The Intermediate queue also has a completion rate mostly in the 80%+ range currently.
I suspect that the discrepancy that @noworries#8859 noted between the completion numbers they are seeing and player complaints has a couple of explanations...
First, there are premade groups vs. true "random" groups. Premade groups might have close to a 100% completion rate for any current content (well, maybe not CR, but that's because it is a buggy mess), while random groups might have a much, much lower completion rate. Is there a way to separate those two in the results?
Second, there is the simple fact that people that successfully run the content do not post about it ... those who complain are those who fail, which results in a bias....disproportionally many negative posts.
I have yet to fail any content I have run with a full random group. All content in this game is fairly easy if you learn and pay attention to mechanics.
Really? You are either very lucky or the only player able to solo every dungeon. You can compensate some lacks of othert ppl explain mechanics, but I highly doubt, that every dungeon is completable with one good player and the rest a group of random players. I am talking about RQ. If you enter RQ with a "random group" of players from an elite chat, the story might be different.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
The Intermediate queue also has a completion rate mostly in the 80%+ range currently.
I suspect that the discrepancy that @noworries#8859 noted between the completion numbers they are seeing and player complaints has a couple of explanations...
First, there are premade groups vs. true "random" groups. Premade groups might have close to a 100% completion rate for any current content (well, maybe not CR, but that's because it is a buggy mess), while random groups might have a much, much lower completion rate. Is there a way to separate those two in the results?
Second, there is the simple fact that people that successfully run the content do not post about it ... those who complain are those who fail, which results in a bias....disproportionally many negative posts.
I have yet to fail any content I have run with a full random group. All content in this game is fairly easy if you learn and pay attention to mechanics.
Really? You are either very lucky or the only player able to solo every dungeon. You can compensate some lacks of othert ppl explain mechanics, but I highly doubt, that every dungeon is completable with one good player and the rest a group of random players. I am talking about RQ. If you enter RQ with a "random group" of players from an elite chat, the story might be different.
There are quite a few players who can solo most of the dungeons, and the ones that they can't is usually due to mechanics requiring another person (hand grabs, cocoon in LoMM, etc)
To make them more winnable the number of mob hp added to the zone per time unit should be reduced, to accomodate for lower geared groups.
I second that. Would it be impossible to make the game for whole groups worthwhile by scaling the mobs to the available dps, in a way that still keeps fights tough, but doable? Demonic HEs do scale, in my opionion not well at numbers between 3 and 8, but they do and thus are way more fun than many a skirmish with a group that meets an immense swarm of Batiri whom they cannot deal with.
It's the game who proclaims the thresholds for the queues; it's the game, and not the weakest of players in a random party, who needs to live up to that promise and make it possible to win if a party actually gets their tactics in order. But losing due to stats when stats are "sufficient" is a big No.
I have yet to fail any content I have run with a full random group. All content in this game is fairly easy if you learn and pay attention to mechanics.
The main point of this is that they Pay attention and KNOW the mechanics, been in too many randoms of people not paying attention, don't know the mechanics, or are just gung ho on trying to get on the Paingiver board.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
fix ravenloft !!!! Tired of spending 30+ minutes in a queue to get this nonsense dungeon. Your helping no one when we get stuck having to requeue the dungeon and someone hopefully is willing to take the penalty else we are stuck waiting to vote abandon. if you can't get the queue times down, at least ensure anything that we queue is possible (i.e. remove the dungeon from the queue if your not going to fix your dead content).
Yesterday for RLQ I got into a MotH that was in progress over 18 minutes. Two of the players in Paingiver had zero dps. The top dps was 9K iLvl and already left the run. I moseyed up to the boss and helped finished it in under a minute. That run "succeeded" for me and it was my fastest MotH ever. But to that 9K guy who left, it was a failed run.
I hope all that new metrics the devs have include some that can suss out the AFK farming and multiboxing accounts.
When we put together a premade to do randoms we will regularly get a Tong, MSP, FBI or even a CR that has been abandoned. It's great for our our RAQ because a great deal of the work has already been done, but really must suck for the people that couldn't complete it.
