Perfect World actually have servers in Australia for Blacklight: Retribution. (which isn't half bad, btw)
I'd love to see it happen. I always support games with aussie servers.
Like Heroes of Newerth! What a fantastic game that is. Best game ever made! xD
Both these examples are a little different though. One is a moba and the other is an FPS. Playing either on awful ping (especially an FPS) makes the experience practically unplayable.
So regardless how you look at it, while the NBN will reduce the ping around Australia, it won't do anything from Australia to America. It will remain at around 180ms from the entrance to the pipe to the exit.
It will speed up your connection in Australia which, indirectly, speeds up your international connection. Any reduction to ping anywhere on the route from your PC to the server results in lowerping. Fibre > Cable. Always. Even then, there are new pipes being laid all the time.
You use SW:ToR as a comparison or justification for it, yet, the server is a waste land, I am surprised they are even able to keep the server afloat. Very little population and hard to get anything done unless you are in one of the 4 guilds doing anything on it.
Hyperbole, hyperbole and more hyperoble. You have nothing but anecdotal evidence whereas EA/Bioware has enough evidence to obviously support the servers. This is EA we're talking about, they'd kill their own parents to save a dollar. If there was any reason whatsoever to shutdown the servers, they would have done so already. At peak hours the servers are always at medium/high population (forgot what Swtor's term is).
I hate how people throw the word *Oceanic* around. Do people realize how many different languages are spoken in the Oceanic demographic section of the world? Sure, the Oceanic demographic part of the world may very well be 300+ million people strong of which, very little of them speak english. Then compounding this issue we have network communication laws blocking us/them.
And yet...how many people from the SEA region (Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia etc...) do you meet in MMOs? I for one have rarely see any player from that region and the ones that I have were Singaporeans who spoke English very well. WoW has arguably the biggest Oceanic playerbase of any MMO, I have been playing it for 6 years and guess what the majority population of the Oceanic region is? Australian and New Zealand players. That's under 30million out of "300+ million" from the other countries/areas around us and yet we're still a bigger population. Although I do agree to just call them Australian (Kiwis probably wouldn't be very happy about this)/Pacific (like Swtor)
and no boundries on thier network communitcations, both countries have 300+ million people that could be potential customers, Europe having in excess of 600+ million, so....it is a no brainer. Australia has 30+ million people of which a small fraction of them are gamers, our telecommunication laws thanks to our goverment screw any company over even wanting to cater to us.
The only reason we never get any servers, except for in rare cases (like Swtor and Vindictus) are defeatist spastics like you. The only way we're going to get servers is to keepp hounding the developers until we get them, if they see the kind of **** that you're posting and think "welp they OBVIOUSLY don't want servers, let's not give it to them". Stop blaming others (even though it may be their fault) and take some god damn initiative and ask for what you want, what you pay for.
The only thing we can hope for is, when the NBN goes full steam ahead, that they remove the bandwidth cap we have in Australia, that is what kills any hopes and dreams of having our own servers here in Aus. I have often wondered how Warhammer Online, DoTa 2 and SW: ToR were able to get servers off the ground here without paying Telstra a mountain of cash for bandwidth usage.
Non-issue. Servers are a completely different business to domestic connections. You can get very cheap and fast Australian servers very easily now without any bandwidth cap. NBN is already bringing in 100/40 plans with 1TB of usage (even more in some cases) for under $100 a month, which is already better than what I pay for with Telstra (100/2.4 500GB @ $120/m). It is, as you said, a business model. If those companies didn't think it was worth it to put Australian servers out, they definitely wouldn't have. Let's ignore WoW here, as it is an outlier. Internode offered to host WoW servers probably 5-6 years ago and massively discounted prices (read: less than what Blizzard pays to host the servers in America) and Blizzard declined. So they obviously have some sort of agenda with regards to Australian servers.
Tyestor - Great Weapon Fighter - Mindflayer
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thorlundtMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
I disagree. All the MMO launches I've seen (which is a helluva lot), if it's a major MMO the Oceanic server (official or unofficial) gets instantly full, and the population has to overflow into 1-3 other servers. Even for a less-than-fully-hyped MMO like Neverwinter you'll get plenty enough Oceanics to fill up at least 1 server I think. Rift for example filled up 3 (maybe 4?) Oceanic servers on launch day.
However I do have the sneaking suspicion that the game only has 1 server, in which case I would support keeping it to the 1 server. I know TESO and Star Citizen are both boasting 1 megaserver so I might be getting my wires crossed though.
