Before todays change the Briartwine armor enchant reflected x% of all incoming damage (no cooldown) and a stun effect (with cooldown). After todays change, Ive only seen the reflect procc 1-2 times during a few hours of gameplay.
Elite Whaleboy
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Wow that vorpal change was.... unespected. Really. I cant think in how many vorpals are bound in the game since last exchange. Wow. Make it at least usefull. Even it lost his "thematical" theme. A vorpal weapon is a deadly one, well not anymore.
Note that I dont use vorpal but I feel the pain of those who do.
Enchants should open more builds, if you are going to change them, please come with something more creative. x% to a stat? meh. Ask us for ideas. I wont write here a wall of possible ideas if those will be ignored. You didnt even tell us that enchantments were going to be reworked.
There were asks to make sure enchants were working on the percents and not the ratings. There were also asks to change Vorpal because people felt Crit Severity was easy to get and vorpal does not push crit severity over the cap.
I have no issue swapping vorpal back to crit severity if people prefer it to stay there.
I would keep critical strike, but up the percentages of all weapon enchantments. After all we can only have one weapon enchantment slotted at a time and they are very expensive to get up to Rank 14.
There were asks to make sure enchants were working on the percents and not the ratings. There were also asks to change Vorpal because people felt Crit Severity was easy to get and vorpal does not push crit severity over the cap.
I have no issue swapping vorpal back to crit severity if people prefer it to stay there.
but if changed the vorpal back to crit severity, it is count over the cap (110% with at-will, encounter and daily, and 90% for the rest) or counts towards the 90% cap?, because before the patch the vorpal crit severity counted over the cap.
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
There were asks to make sure enchants were working on the percents and not the ratings. There were also asks to change Vorpal because people felt Crit Severity was easy to get and vorpal does not push crit severity over the cap.
I have no issue swapping vorpal back to crit severity if people prefer it to stay there.
but if changed the vorpal back to crit severity, it is count over the cap (110% with at-will, encounter and daily, and 90% for the rest) or counts towards the 90% cap?, because before the patch the vorpal crit severity counted over the cap.
It was a bug that it went over the cap. It is meant to be part of the "other contributions".
> @rubytrue said: > You see, that's just it. With the prior changes on preview, you needed a tank for group content that was below TOMM or Zariel. With this new update, we are back we were and tanks are irrelevant for any content below TOMM and Zariel.....`
I would love to see a group finish Infernal Citadel without a tank now that the defense changes are implemented! If you have such a group, please do share video and ACT logs of this!
so it apears flaming was buffed to be in line with bile but it's 3 burn ticks over 3 seconds are being canceled by each consecutive hit im wandering if this is intended or it is buged and suposed to be procing as the bile dose? also i tested on live and it is giving its 3 ticks on every hit
> You see, that's just it. With the prior changes on preview, you needed a tank for group content that was below TOMM or Zariel. With this new update, we are back we were and tanks are irrelevant for any content below TOMM and Zariel.....`
I would love to see a group finish Infernal Citadel without a tank now that the defense changes are implemented! If you have such a group, please do share video and ACT logs of this!
@wilbur626 Touche, but I would consider TIC between TOMM and Zariel...I probably should of made myself a bit more clear on that. Let me amend that to any content released before TOMM....
Is there a counter stat to defense now that armor pen is gone? If not....what makes these two enchants different?
Dread Enchantment now reduces the target’s Defense by up to 4%.
Bronzewood Enchantment’s mark now causes targets to take up to 6% more damage from you and your allies.
There is no counter to defense now, but power is opposite. They could set them up to cancel each other but they didn't.
Dread reduces defense by 4%. IF the enemy has 90% defense, then you and your allies will deal 2.15% more damage against the target now. If the enemy has 4% defense, you and allies deal 3.9% more damage. If the target has no defense, then damage is not increased, unless a bug exists allowing defense to go into negative numbers.
Bronze, on the other hand just multiplies damage versus the target by 6% directly, always.
So we will be able to exchange that vorpal right ?
We can put vorpal back to critical severity, but people were saying they didn't want that as they were finding it easy to cap critical severity, and vorpal did not go over that cap. It also only applied to At-Wills, Encounters, and Daily attacks. Whereas now it is a direct increase to critical strike so it works on all attacks including mounts and artifacts.
I want to point out that if you capped crit severity at 90% and used a Vorpal you actually had 110% critical severity so it went above the cap.
Also when the bosses had 10% armpen I just made my defense 100% and negated the 10% armpen (stat sheet said I had 90% ). I could never go above 90% mitigation so overcapping was only useful for the enemies with armpen.
