Let's hope it makes a difference, but call me a skeptic.
I'll hold off on spending any money on NWO till I see that PWE shows they care more about it than the show they've put on for RaiderZ
The great thing about F2P is you don't have to....still that don't keep people from bitching about a game that's for all intensive purposes free.... especially before it even launches.
Probably because they're hesitant to give sensitive information about server maintenance to volunteers. It would be giving a stranger too much control/ability. It's different when you sit down with somebody for an interview and hire them.
A pretty sophisticated system would have to be specially developed for volunteer in game moderators to have the power to address issues like gold spammers without having the ability to abuse power. And that's not even touching any legal concerns. Typically, you have to pay people who work for you. I'm sure there's tax licensing BS associated with volunteers as well.
I can certainly understand the need to keep volunteers off of the GM enabled programs. I guess this discussion should have come before they laid the structure in place that they are using now. Back in EQ1 there was a guy who flipped out, was either a GM, or was using their program because he went to some impossible to get to area, began summoning and killing random high level players. This went on for a while before they kicked him off the server. So permissions and such would have to be set up for those individuals. I can't see them not being able to set this up with a bit of work.
I just want Neverwinter to succeed. To have it not plagued by gold sellers. To be given a chance, if the game fails to keep players then at least it had a chance. If the gold sellers come in on day one, and people get 60 spams in 2 minutes, well that would turn anybody off to the game.
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
I just want Neverwinter to succeed. To have it not plagued by gold sellers.
This is, of course, only what we all want, and so I hope that PWE and Cryptic use every method at their disposal to deter and ban gold spammers without inhibiting legitimate player's options. But my (limited) experience with PWE has led me to believe that they will only use what options don't cost them any profits.
Only time will tell, I guess. They've kept this game in development for so long, I hope they don't rush out of Open Beta when that time comes (as happens so often) - because they will almost certainly have to make some large scale adjustments between Open Beta and launch to keep the game running smoothly.
Department of Labor - Internships
Unpaid interns exist...but it explicitly states it has to be educational...and I doubt dealing with rule violation issues can be passed off as educational.
Oh I agree it would take an wise attorney to craft the contracts, but creative wording and actions (cutting a deal with a local votech school for example) could make it very possible. Giving back to the community they reside in could certainly be deemed in a positive light in such a rough economy.
Thats my opinion on it, but I also believe PW/Cryptic is serious about doing something about this. However, until I see PW/Cryptic's plan, I'll remain skeptical, yet hopeful about this topic.
they will only use what options don't cost them any profits.
Good point, because the underlying principle is as always, greed. Goldspammers could be just an indicator of the "tip of an iceberg" ? Could it be that real money trading in games has lead to new inadvertent and immoral practises ? Will they find acceptable workarounds for the problem or will they keep on patching the "tip" until it flattens out ?
When i first played a game with an in-game trading system, i immediately wondered how they would deal with all the numerous issues that it involves. (it was NWN of course, what could it else be). Maybe they will have an in-game stock exchange and currency trade. Investment agencies and shareholder unions. Magically enhanced swords for sale as an investment paper, on the NYSE.
No we are not ready for this yet and they should avoid the influx of RL money to disturb our little world of FR. Ban trading and stop money conversion altogether ! Long live the proletariat....
I don't want a nyse on my home, and all i need is a little shop that sells knives, guidbreakers, buckethammers, kitebombs. Really simple like.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
Maybe they will have an in-game stock exchange and currency trade. Investment agencies and shareholder unions.
Goodness, it's starting to sound like EVE online - the game you play with a spreadsheet and calculator.
Path of Exile sure had a creative and very cool, and setting/lore consistent solution: there's no currency. Everything is bartered. It's pretty awesome, heh.
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karendeshMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
So you wanted a rated spam allowance ? With levels and monetization option or ??? I mean this is all just catching chickens with a walegun. As long as their eez money in the game, you WILL get professional players who gamble for money.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
Forget diplomacy. We need to find them and castra...
*whispered to*
Whadda you MEAN humane, these...things aren't even human!
