I might normally concede that point, but the particular video in question in this thread has, what I feel, is a fairly reasonable explanation for this.
"We'll add some after launch," most likely for a fee, isn't a reasonable explanation of anything other than Cryptic's greed.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited February 2013
Howdy all,
Let's get back to the topic. No more comparing other games or talking about how great other games are. If you want to talk about other games, please use their forums or the Off Topic Forums. Furthermore, there is far too much "dissent" and "overly negative" comments being thrown around that are not constructive and are not conductive of community discussions. I'd rather not prune or lock this thread but I will be more than willing to start stripping out these types of replies and placing them in the Lower Depths.
Please do not respond to this post of mine, as that is in itself a violation of the Rules of Conduct. Please re-read these rules, as they may have changed since you last read them.
Thank you, Zebular, Community Moderator
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akwartz01Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited February 2013
I'm hoping Archer Ranger and Battle Cleric are added first but it'll probably be Avenging Paladin or Two Blades Ranger since they usually are the most popular classes.
0
celantraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 465
edited February 2013
There has been a lot of talk about how this game is not like the PnP D&D. I have to say, "Thank god." I dont want my computer game to be like a PnP game. I want the flavor without the overhead. I want a computer game to play well, provide solid combat experience, give me a chance to imerse myself in the world provided, and most of all I want to have fun. From what I have played so far, this game delivers in spades.
I am confident that they will deliver new classes over time. I am confident that they will do this within the confines of what they can offer based upon thier business model and schedule. I expect that they will treat the playerbase with respect, and while I would really like better communications then what we have today, Cryptic is no worse that any other development house creating MMO games out there in that reguard.
I think that to expect an MMO that mimics the 4E rules exactly and copies the mechanisums of a PnP game is unrealistic and simply not possible. If it were then we would all complain how boreing and pendantic the game was. I had mentioned in a previous thread that Pnp games are as different from computer games, as books are from movies. They are not the same thing and I truly appreciate the developers for realizing this and responding accordingly.
0
nemesis788450Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
i heard rumors of dragonborn race and scourge warlock comming up really soon
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Dragonborn would make sense as the first race to hit the store since it's probably going to be really popular amongst players who are new to D&D.
Can't say I care that much about them or Warlocks though.
Dragonborn would make more sense because Dragonborn and Genasi are only two races which are common in Faerun (4e) which have not been announced yet - not because of popularity but because of lore. Popularity-wise orc race will have more takers.
0
nemesis788450Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
i wana play an evil character, and warlock seems to be the only shot at it
There has been a lot of talk about how this game is not like the PnP D&D. I have to say, "Thank god." I dont want my computer game to be like a PnP game. I want the flavor without the overhead. I want a computer game to play well, provide solid combat experience, give me a chance to imerse myself in the world provided, and most of all I want to have fun. From what I have played so far, this game delivers in spades.
I am confident that they will deliver new classes over time. I am confident that they will do this within the confines of what they can offer based upon thier business model and schedule. I expect that they will treat the playerbase with respect, and while I would really like better communications then what we have today, Cryptic is no worse that any other development house creating MMO games out there in that reguard.
I think that to expect an MMO that mimics the 4E rules exactly and copies the mechanisums of a PnP game is unrealistic and simply not possible. If it were then we would all complain how boreing and pendantic the game was. I had mentioned in a previous thread that Pnp games are as different from computer games, as books are from movies. They are not the same thing and I truly appreciate the developers for realizing this and responding accordingly.
Celantra, my hat's off to you. Couldnt' have said it better myself.
A warlock sounds like it'd be fun. I wonder though if they wouldn't get a secondary version of rogue, cleric, and wizard out first to complement the two warriors.
0
aavariusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
I could pretty easily see a Battle Cleric that focuses on frontline fighting/tanking, a War Wizard that focuses on DPS, and some sort of Sharpshooter Rogue. I'm not sure how much those archetypes are stepping on the toes of classes already in the pipeline, but so long as they each had a unique spin on the mechanics I feel like they could stand as their own classes.
There has been a lot of talk about how this game is not like the PnP D&D. I have to say, "Thank god." I dont want my computer game to be like a PnP game. I want the flavor without the overhead. I want a computer game to play well, provide solid combat experience, give me a chance to imerse myself in the world provided, and most of all I want to have fun. From what I have played so far, this game delivers in spades.
I am confident that they will deliver new classes over time. I am confident that they will do this within the confines of what they can offer based upon thier business model and schedule. I expect that they will treat the playerbase with respect, and while I would really like better communications then what we have today, Cryptic is no worse that any other development house creating MMO games out there in that reguard.
