l1zardo1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Selfish rogue, taking Cleric's heals, but then when Cleric gets swarmed he just sits there continuing to dps on boss like nothing is happening.
Any Cleric who uses Forge without divinity, and has Sunburst slotted instead of Daunting is a poor example 'look what happens when he's swarmed'. If one doesn't use their best skills, or use (tab) class feature then he should die. Notice not once did he enter Div mode, not even to punt adds with his <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> Sunburst spell lol.
I am very glad that you cannot fail that badly and still succeed
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited March 2013
Okay everyone, this will be my last public notice about this thread and the participation here-in. I just moved a slew of posts (again) to the Lower Depths Version of this thread. Any further Rule Violations in this thread will result in Official Warnings and escalation to Account Infractions, if necessary. Please, keep the following in mind and adhere to the Rules of Conduct.
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I had more gold as a Cleric because I wasnt ID'ing every green I found (in CB2 or 3) not because I was able to heal myself.
I'm surprised that the developers changed the self healing when most of the people complaining weren't even at max level. My question to the developers is "how did you miss the self heal nerf being 75% reduction when the tooltip stated 50%?" Also "what good is gold in NWO? Cant buy ID scrolls, cant buy 120% mounts, cant buy AD (ok well maybe you can but still selling mounts for AD that people can buy with gold isn't exactly smart).
I guess we'll see what happens when there are less then 10% of the population with clerics at 60.
Open the Launcher. Click Options near the top. Check Disable on-demand patching. This will download another couple of gigs.
I had more gold as a Cleric because I wasnt ID'ing every green I found (in CB2 or 3) not because I was able to heal myself.
I'm surprised that the developers changed the self healing when most of the people complaining weren't even at max level. My question to the developers is "how did you miss the self heal nerf being 75% reduction when the tooltip stated 50%?" Also "what good is gold in NWO? Cant buy ID scrolls, cant buy 120% mounts, cant buy AD (ok well maybe you can but still selling mounts for AD that people can buy with gold isn't exactly smart).
I guess we'll see what happens when there are less then 10% of the population with clerics at 60.
You pretty much sum up exactly my questions on the matter. I'll add, though, that I know what happens at higher levels. The healing return on HW or any of our abilities to get through content make the process hideous. People are pinning their hopes on 25% "fixing" the problem and at least allowing us a bit of healing, but this equates to 200-tick HW at level 30 (and scaling gets worse after this).
Healing isn't a viable mitigation for a cleric any longer, and with the damage outputs not changed, we're basically worse than a GF with no protection. Soloing really stunk at the mid-thirties with quaffing potions more on the cleric than on any other class I played (GWF, CW, TR) to the mid-thirties. Helm's Hold will have clerics weeping.
At least those "this game is too easy" people will have a class to play.
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l1zardo1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Lol I loved Helm's Hold with my new Tiefling. Had a friggin' blast there. Maybe I am in the group that only had fun because it was a challenge. Promise to FRAPS a ton of my playtime and fill up the Caviar Black next beta. (wish that uncompressed vid didn't eat up my slave drive)
So many complained after OBW2 that the game was ezmode. I felt that way as a Cleric. Never had to pot unless I really f'd up. Now I have to pot if I get too many adds to the party at least.
I also pot if I remove HW from my bar .. which as a DPS I desperately want to do ....
(wasn't allowed to make a new thread on Clerics, as apparently one is enough per person) - so, without further ado, Clerics I present to you...The NEW! Cleric Montage Video
...and it is hilarious.
I love how they're pitting L57 Clerics in full parties against L25 mobs. They didn't seem to show Clerics vs their own level for some reason. Have captured many of these shots - no wonder they're not using Health stones when they test content..they're testing content 30 levels beneath them...NEW! Cleric Montage Video
cleric L57 vs L25 mob = WIN
cleric L57 vs L42 mob = WIN
cleric L57 vs L34 mob = WIN
cleric L57 vs L25 mob = WIN
Also of interest is the Cleric there never used their hp potions (13, 27, 20 hp pots remain through all the different fights), hope this doesn't mean they'll be sending another nerf our way because "we don't use any potions"
Here's a Cleric actually soloing!...but then using what looks like GM haxx to spawn not one but two companions (after trying several others out and de-spawning them) to help them fight a mob 15 levels lower...note the Cmd commands in chatbox -
L57 Cleric vs L42 mob + GM haxx and 2 companions = WIN
Oh lawd - we're in trouble - they still haven't used any potions :eek:
Here's a Cleric actually soloing!...but then using what looks like GM haxx to spawn not one but two companions (after trying several others out and de-spawning them) to help them fight a mob 15 levels lower...note the Cmd commands in chatbox -
L57 Cleric vs L42 mob + GM haxx and 2 companions = WIN
Oh lawd - we're in trouble - they still haven't used any potions
Have you given any thought that maybe they set up those fights deliberately to showcase off the power usage and sparklies of the Clerics and not as an actual game-play demonstration? Not really sure what you're trying to prove here but it doesn't prove anything or disprove anything about the current argument on Clerics an Self-Heals. What it does seem to suggest is that they set up these mock battles on purpose for the intention of making a video, especially taking into account the image showing GM Commands.