*whispered to again* and now you say they are PEOPLE and not gold animals?! OUTRAGEOUS!
Okay, I know we've all felt this way, or I'm having a psychotic moment. What's that Mr. Dodohead? I'm perfectly sane? Thanks!
But what we can do to start is have clickable block/report names and x-day no world/zone/tell ability for new users. Those "simple" steps really help cut down on transmissions alone. I was there in the MMOs when the spamming rose to a level of people thinking of new solutions ands they implemented these. DDO has...more proprietary and secret methods but if the people who know them also develop this game then they work very well too!
It would make sense to have credit-validated accounts just for the sake of unique user ids. That way all users can only create one account, even if they don't have to pay anything significant for it. Secure transactions come at a price: the price is freedom :eek:
"Nono", Mr Dodobot says, "rules first !". We need rules against abuse and not free spamming all over the world. Every game has its rules, and they are good because, Mr. Dodobot says, they make for better gaming. Lol if you want anarchy in the uk, go Dododancing on timesquare.com for money. But it won't get your chatroom cleared from those ente-perurial scum.
So anyway the countermeasures need to get explained to the normal users because getting chatbanned and reportbanned is an experience not many noobies are going to enjoy. After they are finished programming all the necessary tools and helpscreens, the abuse will move on to other areas and so on... i want to call it noob-bashing but i guess the term was already taken.
It makes no sense, for example, to report a seller who just logs in for 2 minutes, posts 500 spams, logs out again. The spammer is gone from your screen. Create a new free account and redo. They can invent hundreds of anti-abuse measures that will make it nearly impossible for noobies to log in because of the tons of nerf associated with creating an account. etc.
But what we can do to start is have clickable block/report names and x-day no world/zone/tell ability for new users. Those "simple" steps really help cut down on transmissions alone. I was there in the MMOs when the spamming rose to a level of people thinking of new solutions ands they implemented these. DDO has...more proprietary and secret methods but if the people who know them also develop this game then they work very well too!
Another easy fix that would help everyone is a auto chat ban that would kick in if someone spams the same phrase X number of times, perhaps within X minutes. It would also help cut down on those people who repeat stuff over and over and over again, heh. We all have run into those kiddos before I'm sure! Someone mentioned this in one of the threads, just thought to add it here with the other easy fix.
It would make sense to have credit-validated accounts just for the sake of unique user ids. That way all users can only create one account, even if they don't have to pay anything significant for it. Secure transactions come at a price: the price is freedom :eek:
"Nono", Mr Dodobot says, "rules first !". We need rules against abuse and not free spamming all over the world. Every game has its rules, and they are good because, Mr. Dodobot says, they make for better gaming. Lol if you want anarchy in the uk, go Dododancing on timesquare.com for money. But it won't get your chatroom cleared from those ente-perurial scum.
So anyway the countermeasures need to get explained to the normal users because getting chatbanned and reportbanned is an experience not many noobies are going to enjoy. After they are finished programming all the necessary tools and helpscreens, the abuse will move on to other areas and so on... i want to call it noob-bashing but i guess the term was already taken.
It makes no sense, for example, to report a seller who just logs in for 2 minutes, posts 500 spams, logs out again. The spammer is gone from your screen. Create a new free account and redo. They can invent hundreds of anti-abuse measures that will make it nearly impossible for noobies to log in because of the tons of nerf associated with creating an account. etc.
Yeah Mr. Dodohead, he is talking to another of your kind? How come I can't see him or her? Him? Because I'm not specially chosen to see that one like they can't see you? Oh of course, and here I thought this was just another crazy weirdo!
Yeah Mr. Dodohead, he is talking to another of your kind? How come I can't see him or her? Him? Because I'm not specially chosen to see that one like they can't see you? Oh of course, and here I thought this was just another crazy weirdo!
Easy on the eggnog Truth...you're starting to scare the mundanes.
Always Looking for mature laidback players/rpers for Dungeon Delves!
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited December 2012
What about those under 18 with No access to a credit card?
