ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited January 2013
Anyways I'd love to see an open-world PvP server but that seems highly unlikely looking over the server structure of existing Cryptic and PWE games. Right now I'm hoping for:
PvP player controlled battlegrounds (different groups players vie for control over territory)
PvP dungeons (different groups of players compete against each other in a PvE setting dungeon)
Foundry PvP missions so that DMs can create their own objectives
A ranked Ladder system for PvP groups to compete with each other.
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muzrub333Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
Easy Ranncore, I am not your enemy. The title didn't ask what only people who enjoy PvP Hope/Think; excuse me for posting my thoughts on an open forum. Like I said, I am ALL FOR PVP, as long as I can avoid it. Jeebus!
Glad I came back; guess this forum is still full of people trying to drive others off.
Faction based pvp could work well in this title. Weather its game factions or player factions or a combination of the two.
While my favorite mmo that had pvp was daoc where realm vs realm pvp occured in the frontiers of each of the three realms. Not sure this would work in this title.
The best of the pvp oriented mmos pvp meant something weather it was taking keeps and towers in a frontier or taking ground from an enemy faction.
iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
Hate to ruin the duel talk, but in a moment of real discussion on PvP gaming...
My complaint with DAoC wasn't anything with the game per se, just that it was so successful it caused virtually every othr MMO for countless years to copy them and decide everybody should have PvP as end game and two to three faction wars. IMHO, it limited the development of PvP indirectly by having all the people try to clone it and make a quick buck, and often failing.
Yes it did too well is my complaint.
I'd love more options like team PvP, capture the flag without guarding your own flag options and multi-stage accomplishment PvP team options. Pretty much a lot of times I see only one on one or deathmatch only and am looking for more than than or domination options. Star Trek Online had some interesting selections at times, but it was still the two faction thing. Oh well, if I don't like what they offer, it's not mandatory. And if I do, I'll see you all on the battlefield of glory!
If I am lucky, it will be so insignificant that I won't even know it's in the game.
-Rule of Acquisition #113: Always have sex with the boss.
-I am one of the many victims from the hijacked Caspian Division.
I will not let the childish acts of a criminal ruin this game for me.
-The actions of Cryptic, on the other hand......
A warring system won't be made in Neverwinter. That's for PvP focused games like EVE. This is a PvE based game with PvP elements.
What I would like to see is faction PvP. By faction I mean NPC factions like Red Wizards of Thay or the Harpers or Thieves Guild or whatever orders or guilds are around in 4e competing against each other. Neverwinter is a setting of a drive for power and a perfect setting for some good PvP elements.
That is not entirely true, the first Neverwinter Nights had a ton of servers that had open PvP and it was a blast. The community RPed barbarians, and the sort and most people would not just randomly kill. That would be hard to get in a F2P game though.
Yes largely it does depend on the person not the feature as any <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> can ruin a dungeon run. However as demonknight has said "balance issues" are a big problem. My only gripe really is D&D pnp rpg is all about PVE, the DM would never encourage players to attack to kill each other. You PVPers have enough games, I just dont want the incorporation of a game dynamic that doesnt really feel like it has a place in this game ruin the experince for others i.e forced PVP or gear/build balancing.
That's not true either, the group I use to play with would have random events sometimes that involved us fighting each other. DnD perfectly suits it if thought and background is put into it.
That is not entirely true, the first Neverwinter Nights had a ton of servers that had open PvP and it was a blast. The community RPed barbarians, and the sort and most people would not just randomly kill. That would be hard to get in a F2P game though.
That's not true either, the group I use to play with would have random events sometimes that involved us fighting each other. DnD perfectly suits it if thought and background is put into it.
The most memorable PnP sessions for me were always the ones that put player's goals and motives at odds against each other. Our players were almost always quarreling with each other. I'd hate to miss that experience in this game.
I mean, haven't you ever had a paladin and a rogue in the same group?
The most memorable PnP sessions for me were always the ones that put player's goals and motives at odds against each other. Our players were almost always quarreling with each other. I'd hate to miss that experience in this game.
I mean, haven't you ever had a paladin and a rogue in the same group?
Exactly . Man I miss being able to play DnD(none of my current friends will).