I suspect, in the future, that they will uncap power and defense, or rework the system all over again. I'm only saying this because DPS is only about 50% away from being able to cap all offensive ratings. How long will that last?
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
I suspect, in the future, that they will uncap power and defense, or rework the system all over again. I'm only saying this because DPS is only about 50% away from being able to cap all offensive ratings. How long will that last?
Thing is, the higher your TiL goes, the harder it will be to cap stats, at least the ratings side. The only thing that actually goes up is HP and base damage.
I am worried by @noworries#8859 upgradings, how wiII heaIer's heaIingsbenefit from vorpaI now? and instead of giving that poor minor magnitude heaI, give hoIy avenger a 4% outgoing heaI bonus and 4% incoming heaI bonus for aIIies heaIed by the heaIings, for 10 secs, with a 10 secs cooIdown, how is the change to bronzewood any good? on Iive its buff is 10%, and now is 6%? this is a nerf
Bronze, on the other hand just multiplies damage versus the target by 6% directly, always.
Bronzewood increases the damage that the target takes by 6% for 10 seconds, every 20 seconds, then it is not "always 6%", it is on average 3% more damage
I do like the changes overall and thank you to @noworries#8859 for the companions adjustement. I did another few tests and I found that now non augment companions deals around 8-10% from my total damage which is a sweet spot imo. Regarding weapon enchantments those type of weapons used for dps should be adjusted to mach the bilethorn performance which is in the perfect spot right now. I would like to mention in this list: Flaming Enchantment, Plague Fire Enchantment, Vorpal Enchantment and I am not sure about Prominence but I have reported in the past problems regarding this enchant that underperformed by alot. Any of those enchantments should contribute around 8-10% to overall damage. I did a test on preview after yesterday update and found that Flaming enchantment still underperforms by alot. I haven`t yet tested a Vorpal since I don`t own one but I can tell than Plague Fire underperforms by around 4%, flaming by 6-7%. It would be nice to give people some variety and focus on class mechanics. I can see them shining in different circumstances like Lightning in AOE, Bilethorn in ST.
Defense/Deflect Severity has now been adjusted to the same scale as the other stats.
100% Defense would reduce damage in half, the same way 100% power would double damage.
This is a huge nerf. We now need 90% defense to take 50% less damage. That's hard to reach. Much harder than it is on live. Additionally tanks get only 20% more HP now instead of 40% more on live. I assume that will make tanks weaker than they are.
Thanks for the fast change of capping defense at 50%, really looking forward to test it At least the other defense stats have a meaning now.
I don't think that's what they did- rather, the cap is 90% but it functions like Power,so it's effectives does not mean enemies only get 10% dmg through to you but rather 1/1.9x dmg through to you aka 52%
According to ACT having 90% defense let's you take 50% damage.
Defense/Deflect Severity has now been adjusted to the same scale as the other stats.
100% Defense would reduce damage in half, the same way 100% power would double damage.
This is totally confusing. Why would 100% defense halve the damage? If 100% damage gets avoided one would take 0% damage. That would be logical. Zero defense means 100% damage taken.
With power it is different because we start with 100% damage for zero power.
Please elaborate on the math here. This seems to be a lame excuse for reducing the effectivness of defense.
Btw. following your own logic here you'd have to change all stats to behave the same. E.g. a critical strike value of 100% would then mean that you only critically hit 50% of the time, and not 100% as the value implies.
Now that'd be confusing, wouldn't it? But at least it would be the same for all stats. How would someone know that defense behaves differently?
wow i realy have no insentive anymore to level up my weapon enchant, how i see it now the increadible cost of getting them to r14 is not at all worth an increase of 2% in whatever stat they give. it's supposed to be a mayor thing to have a maxed out weapon/armor enchant, if the bonuses are so minor and make so little of an impact i think i'll keep running end game content with my r7 and r9 enchant
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
"Natural occurrence" yet there was a solution to it to make tanks needed everywhere. How would dps like being told "you're only useful in latest content, its better if we have more healers".
You are right that tanks not needed. I can't say if it's the same with the new scaling on preview. But the defense thing, It wasn't a good solution, it will also make tanks not wanted in any new (or if scaling works and content is adjusted, then any) content unless they have the relevant stats capped to the decimal digits, creating the highest entry barrier in the game, unlike other roles who have lessened difference if it's 80% power or 90% or whatever. That capping, to the decimal, I guess will also not be cheap to do.