They could use their parent's credit cards but what if their parents, like mine, do not have credit cards? Or if those parents had 3+ kids between 13-17 who wanted to play.
Worse yet, what if somebody forgets their password and fail to have enough proof to recover their account.
It's important to think about possible side effects of any bot spam solution
This conversation is both terrifying and amusing at the same time I must admit. As has been mentioned a few times in here you need only look at CO and STO to realize why most of the ideas in this thread basically boil down to the player base basically, "asking for it."
Now I've seen the whole argument somewhere on these forums for, "Well if player X makes the same thing on the foundry all the time then blah blah blah people can change....," and I've also see the whole Atari vs. PWE argument. I'm not going to pretend to know all the inside information. I'm not going to pretend I know everything. What I am going to do is paint my own opinionated prediction and if I turn out to be wrong...you win. If I turn out to be right then I told you all so. It's that simple.
1. You'll get the same Chat/Ban System that is abused on a daily basis, very easily I might add, in STO/CO.
2. Alot of your "good members" will be repeatedly chat/banned for no reason.
3. Your forums will run red with the rage threads of these people while your forum-using-vets(Who are an insignificant portion of the player-base and therefore in most cases meaningless) see the error of their ways and beg for the system to be removed or better implimented.
4. Beyond the 1st...hmm...2-3 months your game will have ZERO ingame GMs. There will be some outside of the game to copy/paste canned replies which may or may not have anything to do with your actual issues so a GM reviewed system...is out of the question.
5. No matter how much you beg the OFFICIAL Dev reply will be that this feature is "Working as Intended" and is integrated into the overall Cryptic Engine(CO/STO/NW/???) and therefore cannot be repaired or edited and will not ever be removed. Honestly, this whole thread is kinda pointless for that very reason when you think about it.
Now if you all do manage to get enough feedback into turning this monstrous system into something desirable that does actually work...please, by all means, try and get them to funnel that love down to the other less fortunate games in the chain. I wish you all luck...because you're probably going to need it.
P.S. I am also astounded that you all seem to have more Community Mods than we do Devs in CO(not counting right now because you all have our devs...but normally). Also, you can't keep Trailturtle, he's the best CR we've ever had and I, personally, would like him returned in a timely fashion.
What happened to the facebook automatic login ? It kinda stopped working for me. Looking for a way to get secure user ids and failing. You know, customers who want to spend money occasionally will feel entiteled to completely secure transactions. I most likely will refuse to even register my own credit card if i don't feel that there is such a thing as account safety. If they can't figure that one out i don't know how they want to attract serious customers. sigh.
I suppose there can be several accounts for every household. If there is persistency it will be impossible to create lots of trash accounts, and account history can be traced for unwanted activity. Kids always have parents right ? Use parent to get accredited, then ban the account from overspending to save the parent's bank account.
You can't have credit card users and non-credit card users. It would mean discrimination. Payed users would be superior to non-paying users. They would have access to priviliged shopping and better items.:mad:
hi ..i have played a few games where they make it -if u talk too much in any chat other than party guild or whisper u start to lose health and when u die u can not talk at all this works very well just an idea! this can be a pain when looking for a party to dungeon crawl with but this can be solved with a bill board looking for party queue and for the most part most run them with friends family or guild mates
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited December 2012
Facebook a secure log in method?
No sir. Rule number 1 do not put all yours eggs in one basket. I would never use that Facebook log in feature even if I had one and actively advise others not to use any feature.
That's there for marketing and ease of access. It's very much a security risk not an improvement.
ok here we go ! war on drugs,war on guns,war on video games,war on cancer,war on breast feeding, war on terror,war on religion,war on climate change ,war on you, and finally THE WAR ON NWO FOR NOT BRING BETA TO MY HOME THIS CHRISTMAS
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
hi ..i have played a few games where they make it -if u talk too much in any chat other than party guild or whisper u start to lose health and when u die u can not talk at all this works very well just an idea! this can be a pain when looking for a party to dungeon crawl with but this can be solved with a bill board looking for party queue and for the most part most run them with friends family or guild mates
If there aws a santa he would have snesked in thhe cryptic and tolen beta keys for all of good children .... wll I am nearing 30 but I am still d child at heart so ... an give evety one of us a beta kay!
