Private Wilfred

rev

You really did rename him .... to forgotten adventurer on death forge..

damn #neverforgotten

sandukutupu

They had to do that to fill a plot hole in the tutorial. If you have a new character run the tutorial it plays out much better and Wilfred is standing by Knox when you enter the city.

hustin1

Cryptic must have fired all their storytellers and decided to turn the game into just another MMO. Sad.

nachodx22

If I;m not mistaken, you fight him in one of the Dread Ring minidungeons.

sandukutupu

nachodx22 said:

If I;m not mistaken, you fight him in one of the Dread Ring minidungeons.

That is what the original poster is talking about, he is now renamed in the DF as "forgotten adventurer". It isn't that big of a deal, I never cared for the under developed character attachment. I actually did play your Foundry @hustin1 although I gave you a hard time about it, I did mention it to Foss. I told him, they should talk to you about any additional plots concerning Private Wilfred.

greywynd

Just think, if he hadn't died originally, he might have been a Benton.

hustin1

sandukutupu said:

nachodx22 said:

If I;m not mistaken, you fight him in one of the Dread Ring minidungeons.

That is what the original poster is talking about, he is now renamed in the DF as "forgotten adventurer". It isn't that big of a deal, I never cared for the under developed character attachment. I actually did play your Foundry @hustin1 although I gave you a hard time about it, I did mention it to Foss. I told him, they should talk to you about any additional plots concerning Private Wilfred.

Are you sure you aren't confusing me with @warrians ? His Foundry quests were the "Zero to Hero" series that featured Wilfred. Mine revolved around my redcap village.

sandukutupu

hustin1 said:

sandukutupu said:

nachodx22 said:

If I;m not mistaken, you fight him in one of the Dread Ring minidungeons.

That is what the original poster is talking about, he is now renamed in the DF as "forgotten adventurer". It isn't that big of a deal, I never cared for the under developed character attachment. I actually did play your Foundry @hustin1 although I gave you a hard time about it, I did mention it to Foss. I told him, they should talk to you about any additional plots concerning Private Wilfred.

Are you sure you aren't confusing me with @warrians ? His Foundry quests were the "Zero to Hero" series that featured Wilfred. Mine revolved around my redcap village.

I thought that was one of yours, oh well, not like Thomas Foss is knocking your door down for ideas correct?

thevampinator

hustin1 said:

sandukutupu said:

nachodx22 said:

If I;m not mistaken, you fight him in one of the Dread Ring minidungeons.

That is what the original poster is talking about, he is now renamed in the DF as "forgotten adventurer". It isn't that big of a deal, I never cared for the under developed character attachment. I actually did play your Foundry @hustin1 although I gave you a hard time about it, I did mention it to Foss. I told him, they should talk to you about any additional plots concerning Private Wilfred.

Are you sure you aren't confusing me with @warrians ? His Foundry quests were the "Zero to Hero" series that featured Wilfred. Mine revolved around my redcap village.

Were you that one that had the one redcap questline involving blood magic goblins and had a redcap named Narf? I did play that mission or the one first quest for that. If so it was very fascinating but long. But interesting I was impressed by how you if you were the one that made the quest made the redcaps relate able . They are not just evil monsters they are just trying to survive like anyone else.

playasinnombre

revenantpt said:

You really did rename him .... to forgotten adventurer on death forge..

damn #neverforgotten

#neverforgotten

sandukutupu

thevampinator said:

hustin1 said:

sandukutupu said:

nachodx22 said:

If I;m not mistaken, you fight him in one of the Dread Ring minidungeons.

That is what the original poster is talking about, he is now renamed in the DF as "forgotten adventurer". It isn't that big of a deal, I never cared for the under developed character attachment. I actually did play your Foundry @hustin1 although I gave you a hard time about it, I did mention it to Foss. I told him, they should talk to you about any additional plots concerning Private Wilfred.

Are you sure you aren't confusing me with @warrians ? His Foundry quests were the "Zero to Hero" series that featured Wilfred. Mine revolved around my redcap village.

Were you that one that had the one redcap questline involving blood magic goblins and had a redcap named Narf? I did play that mission or the one first quest for that. If so it was very fascinating but long. But interesting I was impressed by how you if you were the one that made the quest made the redcaps relate able . They are not just evil monsters they are just trying to survive like anyone else.

Basically that is how it goes in all culture's history. In this case, the Iliyanbruen abandoned the lands and the dark fey moved in on it. They started converting the land to their standards. If you think about it, imagine you are a farmer working the land all your life and people that owned it 500 year ago now want it back. They claim you are destroying the land with your farming and irrigation systems. You vile farmer!

hustin1

thevampinator said:

hustin1 said:

sandukutupu said:

nachodx22 said:

If I;m not mistaken, you fight him in one of the Dread Ring minidungeons.

That is what the original poster is talking about, he is now renamed in the DF as "forgotten adventurer". It isn't that big of a deal, I never cared for the under developed character attachment. I actually did play your Foundry @hustin1 although I gave you a hard time about it, I did mention it to Foss. I told him, they should talk to you about any additional plots concerning Private Wilfred.

Are you sure you aren't confusing me with @warrians ? His Foundry quests were the "Zero to Hero" series that featured Wilfred. Mine revolved around my redcap village.

Were you that one that had the one redcap questline involving blood magic goblins and had a redcap named Narf? I did play that mission or the one first quest for that. If so it was very fascinating but long. But interesting I was impressed by how you if you were the one that made the quest made the redcaps relate able . They are not just evil monsters they are just trying to survive like anyone else.