IMO, there are probably better ways to adjust tanks than that. IMO it's a bit like shooting yourself in the foot. Maybe increased mitigation on block, or stamina larger percent of HP, and some such..
interesting .maybe it will really matter the skill and knowledge of your build and class. most of the player base is BIS focus .very few know how,why and when to use the at-wills,encounter and daily powers ,the class features and feats many dont know for what they are for .that is the explication of the outcry and the bitchering. the fear that you have to use your brain for once and be yourself ,not just a copy of some content creator build. im waiting for the end of the preview faze ,but i do have some expectation ....... 1 cryptic devs will do some good stuff 2 cryptic devs will do some bad stuff 3 cryptic devs will do more stuff bad if they will listen to much from the "good intentionate players " 4.....
> @fdsakhfduewhfiuf said: > This is a huge nerf. We now need 90% defense to take 50% less damage. That's hard to reach. Much harder than it is on live. Additionally tanks get only 20% more HP now instead of 40% more on live. I assume that will make tanks weaker than they are. > > This feels bad.
Instead of assuming, you should hop on preview to test and give proper feedback. Tanks are stronger than ever if build properly, so posters that keep giving negative feedback on the defense changes make themselves look like weirdos. 😂
Wow that vorpal change was.... unespected. Really. I cant think in how many vorpals are bound in the game since last exchange. Wow. Make it at least usefull. Even it lost his "thematical" theme. A vorpal weapon is a deadly one, well not anymore.
Note that I dont use vorpal but I feel the pain of those who do.
Enchants should open more builds, if you are going to change them, please come with something more creative. x% to a stat? meh. Ask us for ideas. I wont write here a wall of possible ideas if those will be ignored. You didnt even tell us that enchantments were going to be reworked.
There were asks to make sure enchants were working on the percents and not the ratings. There were also asks to change Vorpal because people felt Crit Severity was easy to get and vorpal does not push crit severity over the cap.
I have no issue swapping vorpal back to crit severity if people prefer it to stay there.
Crit severity is very easy to cap because of elixirs and potions. Just by using 2 of them grants 17.5% crit sev, which is an extreme amount. If those elixirs and potions get balanced then crit sev will not be easy to cap. So vorpal would be useful then.
Please take a look at all weapon enchantments again. Bilethorn performs way better compared to others and it is bugged with many powers. Please dont let 1 or 2 enchants being best in slot and all others being useless. Make them close in dealing damage, and give them similar bonuses for different stats maybe. So people can choose for the bonus which fits their build, or even choose visually because they like it. Please give us more choices on choosing weapon enchantments.
I suspect, in the future, that they will uncap power and defense, or rework the system all over again. I'm only saying this because DPS is only about 50% away from being able to cap all offensive ratings. How long will that last?
Forever. There is no way to get more than there already is. (except a major rework of potions or a major item bonus overhaul) Any stats come with IL, IL increases stat cap. You are moving nowhere. Quite the contrary, actually. The more IL you have, all the stats put into a specific aspect are watered down. At 50k IL it is not much difference between putting 500 points to power and defence - the change in your % stats would be exactly 1%... which is a bit too little as getting 500 specific stats is not exactly easy.
If you ever reach full mount and full companion bolster, there is not much to improve. At least, there certainly is no reason to put too much of an effort to change a piece of gear for some other to gain a meagre 500IL increase, or to switch some stat to another. You would not notice the difference if the change means just 1% improvement.
After your proposal i jumped back into preview, and i have to say. My tank finaly takes damage even in eCC. Those are good changes and it seems like, tanks will be needed after all and a healer ofc. Didn't test with dps, not enough time.
I'm fine with vorpal being crit chance, but should be increased a bit from 4%. Vorpal seems very weak considering with 90% crit sev 4% crit rate is probably about 3-3.5% dmg, bilethorn 60 magnitude hits (not including the 8% dmg on at-will, daily, encounter) does 5-11% depending on class. If vorpal was 8% crit rate it could be better than bilethorn on certain dps classes. Also enchants like dread/flaming/frost/plague fire provide similar dmg to vorpal but also provide a bonus to the whole team.
I don't do PvP, but this stat system may have a big disparity between PvE and PvP. In PvE, all dps players are going to max their accuracy. If these builds are taken over to PvP... then deflection and deflect severity are useless there. To counter PvE style builds in PvP, defenders will max defense first, then crit avoid, then awareness, in that order. Crit avoid in PvP, kills opposing stats on a 2:1 ratio. The dps PvP builds will probably be Power, accuracy, CA, Defense, Crit avoid, and awareness.
