"Renovating" demogorgon?

empalas
empalas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 799 Arc User
Did this become too easy now I'm guessing???
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  • arazith07
    arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,442 Arc User
    I'm guessing yes, sorta. It is a Prince of Demons we are fighting, it's suppose to feel epic, instead it's just a complete mess for most PUGs. I hope they get rid of all the blue and green portals (or the whole portal thing in general) so that there is less toxicity been generated in the first phase. I hope they also make the last phase longer (at least longer than that of the Goristro fight).

    All that aside though, there are new Demogorgon artifact set on the preview, including a neck and waist that can be upgraded all the way to Mythic, so this alone shows that they will make the trial at least take more time to complete, if not make harder.
  • blargskull
    blargskull Member Posts: 513 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    I'm guessing yes, sorta. It is a Prince of Demons we are fighting, it's suppose to feel epic, instead it's just a complete mess for most PUGs. I hope they get rid of all the blue and green portals (or the whole portal thing in general) so that there is less toxicity been generated in the first phase. I hope they also make the last phase longer (at least longer than that of the Goristro fight).

    All that aside though, there are new Demogorgon artifact set on the preview, including a neck and waist that can be upgraded all the way to Mythic, so this alone shows that they will make the trial at least take more time to complete, if not make harder.

    It would help a lot, if they made it make sense. I guess Demogorgon would sue them for not driving us all crazy! :trollface:

    Back in the good old days - when all this demon stuff mattered - I recall a lot of the vets telling us what to do before we entered Throne, Prophecy of Madness, or Demogorgon. It seemed better organized because we had people with experience and others listened to them. On the other hand, Demogorgon's portal phase never made any sense as everyone knew (after a few times) purple portals matter. They should have made it where Squidward was shouting which portals needed to be closed to make that more of a challenge. It seems most of the blame falls on Cryptic not making a logical skirmish. The remainder is players not paying attention to other seasoned players. Years ago, I use to enjoy doing all of these.

    Just killing time...
  • arcanjo86
    arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,092 Arc User
    the fact they said demogorgon wont drop the rings makes me sad, would love to see a minor rework on these rings making it drop only as legendary drops, item level improved add small combined rating value, no raw stats added and equip bonus name is the same as the ring name, the weapon set increased item level, making this trial worth farming not just for the artifact set but for other items aswell, i hope they dont forget to add demogorgon vanity pet ^^
  • amascus#1899
    amascus#1899 Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    I did not get why they would close the old one to make a new one. Are they making the changes on the live server or something ? :)
  • derdrakon
    derdrakon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    Interesting.
    Just took a look at the new Demogorgon Set. All parts are IL 1000, even the artifact, which means nothing just yet. Still I wonder if this is the first little step into a reworked Underdark zone or campaign.

    If the best set will be the new Demogorgon set, then it is logical to assume, that the Demogorgon Fight will get a lot tougher. I really liked this skirmish, because you had to know what to do (that is always good), but you had to be prepared also. The underdark equipment helped a lot in raising your survivability in this fight. It was kind of mandatory.
    So what if the gear becomes mandatory again, because of the difficulty? The bonus is good, but the gear itself is weak and not worth it. It would make sence to rework/raise the gear. But reworked gear in an old adventure? Doesn't make sense, untill...

    Well well, we will see. Everything speculation and wishes...
  • armadeonx
    armadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    Seeing as Demo is the most leeched trial, I hope they fix the kick timer so they can be voted out.

    Better yet, update all dungeons and trials so that no/low participation results in no reward for those players - but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
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  • froger#9967
    froger#9967 Member Posts: 573 Arc User


    Back in the good old days - when all this demon stuff mattered - I recall a lot of the vets telling us what to do before we entered Throne, Prophecy of Madness, or Demogorgon. It seemed better organized because we had people with experience and others listened to them. On the other hand, Demogorgon's portal phase never made any sense as everyone knew (after a few times) purple portals matter. They should have made it where Squidward was shouting which portals needed to be closed to make that more of a challenge. It seems most of the blame falls on Cryptic not making a logical skirmish. The remainder is players not paying attention to other seasoned players. Years ago, I use to enjoy doing all of these.

    Demo had to be organized back in the day. You only got a shot at it once per hour and if you didn't at least Sliver, though usually gold, you didn't burn a key on the chest.