I'd be interested in seeing the percentage of how many abandoned dungeons are later completed by other groups. Particularly the 'harder' ones. Purely for interest sake, not out of any real analytic purpose.
When we put together a premade to do randoms we will regularly get a Tong, MSP, FBI or even a CR that has been abandoned. It's great for our our RAQ because a great deal of the work has already been done, but really must suck for the people that couldn't complete it.
I'd be interested in seeing the percentage of how many abandoned dungeons are later completed by other groups. Particularly the 'harder' ones. Purely for interest sake, not out of any real analytic purpose.
It's also a hint how badly the metrics currently used to collect numbers about completion work. Of course it's complex to piece better ones together, it's a complex matter after all. But to rely on these numbers will only mean to continuously ignore the real difficulties players are facing.
When we put together a premade to do randoms we will regularly get a Tong, MSP, FBI or even a CR that has been abandoned. It's great for our our RAQ because a great deal of the work has already been done, but really must suck for the people that couldn't complete it.
I'd be interested in seeing the percentage of how many abandoned dungeons are later completed by other groups. Particularly the 'harder' ones. Purely for interest sake, not out of any real analytic purpose.
It's also a hint how badly the metrics currently used to collect numbers about completion work. Of course it's complex to piece better ones together, it's a complex matter after all. But to rely on these numbers will only mean to continuously ignore the real difficulties players are facing.
I imagine this same metric is used in meetings to show that things are "in a good place". IMO This metric reinforces a bias that exists in this company. I imagine the boss is telling them to do more with less more quickly. This metric shows that 80% of the content can be completed even with the bugs, balance and scaling issues. In their book this is a BIG WIN. It is in the developers best interest to create a tool that reflects everything being in a "good place" so that they can make that claim to the higher ups with proof, however flawed that proof may be.
I can make a tool/metric to show anything I want, and so can they.
We all know the truth because we see it on the customer / player level. We know that random queues are flawed and a PUG random queue is mostly a waste of time. They (Devs) doubled down on random queues when they introduced them a while ago. They have a bias about random queues that will not change. They are not interested in true metrics because those would show what we have been telling them for years. They know the game is broken and bugged in many areas, but they also have to create new content on schedule. This leads to only putting out the largest game breaking or profit impacting fires and letting the rest smolder in the hopes they will be forgotten or worked around by the playerbase.
So yes it is a complex matter, but I have a feeling that they are not interested making a tool that gives a true representation of this situation public. If they did they would have to admit how broken this game really is.
So yes it is a complex matter, but I have a feeling that they are not interested making a tool that gives a true representation of this situation. If they did they would have to admit how broken this game really is.
What makes you think their metrics don't see that? The dev person said the completion rate metric doesn't care about how many players bailed, not that they don't HAVE a metric for number of players bailing.
So yes it is a complex matter, but I have a feeling that they are not interested making a tool that gives a true representation of this situation. If they did they would have to admit how broken this game really is.
What makes you think their metrics don't see that? The dev person said the completion rate metric doesn't care about how many players bailed, not that they don't HAVE a metric for number of players bailing.
So yes it is a complex matter, but I have a feeling that they are not interested making a tool that gives a true representation of this situation. If they did they would have to admit how broken this game really is.
What makes you think their metrics don't see that? The dev person said the completion rate metric doesn't care about how many players bailed, not that they don't HAVE a metric for number of players bailing.
When we put together a premade to do randoms we will regularly get a Tong, MSP, FBI or even a CR that has been abandoned. It's great for our our RAQ because a great deal of the work has already been done, but really must suck for the people that couldn't complete it.
I will argue that a bit of failrate is and must be a part of RAQ. RAQ is not supposed to be for everyone, RAQ is supposed to be for those that have advanced a bit on the gear scale.
Yet people do always and ever keep signing up for queues that is above their gear level and performance. Whether it a wish to leech, lack of understanding for own performance, or the usual human self-image as superhero of the world I cannot say.. but fact is RAQ sees a number of players that never should have been in RAQ.
Yet people do always and ever keep signing up for queues that is above their gear level and performance. Whether it a wish to leech, lack of understanding for own performance, or the usual human self-image as superhero of the world I cannot say.. but fact is RAQ sees a number of players that never should have been in RAQ.