Have you given any thought that maybe they set up those fights deliberately to showcase off the power usage and sparklies of the Clerics and not as an actual game-play demonstration? Not really sure what you're trying to prove here but it doesn't prove anything or disprove anything about the current argument on Clerics an Self-Heals.
It shows they didn't want to show actual gameplay of a Cleric running around in circles while the rogues chase after swatting at the mob's tail in futility. Then rezzing the downed cleric every so often (or trying to).
That wouldn't look quite as good for the montage. I think we all are agreed on that.
ah, thats good. i though zeb not only removed my posts but also took away my rights.
everything is alright then.
Sorry, we have our own set of those rules in a special section for reference. I accidentally opened those rules up and used that link instead of the public one.
Here's an excellent video of L33 gameplay resulting in a wipe - link
Someone linked an earlier part of these videos attempting to prove Clerics have no trouble at all with the self-heal situation. This is the last video in that gameplay session (the wipe).
Everyone including the Cleric (or almost everyone, think one of the other guys has something else) is using a Cleric companion as well. The Cleric's self-heals are coming from his companion.
THIS IS CLERIC AGGRO IN BW3
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Here's an excellent video of L33 gameplay resulting in a wipe - link
Someone linked an earlier part of these videos attempting to prove Clerics have no trouble at all with the self-heal situation. This is the last video in that gameplay session (the wipe).
Everyone (or almost everyone, think one of the guys has something else) is using a Cleric companion as well.
What I see is a very chaotic party that is not staying close enough to the cleric, making him run through fire and enemies to heal them. There's no party organization at all that I see. No one tanking properly, no one dpsing properly and no one making sure they don't put themselves in a bad spot between them and the cleric. I just see the cleric running all over the place trying his darnedest to heal a dis-functional party.
What else does one expect? The cleric to become a god and heal them from anywhere and repel aggro with a thought?
they will probably fix the DISFUNCTIONAL agro mechanics soon. its not a big problem.
my main concern is that during a 1 minute video it is possible to showcase the entire set of character skills. some of them not once but three times. that is my biggest problem with the game atm - that the total number of skills is 10 (lets not talk about the auto attacks).
What I see is a very chaotic party that is not staying close enough to the cleric, making him run through fire and enemies to heal them.
Yeah not the best players admttedly (though what PUG is), but as an aside they all have Cleric companions, which seems to be mandatory now.
THIS IS CLERIC AGGRO IN BW3
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frost168Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I think it's obvious that those of us who want to play the cleric are highly disappointed in the changes for Beta 3. We also have many who are not going to play clerics commenting the cleric is just fine, which is angering those who want to play clerics, cause they want the devs concentrating on the cleric, rather than looking at the op rogue and wizard. Being what it is, for those of us concentrating on the cleric there are two playing views, split again by two views.
Those talking about the cleric experience level 25 and below, split between solo and dungeon delves. and those talking about the cleric experience late 30's through 40's again, solo and dungeon delves.
I played two clerics. One to level 45 and one to level 27. <was trying two different feat paths>
the cleric experience sub 30 was very different than that 35+ especially for beta 3 compare to beta 2. I know people claim to be of varying degrees of skill, but I can say that I enjoyed the solo play 35+. I am an avid gamer and found it challenging and required me to do more than mash two buttons. I was highly engaged and loving the experience. I was able to solo very well, without having to quaff a ton of potions. One now and then on the tougher mobs, or when I accidentily slid into agro of another group <which may have been the seal agro issue>
The problem most cleric lovers are so emotionally stating here, is the level 35+ dungeon delves. The experience was completely hosed for beta 3. The only clerics I hear saying how they managed this fiasco, was that they simply did not heal their group. The more I reran the dungeons, changing out spells, the more easily this was managed, but not as the healer, as another dps member like everyone keeps stating.
Running with my squad of buddies, all who are experienced gamers, was much different than Pug groups. Pugs were simply fiascos, as they were beta players, and not beta testers. All for one, none for all. The only cared about themselves, not in refining game play. The increased agro, couple with low self healing, left the cleric in a pickle.