In short... deflect/severity & critical/severity will be avoided in PvP, because they cost 180% to make good, but only cost 90% to make completely worthless.
Why are we limiting stat totals? Who cares if players go over 50% stat and 40% bonus? Why can't we just make it open ended?
SUGGESTION: Raise the max to 100% in every category, and allow it to be from any combination (stats or bonus).
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
Wow that vorpal change was.... unespected. Really. I cant think in how many vorpals are bound in the game since last exchange. Wow. Make it at least usefull. Even it lost his "thematical" theme. A vorpal weapon is a deadly one, well not anymore.
Note that I dont use vorpal but I feel the pain of those who do.
Enchants should open more builds, if you are going to change them, please come with something more creative. x% to a stat? meh. Ask us for ideas. I wont write here a wall of possible ideas if those will be ignored. You didnt even tell us that enchantments were going to be reworked.
There were asks to make sure enchants were working on the percents and not the ratings. There were also asks to change Vorpal because people felt Crit Severity was easy to get and vorpal does not push crit severity over the cap.
I have no issue swapping vorpal back to crit severity if people prefer it to stay there.
First thank you for the replay, we aprecieate that you are even working in the weekend.
Maybe you didnt understand my post, or maybe I can be more clear now: What I wanted to say is that If you are taking the precious time to work in the enchants, do it with balance and diversity in mind.
I dont want critical severity back. Critical strike can be OK. But 4%? a companion gives 7,5% and we can have 5!.
I wont count the bonus when using a daily. I will give you an example: - 4% increase in critical strike (other contributions) - When you make a critical hit, there is a X% chance that the enemy gets a Y magnitude damage (this could be more thematical with vorpal)
but we can have other ideas, like when you make a critical hit, reduce the cooldowns of encounter powers in X sec (Y sec cooldown) or other ideas that can enable unique builds.
Or When you make a critical hit, there is a 1% chance to give half the Action points, ask us for ideas if you are willing to change enchants, we can come with something interesting for each, and make all desirable (more or less).
But this is not only about vorpal. Is also important that the other enchants changed are balanced, Now, only 1 or 2 are viable, and the same with armor enchantments.
> @arazith07 said: > There really weren't any arguments supported by facts against it. Just feeling and thoughts. Feedback was taken from those who suggested things with actual numbers and such. Tanks will still be required for endgame content, if you can prove that a dps can tank ToMM or Zariel with the changes on preview now, feel free to show it and continue doing so as damage gets adjusted.
Of course that tanks are still going to be relevant in endgame content. It's just that they won't be relevant in the other 99% of the game's content
Comments
Before todays change the Briartwine armor enchant reflected x% of all incoming damage (no cooldown) and a stun effect (with cooldown). After todays change, Ive only seen the reflect procc 1-2 times during a few hours of gameplay.
> It was a bug that it went over the cap. It is meant to be part of the "other contributions".
Then it is better now, but they should increase the percentages a little
> You see, that's just it. With the prior changes on preview, you needed a tank for group content that was below TOMM or Zariel. With this new update, we are back we were and tanks are irrelevant for any content below TOMM and Zariel.....`
I would love to see a group finish Infernal Citadel without a tank now that the defense changes are implemented! If you have such a group, please do share video and ACT logs of this!
Dread Enchantment now reduces the target’s Defense by up to 4%.
Bronzewood Enchantment’s mark now causes targets to take up to 6% more damage from you and your allies.
Touche, but I would consider TIC between TOMM and Zariel...I probably should of made myself a bit more clear on that. Let me amend that to any content released before TOMM....
Dread reduces defense by 4%. IF the enemy has 90% defense, then you and your allies will deal 2.15% more damage against the target now. If the enemy has 4% defense, you and allies deal 3.9% more damage. If the target has no defense, then damage is not increased, unless a bug exists allowing defense to go into negative numbers.
Bronze, on the other hand just multiplies damage versus the target by 6% directly, always.
Also when the bosses had 10% armpen I just made my defense 100% and negated the 10% armpen (stat sheet said I had 90%
This feels bad.
With power it is different because we start with 100% damage for zero power.
Please elaborate on the math here. This seems to be a lame excuse for reducing the effectivness of defense.
Btw. following your own logic here you'd have to change all stats to behave the same. E.g. a critical strike value of 100% would then mean that you only critically hit 50% of the time, and not 100% as the value implies.