And they in turn sign up for the leveling queue which is far below their gear level and ruin that content for appropriately geared players. I know it's not the same thing as causing a run to fail, but it's hard to sympathize, particularly with that pervasive culture of scrubism that insists on overgearing for everything because not only is failure not an option - struggling is not an option.
And they in turn sign up for the leveling queue which is far below their gear level and ruin that content for appropriately geared players. I know it's not the same thing as causing a run to fail, but it's hard to sympathize, particularly with that pervasive culture of scrubism that insists on overgearing for everything because not only is failure not an option - struggling is not an option.
Yeah, I agree with that. Lately I haven't had much time to play so I'll do a RLQ because I can solo all of that content - but I have always given other players a chance to engage and actually help complete the dungeon. Because I remember what it was like trying to do cloak tower when I first started playing this game. Getting stuck with masses of mobs that you can't kill while the two 70's had run past everything and gone straight to the door via every shortcut. Yeah, not fun.
...I have always given other players a chance to engage and actually help complete the dungeon...
- not many people with that mindset, that's for sure - takes too much patience and consideration but I have to believe most players with lower-level characters appreciate having someone around who can keep things from getting out of hand. Not much fun for you, though, I guess it's gotten a little less painful since movement speed took a hit.
I bet most end game players still have a loadout with mount, boon, and class movement boosts specifically for RLQ.
I love Manycoins mission. It just needs to be upped 1,000 IL imo. Last mission took quite a while to finish. My tank did 17 million damage. The rest of the team 'combined' dealt 13 million damage.
I really don't see the slight bump to many coins making much of a difference for most groups. I have been in a couple groups since mod 16 that have finished it but those had super high power. even scaled down to 14k. Having tank and healer in the random for that will help but not sure how much it will help. Right now its just a waste of our time.
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It's the game who proclaims the thresholds for the queues; it's the game, and not the weakest of players in a random party, who needs to live up to that promise and make it possible to win if a party actually gets their tactics in order. But losing due to stats when stats are "sufficient" is a big No.
I have yet to fail any content I have run with a full random group. All content in this game is fairly easy if you learn and pay attention to mechanics.
The main point of this is that they Pay attention and KNOW the mechanics, been in too many randoms of people not paying attention, don't know the mechanics, or are just gung ho on trying to get on the Paingiver board.
@nitocris83
fix ravenloft !!!! Tired of spending 30+ minutes in a queue to get this nonsense dungeon. Your helping no one when we get stuck having to requeue the dungeon and someone hopefully is willing to take the penalty else we are stuck waiting to vote abandon. if you can't get the queue times down, at least ensure anything that we queue is possible (i.e. remove the dungeon from the queue if your not going to fix your dead content).
I'd be interested in seeing the percentage of how many abandoned dungeons are later completed by other groups. Particularly the 'harder' ones. Purely for interest sake, not out of any real analytic purpose.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
I can make a tool/metric to show anything I want, and so can they.
We all know the truth because we see it on the customer / player level. We know that random queues are flawed and a PUG random queue is mostly a waste of time. They (Devs) doubled down on random queues when they introduced them a while ago. They have a bias about random queues that will not change. They are not interested in true metrics because those would show what we have been telling them for years. They know the game is broken and bugged in many areas, but they also have to create new content on schedule. This leads to only putting out the largest game breaking or profit impacting fires and letting the rest smolder in the hopes they will be forgotten or worked around by the playerbase.
So yes it is a complex matter, but I have a feeling that they are not interested making a tool that gives a true representation of this situation public. If they did they would have to admit how broken this game really is.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Yet people do always and ever keep signing up for queues that is above their gear level and performance. Whether it a wish to leech, lack of understanding for own performance, or the usual human self-image as superhero of the world I cannot say.. but fact is RAQ sees a number of players that never should have been in RAQ.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
but I have to believe most players with lower-level characters appreciate having someone around who can keep things from getting out of hand. Not much fun for you, though, I guess it's gotten a little less painful since movement speed took a hit.
I bet most end game players still have a loadout with mount, boon, and class movement boosts specifically for RLQ.