Now we all know what the devs have stated about this. The agro issue they are working to resolve, but there will be increased agro on cleric heals. That is evident by what they are saying. They are also saying that cleric self healing is going to be lowered, possibly in the 50% range. These two changes are not sitting well with the cleric community and the community is voicing their opinions. Couple this with pvp, and the devs are now pretty much scratching their heads about the cleric class.
IMO they are trying to do too much with the cleric. They are trying to balance classes on too many fronts. Solo, group, monetary, pvp. They are going to **** it all up, trying to make it all equal/balanced.
Pick an area. concentrate on pve. then work on the pvp aspect after the pve is satisfied. Most games that do well in the long run do not care about balancing classes based on solo content, as most end game is not solo, but on end game group content. Unless they are trying to say most end game content that is meaningful is solo content, they are never going to have a happy balance with the cleric. Either our heals are too op, or our dmg is too op. Clerics are not easy to balance, which is why most gamers avoid the class. Clerics end up being a necessity for endgame/group play, but very poor at soloing.
It's my hope the devs have gamers playtesting their cleric changes before the game goes live. I would love to play a cleric, but as it stands now, i will be with most people, and play the OP rogue and level a cleric as my alt, hoping they get the class under control.
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rojorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 178Bounty Hunter
(wasn't allowed to make a new thread on Clerics, as apparently one is enough per person) - so, without further ado, Clerics I present to you...The NEW! Cleric Montage Video
...and it is hilarious.
I love how they're pitting L57 Clerics in full parties against L25 mobs. They didn't seem to show Clerics vs their own level for some reason. Have captured many of these shots - no wonder they're not using Health stones when they test content..they're testing content 30 levels beneath them..."
For a demonstration of reality in the current build that is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> , however if that is a statement of intent for same level mobs im sold!....oh wait i have already paid them...but still if they can put that into practice i would be eternally grateful.
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lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
edited March 2013
It does seem sort of dodgy to fight mobs 20-30 level lower, even for a demo video. That certainly isn't representative of the gameplay I remember on BWE3. Heck, not even BWE1.
However, "Montage" isn't an inappropriate term. It's basically edited or spliced video clips to make a continuous scene. Key point on edited. We can watch Duck2012's video from last beta for a better example (he doesn't die, but it does show the accurate potion use).
I wouldn't be upset if someone managed to hack that video to link to a Benny Hill episode, however... (isn't it almost April?)
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bejita231Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited March 2013
When they see no cleric slotting heal spells they will change healing back
And i can basically do the same thing now by using the cleric companion, i never have to use potions on any class, the rogue makes far more money than my cleric ever did because of its OP damage
Why does rogue get to kill rares in 5 seconds, but my cleric cant heal for more than 50 points of health, and takes 5 minutes to kill rares
Edit: The best part of that montage was when the cleric went into divine mode and started channel healing one guy, and the guys health bar litterally did not move, if this class is to be a nuker take away the heals and give them more nukes
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baka777Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Interpreted "After a lengthy discussion with PWE, they concluded that less zen would be purchased for the cash shop healing stones, therefore any and all methods of circumventing these future purchases have been nerfed. After much discussion, we concluded the best way to make money off this MMO is to nix the healing class and force everyone to "buy" their heals. Enjoy the new game model."
"P.S. the healing stones are cosmetic only. please remember that. u don't have to purchase them /giggle" Cryptic dev team
SWEEET !!!!!
Winner winner chicken dinner!!!
F2P means be prepared for everything you expected for free to now cost a small "convenience" fee.
That said, the potion reliance is saddening & hopefully the Chinese overlords will throw us a bone on this one.
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magusemperorMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited March 2013
So heals I apply to myself are crippled into being a waste of time in and out of fights, which will encourage me to spec more into a dps role, which will be fun until endgame when people are looking for healers and I'm a crappy dps specced cleric - then I'll have to buy a respec from the cash shop...ah now it makes sense.
Guess I just wont be a dps-cleric and instead I'll just go dps rogue. More damage + added ability to fight while invisible, and I'll just dish out the pwnage with style while the people saying that cleric is fine where it is keep my health topped up for me. I mean sure, as a rogue I'll still have to use potions - maybe even the same amount as a cleric, but at least I'll have a decent class skill I can use on myself without feeling like I need to switch classes immediately.
A D&D cleric that can't heal a party is a useless waste of a party slot. A D&D cleric who can't self heal is a useless waste of a character slot....I play healers in every game I play. I play healers first in MMO's. I loooove to spend money in cash shops on pretty shiny things..... If the game goes live with this pathetic excuse for a cleric class as it is I for one will not bother to play the game.