Now that'd be confusing, wouldn't it? But at least it would be the same for all stats. How would someone know that defense behaves differently?
it's supposed to be a mayor thing to have a maxed out weapon/armor enchant, if the bonuses are so minor and make so little of an impact i think i'll keep running end game content with my r7 and r9 enchant
But the defense thing, It wasn't a good solution, it will also make tanks not wanted in any new (or if scaling works and content is adjusted, then any) content unless they have the relevant stats capped to the decimal digits, creating the highest entry barrier in the game, unlike other roles who have lessened difference if it's 80% power or 90% or whatever. That capping, to the decimal, I guess will also not be cheap to do.
IMO, there are probably better ways to adjust tanks than that. IMO it's a bit like shooting yourself in the foot.
Maybe increased mitigation on block, or stamina larger percent of HP, and some such..
most of the player base is BIS focus .very few know how,why and when to use the at-wills,encounter and daily powers ,the class features and feats many dont know for what they are for .that is the explication of the outcry and the bitchering. the fear that you have to use your brain for once and be yourself ,not just a copy of some content creator build.
im waiting for the end of the preview faze ,but i do have some expectation .......
1 cryptic devs will do some good stuff
2 cryptic devs will do some bad stuff
3 cryptic devs will do more stuff bad if they will listen to much from the "good intentionate players "
4.....
> This is a huge nerf. We now need 90% defense to take 50% less damage. That's hard to reach. Much harder than it is on live. Additionally tanks get only 20% more HP now instead of 40% more on live. I assume that will make tanks weaker than they are.
>
> This feels bad.
Instead of assuming, you should hop on preview to test and give proper feedback. Tanks are stronger than ever if build properly, so posters that keep giving negative feedback on the defense changes make themselves look like weirdos. 😂
Please take a look at all weapon enchantments again. Bilethorn performs way better compared to others and it is bugged with many powers. Please dont let 1 or 2 enchants being best in slot and all others being useless. Make them close in dealing damage, and give them similar bonuses for different stats maybe. So people can choose for the bonus which fits their build, or even choose visually because they like it. Please give us more choices on choosing weapon enchantments.
Any stats come with IL, IL increases stat cap. You are moving nowhere. Quite the contrary, actually. The more IL you have, all the stats put into a specific aspect are watered down. At 50k IL it is not much difference between putting 500 points to power and defence - the change in your % stats would be exactly 1%... which is a bit too little as getting 500 specific stats is not exactly easy.
If you ever reach full mount and full companion bolster, there is not much to improve. At least, there certainly is no reason to put too much of an effort to change a piece of gear for some other to gain a meagre 500IL increase, or to switch some stat to another. You would not notice the difference if the change means just 1% improvement.
After your proposal i jumped back into preview, and i have to say. My tank finaly takes damage even in eCC. Those are good changes and it seems like, tanks will be needed after all and a healer ofc. Didn't test with dps, not enough time.
Cheers
In short... deflect/severity & critical/severity will be avoided in PvP, because they cost 180% to make good, but only cost 90% to make completely worthless.
Why are we limiting stat totals? Who cares if players go over 50% stat and 40% bonus? Why can't we just make it open ended?
SUGGESTION: Raise the max to 100% in every category, and allow it to be from any combination (stats or bonus).
Maybe you didnt understand my post, or maybe I can be more clear now: What I wanted to say is that If you are taking the precious time to work in the enchants, do it with balance and diversity in mind.
I dont want critical severity back. Critical strike can be OK. But 4%? a companion gives 7,5% and we can have 5!.
I wont count the bonus when using a daily. I will give you an example:
- 4% increase in critical strike (other contributions)
- When you make a critical hit, there is a X% chance that the enemy gets a Y magnitude damage (this could be more thematical with vorpal)
but we can have other ideas, like when you make a critical hit, reduce the cooldowns of encounter powers in X sec (Y sec cooldown) or other ideas that can enable unique builds.
Or When you make a critical hit, there is a 1% chance to give half the Action points, ask us for ideas if you are willing to change enchants, we can come with something interesting for each, and make all desirable (more or less).
But this is not only about vorpal. Is also important that the other enchants changed are balanced, Now, only 1 or 2 are viable, and the same with armor enchantments.
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> There really weren't any arguments supported by facts against it. Just feeling and thoughts. Feedback was taken from those who suggested things with actual numbers and such. Tanks will still be required for endgame content, if you can prove that a dps can tank ToMM or Zariel with the changes on preview now, feel free to show it and continue doing so as damage gets adjusted.
Of course that tanks are still going to be relevant in endgame content. It's just that they won't be relevant in the other 99% of the game's content