As a player who has played for years as often as I can, I'm angry and disappointed. I have never gotten a legendary out of any lockbox. I feel it was way wrong for people who abused the glitch, with that being said please make it easier to play more and pay less.
Yeah its very unfair on those who have paid out a lot of money on keys/VIP. Especially as they could have left it as it was for 24 hours to give everyone a chance at the legendary mount and then remove any extra mounts gotten this way.
But that could have hit Cryptic so hard financially [loss of income from VIP/keys] that the game shuts down and what's the point of a legendary mount if the game closes down?
But it was known on preview so another huge mistake that really should never have happened, maybe a free purple mount or companion of choice to those who have VIP and didn't get the leg mount?
due to this......this game knocked itself down - maybe when you will be banned? and has everything to be rewritten in their private policy? nobody knows
At the end of the Day - it's a business, and the devs have to do whatever it takes to make it a profitable one, or we have no platform to have fun with. I commend them admitting that they made a mistake, but they need to be very careful in how they resolve it. My only caveat would be that they remove the requirement for wards to upgrade items. Especially when having wards still does not guarantee an upgrade to begin with.
As many of you are aware, the launch of Infernal Descent brought with it some unexpected behavior with the Stardock Lockbox. Compared with a normal launch day lockbox, the Stardock Lockbox awarded more legendary mounts while it was active - we will cover that in a moment.
First, no one that got a legendary mount from that box has to worry. The mount is yours to enjoy, and if it was your first legendary mount then congratulations!
So what happened there?
We have been exploring improved chase item odds in lockboxes internally. This has been an ongoing experiment, and while it wasn't ready to release yet for a few reasons, the exploratory work had been done during the same time as other Infernal Descent (M18) work. When we decided to hold the changes for a later release, we missed the Stardock lockbox and players experienced a partial set of changes to that lock box in the early hours of launch
Why are we exploring changes to lock boxes? While these chase items are meant to be rare and valuable, they may be more difficult to acquire than is good for the long term health of the game. With this in mind, we have been experimenting with ways to improve the experience for everyone.
We did not intend to release any changes until this had been discussed with the community and more thoroughly with the team. We alluded to some exploration of this variety in online streams, but no final plan has been decided on yet. Before committing to changes of this type, we want to make sure that the changes overall felt good to the player base and equally work for the business.
We apologize for this error and we are actively working to improve our release quality in regards to both our development pipeline and our QA test plans. Issues like this, in time, will hopefully become a thing of the past.
Let’s use this opportunity to collaborate on this aspect of the game as we did with the accessibility topic and evolve VIP. The discussion for the CDP Topic: VIP can be found here.
Chris W.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,403Arc User
edited January 2020
Personally, I don't care regarding the outcome. Allowing them to keep it, take them away, ban them, punish them are not important to me. They are all indifference to me. Cryptic can choose how to 'settle' it.
What I care was the cause. This is not the first time. I saw that many times already. This is the Nth times. Will that happen again? Will they have the check list to prevent that to happen? Will that happen again with the same thing during the console release?
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I hope you see what you've walked into now. Doesn't matter how you fixed this. Someone would walk away unhappy. I don't agree with most of the entitled crowd that think they should be given a mount because they weren't around. I don't agree with removing the mounts from players that got one.
However, I do agree with people in here saying this post comes off as a concocted excuse to cover up for a bug.
This is a clear indicator of the type of issues that hit with every single mod release. Bugs that have lingered, new bugs, bugs that were reported, etc etc.
It won't take much for this community to lose faith in the new era being ushered in when the very first mod released under your watch launches arguably one of the biggest bugs in NW history.
I think it is a good choice, not to ban anybody for an exploit that was already reported on preview, but not fixed on live. This is what Chris promised, and he was true to his promise.
However, - banning people for an issue that could have been fixed, and/or - taking away any profit gained through an unfair advantage are two entirely different things.
Many people exploited the "glitch", knowing it was not working as intended. They should not be banned, but they should not be able to profit from exploiting either.
So the IMO best solution would have been: - remove all mounts gained (including the unsold mounts in AH) during the time period when the "glitch" was still ongoing - recompensate the players, for which any mounts were removed, with - say 2 - lockbox keys (after all, some of them might have not known that they were actually exploiting). - the number of keys received as "compensation" should be independent of the number of mounts removed [people exploiting the "glitch" for more than 1 mount do not deserve to be re-compensated for the keys "lost" during the process]
Probably was too difficult for Cryptic to do the programming. Therefore they let the exploiters profit from their exploits.