I hope you're right, providentt, and an Oceanic server won't be such a waste after all. However, for every success story you mention there a many others that were not so successful. Whatever happens I hope the Oceanic community stays in one place and is not fractured through conflicting information from players and devs. If that means playing on US servers with higher ping then I'm ok with that, not ideal, but passable.
Never seen that in a game with Oceanic servers from day 1. ToR's Oceanic servers are dead because they released it 6 months after launch and nobody wanted to server change. I was one of those people. Well, that and there's no point in playing the game once you finish the story.
Rift's Oceanic server that I was on (which was the 2nd overflow, so Oceanic server #3) is still running to this day.
Bravo good points, yep i had to buy my copy overseas (ebay), then the EB stores were actually buying US copies to sell in store here in OZ, for the first 3-4 months, well that's how the guy at EB told me they arranged it.
Any chance of getting this stickied? for future referance.
The only reason we never get any servers, except for in rare cases (like Swtor and Vindictus) are defeatist spastics like you. The only way we're going to get servers is to keepp hounding the developers until we get them, if they see the kind of **** that you're posting and think "welp they OBVIOUSLY don't want servers, let's not give it to them". Stop blaming others (even though it may be their fault) and take some god damn initiative and ask for what you want, what you pay for.
This is so true. I remember browsing the Heroes of Newerth forums and cringing at the hordes of morons from Australia claiming that "we don't need servers, 200ms-300ms is completely fine". Of course, they now play in the recently built Australian servers after 3 years of complaining from players who actually care about a better experience.
I understand apathetic players, but I'll never understand those who argue AGAINST lower ping.
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docdoodyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Come on guys! There won't be enough Aussies playing to warrant an Australian Server, let alone a Server IN Australia. Although, of course, it would be nice.
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feiyhdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
Come on guys! There won't be enough Aussies playing to warrant an Australian Server, let alone a Server IN Australia. Although, of course, it would be nice.
Just stop.
I want to point out how ridiculous this is but I think it will fall on deaf ears to be honest, Clearly you havent read ANY of the text above you.
Oceanic players need to band together to achieve a server of our own. We all know we have the population to sustain such a server, and quite easily the profit to make it financially viable (I'm seeing a lot of "Hero of the North" titles in this thread? :P)
I think it's about time this became a standard, not something that needs to be debated every time a new MMO (or any online game for that matter) comes out?
How about at least acknowledge us here Mods? - Would love a sticky to attract some official attention.
rakannittinMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited February 2013
I dont see the point of it in a game like NWO. This is designed to be one big server with everyone, making a small server for Oceanic will not help anything. Yes I loved SWTOR having low pings so I could pound everyone in pvp instead of being the pounded, but it is not viable for most games to have an oceanic based server.
My 2c anyways
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teknykkMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I want to point out how ridiculous this is but I think it will fall on deaf ears to be honest, Clearly you havent read ANY of the text above you.
Oceanic players need to band together to achieve a server of our own. We all know we have the population to sustain such a server, and quite easily the profit to make it financially viable (I'm seeing a lot of "Hero of the North" titles in this thread? :P)
I think it's about time this became a standard, not something that needs to be debated every time a new MMO (or any online game for that matter) comes out?
How about at least acknowledge us here Mods? - Would love a sticky to attract some official attention.
I'm an Aussie and frankly I don't think I need to do anything. It's been done to death in the past and most we ever get is a server labelled Oceanic, but it still located in the country of the MMO's origin. And to be completely honest, half the reason why we never get a server isn't always because of the owners of the game themselves, but often their inability (or unwillingness) to follow the laws Telstra or other providers demand of them.
That said though, sometimes it is the case of the MMO's owner, such as Blizzard, who wanted to place some servers here but wanted the provider to "pay them" for doing it as one of the few reasons (or excuses if you prefer) for the end result of us not getting a server here.
At the end of the day though, if it became "standard" for us, then it'll become standard for another country...and another nation of people will winge...and it'll continue onward for them...and so on, so forth. If you want a server here, give PWE/Cryptic a damn good reason why we deserve to have one in the first place and why it'd be profitable let alone viable. From my perspective, I honestly don't think it'll make a whole lot of a difference when it comes to latency or ping (it might, but I'm not exactly optimistic).
I'm all for it if it will have some kind of merit, but frankly...I don't really like to be told I need to, or have to band together with the rest of my kind to winge and beg for something that may not even be worth doing so for, especially based on the logic with the poster just above me.
