Your argument is invalid. They are working at this game from 2010. So they had time to make 100 classes and races until now
Sure, if they spent a couple of weeks on each one then moved on. They'd have completely non-unique gameplay and animations, and items would have to be so generic that wide swings of min/maxing were impossible to prevent. All balance would be out the window, forever, and every melee DPS class would look like every other, and every control class would look like every other. Sounds pretty boring.
You've seen the videos. The different classes will have unique powers and animations, and be unique things to play. That's interesting. 100 generic classes isn't. That would be bad enough in a traditional turn-based MMO; in an action MMO, it would be instant death. It takes a lot of time and work to make something with unique gameplay, and in an action MMO, you don't have another choice; it's central to the concept.
Rumor is though that the Ranger that is supposedly in the works is a Duel-Wield Ranger and not an Archer. It seems that they are having trouble with Archer targetting or something but the Wizard is essentially the same with their ranged attacks so I really am puzzled.
Let's say I pick Control Wizard to start the game with, since it is the only arcane caster at the moment. Later they add the War Wizard or some such. Can I then respec my Control Wizard into a War Wizard with a respec token, or are they technically considered two different classes and the respec token will only work for different builds of them?
WoW development lasted 3 years like NW and the game had tons of content, tons of classes, 2 factions, lots of races and a huge map. All that in early 2000
WoW development lasted over 4 years, and since it is a traditional turn-based MMO under the covers, could get away with having generic attack animations where multiple classes swing a sword the same way. It also had triple the resources, and I don't think "tons of classes" and "lots of races" are really a very accurate picture of how it was at launch. Each faction only had three races at launch, and the classes heavily reused the same animations and gameplay, a luxury that an action MMO simply doesn't have.
A lot of things that are taken for granted in MMOs now weren't in it at launch, or didn't work properly for years, and that's again with triple the budget. The picture isn't as rosy as you make it out.
This is an age old topic, but 5 is limiting if they don't release classes in a reasonable amount of time. Like 3 months. This is something tricky, if they don't entice their players then people will leave and people will right off Neverwinter in the early stages. Happens in every MMO.
I would have thought a couple of classes would have been added with the extended development but looks like I was wrong.
3 months per new class? So like, 4 new classes a year? 20+ classes in 5 years? That seems rather excessive. I'd rather get maybe one a year that's a solid, well constructed, and colorful class, instead of getting a bunch of mediocre ones. Character customization is overrated because there's a percentage of the MMO population that just absolutely craves it, but consider that Diablo II online is nearly 13 years old, still going strong, and it not only also had 5 classes at launch, but it was always the same character. Diablo II is still going strong year after year because... it's a fun game.
WoW development lasted over 4 years, and since it is a traditional turn-based MMO under the covers, could get away with having generic attack animations where multiple classes swing a sword the same way. It also had triple the resources, and I don't think "tons of classes" and "lots of races" are really a very accurate picture of how it was at launch. Each faction only had three races at launch, and the classes heavily reused the same animations and gameplay, a luxury that an action MMO simply doesn't have.
A lot of things that are taken for granted in MMOs now weren't in it at launch, or didn't work properly for years, and that's again with triple the budget. The picture isn't as rosy as you make it out.
Thanks for clarifying. It's important for us armchair MMO game designers to keep up with the latest trends in the massively multiplayer industry.
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
You're welcome. And may I just add, your forum name cracks me up every single time I see it, and I suspect it will still be doing so for years.
Thanks! As much as I love blabbing my opinion in every single thread, do I try to not take myself that seriously, it's all in good fun. As if the name itself didn't give that away. Maybe I should put a disclaimer in my sig telling people not to take me that seriously... maybe I'll crimp ye olde 4chan: "The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
aw shoot, are my /b/tard roots showing?
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Thanks! As much as I love blabbing my opinion in every single thread, do I try to not take myself that seriously, it's all in good fun. As if the name itself didn't give that away. Maybe I should put a disclaimer in my sig telling people not to take me that seriously... maybe I'll crimp ye olde 4chan: "The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
aw shoot, are my /b/tard roots showing?