Since they want to tone down cleric selfhealing in solo instances, they should make all cleric healing be 50% + 12,5%/team member.
In this case clerics have lower healing when soloing, but enough selfhealing when grouped.
Problem solved, goal achieved, everybody happy, they just need to do the math.
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l1zardo1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Ya. They changed too many things at once, which you never do when properly running an experiment. Limit the variables!
If they try and slap one number on and think it will be perfectly balanced in solo/party and pvp they are pretty delusional.
0
rojorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 178Bounty Hunter
edited March 2013
I would also like to pose some questions regarding what they/you want from the game:
1) How accessible(required IQ) do you want to have the class require ?
2) What role would the character be taking & gearing towards in dungeons/groups and pvp ?
3) if it is truly a support character does it deserve a rez ?
4) Should they just give the character lifesteal, buff the other classes life steal and be done with it ?
Comments
Any Cleric who uses Forge without divinity, and has Sunburst slotted instead of Daunting is a poor example 'look what happens when he's swarmed'. If one doesn't use their best skills, or use (tab) class feature then he should die. Notice not once did he enter Div mode, not even to punt adds with his <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> Sunburst spell lol.
I am very glad that you cannot fail that badly and still succeed
There, I think that covers all the bases. If not, please review the Rules of Conduct.
Thanks,
Zebular, PWE Community Moderator
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I'm surprised that the developers changed the self healing when most of the people complaining weren't even at max level. My question to the developers is "how did you miss the self heal nerf being 75% reduction when the tooltip stated 50%?" Also "what good is gold in NWO? Cant buy ID scrolls, cant buy 120% mounts, cant buy AD (ok well maybe you can but still selling mounts for AD that people can buy with gold isn't exactly smart).
I guess we'll see what happens when there are less then 10% of the population with clerics at 60.
Ability Scores || All Attribute Roll Combinations || My Cleric Stream \o/
You pretty much sum up exactly my questions on the matter. I'll add, though, that I know what happens at higher levels. The healing return on HW or any of our abilities to get through content make the process hideous. People are pinning their hopes on 25% "fixing" the problem and at least allowing us a bit of healing, but this equates to 200-tick HW at level 30 (and scaling gets worse after this).
Healing isn't a viable mitigation for a cleric any longer, and with the damage outputs not changed, we're basically worse than a GF with no protection. Soloing really stunk at the mid-thirties with quaffing potions more on the cleric than on any other class I played (GWF, CW, TR) to the mid-thirties. Helm's Hold will have clerics weeping.
At least those "this game is too easy" people will have a class to play.
So many complained after OBW2 that the game was ezmode. I felt that way as a Cleric. Never had to pot unless I really f'd up. Now I have to pot if I get too many adds to the party at least.
I also pot if I remove HW from my bar .. which as a DPS I desperately want to do ....
...and it is hilarious.
I love how they're pitting L57 Clerics in full parties against L25 mobs. They didn't seem to show Clerics vs their own level for some reason. Have captured many of these shots - no wonder they're not using Health stones when they test content..they're testing content 30 levels beneath them...NEW! Cleric Montage Video
Also of interest is the Cleric there never used their hp potions (13, 27, 20 hp pots remain through all the different fights), hope this doesn't mean they'll be sending another nerf our way because "we don't use any potions"
L57 Cleric vs L42 mob + GM haxx and 2 companions = WIN
Oh lawd - we're in trouble - they still haven't used any potions :eek:
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
It shows they didn't want to show actual gameplay of a Cleric running around in circles while the rogues chase after swatting at the mob's tail in futility. Then rezzing the downed cleric every so often (or trying to).
That wouldn't look quite as good for the montage. I think we all are agreed on that.
Hey, zeb. how come i cant access the official rules?
I can't access it either. Guess we're both in the dogbox.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/announcement.php?f=891
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
everything is alright then.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Someone linked an earlier part of these videos attempting to prove Clerics have no trouble at all with the self-heal situation. This is the last video in that gameplay session (the wipe).
Everyone including the Cleric (or almost everyone, think one of the other guys has something else) is using a Cleric companion as well. The Cleric's self-heals are coming from his companion.
What else does one expect? The cleric to become a god and heal them from anywhere and repel aggro with a thought?
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
my main concern is that during a 1 minute video it is possible to showcase the entire set of character skills. some of them not once but three times. that is my biggest problem with the game atm - that the total number of skills is 10 (lets not talk about the auto attacks).
Yeah not the best players admttedly (though what PUG is), but as an aside they all have Cleric companions, which seems to be mandatory now.