If the combat is the new MMO style of not being auto lock snooze fest then the improved ping of an Aussie/Pacific/Oceanic server will be very important.
Decent F2P games have the advantage of a much smaller drop off in players after the launch period. This should help justify a dedicated server around here imo. It shouldn't become deserted as has happened with for example WAR which sadly was not as good as it should have been and subscription based.
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fafhrydMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 19Arc User
Since the starting population will not be so big and the timelines are different I don't think in the first 6 months that we'll need more servers. I mean they should first wait and see how many are going to play the game and how many are only trying it only and then come up with plans for more servers
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ashrox10Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
European based myself however I wish you guys the best of luck getting a server. I for one will be all for a EU one!
I'm from Asia Singapore and I like playing with people from all over the world because of their culture and I have made great friends despite racial differences / some language barriers. I agree that ping will affect the quality of game play.. or performance in PVP etc... so I will support the idea of an oceanic server! However that's if only the ping/lag is unbearable on the usual servers
On a side note, I just hope there wouldn't be any 'regional' ip-bans as I would definitely dread having to go through proxies in order to play a great game! Cryptic/Perfect World, please don't ever go there as we have many people genuinely loving your game!
European based myself however I wish you guys the best of luck getting a server. I for one will be all for a EU one!
today we have opened two brand new servers in Europe (Momaganon and Lothranis), as well as released two brand new PWI clients – one in German and one in French!
These two new servers are located in Amsterdam (The Netherlands)
Since the starting population will not be so big and the timelines are different I don't think in the first 6 months that we'll need more servers. I mean they should first wait and see how many are going to play the game and how many are only trying it only and then come up with plans for more servers
and then have the same issue, EA had with trying to get peeps to merge and the fact that paid founders based on beta time slot lost there mondays (=US sunday based on the time differance)
so if live events were to occur.......... well just sayin.
Actually, the NBN will substantially lower our pings to the west coast of the US. However, you are right in saying that we will only ever get a bit better than what we are at now. I believe the best possible ping we can have from the east coast of Australia to the west coast of the US is 130-140 ping. It will never go below that unless a new technology is invented that defies the known laws of physics.
The speed of light through the fiber is not the bottleneck so no need to defy the laws of physics. Light through fiber should travel from Sydney to Los Angeles in 16ms. The problem is all the repeater tech in the middle slowing it down. So all we actually need is more advanced repeater tech or a better transmission system so the signal can travel further without a repeater.
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wifeaggr0Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 16Arc User
edited March 2013
OZ server why not if PWE have other servers here in OZ and the game is actioned based and PVP latency/ping is a biggie, sounds like a great idea.
Because of the action combat style of the game, I would say that the low latency is required to make the game enjoyable/functional.
PvP of 200ms vs 20ms is going to be QQfest
Lol I was happy as hell to get ~350ms last weekend. That's with a gaming VPN connection to LA too
Thai ISP are fairly well known to cheap out on Int'l / Pacific pipe rental lol
On a side note, I just hope there wouldn't be any 'regional' ip-bans as I would definitely dread having to go through proxies in order to play a great game! Cryptic/Perfect World, please don't ever go there as we have many people genuinely loving your game!
If Wanmei opens up CN servers, they may start using IP blocks. They do have quite a nice homepage for the game atm
...
If Wanmei opens up CN servers, they may start using IP blocks. They do have quite a nice homepage for the game atm
...
They already have IP blocks. China is already in blocked region. Regions are blocked due to admnistrative reason or because another company which localizes the game in that area exists.
There is a page on PWE's website listed all the blocked regions.
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hipolipolopigusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I noticed that the latency playing from NZ was somewhat daunting. I'd dodge an attack, only to be hit and rubberband back to the knockdown location. Either more regions, slower attack timers or basic latency compensation would do the trick.
Edit: Actually, what would be nice is a global character server with regional game servers. That way we can use a different server without needing to start another character.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
Actually, what would be nice is a global character server with regional game servers. That way we can use a different server without needing to start another character.
This is a very convenient setup for every MMOs around especially when they use only one global server.
Will be great to have an Oceanic server! Though, I won't set my hopes too high for it to actually happen.
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tehpewMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited March 2013
I voted for the first option. I think after the SWTOR Oceanic server disaster a lot of people realised it wasn't so great to have a dedicated Oceanic server after all. I will agree having a higher ping does make things like PvP and action based combat very frustrating when low latency becomes more important. However, one of the biggest selling points of an MMO is community and this is lost when you have servers that are region locked for a very small player base.