I'll compile it for the users running ID10T code here, which there still seem to be quite a few...
There are 5 classes at launch. Just that instead of having Ranger, we get 2 Figther based classes. That doesn't change that Ranger is stil on the works and hopefully, released long before Soon
At launch? If you mean Beta first weekend launch in February then you are likely correct only 5 classes. However earliest realistic release date is April and it can be much later release date. I believe this game will have 6-9 Classes when released. Therefore this poll is very good.
No way will they have these 5 classes at launch, what type of MMO will sit on there initial classes being. One handed warrior, Two handed warrior, rogue, ice mage and whatever the hell the other class is. These don't even seem like classes to me, they seem like sub-classes. Each on of these is like taking 1 tree in WoW's class system. Extremely limiting. I really hope these aren't the classes but sub-classes of a base class. Eg: You start off with the Warrior and can then choose a path into either the One handed spec or the two handed spec.
Yeah if you didn't realise, I am extremely confused about how the classes will work in this game!?! XD
At launch? If you mean Beta first weekend launch in February then you are likely correct only 5 classes. However earliest realistic release date is April and it can be much later release date. I believe this game will have 6-9 Classes when released. Therefore this poll is very good.
We can also expect more classes post launch.
Calling your expectations "realistic" is risky business. If Cryptic can add any new class to the launch (there is only one launch, which is the release with some Early Access just before), they will add them but only if they are finished, balanced,... But you seem to expect between one and four extra classes by launch. Seriously. I'd vote for some kind of ranger to be in the realm of possibility, but four extra classes? In two months? (plus any possible secret previous development time)
If the game launches with 9 classes, I'd certainly not complain. But considering how I won't rush max level any time soon, five classes should last me a while, while I wait for some of my favourite classes to be added.
Post launch we will obviously get more than the five already promisd classes. And more than seven promised races. And patches to fix bugs. XD
Edit: for the record, I should mention that in the poll, I voted for all the options except the last one. Wishing is free.
Guild Wars 2 was released to universal acclaim. It received a score of 90.26% on GameRankings[42] and 90/100 on Metacritic.[43] PC Gamer editor Chris Thursten gave the game a 94% rating, calling it "an accomplished and rewarding online RPG that does a great deal to reclaim the promise of its genre."[50] IGN's Charles Onyett rated the game a 9/10, commenting that the game is "one of the most exhaustively detailed and rewarding MMOs in existence, one that never unfairly penalizes and fosters an incredible urge to explore through a generous reward system and achingly pretty environment design".
Not only my oppinion. The game was really epic. Huge maps, unique events, fun gameplay, diversified quest, excelent graphics, etc.
The discution is not about GW2
And it's my fault that WoW had better budget ? This means I have to lift to the rank of legendary a game that until now has proven nothing only because it's a D&D universe ?
So epic that everyone I play with and myself crushed all available content in less than a month. Yeah, that's my definition of epic.
So epic that everyone I play with and myself crushed all available content in less than a month. Yeah, that's my definition of epic.
While my play time in GW2 has dwindled to less then a couple hours of week you got to admit the things they did were pretty darn impressive. I do agree with the lack of content though and a UGC system would do amazing things for that game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Character is what a man is in the dark
I say get the core classes like the barbarian, bard, paladin, druid, huntard, warlock, and whatever other core classes I missed in there pronto then go for the more exotic ones.
3 months per new class? So like, 4 new classes a year? 20+ classes in 5 years? That seems rather excessive. I'd rather get maybe one a year that's a solid, well constructed, and colorful class, instead of getting a bunch of mediocre ones. Character customization is overrated because there's a percentage of the MMO population that just absolutely craves it, but consider that Diablo II online is nearly 13 years old, still going strong, and it not only also had 5 classes at launch, but it was always the same character. Diablo II is still going strong year after year because... it's a fun game.