Comments
The great thing about F2P is you don't have to....still that don't keep people from bitching about a game that's for all intensive purposes free.... especially before it even launches.
That makes it really hard for new players to the game to ask for help. I'd rather not see that.
I can certainly understand the need to keep volunteers off of the GM enabled programs. I guess this discussion should have come before they laid the structure in place that they are using now. Back in EQ1 there was a guy who flipped out, was either a GM, or was using their program because he went to some impossible to get to area, began summoning and killing random high level players. This went on for a while before they kicked him off the server. So permissions and such would have to be set up for those individuals. I can't see them not being able to set this up with a bit of work.
I just want Neverwinter to succeed. To have it not plagued by gold sellers. To be given a chance, if the game fails to keep players then at least it had a chance. If the gold sellers come in on day one, and people get 60 spams in 2 minutes, well that would turn anybody off to the game.
This is, of course, only what we all want, and so I hope that PWE and Cryptic use every method at their disposal to deter and ban gold spammers without inhibiting legitimate player's options. But my (limited) experience with PWE has led me to believe that they will only use what options don't cost them any profits.
Only time will tell, I guess. They've kept this game in development for so long, I hope they don't rush out of Open Beta when that time comes (as happens so often) - because they will almost certainly have to make some large scale adjustments between Open Beta and launch to keep the game running smoothly.
Oh I agree it would take an wise attorney to craft the contracts, but creative wording and actions (cutting a deal with a local votech school for example) could make it very possible. Giving back to the community they reside in could certainly be deemed in a positive light in such a rough economy.
Thats my opinion on it, but I also believe PW/Cryptic is serious about doing something about this. However, until I see PW/Cryptic's plan, I'll remain skeptical, yet hopeful about this topic.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Good point, because the underlying principle is as always, greed. Goldspammers could be just an indicator of the "tip of an iceberg" ? Could it be that real money trading in games has lead to new inadvertent and immoral practises ? Will they find acceptable workarounds for the problem or will they keep on patching the "tip" until it flattens out ?
When i first played a game with an in-game trading system, i immediately wondered how they would deal with all the numerous issues that it involves. (it was NWN of course, what could it else be). Maybe they will have an in-game stock exchange and currency trade. Investment agencies and shareholder unions. Magically enhanced swords for sale as an investment paper, on the NYSE.
No we are not ready for this yet and they should avoid the influx of RL money to disturb our little world of FR. Ban trading and stop money conversion altogether ! Long live the proletariat....
I don't want a nyse on my home, and all i need is a little shop that sells knives, guidbreakers, buckethammers, kitebombs. Really simple like.
Goodness, it's starting to sound like EVE online - the game you play with a spreadsheet and calculator.
Path of Exile sure had a creative and very cool, and setting/lore consistent solution: there's no currency. Everything is bartered. It's pretty awesome, heh.
LOL! Amen to that brother!
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Something like this should be quite effective...
*whispered to*
Whadda you MEAN humane, these...things aren't even human!
*whispered to again* and now you say they are PEOPLE and not gold animals?! OUTRAGEOUS!
Okay, I know we've all felt this way, or I'm having a psychotic moment. What's that Mr. Dodohead? I'm perfectly sane? Thanks!
But what we can do to start is have clickable block/report names and x-day no world/zone/tell ability for new users. Those "simple" steps really help cut down on transmissions alone. I was there in the MMOs when the spamming rose to a level of people thinking of new solutions ands they implemented these. DDO has...more proprietary and secret methods but if the people who know them also develop this game then they work very well too!
I'd have teams dedicated to scheduled and constant DDOS attacks against the sites those gold spammers advertise.
"Nono", Mr Dodobot says, "rules first !". We need rules against abuse and not free spamming all over the world. Every game has its rules, and they are good because, Mr. Dodobot says, they make for better gaming. Lol if you want anarchy in the uk, go Dododancing on timesquare.com for money. But it won't get your chatroom cleared from those ente-perurial scum.