    I really hope it goes back to having a time gate like before. I feel players were serious about it back then.
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  • pitshade
    pitshade Member Posts: 5,420 Arc User
    Only NDEMO was timer locked. EDEMO was available normally.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • froger#9967
    froger#9967 Member Posts: 573 Arc User
    pitshade said:

    Only NDEMO was timer locked. EDEMO was available normally.

    It's been too many years for me to remember it exactly, thanks.
    Froger - Barbarian - Original Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Booster Shot - Cleric - Healer Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Magnus - Fighter - 3rd main to be a tank - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone

    Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
  • mentinmindmaker
    mentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,375 Arc User
    Compared to REDQ the RTQ is rather too easy now, and giving the same rewards.

    So I guess Cryptic are on a crusade to boost the difficulty level of RTQ, starting with the easiest one.

    It really is only CoDG that is close to being hard(because of some tactics, push/pull and the dps check), SVA is easy as long as people focus on the ice, Tiamat is just boring and eDemo you can just leech if you want.

    Tiamat should be up for a difficulty boost after eDemo.
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,455 Arc User
    edited September 2021


    Back in the good old days - when all this demon stuff mattered - I recall a lot of the vets telling us what to do before we entered Throne, Prophecy of Madness, or Demogorgon. It seemed better organized because we had people with experience and others listened to them. On the other hand, Demogorgon's portal phase never made any sense as everyone knew (after a few times) purple portals matter. They should have made it where Squidward was shouting which portals needed to be closed to make that more of a challenge. It seems most of the blame falls on Cryptic not making a logical skirmish. The remainder is players not paying attention to other seasoned players. Years ago, I use to enjoy doing all of these.

    Demo had to be organized back in the day. You only got a shot at it once per hour and if you didn't at least Sliver, though usually gold, you didn't burn a key on the chest.

    I really hope it goes back to having a time gate like before. I feel players were serious about it back then.
    You mean standing in front of the cave and waiting for it? :)
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  • arcanjo86
    arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,092 Arc User


    Back in the good old days - when all this demon stuff mattered - I recall a lot of the vets telling us what to do before we entered Throne, Prophecy of Madness, or Demogorgon. It seemed better organized because we had people with experience and others listened to them. On the other hand, Demogorgon's portal phase never made any sense as everyone knew (after a few times) purple portals matter. They should have made it where Squidward was shouting which portals needed to be closed to make that more of a challenge. It seems most of the blame falls on Cryptic not making a logical skirmish. The remainder is players not paying attention to other seasoned players. Years ago, I use to enjoy doing all of these.

    Demo had to be organized back in the day. You only got a shot at it once per hour and if you didn't at least Sliver, though usually gold, you didn't burn a key on the chest.

    I really hope it goes back to having a time gate like before. I feel players were serious about it back then.
    You mean standing in front of the cave and waiting for it? :)
    and tiamant aswell when we spam F on temple door xD good old days
  • rockster#6227
    rockster#6227 Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    I just watched this Garlaanx video and it looks like Demo may come back as a high-level trial. If true, once again older content taken out of the game then re-cycled as new content. I guess it's easier and cheaper than just leaving existing content and creating brand new stuff.

  • armadeonx
    armadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    Their new method of dealing with power creep is to make everything harder to match gear improvements so you never benefit from the gear (except preventing yourself from sliding backwards).

    Nice.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

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  • empalas
    empalas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 799 Arc User
    At least today they confirmed my initial suspicion and tomorrow we get to see how they "messed" it up. :) Just joking...sort of. hehehe
  • rikitaki
    rikitaki Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    I got really confused by the claim that demo is no longer challenging enough - if you try to pug, it usually is too much to ask the dps "purple portals only", tank to keep the demo away, and healers to, for example, participate...
    Putting some additional demands to something so intricate... might be too brave.
  • arazith07
    arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,442 Arc User
    rikitaki said:

    I got really confused by the claim that demo is no longer challenging enough - if you try to pug, it usually is too much to ask the dps "purple portals only", tank to keep the demo away, and healers to, for example, participate...
    Putting some additional demands to something so intricate... might be too brave.