I think that to expect an MMO that mimics the 4E rules exactly and copies the mechanisums of a PnP game is unrealistic and simply not possible. If it were then we would all complain how boreing and pendantic the game was. I had mentioned in a previous thread that Pnp games are as different from computer games, as books are from movies. They are not the same thing and I truly appreciate the developers for realizing this and responding accordingly.
You must have had GREAT experiences with cryptic in the past. Many have not. When I speak of Neverwinter to others I hear 2 things all the time. Over priced F2P items and Disrespect to the players from the company. I doubt we will see 3 new classes and races by fall. 1 or 2 for sure. They will announce the next class/race at the 4-6 week mark to keep people interested but I suspect from there they will encourage player made content and let the game sit like STO.
The Class Forum contains Barracks, Temple, Thieves Den, and Library. I hope some of the new classes might include "hybrids" like Swordmage. I keep hearing Paladins are coming. Which Class Forum would they belong in?
I posted those lists on the beta forums, I heard Half-Orc was talked about
But Dragonborn exists, there are Character Creation files and body parts listed.
There are Half-Orc body parts listed too, but nothing I've seen for Character Creation.
Drow from the city of Menzoberranzan are raised in a world of lies and treachery. The noble houses of these dark elves are in constant conflict, vying for power and the favor of their evil goddess, Lolth the Spider Queen.
Sometimes a drow tires of the constant strife. Others see through the corrupt dogma of the Way of Lolth and seek a better way. There is no place within Menzoberranzan society for such drow and when discovered are branded as renegades, outcast from their house, and exiled from the city
----
Sometimes a drow tires of the constant strife. Others see through the corrupt dogma of the Way of Lolth and seek a better way. There is no place within Menzoberranzan society for such drow and when discovered are branded as renegades, outcast from their house, and exiled from the city
I agree Guardian and great weapon fighter should just be the fighter class.
I agree. I would much rather have a base, general class and specialize in what I want, than have specialized off-shots of general classes that only get variantions for spec trees within their own specialties but don't let you get trully creative with your character. Unfortunately, they would sell less classes that way.
And despite anything they may have said to the contrary in the past I seriously doub that they wouldn't charge for new classes. That doesn't sound like what Cryptic would do in my experience and they already sort of sell classes in CO.
Despite that I do not mind the idea of them selling classes and they seem like one of the things I might be willing to buy. And in fact I'd rather have that than have them focus on customization exclusively just so that people don't feel like the game is P2W. I hate that every time the subject of F2P monetization is brought up cosmetic customization gets thrown to the forefront as the one thing people that aren't even primarily interested on customization to begin with are willing to sacrifice just so they don't have to pay for performance or other features like classes.
As a customization-centric player I'm tired of being expected to carry most of the bulk of the game's financial support by having cosmetic options be one of the few things a game is allowed to charge real money for just so that competitive players can play for free and not have to pay for so called "pay to win" elements in the game. I don't mind paying for costumes and such, but I've heard that they're apparently turning customization into AD sinks by charging AD every single time you try to change the appearance of any piece of gear, and that dyes might also have similar costs.
So that customization-centric players like me, who like to have a collection of "outfits" with many styles and varieties for different occassions and such have to blow our special currency (which can be exchanged for zen [which in turn costs real money] and vice versa, and might also be necessary for other stuff in the game) every single time we try to change our clothing/armor appearance or color.
Games need more that just one group of people pouring money into them in order to survive. Focusing on customization exclusively is not only unfair to customization players but also detrimental to the game in the long run. If we're all playing this game we should all be chipping in. Not just those of us that like to play dress up.
And to people worried about having to pay for new classes. Believe me, having to pay for classes is the one thing that comes close to a guarantee that you'll eventually get the class that you want because Cryptic won't have an incentive to make it for you otherwise. Does Cryptic occasionally throw free stuff our way in their other games? Sure they do... occassionally. But as someone that has been a long time CO player costumer of Cryptic I can assure you that Cryptic WILL NOT FOCUS ON MAKING STUFF THEY WILL NOT SELL.
Tell them that you want to buy new classes. That's the only sure way you'll get a steady influx of them.
Fans of D&D want a bloody D&D game. That is what many people have issues with.
I actually agree with this and this was my hope as well. When I play a D&D I want to play something that resembles D&D. And I don't believe that this is just me, but what most D&D fans want. I think that D&D players don't like it when games deviate too much from D&D core systems and tend to prefer games that are true to the system.