I mean i dont mine a refund of my 300 dollars trying to get that pack if they would like to refund everyone idk how they will fix this for paying customers who did not have chance to get free one we will have to tune in to there next stream to see what they do to fix this
I expected a rollback. At the risk of pissing a lot of people off though: this topic is over. It's too late to do a rollback and if they say "ok let everyone that opened boxes keep 1" then other players will get angry that they are excluded. If they say "let everyone, regardless whether or not they opened boxes, get 1 for free" then new players coming in after will get angry... There is no pleasing everyone, its frustrating but doing anything at this point would only mess things up further.
i agree - everyone should keep what he get….but i dont think they can remove the drop of the legendary packs cause we all know that only the first drop is visible in the log for about a minute and the other legendary drops are unseen in that time. Maybe they didnt backup the servers in that time. And that has nothing to do to make the game profitable. A reroll i think saved the game and the market. But it is what it is...a very, very bad smell
So basically you are admitting the lockboxes have an internal mechanism that allows developers to alter the drop rates whenever they please. I realise the information says there is "a chance" of getting a legendary drop, but people I think naturally assume this chance is consistent. If there was no intent on Cryptic's part to modify those chances on a regular basis, then why not code that as a constant variable that could not be changed?
> @ecrana#2080 said: > Welcome to your first official mod release @cwhitesidedev#9752 > > I hope you see what you've walked into now. Doesn't matter how you fixed this. Someone would walk away unhappy. I don't agree with most of the entitled crowd that think they should be given a mount because they weren't around. I don't agree with removing the mounts from players that got one. > > However, I do agree with people in here saying this post comes off as a concocted excuse to cover up for a bug. > > This is a clear indicator of the type of issues that hit with every single mod release. Bugs that have lingered, new bugs, bugs that were reported, etc etc. > > It won't take much for this community to lose faith in the new era being ushered in when the very first mod released under your watch launches arguably one of the biggest bugs in NW history.
I agree with you but how does a paying customer feel when they try to get the pack and others get it for free to me its not fair i just might have to spend my money else were idk what to do
This exploit was known prior to the release per a forum post titled "Stardock lockbox with 100% legendary drop rate on Preview." At this time it is frustrating that the developers do not take the time to ensure that these bugs or tests, as you say are not fixed prior to release. Sounds like someone failed to do their job and ensure the coding was correct. I think this is wrong and the developers handled this situation rather poorly.
You should of made those packs "character bound" since you chose to let them keep them. What about us that have played and paid; some of us didn't even know this was happening and other that did know did not want to be banned for taking advantage of a known bug(exploit). These people are able to make millions of AD on these free gifts from you or at least get their first legendary mount.
You all need to reevaluate your mission and function. You work with other companies to bring these games to life so it is not only your reputation on the line. You have pissed off the greater community and I hope you see this but you probably won't because your business partners do not realize the extent you have let this game devolve.
kk- i dupe my entry cause the other thread should be covered - all those players who didnt have time or whatever to be online in this "event" are the loosers in this part and if you risk a ban you are on the winner side - nothing to explain. The bug was postet in the preview forum and exactly when the new mod started the stardock lockboxes where opened immediately. Before this nobody want to open them. So you can count 1 + 1 yourselve. and fyi - in the first minute you only can see the 1st leg drop from one person we know - all other leg drops arent seen. I can't believe that this is going to be ok
enough time in 3-4 maintenance to do a reroll since mod start
> @greywynd said: > (Quote) > Fairness: try reading the Terms of Service.
Is this a word from the ToS? They don't just want customers. They want happy paying customers. That has nothing to do with the general notion of letting people agree to basically anything in a wall of text they often cannot comprehend fully. (No lecture needed on how everybody needs to read it bla bla bla I did once. No shocker. Morality in this case has nothing to do with their ToS. Just because you are allowed to do something doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
The sad truth. I'm sorry Chris, you were a nice man on stream. But donating legendary mount (12kk) for free is not okay for fair players. I do not want the players who took advantage of the bug banned. It is more about equal treatment for all.