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
Thanks for the tip, didn't realize they did that type of thing in stores. I will have to check one out .
Unfortunately WotC cancelled production for their own in-house software called virtual table top, but there's a variety of other programs that users... use... to run their campaigns.
It should be easy to find a group on the WotC website running one of these online campaigns, but if you're interested and can't find a link, just let me know.
Hate to ruin the duel talk, but in a moment of real discussion on PvP gaming...
My complaint with DAoC wasn't anything with the game per se, just that it was so successful it caused virtually every othr MMO for countless years to copy them and decide everybody should have PvP as end game and two to three faction wars. IMHO, it limited the development of PvP indirectly by having all the people try to clone it and make a quick buck, and often failing.
Yes it did too well is my complaint.
I'd love more options like team PvP, capture the flag without guarding your own flag options and multi-stage accomplishment PvP team options. Pretty much a lot of times I see only one on oIn WoW on a RP server, ne or deathmatch only and am looking for more than than or domination options. Star Trek Online had some interesting selections at times, but it was still the two faction thing. Oh well, if I don't like what they offer, it's not mandatory. And if I do, I'll see you all on the battlefield of glory!
I never really got into RVR again after I quit DAoC, this was pretty unique. But it was never the same since ToA, people were not grouping up to raid keeps but started raiding monster all the time to get/level the items.
They created with Warhammer Online another great PVP title with factions etc. I really enjoyed playing and follow the game through the story while growing up, always fighting stupid high elves, dwarfs etc. If the opposite side raided enough areas and sieged the city, it was closed for everyone on the server who wants to i.e. go to the auctionhouse, so you had to help defend the city.
If you really want to permant kill other people with some story behind it, then Warhammer Online would be a great game. Even there is the Ex-WoW-Faction and runs into raid-dungeons instead of raiding the enemy.
As for here, I hope there will be safe zones like in DAoC or some system where people can flag themselves volutarily as PVP and can be attacked by any other player (which is funny with friendly fire in a group ).
p.s. it gives plenty more thrill to play on an open-PVP server, though :mad:
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That is not entirely true, the first Neverwinter Nights had a ton of servers that had open PvP and it was a blast. The community RPed barbarians, and the sort and most people would not just randomly kill. That would be hard to get in a F2P game though.
That's not true either, the group I use to play with would have random events sometimes that involved us fighting each other. DnD perfectly suits it if thought and background is put into it.
Again, this will be a single server shard system. There will not be multiple servers or persistent worlds. While developers have wish-listed non-instanced Foundry player modules and PvP Foundry modules these are just that, wish-listed and are NOT showing up in PvP launch. They already delayed this from August 2012's announcement for the lend of 2012 to early 2013 just to make sure PvP would be in launch as well as having all the features tested and polished, so don't expect them to "delay it to do this." Such add-ons would take six months at best.
Unfortunately WotC cancelled production for their own in-house software called virtual table top, but there's a variety of other programs that users... use... to run their campaigns.
It should be easy to find a group on the WotC website running one of these online campaigns, but if you're interested and can't find a link, just let me know.
I am happy to say the virtual table is here, but you have to also register with Game Table Online.
Other Game systems like roll 20 and Fantasy Grounds and the harder to use but powerful none the less Maptools have us virtual gamers playing D&D too.
iamdoctordeathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
As there's going to be no separate servers- obviously that rules out open world pvp... unless of course it's a simple flagging system for everyone so people that don't want to don't have to get involved.
I don't disagree with what many people are saying though- that pvp ruins games. It isn't even the pvp balancing ruining pve- it's the intense negativity and the way pvp tanks a game's reputation.
It doesn't matter how well you do the rest of the game- if you do the pvp poorly the pvp crowd will simply drown out any positive reviews with a bloodthirst for seeing the game fail in every way. People are much more patient and willing to put up with problems and imbalances for everything else- and even pve, which is generally a bigger part of the game than pvp is, tends to have considerably more positive forums.
I just have not seen a single mmo where the pvp forums were anything but a cesspool of misery and hatred- and it has hurt mmos harshly.