After the SWTOR Oceanic servers were released they were great for about a month then when players started letting their subs lapse it became a ghost town. Players in Singapore also reported that their ping on the Oceanic servers was not much better than the US West Coast servers. Just because we live in a region that is a great distance from where the servers are hosted doesn't make us entitled to local servers. The only choice we have is to pay for a lower ping. Some possible alternatives could be to offer Oceanic players a ping lowering service which could be included in the founder's pack or as part of an optional subscription fee. Being a F2P game, I think it would be asking a lot to include it for free.
SWTOR pvp Oceanic server was the only fail. Dalborra (the Oceanic pve server) did fine - never had problems getting parties or having to wait in line and camp my quest objectives :rolleyes: even the RP server seemed to have a few people running about last I played (about a month ago). Luckily we don't have that separated in Neverwinter, so failing would be a moot point.
Comments
Both these examples are a little different though. One is a moba and the other is an FPS. Playing either on awful ping (especially an FPS) makes the experience practically unplayable.
I know this? Read the entire post. I specifically addressed this near the end of that post.
It will speed up your connection in Australia which, indirectly, speeds up your international connection. Any reduction to ping anywhere on the route from your PC to the server results in lowerping. Fibre > Cable. Always. Even then, there are new pipes being laid all the time.
Hyperbole, hyperbole and more hyperoble. You have nothing but anecdotal evidence whereas EA/Bioware has enough evidence to obviously support the servers. This is EA we're talking about, they'd kill their own parents to save a dollar. If there was any reason whatsoever to shutdown the servers, they would have done so already. At peak hours the servers are always at medium/high population (forgot what Swtor's term is).
And yet...how many people from the SEA region (Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia etc...) do you meet in MMOs? I for one have rarely see any player from that region and the ones that I have were Singaporeans who spoke English very well. WoW has arguably the biggest Oceanic playerbase of any MMO, I have been playing it for 6 years and guess what the majority population of the Oceanic region is? Australian and New Zealand players. That's under 30million out of "300+ million" from the other countries/areas around us and yet we're still a bigger population. Although I do agree to just call them Australian (Kiwis probably wouldn't be very happy about this)/Pacific (like Swtor)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Europe - I'm sorry, what? Did you really just say that? America, yes, Europe? What? **** no.
The only reason we never get any servers, except for in rare cases (like Swtor and Vindictus) are defeatist spastics like you. The only way we're going to get servers is to keepp hounding the developers until we get them, if they see the kind of **** that you're posting and think "welp they OBVIOUSLY don't want servers, let's not give it to them". Stop blaming others (even though it may be their fault) and take some god damn initiative and ask for what you want, what you pay for.
Non-issue. Servers are a completely different business to domestic connections. You can get very cheap and fast Australian servers very easily now without any bandwidth cap. NBN is already bringing in 100/40 plans with 1TB of usage (even more in some cases) for under $100 a month, which is already better than what I pay for with Telstra (100/2.4 500GB @ $120/m). It is, as you said, a business model. If those companies didn't think it was worth it to put Australian servers out, they definitely wouldn't have. Let's ignore WoW here, as it is an outlier. Internode offered to host WoW servers probably 5-6 years ago and massively discounted prices (read: less than what Blizzard pays to host the servers in America) and Blizzard declined. So they obviously have some sort of agenda with regards to Australian servers.
I hope you're right, providentt, and an Oceanic server won't be such a waste after all. However, for every success story you mention there a many others that were not so successful. Whatever happens I hope the Oceanic community stays in one place and is not fractured through conflicting information from players and devs. If that means playing on US servers with higher ping then I'm ok with that, not ideal, but passable.
Bravo good points, yep i had to buy my copy overseas (ebay), then the EB stores were actually buying US copies to sell in store here in OZ, for the first 3-4 months, well that's how the guy at EB told me they arranged it.
Any chance of getting this stickied? for future referance.
This is so true. I remember browsing the Heroes of Newerth forums and cringing at the hordes of morons from Australia claiming that "we don't need servers, 200ms-300ms is completely fine". Of course, they now play in the recently built Australian servers after 3 years of complaining from players who actually care about a better experience.
I understand apathetic players, but I'll never understand those who argue AGAINST lower ping.
Just stop.
I want to point out how ridiculous this is but I think it will fall on deaf ears to be honest, Clearly you havent read ANY of the text above you.