You must have had GREAT experiences with cryptic in the past. Many have not. When I speak of Neverwinter to others I hear 2 things all the time. Over priced F2P items and Disrespect to the players from the company. I doubt we will see 3 new classes and races by fall. 1 or 2 for sure. They will announce the next class/race at the 4-6 week mark to keep people interested but I suspect from there they will encourage player made content and let the game sit like STO.
I have had good and bad experiences. But I prefer to wait and see what will happen, not just put arbitrary dates to something that I have no clue as to the plans for. That is why I add the line that they will offer what they can based upon their business models and schedule.
As far as STO goes. I still very much enjoy it. Oh and STO has had a major content upgrade every 3-6 months since launch. It may not be what you think is important, but there is a great deal of effort going into keeping STO an active and thriving game. I dont agree that all of Cryptics efforts are based upon what the audience wants most but having been on the inside of many development efforts there is aways a difference between what the customer wants and what can be realistically be delivered given costs, time, and resources.
We all see the tip of a very large ice burg. Lack of communication makes it look like we are being ignored, but what is happening is that what can be delivered given the business model is being delivered. If you dont like it, dont play, but dont for a second make the people that work hard to deliver enviornments for us all to play in; the bad guys. Instead, if we were to support them and try to help, things might get better, or they might get worse. Either way I will continue to think positively and try to help where I can.
Maybe try to walk, not a mile, but just a few feet in the shoes of the developers and support persons involved in bringing us our entertainment. Then just have fun with it, if your not then why bother. Im not going to pay for a game that I dont enjoy. If you dont enjoy it dont pay for it. Oh wait, its free. Unless you feel like getting a few extra little things out of thier shop to help support the effort. I dont think I have ever went into a movie and had them say. Oh just pay us on the way out, oh and only if you liked it. Come on guys, lets get some perspective.
What are we all complaining about? I few classes that will most likely get added in a few months. If they don't, so what. They commited the crime of not including my favorite class in this first set of five as well. But I'll tell you what. I had a blast playing the ones this weekend. I guess I just want to say. Lets all take a step back and take a realistic look at whats going on.
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dracotamerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 26Arc User
edited February 2013
I hope we see MORE of the classic classes like the ones listed here...
I tried looking it up to no avail. Sounds like an interesting class.
This is from PHB1 (scourge=infernal warlock):
Warlocks channel arcane might wrested from primeval entities. They commune with infernal intelligences and fey spirits, scour enemies with potent blasts of eldritch power, and bedevil foes with hexing curses. Armed with esoteric secrets and dangerous lore, warlocks are clever and resourceful foes.
However you came to your arcane knowledge, you need not accept the poor reputation warlocks sometimes endure. You could be a libram-toting scholar captivated by ominous lore, a foot-loose wanderer searching for elusive ultimate truths, a devil-touched hunter using infernal spells to eliminate evil, or even a black-clad mercenary who uses sinister trappings to discourage prying strangers and unwanted attention. On the other hand, you could be a true diabolist using your gifts to tyrannize the weak
Dilige, et quod vis fac (Love, and do what you will)
I thought about posting a new thread, but I believe this is issue is being put on the down low as much as possible so I will just post here.
I thought lack of races would be the #1 complaint post beta weekend but mmorpg and other sites even tollbiscuit have spoken out about the dismal amount of classes. MMORPG had this to say.
Cryptic has taken what is offered and made it something wildly fun. Combat is engaging and strategic. The animations and effects look terrific as well. It’s certainly a high point of the weekend. But even so saying, without some of the most beloved character classes missing, it rang a bit hollow.
As I wandered the streets of Neverwinter, I keenly felt the absence of the Ranger, generally my go-to class in all things D&D. Others taking part in the weekend also probably felt the absence of their favorite class as well. With three of the five being in the game, it felt very much ‘the same’ and only two more classes coming on release won’t make it feel much different. Because of this, new questions were raised including:
• What other classes will be forthcoming?
• How long will we have to wait to see new classes in the game?
With D&D’s long history with fans and players, Cryptic Studios is going to have to stay on the ball with regard to the questions above. There will be little tolerance for such limited classes with such rich and detailed lore behind the setting. The longer the delay before seeing new classes enter the game, the more likely players will be to leave.
The lack of classes and the Lack of communication is potentialy the show stopper here. No one likes clones and the lack of classes in SWTOR was one of the meny big issues and complaints by the players. If I were cryptic I would take WHATEVER extra work they have on classes that won't be in launch and I would put them up on a coming soon list. They NEED to communicate with us that the added classes are in fact coming and being worked on.