I should note I am saying this as someone who pvps at least twice as much as I pve- who in TOR has 4 characters between 40-80 valor level yet still hasn't seen a quarter of the regular flashpoints. I'm a pvper- I spend a lot of time with pvpers in game, and on pvp forums- pvp makes games ugly, and while indeed it can bring in a crowd- if you don't do it well it will nullify anything else in the game that's good.
So, PWE, I'll say two things about pvp that I think you need to do before you consider putting it in.
1- It has to be balanced and thought out. It cannot be a stunfest or have two shotting, and it cannot have one class with insane burst damage, amazing defensives/dodges- while another has next to no burst and crumples like a wet paper bag. You also have to consider your pvp objectives- having most fights taking half a minute will work great for team deathmatch- but will not work in a match where you need to take a node and have 20 second rez timers.
2- Don't let flame wars get out of hand. If you let people think they can endlessly troll-bait, flame each other, and flood the forums with threads trashing the game- that's what your front page is going to look like. There's a difference between constructive critism, which is something you both want and should respond to, and pointless whining.
I'll also add to this- if you need to nerf or buff something- consider how that'll change the dynamics. If you feel like ability A isn't being used by a class while everyone's using ability B- the solution probably isn't nerfing B into the ground while leaving A as is- chances are just as good that people aren't using A because it sucks as they are that B is too powerful, and I'm tired of having a decent class ruined because a dev team decided a vital ability was too strong so everyone was speccing it, but ignored how bad the other abilities were.
What makes Lineage 2 one of the best MMORPGs ever?
Apsollutly free PVP, you can pvp anytime, anywhere... but if you kill someone that didn't respond to your attack you get Karma and your name becomes red (and very visible). If anyone kills you while you have karma, there is a possibility that you will drop some of your equipment, money or inventory items. To get karma off yourself you need to kill tons of creatures. If someone kills you, you lose karma too, but if you kill someone while having karma on yourself your karma counter will increase and became even harder to get it off.
This simple rule made L2 pvp and pve game in the same time. No one would engage in pvp without a good reason, cause consequences can be very devastaitng I would love to see something like that in Neverwinter.
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cael450Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 21Arc User
edited January 2013
Being an avid pvp fan I have to say I would be happy with instanced battles, like WAR, and a duel system. Like others have said this isn't, and shouldn't, be a pvp centric game.
Gladiator style battle arenas fit perfectly with the setting IMO. I would like to see a betting system where players can voluntarily put money or equipment up for grabs depending on the outcome of a match or duel. They do something like this in borderlands 2 where you can chose to fight for items in the trade menu. And I really hope one day far down the line they will implement pvp foundry maps. That is what originally made counter strike such an awesome fps after all. Old school cs maps are still some of the most balanced and entertaining fps maps in existence.
On a slightly off topic note I would really like if some games would include in their micro transaction system the ability to donate towards specific features. Like a mini kickstarter system where I could donate money towards items on cryptic's wish list to help them prioritize and afford further development after the initial burst of post launch activity subsides. This would allow cryptic to pitch some future content or features to the playerbase that they want to include but may lack the funding for.
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laseausMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Originally Posted by demonknight33
My personal hopes for the PvP system are that it is non-existant, but seeing as that is unlikely to happen, I just hope that whatever system they add doesn't result in a negative impact on the PvE content.
Couldnt agree more. PVP and PvPers have reunied enough games.
This. My hope is for no pvp whatsoever. Barring that, I hope it's relegated out of sight on separate maps where I don't even have to think about its existence.
This. My hope is for no pvp whatsoever. Barring that, I hope it's relegated out of sight on separate maps where I don't even have to think about its existence.
Wish granted!
*sends an illithid on laseaus's way so he may never realize PvP is in the game*
besides if you exclude pvp, then take for example tabula rasa...which is dead and gone, nothing wrong with a some pvp imo, even when i wanted to pve i never minder a fight here and there, but thats me
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Thankfully they have affirmed that there will be a robust PvP system.
I'm hoping for the ability to flag my characters for open-world PvP as there will not be an open world PvP server.
Cryptic uses a single server world system with multiple public instance zones so no world PvP, so any multi player qued up is instanced. I've just mentioned all we know of NW's PvP system publicly however. At least it's more than crafting!