Oceanic players need to band together to achieve a server of our own. We all know we have the population to sustain such a server, and quite easily the profit to make it financially viable (I'm seeing a lot of "Hero of the North" titles in this thread? :P)
I think it's about time this became a standard, not something that needs to be debated every time a new MMO (or any online game for that matter) comes out?
How about at least acknowledge us here Mods? - Would love a sticky to attract some official attention.
My 2c anyways
I'm an Aussie and frankly I don't think I need to do anything. It's been done to death in the past and most we ever get is a server labelled Oceanic, but it still located in the country of the MMO's origin. And to be completely honest, half the reason why we never get a server isn't always because of the owners of the game themselves, but often their inability (or unwillingness) to follow the laws Telstra or other providers demand of them.
That said though, sometimes it is the case of the MMO's owner, such as Blizzard, who wanted to place some servers here but wanted the provider to "pay them" for doing it as one of the few reasons (or excuses if you prefer) for the end result of us not getting a server here.
At the end of the day though, if it became "standard" for us, then it'll become standard for another country...and another nation of people will winge...and it'll continue onward for them...and so on, so forth. If you want a server here, give PWE/Cryptic a damn good reason why we deserve to have one in the first place and why it'd be profitable let alone viable. From my perspective, I honestly don't think it'll make a whole lot of a difference when it comes to latency or ping (it might, but I'm not exactly optimistic).
I'm all for it if it will have some kind of merit, but frankly...I don't really like to be told I need to, or have to band together with the rest of my kind to winge and beg for something that may not even be worth doing so for, especially based on the logic with the poster just above me.
SWTOR Oceanic servers give us 35ms ping (from NZ).
I still sub to this game specifically because they gave us our own servers.
Decent F2P games have the advantage of a much smaller drop off in players after the launch period. This should help justify a dedicated server around here imo. It shouldn't become deserted as has happened with for example WAR which sadly was not as good as it should have been and subscription based.
PvE Enthusiast.
On a side note, I just hope there wouldn't be any 'regional' ip-bans as I would definitely dread having to go through proxies in order to play a great game! Cryptic/Perfect World, please don't ever go there as we have many people genuinely loving your game!
Silverblade (60 TR), Silver (60 DC), SilverShield (60 GF), SilverStorm (60 CW), Ultimate (60 GWF)
today we have opened two brand new servers in Europe (Momaganon and Lothranis), as well as released two brand new PWI clients – one in German and one in French!
These two new servers are located in Amsterdam (The Netherlands)
and then have the same issue, EA had with trying to get peeps to merge and the fact that paid founders based on beta time slot lost there mondays (=US sunday based on the time differance)
so if live events were to occur.......... well just sayin.
http://heroesofneverwinter.enjin.com
In this here guild. Numbers are coming along nicely. Feel free to stop by.
The speed of light through the fiber is not the bottleneck so no need to defy the laws of physics. Light through fiber should travel from Sydney to Los Angeles in 16ms. The problem is all the repeater tech in the middle slowing it down. So all we actually need is more advanced repeater tech or a better transmission system so the signal can travel further without a repeater.
Lol I was happy as hell to get ~350ms last weekend. That's with a gaming VPN connection to LA too
Thai ISP are fairly well known to cheap out on Int'l / Pacific pipe rental lol
If Wanmei opens up CN servers, they may start using IP blocks. They do have quite a nice homepage for the game atm
http://nw.wanmei.com/
They already have IP blocks. China is already in blocked region. Regions are blocked due to admnistrative reason or because another company which localizes the game in that area exists.
There is a page on PWE's website listed all the blocked regions.
Edit: Actually, what would be nice is a global character server with regional game servers. That way we can use a different server without needing to start another character.
Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
After the SWTOR Oceanic servers were released they were great for about a month then when players started letting their subs lapse it became a ghost town. Players in Singapore also reported that their ping on the Oceanic servers was not much better than the US West Coast servers. Just because we live in a region that is a great distance from where the servers are hosted doesn't make us entitled to local servers. The only choice we have is to pay for a lower ping. Some possible alternatives could be to offer Oceanic players a ping lowering service which could be included in the founder's pack or as part of an optional subscription fee. Being a F2P game, I think it would be asking a lot to include it for free.
BTW .... looking for a few peeps to go do dungeons and foundry stuff with. Will be rolling as a Cleric
It doesn't open until 3am my time, but I should be up quite early Sat morning. UTC +7