Those talking about the cleric experience level 25 and below, split between solo and dungeon delves. and those talking about the cleric experience late 30's through 40's again, solo and dungeon delves.
I played two clerics. One to level 45 and one to level 27. <was trying two different feat paths>
the cleric experience sub 30 was very different than that 35+ especially for beta 3 compare to beta 2. I know people claim to be of varying degrees of skill, but I can say that I enjoyed the solo play 35+. I am an avid gamer and found it challenging and required me to do more than mash two buttons. I was highly engaged and loving the experience. I was able to solo very well, without having to quaff a ton of potions. One now and then on the tougher mobs, or when I accidentily slid into agro of another group <which may have been the seal agro issue>
The problem most cleric lovers are so emotionally stating here, is the level 35+ dungeon delves. The experience was completely hosed for beta 3. The only clerics I hear saying how they managed this fiasco, was that they simply did not heal their group. The more I reran the dungeons, changing out spells, the more easily this was managed, but not as the healer, as another dps member like everyone keeps stating.
Running with my squad of buddies, all who are experienced gamers, was much different than Pug groups. Pugs were simply fiascos, as they were beta players, and not beta testers. All for one, none for all. The only cared about themselves, not in refining game play. The increased agro, couple with low self healing, left the cleric in a pickle.
Now we all know what the devs have stated about this. The agro issue they are working to resolve, but there will be increased agro on cleric heals. That is evident by what they are saying. They are also saying that cleric self healing is going to be lowered, possibly in the 50% range. These two changes are not sitting well with the cleric community and the community is voicing their opinions. Couple this with pvp, and the devs are now pretty much scratching their heads about the cleric class.
IMO they are trying to do too much with the cleric. They are trying to balance classes on too many fronts. Solo, group, monetary, pvp. They are going to **** it all up, trying to make it all equal/balanced.
Pick an area. concentrate on pve. then work on the pvp aspect after the pve is satisfied. Most games that do well in the long run do not care about balancing classes based on solo content, as most end game is not solo, but on end game group content. Unless they are trying to say most end game content that is meaningful is solo content, they are never going to have a happy balance with the cleric. Either our heals are too op, or our dmg is too op. Clerics are not easy to balance, which is why most gamers avoid the class. Clerics end up being a necessity for endgame/group play, but very poor at soloing.
It's my hope the devs have gamers playtesting their cleric changes before the game goes live. I would love to play a cleric, but as it stands now, i will be with most people, and play the OP rogue and level a cleric as my alt, hoping they get the class under control.
For a demonstration of reality in the current build that is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> , however if that is a statement of intent for same level mobs im sold!....oh wait i have already paid them...but still if they can put that into practice i would be eternally grateful.
However, "Montage" isn't an inappropriate term. It's basically edited or spliced video clips to make a continuous scene. Key point on edited. We can watch Duck2012's video from last beta for a better example (he doesn't die, but it does show the accurate potion use).
I wouldn't be upset if someone managed to hack that video to link to a Benny Hill episode, however... (isn't it almost April?)
And i can basically do the same thing now by using the cleric companion, i never have to use potions on any class, the rogue makes far more money than my cleric ever did because of its OP damage
Why does rogue get to kill rares in 5 seconds, but my cleric cant heal for more than 50 points of health, and takes 5 minutes to kill rares
Edit: The best part of that montage was when the cleric went into divine mode and started channel healing one guy, and the guys health bar litterally did not move, if this class is to be a nuker take away the heals and give them more nukes
Winner winner chicken dinner!!!
F2P means be prepared for everything you expected for free to now cost a small "convenience" fee.
That said, the potion reliance is saddening & hopefully the Chinese overlords will throw us a bone on this one.
Guess I just wont be a dps-cleric and instead I'll just go dps rogue. More damage + added ability to fight while invisible, and I'll just dish out the pwnage with style while the people saying that cleric is fine where it is keep my health topped up for me. I mean sure, as a rogue I'll still have to use potions - maybe even the same amount as a cleric, but at least I'll have a decent class skill I can use on myself without feeling like I need to switch classes immediately.
Seems like we have many Chicken Littles though
In this case clerics have lower healing when soloing, but enough selfhealing when grouped.
Problem solved, goal achieved, everybody happy, they just need to do the math.
If they try and slap one number on and think it will be perfectly balanced in solo/party and pvp they are pretty delusional.
1) How accessible(required IQ) do you want to have the class require ?
2) What role would the character be taking & gearing towards in dungeons/groups and pvp ?
3) if it is truly a support character does it deserve a rez ?
4) Should they just give the character lifesteal, buff the other classes life steal and be done with it ?