And yet look at diablo 3's success and not to mention the game and mechanics are completely different than D&D. Fun game but what was their population number? How is it that it was not just the die hard fans that kept playing? Diablo had a severe gear treadmill mechanic, replay value isn't all that great in the Diablo games. Great story and everything but not a long lasting thing for many.
One of D&D main attractions is character builds, take a look at DDO.
As far as class additions, I'm not saying that a class should be added every 3 months. I'm saying that the first batch should be added at that time which should include a couple of classes. But after that it can be more length interval additions for the more exotic ones.
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denkasaebaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I say get the core classes like the barbarian, bard, paladin, druid, huntard, warlock, and whatever other core classes I missed in there pronto then go for the more exotic ones.
Actually Warlord is a core class in 4e, since it's in the PHB. Bard, Barb and Druid are not (but i guess they won't base their definition of "core" on Wizards' manuals).
Dilige, et quod vis fac (Love, and do what you will)
Actually Warlord is a core class in 4e, since it's in the PHB. Bard, Barb and Druid are not (but i guess they won't base their definition of "core" on Wizards' manuals).
+1 to that. Warlords were in the core.
Im a bit surprised at lack of ranger and paladin though. Drizzt. Holy Avenger. They are rather iconic. Even EQ went out far enough to make sure there was an omgpaladinswordofjustice at release.
Indeed, as stated, in 4e Warlords were a core class.
I can understand why they don't what to try it first, its based on re-positioning enemies and buffing allies. Those would be difficult to implement. Its just one of my favorite classes, as re-positioning and buffing are my personal cup of tea.
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darkcinnamonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10Arc User
Count me in as one of the stubborn people who won't even give this game a second look until there is a paladin.
Playing Great Weapon Fighter now, but really would have loved to play a Paladin as my main. I am starting to feel like you. I may shelve the game until they release the paladin class...
Starting off I want this game to succeed, but only having 5 starting class's seams a little low especially for D&D style mmo.
Where are all the other great class's Ranger's Warlocks Paladin's Druids....
How can you mention Drizzt sooo much and not have ranger's...
Im not trying to rant just wanna know what other peoples opinion is on this and hopefully with a pole show the devs people want more choice.
Five classes? I only count three viable classes at level 60: Cleric, Rogue and Wizard... I heard there are two more but are not viable at level 60 and you want to add more before fixing them?
Comments
Sure, if they spent a couple of weeks on each one then moved on. They'd have completely non-unique gameplay and animations, and items would have to be so generic that wide swings of min/maxing were impossible to prevent. All balance would be out the window, forever, and every melee DPS class would look like every other, and every control class would look like every other. Sounds pretty boring.
You've seen the videos. The different classes will have unique powers and animations, and be unique things to play. That's interesting. 100 generic classes isn't. That would be bad enough in a traditional turn-based MMO; in an action MMO, it would be instant death. It takes a lot of time and work to make something with unique gameplay, and in an action MMO, you don't have another choice; it's central to the concept.
Let's say I pick Control Wizard to start the game with, since it is the only arcane caster at the moment. Later they add the War Wizard or some such. Can I then respec my Control Wizard into a War Wizard with a respec token, or are they technically considered two different classes and the respec token will only work for different builds of them?
WoW development lasted over 4 years, and since it is a traditional turn-based MMO under the covers, could get away with having generic attack animations where multiple classes swing a sword the same way. It also had triple the resources, and I don't think "tons of classes" and "lots of races" are really a very accurate picture of how it was at launch. Each faction only had three races at launch, and the classes heavily reused the same animations and gameplay, a luxury that an action MMO simply doesn't have.
A lot of things that are taken for granted in MMOs now weren't in it at launch, or didn't work properly for years, and that's again with triple the budget. The picture isn't as rosy as you make it out.
I remember that original pic and fully thought the Warlock when I saw the Tiefling silouette.
