How can anyone go past a DRuid. I would have to say the DnD Druid is the best ever class. It took eons for the other games to sort out Druids, please don't let me down again. Howelse could one control weather, animals, plants and even elementals. Where else can one become an animal, plant or elemental as one heals his friends while causing high mayhem on the field as one slips from tree to tree kiting all the mobs. WHAT JOY!!
Oh my...I was just reading above that the Druid has been moved to "primal"? Never heard of it but, alas it makes me depressed again.
Druids, Barbarian and other bush-lovers wild people are primal. Primal means you use the power of the spirits and ancestors.
So a Barbarian primal can be A new leader inside whom spirits of old ancestors who died in battle come to reside and help him.
For Druid it can be that the Nature itself helps them in their cause.
Druid were always a misnomer as a part of divine. Divine means aligning yourself with your favourite deity and fighting other deities who are your enemies. Druidism is more about "balance" than petty divine fights.
Paladins! I am saddened that they are not one of the starting classes in the game, so they without hesitation get my vote. But naturally all of the divine classes deserve some love and respect.
Paladins! I am saddened that they are not one of the starting classes in the game, so they without hesitation get my vote. But naturally all of the divine classes deserve some love and respect.
I haven't heard them mentioned in any interview, but we can't totally rule out that they won't be in the game at release. They are being so close lipped about the game that we know very little about classes and races that will really be in at release. Heck I bet they will keep these mysteries from beta testers, only introducing them bit by bit during testing!
New classes can be added pretty easily according to an old reply by stromshade.
So if you want more classes, their response can be - play lvl20 content with one of these classes first - by the time you are done there will be new class - or something along those lines.
I would find such a response to be encouraging and satisfactory.
Maybe there is more to it - e.g. Paladin may use playstyle of both cleric and fighter. So they may be holding it for you to get used to cleric and fighter first as otherwise paladin's control might seem too hard. I remember in DDO paladin was most clickiest and hardest class to play (when it was first launched, before monks came) and toughest to build right.
@valandur1
You may indeed be correct, and I hope that you are in terms of Paladins or other classes being potentially available upon release of the game. I am hoping that they will be there, but since Cryptic has not made any comments about them being there, I don’t want to set myself up for a further disappointment.
(I should clarify, lest my comment sounds overly negative. I am looking forward to the game, but with Paladins at this time not being present, my level of excitement is great reduced.)
@gillrmn
That could be the case indeed, but I hope not. I really hate it when a game arbitrary decides that a player lacks enough intelligence to understand how to play a class (or whatever the subject may be) from the beginning, and that they must play as another ‘class’ to learn the fundamentals first.
Cryptic did something similar to what you described with Star Trek Online and the Klingon Faction, although not due to a learning curve. To unlock that faction, a player must have a Federation character that has reached level twenty-five. (Commander, grade five.) So the precedent for such a system is there, it is merely one which I do not enjoy.
I am not a fan of such systems, and hope that is not what is implemented here within Neverwinter. If I am enjoying a game, I get invested in my characters, and don’t want to have to create and play through a character just to gain access to the class type for the character I wish to play.
That is just my opinion though, and I am not trying to blast for your posting if that is how this sounds. I appreciate your comment, but I would rather face the possibility of struggling to learn a class, then be indirectly told by the game that I am neither smart or experienced enough to learn the said class on my own.
That could be the case indeed, but I hope not. I really hate it when a game arbitrary decides that a player lacks enough intelligence to understand how to play a class (or whatever the subject may be) from the beginning, and that they must play as another ‘class’ to learn the fundamentals first.
Cryptic did something similar to what you described with Star Trek Online and the Klingon Faction, although not due to a learning curve. To unlock that faction, a player must have a Federation character that has reached level twenty-five. (Commander, grade five.) So the precedent for such a system is there, it is merely one which I do not enjoy.
I am not a fan of such systems, and hope that is not what is implemented here within Neverwinter. If I am enjoying a game, I get invested in my characters, and don’t want to have to create and play through a character just to gain access to the class type for the character I wish to play.