Comments
PvP player controlled battlegrounds (different groups players vie for control over territory)
PvP dungeons (different groups of players compete against each other in a PvE setting dungeon)
Foundry PvP missions so that DMs can create their own objectives
A ranked Ladder system for PvP groups to compete with each other.
Glad I came back; guess this forum is still full of people trying to drive others off.
While my favorite mmo that had pvp was daoc where realm vs realm pvp occured in the frontiers of each of the three realms. Not sure this would work in this title.
The best of the pvp oriented mmos pvp meant something weather it was taking keeps and towers in a frontier or taking ground from an enemy faction.
I don't like PvP and neither should you. If you disagree lets have a duel.
*Throws glove*
throws glove lol.
What are your last words, thou qualling swag-bellied flirt-gill?
(http://www.pangloss.com/seidel/Shaker/ shakespeare insult generator, good stuff
I throw French at you for trash talking.
Now go away or I shall insult you for a second time!
But you know how that fight ended!
I WILL find the grail!
Just remember to bring two of the weapons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKrei80jBg8
My complaint with DAoC wasn't anything with the game per se, just that it was so successful it caused virtually every othr MMO for countless years to copy them and decide everybody should have PvP as end game and two to three faction wars. IMHO, it limited the development of PvP indirectly by having all the people try to clone it and make a quick buck, and often failing.
Yes it did too well is my complaint.
I'd love more options like team PvP, capture the flag without guarding your own flag options and multi-stage accomplishment PvP team options. Pretty much a lot of times I see only one on one or deathmatch only and am looking for more than than or domination options. Star Trek Online had some interesting selections at times, but it was still the two faction thing. Oh well, if I don't like what they offer, it's not mandatory. And if I do, I'll see you all on the battlefield of glory!
-Rule of Acquisition #113: Always have sex with the boss.
-I am one of the many victims from the hijacked Caspian Division.
I will not let the childish acts of a criminal ruin this game for me.
-The actions of Cryptic, on the other hand......
That is not entirely true, the first Neverwinter Nights had a ton of servers that had open PvP and it was a blast. The community RPed barbarians, and the sort and most people would not just randomly kill. That would be hard to get in a F2P game though.
That's not true either, the group I use to play with would have random events sometimes that involved us fighting each other. DnD perfectly suits it if thought and background is put into it.
The what ? Best what? In d&d ? :eek:
The most memorable PnP sessions for me were always the ones that put player's goals and motives at odds against each other. Our players were almost always quarreling with each other. I'd hate to miss that experience in this game.
I mean, haven't you ever had a paladin and a rogue in the same group?
Exactly
Maybe you should head to the WotC website, they run online campaigns there.
Thanks for the tip, didn't realize they did that type of thing in stores. I will have to check one out
Unfortunately WotC cancelled production for their own in-house software called virtual table top, but there's a variety of other programs that users... use... to run their campaigns.
It should be easy to find a group on the WotC website running one of these online campaigns, but if you're interested and can't find a link, just let me know.
I never really got into RVR again after I quit DAoC, this was pretty unique. But it was never the same since ToA, people were not grouping up to raid keeps but started raiding monster all the time to get/level the items.
They created with Warhammer Online another great PVP title with factions etc. I really enjoyed playing and follow the game through the story while growing up, always fighting stupid high elves, dwarfs etc. If the opposite side raided enough areas and sieged the city, it was closed for everyone on the server who wants to i.e. go to the auctionhouse, so you had to help defend the city.
If you really want to permant kill other people with some story behind it, then Warhammer Online would be a great game. Even there is the Ex-WoW-Faction and runs into raid-dungeons instead of raiding the enemy.
As for here, I hope there will be safe zones like in DAoC or some system where people can flag themselves volutarily as PVP and can be attacked by any other player (which is funny with friendly fire in a group
p.s. it gives plenty more thrill to play on an open-PVP server, though :mad:
Again, this will be a single server shard system. There will not be multiple servers or persistent worlds. While developers have wish-listed non-instanced Foundry player modules and PvP Foundry modules these are just that, wish-listed and are NOT showing up in PvP launch. They already delayed this from August 2012's announcement for the lend of 2012 to early 2013 just to make sure PvP would be in launch as well as having all the features tested and polished, so don't expect them to "delay it to do this." Such add-ons would take six months at best.