3 months per new class? So like, 4 new classes a year? 20+ classes in 5 years? That seems rather excessive. I'd rather get maybe one a year that's a solid, well constructed, and colorful class, instead of getting a bunch of mediocre ones. Character customization is overrated because there's a percentage of the MMO population that just absolutely craves it, but consider that Diablo II online is nearly 13 years old, still going strong, and it not only also had 5 classes at launch, but it was always the same character. Diablo II is still going strong year after year because... it's a fun game.
Thanks for clarifying. It's important for us armchair MMO game designers to keep up with the latest trends in the massively multiplayer industry.
To be quite honest a bow and arow user not beng in at lauch is quite shocking.....
You're welcome. And may I just add, your forum name cracks me up every single time I see it, and I suspect it will still be doing so for years.
Thanks! As much as I love blabbing my opinion in every single thread, do I try to not take myself that seriously, it's all in good fun. As if the name itself didn't give that away. Maybe I should put a disclaimer in my sig telling people not to take me that seriously... maybe I'll crimp ye olde 4chan: "The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
aw shoot, are my /b/tard roots showing?
I'll compile it for the users running ID10T code here, which there still seem to be quite a few...
Your handle still makes me smile...
At launch? If you mean Beta first weekend launch in February then you are likely correct only 5 classes. However earliest realistic release date is April and it can be much later release date. I believe this game will have 6-9 Classes when released. Therefore this poll is very good.
We can also expect more classes post launch.
Yeah if you didn't realise, I am extremely confused about how the classes will work in this game!?! XD
If the game launches with 9 classes, I'd certainly not complain. But considering how I won't rush max level any time soon, five classes should last me a while, while I wait for some of my favourite classes to be added.
Post launch we will obviously get more than the five already promisd classes. And more than seven promised races. And patches to fix bugs. XD
Edit: for the record, I should mention that in the poll, I voted for all the options except the last one. Wishing is free.
So epic that everyone I play with and myself crushed all available content in less than a month. Yeah, that's my definition of epic.
Character is what a man is in the dark
While my play time in GW2 has dwindled to less then a couple hours of week you got to admit the things they did were pretty darn impressive. I do agree with the lack of content though and a UGC system would do amazing things for that game.
Character is what a man is in the dark
+1 indeed me too
While i don't really like the warlord class, i'd like to see it too. I'd like much more to see melee cleric, though.
St. Augustinus
I say get the core classes like the barbarian, bard, paladin, druid, huntard, warlock, and whatever other core classes I missed in there pronto then go for the more exotic ones.
And yet look at diablo 3's success and not to mention the game and mechanics are completely different than D&D. Fun game but what was their population number? How is it that it was not just the die hard fans that kept playing? Diablo had a severe gear treadmill mechanic, replay value isn't all that great in the Diablo games. Great story and everything but not a long lasting thing for many.
One of D&D main attractions is character builds, take a look at DDO.
As far as class additions, I'm not saying that a class should be added every 3 months. I'm saying that the first batch should be added at that time which should include a couple of classes. But after that it can be more length interval additions for the more exotic ones.
Actually Warlord is a core class in 4e, since it's in the PHB. Bard, Barb and Druid are not (but i guess they won't base their definition of "core" on Wizards' manuals).
St. Augustinus
+1 to that. Warlords were in the core.
Im a bit surprised at lack of ranger and paladin though. Drizzt. Holy Avenger. They are rather iconic. Even EQ went out far enough to make sure there was an omgpaladinswordofjustice at release.
I can understand why they don't what to try it first, its based on re-positioning enemies and buffing allies. Those would be difficult to implement. Its just one of my favorite classes, as re-positioning and buffing are my personal cup of tea.
if i had to guess...so they can stagger the release of them and charge us for them...
Playing Great Weapon Fighter now, but really would have loved to play a Paladin as my main. I am starting to feel like you. I may shelve the game until they release the paladin class...
Five classes? I only count three viable classes at level 60: Cleric, Rogue and Wizard... I heard there are two more but are not viable at level 60 and you want to add more before fixing them?