    And yet, even with all these set backs, the trial still ends up in a complete with either silver or gold.
  • rikitaki
    rikitaki Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    We will see how the fight gets improved, but the main problem used to be that the only consequence of your action/non-action was the annoyed players. You could spend the first two phases by the camp fire - and in many cases it was the advisable action to maintain your... sanity. (what an irony)

    A mandatory tank swap... we can just guess the percentage of tanks in pug that do know what a hard taunt is. Just my worry... we will see.
  • auron#6793
    auron#6793 Member Posts: 373 Arc User
    honestly this is going to be like cradle where everyone leaves as soon as it pops. what the heck is tank swapping anyways?
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  • rikitaki
    rikitaki Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    Any mechanics which require to retake aggro in a specific moment, usually followed by penalty (tank dying) if not executed within given time-frame. (few seconds)

    Zariel has a tank buster that can sure-kill the tank (the first target is disabled and cannot defend), Zariels phantoms apply phantom-specific damage multiplier after tankbuster, TOMM has a slowly stacking-up debuff.

    Generally, if someone takes aggro from you, both tanks can recover just fine. If no-one does... you usually are not tough enough to take what follows. (the TOMM might be a skippable at the moment - as it is a slow mechanics in an uncapped content, so I guess you can brute-force it now, I don't know)
  • armadeonx
    armadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User

    honestly this is going to be like cradle where everyone leaves as soon as it pops. what the heck is tank swapping anyways?

    Normally one tank would lead Demogorgon away from everyone else and keep him away - with some incoming healing the tank generally has no problem.

    What they want now is for the two tanks in the run to take turns - because the incoming damage is too much for one tank.

    I predict this will not go well in pugs...
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  • autumnwitch
    autumnwitch Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    honestly this is going to be like cradle where everyone leaves as soon as it pops. what the heck is tank swapping anyways?

    Normally one tank would lead Demogorgon away from everyone else and keep him away - with some incoming healing the tank generally has no problem.

    What they want now is for the two tanks in the run to take turns - because the incoming damage is too much for one tank.

    I predict this will not go well in pugs...
    It will be a disaster. I also suspect this is some passive aggressive way to increase the number of people playing a tank but honestly, as someone who does, the ROI with tanks are so much lower and less fun than DPS it's not going to happen for the most part.

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  • wilbur626
    wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,000 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    I think that the introduction of tank swapping (meaning tanks need understand how threat works) is a major mistake, as there is nothing at all explaining to new players what threat is or how it works.
    Add to this that the three different tanks all have different ways to generate threat (Fighter can transfer from closest player, Paladin can heal group, Barbarian can self-heal for example)
    The only thing a new player has access to is some cryptic tooltips telling them that a power generates “increased threat” and some “moves you to top of threat table”.
    For this to work with public groups I strongly advise that you make adjustments to ingame tooltips for clarification and/or even a blogpost where this is explained.

    @nitocris83 @noworries#8859
    Post edited by wilbur626 on
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  • pitshade
    pitshade Member Posts: 5,420 Arc User
    The issue is that a large segment of the game's population don't understand mechanics or make any attempt to learn. They don't read party chat and often don't even respond to Tells. If content involves attacking mobs and bosses they can do that but anything more just isn't in the cards. This is has been the source of so much grief in Throne of the Dwarven Gods, Cradle of the Death God and anywhere else that you can't skip or ignore mechanics. Content that is doable for groups with informed players (generally premades) becomes impossible with queue made groups. (Although perversely enough, it is extremely gratifying when someone does listen and you go on to win.)

    Typically, Cryptic has just dumbed down the content enough to try and push teams through since their whole Random Queue model requires that all content be completable by poor, if not outright bad, teams. It is hard to think that going the opposite direction is going to work out well, unless the devs have decided to just let the bad players go home without daily RAD. (Doubt Meme goes here)
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  • armadeonx
    armadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    I'm finding that the more Cryptic delve into complicated & unavoidable mechanics that are 'follow or fail', the more I miss Guild Wars 2...
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  • rockster#6227
    rockster#6227 Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    By the sounds of it the only hope it's got is if it becomes an elite trial which only has top players who know what they're doing. I think they are going backwards though, the way they had an easy version and a hard version was better, they could have left the easy version for newbs who just spam buttons and then shifted the hard version right up to the top for those who understand what mechanics are. If they make this trial an elite one, once again content is effectively removed/deleted for the majority of players.
  • arazith07
    arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,442 Arc User
    I'm of the opinion that group content should not be made to cater to those that refuse to communicate, or at least listen to what is being said. I also think that trolls in group content should be punished more severely (like those that purposely aim charges in the wrong location, or open green portals when the group says to only open purple ones).