So anyway the countermeasures need to get explained to the normal users because getting chatbanned and reportbanned is an experience not many noobies are going to enjoy. After they are finished programming all the necessary tools and helpscreens, the abuse will move on to other areas and so on... i want to call it noob-bashing but i guess the term was already taken.
It makes no sense, for example, to report a seller who just logs in for 2 minutes, posts 500 spams, logs out again. The spammer is gone from your screen. Create a new free account and redo. They can invent hundreds of anti-abuse measures that will make it nearly impossible for noobies to log in because of the tons of nerf associated with creating an account. etc.
Another easy fix that would help everyone is a auto chat ban that would kick in if someone spams the same phrase X number of times, perhaps within X minutes. It would also help cut down on those people who repeat stuff over and over and over again, heh. We all have run into those kiddos before I'm sure! Someone mentioned this in one of the threads, just thought to add it here with the other easy fix.
They should have bots for that as well. I hate spammers.
Yeah Mr. Dodohead, he is talking to another of your kind? How come I can't see him or her? Him? Because I'm not specially chosen to see that one like they can't see you? Oh of course, and here I thought this was just another crazy weirdo!
Easy on the eggnog Truth...you're starting to scare the mundanes.
They could use their parent's credit cards but what if their parents, like mine, do not have credit cards? Or if those parents had 3+ kids between 13-17 who wanted to play.
Worse yet, what if somebody forgets their password and fail to have enough proof to recover their account.
It's important to think about possible side effects of any bot spam solution
Now I've seen the whole argument somewhere on these forums for, "Well if player X makes the same thing on the foundry all the time then blah blah blah people can change....," and I've also see the whole Atari vs. PWE argument. I'm not going to pretend to know all the inside information. I'm not going to pretend I know everything. What I am going to do is paint my own opinionated prediction and if I turn out to be wrong...you win. If I turn out to be right then I told you all so. It's that simple.
1. You'll get the same Chat/Ban System that is abused on a daily basis, very easily I might add, in STO/CO.
2. Alot of your "good members" will be repeatedly chat/banned for no reason.
3. Your forums will run red with the rage threads of these people while your forum-using-vets(Who are an insignificant portion of the player-base and therefore in most cases meaningless) see the error of their ways and beg for the system to be removed or better implimented.
4. Beyond the 1st...hmm...2-3 months your game will have ZERO ingame GMs. There will be some outside of the game to copy/paste canned replies which may or may not have anything to do with your actual issues so a GM reviewed system...is out of the question.
5. No matter how much you beg the OFFICIAL Dev reply will be that this feature is "Working as Intended" and is integrated into the overall Cryptic Engine(CO/STO/NW/???) and therefore cannot be repaired or edited and will not ever be removed. Honestly, this whole thread is kinda pointless for that very reason when you think about it.
Now if you all do manage to get enough feedback into turning this monstrous system into something desirable that does actually work...please, by all means, try and get them to funnel that love down to the other less fortunate games in the chain. I wish you all luck...because you're probably going to need it.
P.S. I am also astounded that you all seem to have more Community Mods than we do Devs in CO(not counting right now because you all have our devs...but normally). Also, you can't keep Trailturtle, he's the best CR we've ever had and I, personally, would like him returned in a timely fashion.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
I suppose there can be several accounts for every household. If there is persistency it will be impossible to create lots of trash accounts, and account history can be traced for unwanted activity. Kids always have parents right ? Use parent to get accredited, then ban the account from overspending to save the parent's bank account.
You can't have credit card users and non-credit card users. It would mean discrimination. Payed users would be superior to non-paying users. They would have access to priviliged shopping and better items.:mad:
No sir. Rule number 1 do not put all yours eggs in one basket. I would never use that Facebook log in feature even if I had one and actively advise others not to use any feature.
That's there for marketing and ease of access. It's very much a security risk not an improvement.
I agree, but some of us just can't put our weapons down
That's a really interesting solution.
Happy holidays
There is no santa -wahhhh!!!!