Wizard Power Adjustments

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  • blackmagid
    blackmagid Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 98 Arc User
    wilbur626 said:

    "Thaum- There is no saving that paragon. Scarp it and make a tank- WAR WIZARD 5e D&D. Wizard needs a support paragon, the game needs support players. There are 4 healer classes, there should be 4 tank classes."

    This is the best idea in the history of ideas, please make this change to the wizard.

    +1
  • rjc9000
    rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    wilbur626 said:

    "Thaum- There is no saving that paragon. Scarp it and make a tank- WAR WIZARD 5e D&D. Wizard needs a support paragon, the game needs support players. There are 4 healer classes, there should be 4 tank classes."

    School of Abjuration, Swordmage, Bladesinger, whatever it is, sign me up for the tank Wizard!

  • ravenmadd
    ravenmadd Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    wizard was the most feared class in D&D ( not saying make them top dps but when a Wizard unleashes hell, everyone should run for cover)
  • kalina311
    kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    rjc9000 said:

    wilbur626 said:

    "Thaum- There is no saving that paragon. Scarp it and make a tank- WAR WIZARD 5e D&D. Wizard needs a support paragon, the game needs support players. There are 4 healer classes, there should be 4 tank classes."

    School of Abjuration, Swordmage, Bladesinger, whatever it is, sign me up for the tank Wizard!
    we already had Tank wizard ( I used to play one in Pvp )..then they nerfed shield ...:D thats another encounter power that could use a rework / buff
  • mentinmindmaker
    mentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,375 Arc User
    Ok, I see the wizards got so much opinions and unhappiness bubbling over that it is impossible to keep to the disciplined format Noworries wanted. This is something long coming.

    Let me start with one specific suggestion that was requested:
    * Fireball cast time is WAY too long. In a fast-flowing AE clear most mobs are long dead before it finishes casting. (I love Fireball as a concept.. it is a very traditional Wizard spell, sort of a Wizard signature spell. But it is useless in its current form)

    Then to all the other comments ;)

    Structural adjustments:
    * First thing I would suggest is to specialize the two paragon paths. One AE path, one Single Target path. Each need a full complement(4) working AE respective single target spells(Arcanist do not have enough AE spells today). Smolder does not work for fast AE clears since it is more of a dot type effect. So if you want to build on smolder Thaum likely should be the ST path - ST fights typically are longer(boss fights)
    * Secondly look into cast times. Long cast times do not agree with fast flowing AE clears. Reduced cast times on some of the big hitters should be part of this - overall dps from an encounter is controlled by cooldown times anyways.

    Once the structure is in place, it is time to look at magnitudes.

    Magnitude adjustments:
    It could be argued that since Wizards provide some defensive benfits by control the dps should be less. I have two comments on that:
    * In a ST situation control does not work, since that is typically bosses. So Wizard ST capability need to match other dps paragons.
    * The standing of a class really comes down to the performance on the dps meters. I'll agree that the AE control effects of a wizard DO have value, but if that is used to significantly reduce wizard AE dps the class will be considered sucky. Also other classes with control like Rogue does not seem to have dps any penalties. It is the standing in the parses at the end of run that matters. I would argue wizard dps should be considered like the side-effects other classes have and not lead to any dps reductions. And I will not argue that the current control abilities should be removed, they are part of the uniqueness of the class. Game would be boring if everyone was cookie-cutter plain dps. (Is this an eat your cake and have it too argument? Hmm)

    If it is necessary to tune down wizard AE dps to compensate for the control abilities maybe boost ST performance above others to compensate on the dps parses.

    Lastly, let mention the concept of a focus group to you. A focus group is a small group of people under NDA that get presented concepts early in the product development process to give feedback before a product is pushed to the market. They are used because the company product development staff typically live in their own bubble and do not have the real-life experiences of the customers. Under NDA it allows for frank two-way discussions.
  • bifflinculte
    bifflinculte Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    Smolder needs a huge boost (presently 1-2% of overall dps) and a faster dot. It should be central in thaumaturge builds for both pve and 1v1 situations.
  • carterhimura
    carterhimura Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    Cast animations for smooth and fluid rotation especially under Arcane Empowerment.
  • hunterofdragon7
    hunterofdragon7 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3 Arc User
    Hello,
    Really the most necessary change that I see is to modify the fire branch in some way. Formerly it had a bit of support although now with the arrival of the bard perhaps it could be given a buffer / debuffer roll again. It is also true that with regard to the damage of this branch is very low, with the elimination of the possibility of criticism in the smolder it became unfeasible, we can also add the tiny area of the fireball.
    If we add the lightning branch, we can highlight that in general it needs a little more explosive damage since when you finish throwing your skills they do not give just 2 ticks when the rest of the dps have already eliminated the pull. I feel that compared to others I can develop a worse function.
  • bifflinculte
    bifflinculte Member Posts: 190 Arc User

    I dont agree with all the people asking for 1 path to be AoE and the other single target.

