that made by eyeballs bleed.
Blizzard is all about squeezing every last drop of blood and cash from WoW. They have catered to the lowest common denominator for many years now, and unfortunately that 'bar' lowers every single day in the US.
They pulled all their good devs off that project a long time ago, and left a skeleton crew of their dregs.
F2P is their next launch mode, and the future of WoW once their expac is older. If anyone here has had much xp with F2P, they would know that it generate far more revenue than a sub. (if it is modeled correctly, IE not GW2 lol)
I see the reason why the player base would want a sub, as it limits the trolls and idiots in zone chat, and all but kills currency spam. It also allows you to get everything in the game and never pay more than $15/mo, which is never the case in F2P.
The hype they have about this model here ... is just hype. Sure YOU CAN FARM ANYTHING, or you can skip 100 hours of farming and pay $40. I personally would never 'work' for 40 cents an hour, so unless you enjoy farming <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, it's not really free. Just an illusion for stupid people.
The market will be completely saturated with AD at launch, due to founders packs. 400:1 ratio will be what people can initially use Zen to purchase AD. SO $40 = 1.6M AD
1.6M AD / 24k = 66.66d
66.66d x Average hours/day required to hit cap (this is unknown, as it relies on L60 content) - the current estimate is 3 hours of PvP.
= 200hrs
So my example was actually off by 100%. The AD market will stabilize around 200:1 AD once the saturation is gone, then it will be accurate.
I feel so sorry for you kids. You've not known what fair and balanced play is. Paying money to get more XP, better chances at loot, et. al. should be looked at with derision by people in a game. Obviously I am getting old fashioned.
OCD has nothing to do with it. Truly, OCD people wouldnt be playing a game anyways.
Do you work for cryptic, you seem to be one of the most aggregious apologists for this game. *chuckles* anyways....
Content is free....for now. it's a F2P game, they can start charging for anything they want, they dont have any kind of agreement with you not to.
You admit, and unfortunately without even knowing it I am afraid, that they put blocks and barriers to make you spend money with them. I can already see how the "pretty cosmetics" are going to work. I played to lvl 36 in one weekend and my guy, and his companion barely changed looks at all, the same washed out brown look.
Content is free, if you can spend 100 hours doing what it takes those who spend money with us only use 10 hours to do. You put this forth like some holy grail of "It's all free", it's double speak and frankly sickening to see someone try to defend it so adamantly. All the leechers do is make the game look fuller for you, and I wager alot of them are like my little ones playing F2P games, kids.
Faze...funny you should mention that.. I paid for the Collectors Edition, got my little statue and paid for a year sub upfront. Only played for 6 months and dont have a single hurt feeling about it.
NWN will never ever get any money from me. <<stress the period. But unfortunately for you(Mr Paying Customer)....Cryptic is a prostitute and really wants me to spend some money with them, so they will allow me to be here as long as I dont break their rules and you'll just have to put up with it. Now if this was a sub based game, then they would only allow paying customers to post and you wouldnt have to see me. Too bad for you. Enjoy your F2P model.
It's alright for you to dislike the F2P model. You don't have to participate in what you perceive as gimmicks. Cryptic isn't trying to hide anything from us. They are very upfront about what costs real money and what you can get in game for free. This is a business, not a charity. If everyone felt swindled out of their money, this model wouldn't exist.
And you said at least twice yourself that content was free, so why you are complaining about the option to spend money is just beyond me.
^Agreed so much right here.
And then later...
So what, exactly, did you mean by the term "leecher", if your plan is to never spend any money?
So you wonder why I am still around...I am waiting on the Foundry, but if it isnt any good to developel, I'll fade away, just as I did a year ago when I first found out it was F2P.
Here is a prime example of a person reading just one post and going off on a tangent, rather than reading the whole conversation. . .
So you say I proved some point that the game is "forcing" you to buy stuff because you do not like the color brown . . . which is, oddly enough, one of the most common colors in a fantasy genre game. Believe it or not this is not an Anime. Not everything has to be bright and full of pastels.