That is just my opinion though, and I am not trying to blast for your posting if that is how this sounds. I appreciate your comment, but I would rather face the possibility of struggling to learn a class, then be indirectly told by the game that I am neither smart or experienced enough to learn the said class on my own.
Happy Holidays to you all!
Agreed. I'm not a player who rolls up a dozen alts and plays them all. I tend to stick with a couple or at most three characters in a game and even then I generally have a main one that I focus most of my time. I'd hate to roll up a character just so I can unlock a class I truly like.
Agreed. I'm not a player who rolls up a dozen alts and plays them all. I tend to stick with a couple or at most three characters in a game and even then I generally have a main one that I focus most of my time. I'd hate to roll up a character just so I can unlock a class I truly like.
Are you me?
/same playstyle and opinion on the subject
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
If I wanted to level a basic character class to unlock another class often more advanced I'll go play wizardry online.
That shouldn't be ever done here.
And there still is a sour taste in my mouth with how they abandoned Kiinks essentially.
Paladin ......and like someone else said no gender locking please, it's just too damn lame.
I've seen male and female dwarven, human, and tiefling wizards in demo videos so far.
I think it's safe to say there is no gender locking for character creation in this game.
Cryptic has always had a very good, customizable character creation system.
The thought of classes being restricted by gender had not even occurred to me. I certainly hope that there is no system system in place for Neverwinter.
Glory be to the Paladins and other virtuous agents of the divine!
I guess both from the older posts and this poll, it is clear paladin is clear winner(as expected) while runepriest the clear looser. I am sure many players who regularly play 4e don't even remember runepriest class(or that it is, infact divine).
Well, I guess to see other two divines-avenger and invoker down the line too though - especially as they are the new classes.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
The thought of classes being restricted by gender had not even occurred to me. I certainly hope that there is no system system in place for Neverwinter.
Glory be to the Paladins and other virtuous agents of the divine!
It's a pretty rare thing, I can only think of a couple examples off the top of my head, and the most obvious one recently added options to amend that decision.
It's really a non-issue, don't know why people would bother to be worried about it.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited December 2012
A little off topic but I think this is the right place to ask:
Is the worship of deities restricted by your alignment in 4e?
A little off topic but I think this is the right place to ask:
Is the worship of deities restricted by your alignment in 4e?
No, but it is recommended to match your dogma to the deity. So if you are, for example, cleric of Tempus, you can believe in being Lawful good - because you may think it is difficult to be good while it is easy to be evil. Or some other cleric may decide to give in to war completely and be Evil.
You can also just give lip service to deity to gain powers while not really believing them. There is no wall of faithless anymore. However, only the people who truly believe in deity are able to become chosen etc. so when they die their souls go to their deity and not some unknown place.
Also note that Asmodeus is deity and you no longer have to do sacrifices or evil things to summon his powers (although for Archdevils you still have to be evil). So you can be good while worshipping Asmodeus however, your soul will still be damned - but thats another matter altogether.
Most of the choices are left to players, but you have to have an explanation behind your motivation in pnp.
EDIT:
And yeah, there are some things you don't do. Like make a non-good PC and worship Torm. Or be an evil cleric of Selune. Similarly you can't be good cleric of Shar or Bane. etc.
It's a shame, I loved my Runepriest. Sure my healing was godawful but my damage/survivability was really good for a leader and my per round buffing/control was absolutely amazing.
Though, i'll admit even I didn't give Runepriest a second look till well after PHB3 came out. They just seemed a bit "meh" from a distance. But in practice their ability to seamlessly shift from offense to defense or vice/versa all the while maintaining AAA buffing and really solid control made them my favorite class in 4e.
It's a shame, I loved my Runepriest. Sure my healing was godawful but my damage/survivability was really good for a leader and my per round buffing/control was absolutely amazing.