    Why?

    You pick a path because you like the playstile or theme, both paths should be able to be good in Aoe and ST.

    100% agree, both paragons should be viable for pve, boss fights and pvp. Nethertheless, they should have different gameplays. Thaumaturge should be more focused on dot thanks to smolder mecanics and cold/fire rotations, while arcanist gameplay should be more straight and casual.
  • reg1981
    reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,410 Arc User
    buffytyme said:

    Imprisonment needs to be made useful. It is the last power you gain as a wizard and should be "more". It should be worth slotting. Add HIGH amount of damage to it and decrease the recharge speed.

    Also look at the mag to recharge ratio on all powers. It is WAY off compared to the other classes. You can see this for yourself in a dungeon. By the time I am halfway through a rotation most of the mobs are dead and my team is moving on to the next mob while I am stuck in a buggy animation. Arcane Tempest was a good move in the right direction for this as it's cast time is fairly low compared to the other powers. The mag on it is still too low but at least you get to cast a few encounters rather than trying to cast something else with a really long cast time.

    +1 Imprisonment
  • criteastwood#1404
    criteastwood#1404 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1 Arc User
    The Wizard at-will Storm Pillar is very bugged. If you spam it and use your shift, your character is locked in spot and cannot move. Please fix this as it has been an issue for years and is particularly noticeable in VOS when you're killing mobs using your at-will.
  • stepmania#9336
    stepmania#9336 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    single target damage (bosses) the most relevant content for dd in which the mage is the worst now. Give more damage to a single target.
    The fireball has too long animation and does not interact well with the class mechanics (this is not a control skill and does not receive an increase in damage from bludgeoning blow)
    And in general, the mage does not have good fire skills that could be used
  • namtar55#9833
    namtar55#9833 Member Posts: 1 New User
    - Switch conduit of ice with icy terrain, and add a slow effect (added/refreshed every tick) on all mobs hit for the duration.
    - Replace ray of frost with a second, single target, lightning attack.
    - Buff ice and arcane control magnitude; buff fire and lightning damage magnitude.
    - Smoldering DoT is negligible, and thus, not worth using. Should be roughly on par with warlock DoTs to be useful.
    - Make lightning bolt an actual bolt (call lightning is for druids), single target, with 80' range. Mastery could reduce damage done and range to 40', and make it a cone attack (probably easier to adapt than make it chain through enemies).
    - Maelstrom of Chaos is horrible. I've never seen anyone using this power, under any circumstance. Could be remade into a lightning single target attack, with plausible casting time and damage. Like Thor hitting Hela.
  • sgtpostal#4408
    sgtpostal#4408 Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    if i had to pick ..... i wouldnt pick a power so much as cooldown times or cast times (ie. stealtime or fireball) or the damage magnitude or the area of effct of the powers cast (ie, icey terrrain or oppress force) but thats jus my 2 cents being a wixzard main since game came out on ps4............
  • musicskooool#3088
    musicskooool#3088 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    Let me start by saying that the wizard needs more than a ton of work. It needs to be fundamentally changed from the ground up. Too many weak powers, too many pointless powers, too many feats and powers that work incorrectly or inconsistently, 4 encounter slots but only 2-3 useful aoe encounters per paragon, etc.

    That being said, it is extremely difficult to single out one power that changing can IMPROVE the class by a fair margin. Many comments here address things that should be removed with no suggestions as to what to change it to in order to improve the power or the class. Though I think it is almost impossible I'm going to attempt to single out one power that I think would actuall improve performance on the class at least a little bit by buffing it. I don't expect my opinion to be popular but I've never really care about that anyways.

    Chilling Cloud- Thaumaturge Paragon At-will:

    Currently, it deals 65 magnitude and on the final hit of the three-hit combo, it adds chill to all targets. I would suggest the following changes:

    Make all three hits attack nearby targets in a 20 foot radius (a little more than icy terrain).
    Add a stack of chill for to each target for each enemy hit up to max chill stacks.

    This will absolutely not fix the class by any means, especially since it only addresses on paragon, but this is an example of how you can take something currently in the game and work with as opposed to just saying "it's bad, delete it." The current aoe splash on the third hit of chilling cloud is horrible, and it can't even hit the adjacent dummy in the stronghold on the third hit. Usually mobs are much more spread out than that or they are dead before they're grouped up enough to be able to use at wills. Being able to hit more mobs and get chill stacks up faster without solely relying on Icy Terrain may help improve aoe damage. People may argue that most damage is dealt in boss fights, but I think the wizard is currently better off in single target than it is in aoe.