But colors are not my point. Choices are, and I still stand by my observation (which is based on fact) that you have lots of choices in the game and no one is forcing anyone to do anything. So, yes, I WILL enjoy "my" F2P model (Cryptic's actually, but since I appear to be given ownership by you then . . . ~shrug), because I have . . . . choices.
And you still have choices too. You aren't being "forced" just because you have a personal affront to the color brown (for the love of the gods and goddesses do NOT go to a Renaissance Festival, please). Your choices are:
1 - Enjoy the game without paying a dime (you are already doing so or you wouldn't be still lurking these forums like this)
2 - Buy something to adjust your look and enjoy the game even more.
3 - Log out and enjoy something else, since a LOT of games out there are also free.
I enjoy these choices, and as you reinforced in your arguments, you are enjoying these choices also. Please do not pretend that you are not.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And then I stopped reading, because your opinion will never be relevant.
Cryptic never charges for content. I was excited to log into STO for free and see that 3 years worth of expansions and updates were all available to me, entirely for free.
F2P players leveled entirely to level cap in Neverwinter in 3 days during the last beta weekend. I don't think there's going to be any sort of insane forced grind for F2P players.
Cryptic likes F2P players... and so do paying players, believe it or not. Most people end up spending money on the game at one point or another, there are very few 100% "leechers" (obviously, or else the model wouldn't work), and besides that, there's nothing worse than a dead MMO with no players.
Those are often repeated claims that at first glance appear logical, but are not actually true. WoW is a subscription-based MMO, and it features just about the worst, most immature community I have ever seen in a MMO (in over twenty years). Day after day, the trade channel is full of testosterone-soaked nonsense (for years, I saw "ANAL" flooding the chat) and sexism, battlegrounds are filled with bots and verbally extremely abusive individuals, gold farmers control the material supply in the AH, bots dominate other aspects of the AH, players in dungeons call each other the worst names for simple mistakes or for none, and so on. I have never seen even half of those behaviors in free-to-play MMOs.
You see, social issues like these have little to do with the business model, but with the willingness, or the lack of it, to do something about them. Blizzard gave up on this after the first year when they stopped policing names. Then social maintenance dropped further and as a result the WoW community is now the way it is. The game costing more than most MMOs did not prevent this. Perhaps it fostered it, because paying a subscription fee fuels the overblown sense of entitlement that is so predominant in today's society.
No he is saying follow B2P models where you pay for new content updates like TSW and GW2 instead of being F2P and relying heavily on in game shop and founders, guardian packs etc.
It is a model that doesn't seem to work well for MMOs, though, and they all have cash shops anyway, so you pay for the game, for every expansion, and also for the cash shop items. F2P, without being pay-to-win, seems to be a more successful model, and in my opinion also a more honest one. You only pay for exactly what you want, and new content is always free (here anyway).
Another advantage of F2P is that games are not seen as "old" as quickly as is the case with B2P titles, and the potential audience is much wider. I have several co-workers and friends who would never buy NW if it cost 50-60 bucks upfront, but who will happily try it out when the open beta launches. A couple of them might even stick around and then spend money. B2P is safer (because your customers have no way of getting a refund), F2P requires more courage.
As someone who doesn't mind paying for convenience or vanity stuff, like the founder packs, I prefer F2P because it makes it more likely that a MMO remains populated, and people (even those who may never buy anything) are "content" in this genre. The only real downside is the sometimes bad reputation that is linked to the F2P term. I think it's partly a result of decades of society having been told (and brainwashed to believe) that you always only get what you pay for and that nothing good is ever free, so anything that is "free" is frequently seen as "must suck" and thus inferior (people are also extremely distrustful when you do something nice for them and refuse to believe that there is no hook -- it's funny to watch).
I hope, and am confident, that Neverwinter will succeed, and hopefully it will also reach people who are hesitant to try out a F2P game. It may well help to change their views.