I mean i dont mine a refund of my 300 dollars trying to get that pack if they would like to refund everyone idk how they will fix this for paying customers who did not have chance to get free one we will have to tune in to there next stream to see what they do to fix this
Let me get this straight... I'm not a math wiz, but wouldn't $300 convert to like 150 mil AD (give or take based off current market)? I'm on console so this doesn't even apply to me, but couldn't you have just bought like 18 legendary mounts for that? Is the PC market that much higher? I can't imagine blowing $300 on a CHANCE to win the pack.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,403Arc User
I mean i dont mine a refund of my 300 dollars trying to get that pack if they would like to refund everyone idk how they will fix this for paying customers who did not have chance to get free one we will have to tune in to there next stream to see what they do to fix this
Let me get this straight... I'm not a math wiz, but wouldn't $300 convert to like 150 mil AD (give or take based off current market)? I'm on console so this doesn't even apply to me, but couldn't you have just bought like 18 legendary mounts for that? Is the PC market that much higher? I can't imagine blowing $300 on a CHANCE to win the pack.
When the Zxchg is 500:1, $300 = 30000 Zen = 15 million AD When the Zxchg is 750:1, $300 = 30000 Zen = 22.5 million AD
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Just need to say, when this happened it took less than 20 minutes to lock out the stardock lock boxes. Yet you couldn't fix the bug in 9 days. Sounds like you all need some new programmers and GMs while you're at it. People that listen to bug reports and issues in the game.
Just need to say, when this happened it took less than 20 minutes to lock out the stardock lock boxes. Yet you couldn't fix the bug in 9 days. Sounds like you all need some new programmers and GMs while you're at it. People that listen to bug reports and issues in the game.
We didn't get much on this, and we probably won't, but I would like to get more info on this specifically. Did the bug report register and "yeah we know thats what we tested, we will get that back to normal before launch" and forgot?
When we decided to hold the changes for a later release, we missed the Stardock lockbox and players experienced a partial set of changes to that lock box in the early hours of launch
Because of this, I am curious. Because yeah, okay, theoretically I am assuming now it happened exactly like you posted, @nitocris83 then, did you miss @exgardian s post? There is no way to assume that it is an unrelated issue when people knew it was Stardockbox-related? What am I missing here? WHEN did you decide to hold the changes, before or after exgardians post? Did you miss that, or not?
They want happy paying customers. That has nothing to do with the general notion of letting people agree to basically anything in a wall of text they often cannot comprehend fully.
(No lecture needed on how everybody needs to read it bla bla bla I did once. No shocker. Morality in this case has nothing to do with their ToS.
Just because you are allowed to do something doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
Was this undeserving of the depths, but greywynds and tankreadys post were deserving? In all fairness: If you move something for flaming (broad term, as usual, very appreciative of it lately, thanks), please just move the direct answers too, otherwise nothing will make sense anymore.
It's great that legendary mount droprates will be adjusted. Those things are way too expensive in the Auction House and it's nice to see Cryptic doing the right thing for something that was neither a bug nor an exploit. It was simply an "OOPS!" moment that caused them to reveal something they probably weren't ready to reveal.
Comments
Yeah its very unfair on those who have paid out a lot of money on keys/VIP. Especially as they could have left it as it was for 24 hours to give everyone a chance at the legendary mount and then remove any extra mounts gotten this way.
But that could have hit Cryptic so hard financially [loss of income from VIP/keys] that the game shuts down and what's the point of a legendary mount if the game closes down?
But it was known on preview so another huge mistake that really should never have happened, maybe a free purple mount or companion of choice to those who have VIP and didn't get the leg mount?
I dunno, just glad it wasn't my call to make.
Congrats to everyone who got a legendary pack.
What I care was the cause. This is not the first time. I saw that many times already. This is the Nth times. Will that happen again? Will they have the check list to prevent that to happen? Will that happen again with the same thing during the console release?
I hope you see what you've walked into now. Doesn't matter how you fixed this. Someone would walk away unhappy. I don't agree with most of the entitled crowd that think they should be given a mount because they weren't around. I don't agree with removing the mounts from players that got one.
However, I do agree with people in here saying this post comes off as a concocted excuse to cover up for a bug.