Though, i'll admit even I didn't give Runepriest a second look till well after PHB3 came out. They just seemed a bit "meh" from a distance. But in practice their ability to seamlessly shift from offense to defense or vice/versa all the while maintaining AAA buffing and really solid control made them my favorite class in 4e.
Its great to see a Runepriest fan!!!
I think truthseeker has also played one before. I will eventually try it, but right now after trying cleric, monk, avenger, invoker and psion I am working with bard in 4e trying to understand its complexities. Too many rad classes, only so little sessions. That is why I am pinning hopes on NW to try out all the classes. Hope they have all the choices.
I want all four Divine Variants... Cleric, Paladin (Warrior Priest), Avenger (Rogue Priest) and Invoker (Wizard Priest)
But I also want all four Primal Variants... Druid, Barbarian (Warrior Druid), Warden (Rogue Druid) and Shaman (Wizard Druid).. Though I do think the Ranger would be a better Warrior Druid variant than the Barbarian. I see the latter, more as just a raw Martial Power Source class. I think this is one place in 4E that they got it wrong.
I want all four Divine Variants... Cleric, Paladin (Warrior Priest), Avenger (Rogue Priest) and Invoker (Wizard Priest)
But I also want all four Primal Variants... Druid, Barbarian (Warrior Druid), Warden (Rogue Druid) and Shaman (Wizard Druid).. Though I do think the Ranger would be a better Warrior Druid variant than the Barbarian. I see the latter, more as just a raw Martial Power Source class. I think this is one place in 4E that they got it wrong.
Actually, their definition of Primal is different than what you are thinking. Primal power is not druid power. Primal is the power of ancient spirits. Some ancient spirits are like trees and other bushes - like druid do, obey spirits in the forests. Or the spirits can be your ancestors who had died long before you and when you go to war, they give you protection. Like old tribes who worshiped their ancestors and marked themselves with tattoo before a war. Thus they worship Primal powers(earlier powers).
Ranger, you see, lives in jungle and uses the powers of bushes but is not actually obeying any spirits. He is just doing archery - making weapons by cutting trees, making homes in jungle and is a tracker who knows how to use wild beasts - basically what human were before they started agriculture. That is why they are martial.
I see your point Gillrmn, and I am not real familiar with 4e... Learning as I go, and not able to play.
My reasoning is thus:
Barbarians do not get spells or spell like powers. Their main focus is intense rage and channeling that rage.
While Rangers do get the Beastmaster Power, which are closer to Primal Powers, right?
I do understand that, and I used to think the same, but once you read more about primal source in "Primal Power" addon-book, it contains the details about primal more clearly.
Primal source is based on primal spirits.
The power of ranger as a beastmaster is more because of their mastery of taming a beast than primal spirits.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
I'll try and not list the entire PH2.(Not PH3, that is Psionics.)
The gods and primordials in the Dawn War used the Prime Material Plane (including the planet adventurers are on) as their battleground causing much destruction to the creatures of the earth. The Primal spirits rose up and defended the world literally severing direct access completely for the gods and (mostly) for the Primordials. To this day they defend the natural world from such incursions again. Creatures that defend the earth are able to tap into the primal power, maybe even the spirits themselves. When these who tap into the primal power die, they join the earth and have the possibility of being a primal spirit themselves. Spirits don't always take the form of creatures and can also take the form of certain aspects of nature from storms and fires and so forth. The most famous of the Primal powers that has existed for several editions (and now is called the said Primal power) is the World Serpent most currently mentioned ih the 4E PH2 and primal Power books respectively.
The role of the primal spirits is to protect and preserve the world. Even the World Serpent, whose coils could crush a god and whose fangs could pierce a primordial, exists to protect the natural order and balance of the world, not simply to destroy. Though the motions of the World Serpent’s mighty coils can shake the earth, he enfolds the world to shield it from harm, not to crush away its life.
As for Rangers, including the beastmasters:
Power Source: Martial. Your talents depend on extensive training and practice, inner confidence, and natural proficiency.