    I'll make one more suggestion as an extension to this idea; hopefully you consider this as one power and allow the suggestion.

    Make Chilling Cloud and Ray of Frost the 2 Universal At-Wills. For consistency. I think the chill at-wills should be on both paragons, which would be nice following my suggestion as in my suggestion this would result in a buff for both paragons. If you made this swap, the Thamauturge specific at-wills would be Scorching Burst and Storm Pillar, and the Arcanist specific at-wills would be Magic Missle and Arcane Bolt. This way, each path has advanced at-wills that actually coincide with their paragons and the style of magic their supposed to be revolving around.

    This ONE power change would solicit a slew of other changes like the at-will swaps I suggested, as well as many other things that would be required in order to make both wizard paragons functional and enjoyable to play with distinct builds and playstyles, but hopefully this change is one that could at least provide some damage increase without having to change other powers.
  • damnacious
    damnacious Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 353 Arc User

    Before we go about buffing the Wizard, can we please address some of the many known bugs? Below is perhaps the most impactful bug that impacts the Arcanist damage output.

    Bug Report:

    The Arcanist feat Striking Advantage is supposed to have a 20% chance to proc (when benefiting from combat advantage positioning), as stated in the tooltip. However, the actual proc chance in-game is around 5%. This has been a bug for over a year now and has been reported countless times. Fixing this, and this alone, would have a very large impact on the Wizard's endgame single target damage.


    As others have pointed out, there are plenty of other bugs plaguing the Wizard, but if I'm only allowed to comment about one, then fixing Striking Advantage is my choice.

    +1
  • noworries#8859
    noworries#8859 Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 651 Cryptic Developer
    For the striking advantage callout:

    The power triggers off of at-will, encounter, daily attacks
    Has a 1 second cooldown
    Checks for combat advantage against the target and then does a 20% chance


    With that information, do people still feel it isn't proccing as often as it should? Or is it that the other parts of it weren't called out and people were expecting it on all forms of damage and with no cooldown at all?
  • noworries#8859
    noworries#8859 Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 651 Cryptic Developer
    For the comments on ray of frost being the only good at-will

    This comment has been approached in different ways but one of the comments didn't match up with what I expect. And that is the comment that it is the only at-will that does decent damage. On a direct damage over time, the at-wills should be similar. I tried a short test of Magic Missile compared to Ray of Frost and the final damage was near exact.

    So is the comment more that in conjunction with other powers, ray of frost is more valuable? Is it that for a given paragon path that paragon at-wills aren't considered good and magic missile doesn't match up with what the player is doing for damage increases?

    Want to make sure I'm drilling down into the specific concerns/issues.
  • mickbroster#9925
    mickbroster#9925 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    > @mr9000rpm#7375 said:
    > I'll take a stab at this one for us. Ray of frost ultimately is our best at will for these reasons.
    > - The use of the chilling presence class feature in combination with ray of frost helps us get most damage potential as of now
    > - Due to its channeling nature we are able to continuously hold our button down channeling it even between encounters to sneak in an extra damage tick that you cannot do with the other at wills.
    > - The ability to channel between encounters allows us to proc elemental reinforcement nicely with it
    > - Ray of frost is the only at will that has synergy with snap freeze
    > - Ray of frost procs weapon enchants quicker than other at wills with each tick
  • mickbroster#9925
    mickbroster#9925 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    +1 this
    Like for like hit for magic missile and ray of frost may be close but with the above mentioned list Ray of frost becomes the only viable option. Combine that with magic missile rooting you to the spot makes it a very poor choice
    Plus they are very under powered compared to many other classes
  • bifflinculte
    bifflinculte Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    edited August 2021

    For the comments on ray of frost being the only good at-will

    This comment has been approached in different ways but one of the comments didn't match up with what I expect. And that is the comment that it is the only at-will that does decent damage. On a direct damage over time, the at-wills should be similar. I tried a short test of Magic Missile compared to Ray of Frost and the final damage was near exact.

    So is the comment more that in conjunction with other powers, ray of frost is more valuable? Is it that for a given paragon path that paragon at-wills aren't considered good and magic missile doesn't match up with what the player is doing for damage increases?

    Want to make sure I'm drilling down into the specific concerns/issues.

    Rof generates more AP than mm, and triggers much more extra damage from the bilethorn enchantment. It adds chill very fast (control, chilling presence, snap freeze/shatter strike).

    Mm's only advantage is to generate arcane stacks, but at slow rate.

    Only chilling cloud has better dps than rof, even in 1v1, but only if the bilethorn enchantment is off.
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