I am happy to say the virtual table is here, but you have to also register with Game Table Online.
Other Game systems like roll 20 and Fantasy Grounds and the harder to use but powerful none the less Maptools have us virtual gamers playing D&D too.
I don't disagree with what many people are saying though- that pvp ruins games. It isn't even the pvp balancing ruining pve- it's the intense negativity and the way pvp tanks a game's reputation.
It doesn't matter how well you do the rest of the game- if you do the pvp poorly the pvp crowd will simply drown out any positive reviews with a bloodthirst for seeing the game fail in every way. People are much more patient and willing to put up with problems and imbalances for everything else- and even pve, which is generally a bigger part of the game than pvp is, tends to have considerably more positive forums.
I just have not seen a single mmo where the pvp forums were anything but a cesspool of misery and hatred- and it has hurt mmos harshly.
I should note I am saying this as someone who pvps at least twice as much as I pve- who in TOR has 4 characters between 40-80 valor level yet still hasn't seen a quarter of the regular flashpoints. I'm a pvper- I spend a lot of time with pvpers in game, and on pvp forums- pvp makes games ugly, and while indeed it can bring in a crowd- if you don't do it well it will nullify anything else in the game that's good.
So, PWE, I'll say two things about pvp that I think you need to do before you consider putting it in.
1- It has to be balanced and thought out. It cannot be a stunfest or have two shotting, and it cannot have one class with insane burst damage, amazing defensives/dodges- while another has next to no burst and crumples like a wet paper bag. You also have to consider your pvp objectives- having most fights taking half a minute will work great for team deathmatch- but will not work in a match where you need to take a node and have 20 second rez timers.
2- Don't let flame wars get out of hand. If you let people think they can endlessly troll-bait, flame each other, and flood the forums with threads trashing the game- that's what your front page is going to look like. There's a difference between constructive critism, which is something you both want and should respond to, and pointless whining.
I'll also add to this- if you need to nerf or buff something- consider how that'll change the dynamics. If you feel like ability A isn't being used by a class while everyone's using ability B- the solution probably isn't nerfing B into the ground while leaving A as is- chances are just as good that people aren't using A because it sucks as they are that B is too powerful, and I'm tired of having a decent class ruined because a dev team decided a vital ability was too strong so everyone was speccing it, but ignored how bad the other abilities were.
Apsollutly free PVP, you can pvp anytime, anywhere... but if you kill someone that didn't respond to your attack you get Karma and your name becomes red (and very visible). If anyone kills you while you have karma, there is a possibility that you will drop some of your equipment, money or inventory items. To get karma off yourself you need to kill tons of creatures. If someone kills you, you lose karma too, but if you kill someone while having karma on yourself your karma counter will increase and became even harder to get it off.
This simple rule made L2 pvp and pve game in the same time. No one would engage in pvp without a good reason, cause consequences can be very devastaitng
Gladiator style battle arenas fit perfectly with the setting IMO. I would like to see a betting system where players can voluntarily put money or equipment up for grabs depending on the outcome of a match or duel. They do something like this in borderlands 2 where you can chose to fight for items in the trade menu. And I really hope one day far down the line they will implement pvp foundry maps. That is what originally made counter strike such an awesome fps after all. Old school cs maps are still some of the most balanced and entertaining fps maps in existence.
On a slightly off topic note I would really like if some games would include in their micro transaction system the ability to donate towards specific features. Like a mini kickstarter system where I could donate money towards items on cryptic's wish list to help them prioritize and afford further development after the initial burst of post launch activity subsides. This would allow cryptic to pitch some future content or features to the playerbase that they want to include but may lack the funding for.
This. My hope is for no pvp whatsoever. Barring that, I hope it's relegated out of sight on separate maps where I don't even have to think about its existence.
Wish granted!
*sends an illithid on laseaus's way so he may never realize PvP is in the game*
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
I'm hoping for the ability to flag my characters for open-world PvP as there will not be an open world PvP server.
Cryptic uses a single server world system with multiple public instance zones so no world PvP, so any multi player qued up is instanced. I've just mentioned all we know of NW's PvP system publicly however. At least it's more than crafting!