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
GF is a Defender, GWF id a Striker. Apple, meet Orange.
In PnP they're both defenders.
But that's because Guardian and Great Weapon are just -OPTIONAL- builds (suggested feats and powers chosen at each level) for a class, they are not classes per se. The class is the Fighter, and it's still that way even in 4E.
Comments
"We'll add some after launch," most likely for a fee, isn't a reasonable explanation of anything other than Cryptic's greed.
Let's get back to the topic. No more comparing other games or talking about how great other games are. If you want to talk about other games, please use their forums or the Off Topic Forums. Furthermore, there is far too much "dissent" and "overly negative" comments being thrown around that are not constructive and are not conductive of community discussions. I'd rather not prune or lock this thread but I will be more than willing to start stripping out these types of replies and placing them in the Lower Depths.
Please do not respond to this post of mine, as that is in itself a violation of the Rules of Conduct. Please re-read these rules, as they may have changed since you last read them.
Thank you,
Zebular, Community Moderator
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I am confident that they will deliver new classes over time. I am confident that they will do this within the confines of what they can offer based upon thier business model and schedule. I expect that they will treat the playerbase with respect, and while I would really like better communications then what we have today, Cryptic is no worse that any other development house creating MMO games out there in that reguard.
I think that to expect an MMO that mimics the 4E rules exactly and copies the mechanisums of a PnP game is unrealistic and simply not possible. If it were then we would all complain how boreing and pendantic the game was. I had mentioned in a previous thread that Pnp games are as different from computer games, as books are from movies. They are not the same thing and I truly appreciate the developers for realizing this and responding accordingly.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Dragonborn would make sense as the first race to hit the store since it's probably going to be really popular amongst players who are new to D&D.
Can't say I care that much about them or Warlocks though.
Dragonborn would make more sense because Dragonborn and Genasi are only two races which are common in Faerun (4e) which have not been announced yet - not because of popularity but because of lore. Popularity-wise orc race will have more takers.
i'm guessing the ranger will be a actual ranged ranger not a rogue wannabe ;p
Celantra, my hat's off to you. Couldnt' have said it better myself.
Also, dragonborn?! Oooo! That's news to me
Well that explains the 8th race.
1.) Human
2.) Dwarf
3.) Elf
4.) Half-Elf
5.) Drow
6.) Tiefling
7.) Halfing
8.) Dragonborn
I was expecting Half-Orc but this is a twist.
They may be trying to fool u after naming them wrongly.
You must have had GREAT experiences with cryptic in the past. Many have not. When I speak of Neverwinter to others I hear 2 things all the time. Over priced F2P items and Disrespect to the players from the company. I doubt we will see 3 new classes and races by fall. 1 or 2 for sure. They will announce the next class/race at the 4-6 week mark to keep people interested but I suspect from there they will encourage player made content and let the game sit like STO.
But Dragonborn exists, there are Character Creation files and body parts listed.
There are Half-Orc body parts listed too, but nothing I've seen for Character Creation.
Lemme post the listings:
I agree. I would much rather have a base, general class and specialize in what I want, than have specialized off-shots of general classes that only get variantions for spec trees within their own specialties but don't let you get trully creative with your character. Unfortunately, they would sell less classes that way.
And despite anything they may have said to the contrary in the past I seriously doub that they wouldn't charge for new classes. That doesn't sound like what Cryptic would do in my experience and they already sort of sell classes in CO.
Despite that I do not mind the idea of them selling classes and they seem like one of the things I might be willing to buy. And in fact I'd rather have that than have them focus on customization exclusively just so that people don't feel like the game is P2W. I hate that every time the subject of F2P monetization is brought up cosmetic customization gets thrown to the forefront as the one thing people that aren't even primarily interested on customization to begin with are willing to sacrifice just so they don't have to pay for performance or other features like classes.
As a customization-centric player I'm tired of being expected to carry most of the bulk of the game's financial support by having cosmetic options be one of the few things a game is allowed to charge real money for just so that competitive players can play for free and not have to pay for so called "pay to win" elements in the game. I don't mind paying for costumes and such, but I've heard that they're apparently turning customization into AD sinks by charging AD every single time you try to change the appearance of any piece of gear, and that dyes might also have similar costs.
So that customization-centric players like me, who like to have a collection of "outfits" with many styles and varieties for different occassions and such have to blow our special currency (which can be exchanged for zen [which in turn costs real money] and vice versa, and might also be necessary for other stuff in the game) every single time we try to change our clothing/armor appearance or color.