This is a clear indicator of the type of issues that hit with every single mod release. Bugs that have lingered, new bugs, bugs that were reported, etc etc.
It won't take much for this community to lose faith in the new era being ushered in when the very first mod released under your watch launches arguably one of the biggest bugs in NW history.
This is what Chris promised, and he was true to his promise.
However,
- banning people for an issue that could have been fixed, and/or
- taking away any profit gained through an unfair advantage
are two entirely different things.
Many people exploited the "glitch", knowing it was not working as intended.
They should not be banned, but they should not be able to profit from exploiting either.
So the IMO best solution would have been:
- remove all mounts gained (including the unsold mounts in AH) during the time period when the "glitch" was still ongoing
- recompensate the players, for which any mounts were removed, with - say 2 - lockbox keys (after all, some of them might have not known that they were actually exploiting).
- the number of keys received as "compensation" should be independent of the number of mounts removed
[people exploiting the "glitch" for more than 1 mount do not deserve to be re-compensated for the keys "lost" during the process]
Probably was too difficult for Cryptic to do the programming.
Therefore they let the exploiters profit from their exploits.
Maybe they didnt backup the servers in that time.
And that has nothing to do to make the game profitable. A reroll i think saved the game and the market.
But it is what it is...a very, very bad smell
> Welcome to your first official mod release @cwhitesidedev#9752
>
> I hope you see what you've walked into now. Doesn't matter how you fixed this. Someone would walk away unhappy. I don't agree with most of the entitled crowd that think they should be given a mount because they weren't around. I don't agree with removing the mounts from players that got one.
>
> However, I do agree with people in here saying this post comes off as a concocted excuse to cover up for a bug.
>
> This is a clear indicator of the type of issues that hit with every single mod release. Bugs that have lingered, new bugs, bugs that were reported, etc etc.
>
> It won't take much for this community to lose faith in the new era being ushered in when the very first mod released under your watch launches arguably one of the biggest bugs in NW history.
I agree with you but how does a paying customer feel when they try to get the pack and others get it for free to me its not fair i just might have to spend my money else were idk what to do
You should of made those packs "character bound" since you chose to let them keep them. What about us that have played and paid; some of us didn't even know this was happening and other that did know did not want to be banned for taking advantage of a known bug(exploit). These people are able to make millions of AD on these free gifts from you or at least get their first legendary mount.
You all need to reevaluate your mission and function. You work with other companies to bring these games to life so it is not only your reputation on the line. You have pissed off the greater community and I hope you see this but you probably won't because your business partners do not realize the extent you have let this game devolve.
The bug was postet in the preview forum and exactly when the new mod started the stardock lockboxes where opened immediately. Before this nobody want to open them. So you can count 1 + 1 yourselve.
and fyi - in the first minute you only can see the 1st leg drop from one person we know - all other leg drops arent seen.
I can't believe that this is going to be ok
enough time in 3-4 maintenance to do a reroll since mod start
and even if i repeat myself - this is not ok
> (Quote)
> Fairness: try reading the Terms of Service.
Is this a word from the ToS?
They don't just want customers.
They want happy paying customers. That has nothing to do with the general notion of letting people agree to basically anything in a wall of text they often cannot comprehend fully.
(No lecture needed on how everybody needs to read it bla bla bla I did once. No shocker. Morality in this case has nothing to do with their ToS.
Just because you are allowed to do something doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
The sad truth. I'm sorry Chris, you were a nice man on stream. But donating legendary mount (12kk) for free is not okay for fair players.
I do not want the players who took advantage of the bug banned. It is more about equal treatment for all.
and i didnt want to read a ready-made opinion - think about it
When the Zxchg is 750:1, $300 = 30000 Zen = 22.5 million AD
Did the bug report register and "yeah we know thats what we tested, we will get that back to normal before launch" and forgot? Because of this, I am curious. Because yeah, okay, theoretically I am assuming now it happened exactly like you posted, @nitocris83 then, did you miss @exgardian s post? There is no way to assume that it is an unrelated issue when people knew it was Stardockbox-related? What am I missing here? WHEN did you decide to hold the changes, before or after exgardians post? Did you miss that, or not?
E. spelling as always
In all fairness: If you move something for flaming (broad term, as usual, very appreciative of it lately, thanks), please just move the direct answers too, otherwise nothing will make sense anymore.