BEASTMASTER RANGER
A deadly hunter, you specialize in double-teaming your enemies with the aid of a beast companion. Your beast is an extension of you, and thereby it is an invaluable member of your group. No other is needed to help you flank your quarry. Melee combat with the aid of your beast is your focus, so you favor Strength. You count on Dexterity for your AC and occasional ranged attacks, so your secondary focus is on that ability score. Wisdom, your tertiary ability score, makes you better at the Perception skill and gives you an edge with many ranger powers. The Beast Mastery class feature is designed to complement this build.
Comments
divine corruption is the best, the classic paladin is for newbie
Give me entanglement, fireseeds, tornadoes, and cute cuddly woodland pets...like Treants and Cave Bears.
Not a divine class in 4e
St. Augustinus
Oh my...I was just reading above that the Druid has been moved to "primal"? Never heard of it but, alas it makes me depressed again.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
So a Barbarian primal can be A new leader inside whom spirits of old ancestors who died in battle come to reside and help him.
For Druid it can be that the Nature itself helps them in their cause.
Druid were always a misnomer as a part of divine. Divine means aligning yourself with your favourite deity and fighting other deities who are your enemies. Druidism is more about "balance" than petty divine fights.
I kind of understand. Everybody drops runepriest when talking of divine classes. Haven't seen anyone like it either.
Anyways there are five divine classes in 4e
Avenger
Invoker
Paladin
Cleric
Runepriest
I haven't heard them mentioned in any interview, but we can't totally rule out that they won't be in the game at release. They are being so close lipped about the game that we know very little about classes and races that will really be in at release. Heck I bet they will keep these mysteries from beta testers, only introducing them bit by bit during testing!
So if you want more classes, their response can be - play lvl20 content with one of these classes first - by the time you are done there will be new class - or something along those lines.
I would find such a response to be encouraging and satisfactory.
Maybe there is more to it - e.g. Paladin may use playstyle of both cleric and fighter. So they may be holding it for you to get used to cleric and fighter first as otherwise paladin's control might seem too hard. I remember in DDO paladin was most clickiest and hardest class to play (when it was first launched, before monks came) and toughest to build right.
You may indeed be correct, and I hope that you are in terms of Paladins or other classes being potentially available upon release of the game. I am hoping that they will be there, but since Cryptic has not made any comments about them being there, I don’t want to set myself up for a further disappointment.
(I should clarify, lest my comment sounds overly negative. I am looking forward to the game, but with Paladins at this time not being present, my level of excitement is great reduced.)
@gillrmn
That could be the case indeed, but I hope not. I really hate it when a game arbitrary decides that a player lacks enough intelligence to understand how to play a class (or whatever the subject may be) from the beginning, and that they must play as another ‘class’ to learn the fundamentals first.
Cryptic did something similar to what you described with Star Trek Online and the Klingon Faction, although not due to a learning curve. To unlock that faction, a player must have a Federation character that has reached level twenty-five. (Commander, grade five.) So the precedent for such a system is there, it is merely one which I do not enjoy.
I am not a fan of such systems, and hope that is not what is implemented here within Neverwinter. If I am enjoying a game, I get invested in my characters, and don’t want to have to create and play through a character just to gain access to the class type for the character I wish to play.
That is just my opinion though, and I am not trying to blast for your posting if that is how this sounds. I appreciate your comment, but I would rather face the possibility of struggling to learn a class, then be indirectly told by the game that I am neither smart or experienced enough to learn the said class on my own.
Happy Holidays to you all!
Agreed. I'm not a player who rolls up a dozen alts and plays them all. I tend to stick with a couple or at most three characters in a game and even then I generally have a main one that I focus most of my time. I'd hate to roll up a character just so I can unlock a class I truly like.
Are you me?
/same playstyle and opinion on the subject
That shouldn't be ever done here.
And there still is a sour taste in my mouth with how they abandoned Kiinks essentially.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
I've seen male and female dwarven, human, and tiefling wizards in demo videos so far.
I think it's safe to say there is no gender locking for character creation in this game.