Games need more that just one group of people pouring money into them in order to survive. Focusing on customization exclusively is not only unfair to customization players but also detrimental to the game in the long run. If we're all playing this game we should all be chipping in. Not just those of us that like to play dress up.
And to people worried about having to pay for new classes. Believe me, having to pay for classes is the one thing that comes close to a guarantee that you'll eventually get the class that you want because Cryptic won't have an incentive to make it for you otherwise. Does Cryptic occasionally throw free stuff our way in their other games? Sure they do... occassionally. But as someone that has been a long time CO player costumer of Cryptic I can assure you that Cryptic WILL NOT FOCUS ON MAKING STUFF THEY WILL NOT SELL.
Tell them that you want to buy new classes. That's the only sure way you'll get a steady influx of them.
PS: Sorry for the wall of text
I actually agree with this and this was my hope as well. When I play a D&D I want to play something that resembles D&D. And I don't believe that this is just me, but what most D&D fans want. I think that D&D players don't like it when games deviate too much from D&D core systems and tend to prefer games that are true to the system.
I tried looking it up to no avail. Sounds like an interesting class.
Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.
Warlock, strong dps much like a Rogue Trickster.
I have had good and bad experiences. But I prefer to wait and see what will happen, not just put arbitrary dates to something that I have no clue as to the plans for. That is why I add the line that they will offer what they can based upon their business models and schedule.
As far as STO goes. I still very much enjoy it. Oh and STO has had a major content upgrade every 3-6 months since launch. It may not be what you think is important, but there is a great deal of effort going into keeping STO an active and thriving game. I dont agree that all of Cryptics efforts are based upon what the audience wants most but having been on the inside of many development efforts there is aways a difference between what the customer wants and what can be realistically be delivered given costs, time, and resources.
We all see the tip of a very large ice burg. Lack of communication makes it look like we are being ignored, but what is happening is that what can be delivered given the business model is being delivered. If you dont like it, dont play, but dont for a second make the people that work hard to deliver enviornments for us all to play in; the bad guys. Instead, if we were to support them and try to help, things might get better, or they might get worse. Either way I will continue to think positively and try to help where I can.
Maybe try to walk, not a mile, but just a few feet in the shoes of the developers and support persons involved in bringing us our entertainment. Then just have fun with it, if your not then why bother. Im not going to pay for a game that I dont enjoy. If you dont enjoy it dont pay for it. Oh wait, its free. Unless you feel like getting a few extra little things out of thier shop to help support the effort. I dont think I have ever went into a movie and had them say. Oh just pay us on the way out, oh and only if you liked it. Come on guys, lets get some perspective.
What are we all complaining about? I few classes that will most likely get added in a few months. If they don't, so what. They commited the crime of not including my favorite class in this first set of five as well. But I'll tell you what. I had a blast playing the ones this weekend. I guess I just want to say. Lets all take a step back and take a realistic look at whats going on.
http://www.ign.com/wikis/neverwinter/Neverwinter_Classes
my firend that watched two hours of a live stream saw a bow drop and a nature skill was required so yay RAngers in at lauch maybe.
After, of course, you level up a character you don't want up to Lv 15! >.<
This is from PHB1 (scourge=infernal warlock):
Warlocks channel arcane might wrested from primeval entities. They commune with infernal intelligences and fey spirits, scour enemies with potent blasts of eldritch power, and bedevil foes with hexing curses. Armed with esoteric secrets and dangerous lore, warlocks are clever and resourceful foes.
However you came to your arcane knowledge, you need not accept the poor reputation warlocks sometimes endure. You could be a libram-toting scholar captivated by ominous lore, a foot-loose wanderer searching for elusive ultimate truths, a devil-touched hunter using infernal spells to eliminate evil, or even a black-clad mercenary who uses sinister trappings to discourage prying strangers and unwanted attention. On the other hand, you could be a true diabolist using your gifts to tyrannize the weak
St. Augustinus
I thought lack of races would be the #1 complaint post beta weekend but mmorpg and other sites even tollbiscuit have spoken out about the dismal amount of classes. MMORPG had this to say.
The lack of classes and the Lack of communication is potentialy the show stopper here. No one likes clones and the lack of classes in SWTOR was one of the meny big issues and complaints by the players. If I were cryptic I would take WHATEVER extra work they have on classes that won't be in launch and I would put them up on a coming soon list. They NEED to communicate with us that the added classes are in fact coming and being worked on.
In PnP they're both defenders.
But that's because Guardian and Great Weapon are just -OPTIONAL- builds (suggested feats and powers chosen at each level) for a class, they are not classes per se. The class is the Fighter, and it's still that way even in 4E.