Cryptic has always had a very good, customizable character creation system.
Glory be to the Paladins and other virtuous agents of the divine!
Well, I guess to see other two divines-avenger and invoker down the line too though - especially as they are the new classes.
It's a pretty rare thing, I can only think of a couple examples off the top of my head, and the most obvious one recently added options to amend that decision.
It's really a non-issue, don't know why people would bother to be worried about it.
Is the worship of deities restricted by your alignment in 4e?
You can also just give lip service to deity to gain powers while not really believing them. There is no wall of faithless anymore. However, only the people who truly believe in deity are able to become chosen etc. so when they die their souls go to their deity and not some unknown place.
Also note that Asmodeus is deity and you no longer have to do sacrifices or evil things to summon his powers (although for Archdevils you still have to be evil). So you can be good while worshipping Asmodeus however, your soul will still be damned - but thats another matter altogether.
Most of the choices are left to players, but you have to have an explanation behind your motivation in pnp.
EDIT:
And yeah, there are some things you don't do. Like make a non-good PC and worship Torm. Or be an evil cleric of Selune. Similarly you can't be good cleric of Shar or Bane. etc.
Alignment means making an effort. --Michele Carter
Though, i'll admit even I didn't give Runepriest a second look till well after PHB3 came out. They just seemed a bit "meh" from a distance. But in practice their ability to seamlessly shift from offense to defense or vice/versa all the while maintaining AAA buffing and really solid control made them my favorite class in 4e.
I think truthseeker has also played one before. I will eventually try it, but right now after trying cleric, monk, avenger, invoker and psion I am working with bard in 4e trying to understand its complexities. Too many rad classes, only so little sessions. That is why I am pinning hopes on NW to try out all the classes. Hope they have all the choices.
But I also want all four Primal Variants... Druid, Barbarian (Warrior Druid), Warden (Rogue Druid) and Shaman (Wizard Druid).. Though I do think the Ranger would be a better Warrior Druid variant than the Barbarian. I see the latter, more as just a raw Martial Power Source class. I think this is one place in 4E that they got it wrong.
Actually, their definition of Primal is different than what you are thinking. Primal power is not druid power. Primal is the power of ancient spirits. Some ancient spirits are like trees and other bushes - like druid do, obey spirits in the forests. Or the spirits can be your ancestors who had died long before you and when you go to war, they give you protection. Like old tribes who worshiped their ancestors and marked themselves with tattoo before a war. Thus they worship Primal powers(earlier powers).
Ranger, you see, lives in jungle and uses the powers of bushes but is not actually obeying any spirits. He is just doing archery - making weapons by cutting trees, making homes in jungle and is a tracker who knows how to use wild beasts - basically what human were before they started agriculture. That is why they are martial.
My reasoning is thus:
Barbarians do not get spells or spell like powers. Their main focus is intense rage and channeling that rage.
While Rangers do get the Beastmaster Power, which are closer to Primal Powers, right?
I do understand that, and I used to think the same, but once you read more about primal source in "Primal Power" addon-book, it contains the details about primal more clearly.
Primal source is based on primal spirits.
The power of ranger as a beastmaster is more because of their mastery of taming a beast than primal spirits.
The gods and primordials in the Dawn War used the Prime Material Plane (including the planet adventurers are on) as their battleground causing much destruction to the creatures of the earth. The Primal spirits rose up and defended the world literally severing direct access completely for the gods and (mostly) for the Primordials. To this day they defend the natural world from such incursions again. Creatures that defend the earth are able to tap into the primal power, maybe even the spirits themselves. When these who tap into the primal power die, they join the earth and have the possibility of being a primal spirit themselves. Spirits don't always take the form of creatures and can also take the form of certain aspects of nature from storms and fires and so forth. The most famous of the Primal powers that has existed for several editions (and now is called the said Primal power) is the World Serpent most currently mentioned ih the 4E PH2 and primal Power books respectively.
As for Rangers, including the beastmasters:
Hope that clears up a few things.