Wow. He made such an impression that you remember his name. I must have done my job!

thevampinator

hustin1 said:

thevampinator said:

hustin1 said:

sandukutupu said:

nachodx22 said:

If I;m not mistaken, you fight him in one of the Dread Ring minidungeons.

That is what the original poster is talking about, he is now renamed in the DF as "forgotten adventurer". It isn't that big of a deal, I never cared for the under developed character attachment. I actually did play your Foundry @hustin1 although I gave you a hard time about it, I did mention it to Foss. I told him, they should talk to you about any additional plots concerning Private Wilfred.

Are you sure you aren't confusing me with @warrians ? His Foundry quests were the "Zero to Hero" series that featured Wilfred. Mine revolved around my redcap village.

Were you that one that had the one redcap questline involving blood magic goblins and had a redcap named Narf? I did play that mission or the one first quest for that. If so it was very fascinating but long. But interesting I was impressed by how you if you were the one that made the quest made the redcaps relate able . They are not just evil monsters they are just trying to survive like anyone else.

Wow. He made such an impression that you remember his name. I must have done my job!

When I was in junor high many years ago a teacher had this show called pinky and the brain she played in the class once in the while. Pinky would say Naarf or Narf!. So yeah I did remember that and well recognized the name! So yeah I thought it was a reference to that. So that is why the name of the Redcap is kinda rememberable to me. Because of that cartoon.

greywynd

Snarf?

bigblackafrica

greywynd said:

Snarf?

That was Thundercats! HOOOOOO!

Pinky and the Brain was part of Animaniacs, then spun off to it's own show.

planestrider

I'd like to add a bit on Private Wildfred, since I think it's been a terrible decision to wipe him from the tutorial. I've been a games writer for fourteen years and will try to feedback as objectively as possible.

So what role fulfilled old Wilfred?
A peer. Players got a peer like Pavel in Neverwinter Nights with whom they made their first steps. Peers are the ones someone forges a bond with before someone being as far away from them as Makos, who is their better in all respects (even if he is displayed unbelieveably weak only a moment after fireballing the dracolich out of the sky, then rushing headlessly at Valindra, which makes him utterly unbelieveable).
Said bond is an emotional one. That's what counts - not thinking of Makos as awesome or helpful or whatnot, but the moment when you think "my pal just died!" Makos, on top of everything, survives.

I can understand the thoughts that went into simplifying the tutorial and therefor diminishing Wilfred's role to stableboy, but seriously - no rational (!) simplification can beat the emotional impact of the dead peer who later returns undead. That is how to bind players to the game world.

The landscape is another point I'd like to mention. The new tutorial feels a bit rushed, the battlefields feel not like such any more, the threat itself is diminished. Also, the magnificent first impression (low sun over sea, broken ships nearby, reawakening / rebirth ... check your archetypes, they're powerful) has been moved for something unimpressive, small, though with a better view of the city which could have well been achieved in a different way.
Other visual clues went wrong in my opinion, e.g. fixing the low impact of the Guard of the Nine with his now blinking, yet barely visible red eye, all the more since he turns away from the player. He's good for a yawn. That's not how to fix flaws in verbal and visual storytelling ... it feels rushed and shallow, while the old, while lengthy, tutorial had a lot of honesty about it and was overall more emotional. If it's supposed to be better, take the best of it (Wilfred for example) and enhance it.

If people feel offended by Wilfred being now a stableboy and "Forgotten Adventurer", it's not about nostalgia, but because you killed their pal, in terms of storytelling.
Unfortunately, that would have been Valindra's job (in terms of killing in the story). Now they're angry at you, not her.

I don't mean to imply to return to the old tutorial, but to keep this in mind for future changes and new quests.

aodfireraven

The memorial on Sleeping Dragon bridge was also changed to forgotten adventure

pitshade

For myself at least, Wilfred was a joke character. At best he was the scrub who dies to make the villain look tough. That said, IMO there were a lot better ways that the studio could have spent the time this change took.

kemnimtarkas

thevampinator said:

<

When I was in junor high many years ago a teacher had this show called pinky and the brain she played in the class once in the while. Pinky would say Naarf or Narf!. So yeah I did remember that and well recognized the name! So yeah I thought it was a reference to that. So that is why the name of the Redcap is kinda rememberable to me. Because of that cartoon.

Jeez...discussing Pinky and the Brain as an historical artifact. I feel sooooo old.

sandukutupu

From an author's point of view, Wilfred was a weak plot device to move you through the tutorial and then later made a poor comeback. Linkletter's had more depth, they even had a background story and we see them again in the Chasm. We get more attached to well developed characters. Xuna is almost a private Wilfred, we don't know much about her and only get a glimmer into her personality in SKT. So there are under developed characters and more of them. I thought by now we should be hearing more about them but they stopped after Chult and dropped it there. We see Celeste later but it is all business and no news about relationships with Knox, Makos, Xuna, and Celeste.

As for Wilfred, if you look to your right as you get the horse, Private Wilfred is standing right there. So I wouldn't consider him to be the same person who died on the bridge or is in the Death Forge. I think they could have or should have used him in other quests to endear him to the player.

brandemis

WILFRED!!!! NOOOOOO!!! #neverforgotten

wintersmoke

pitshade said:

For myself at least, Wilfred was a joke character. At best he was the scrub who dies to make the villain look tough. That said, IMO there were a lot better ways that the studio could have spent the time this change took.

Wilfred was a newb (just like all of us are when we meet him) who died to make the villian look evil. Which she is.

pitshade

I didn't die on Sleeping Dragon Bridge the first time I ran it. He did something stupid and paid for it. There isn't a similarity there.

wintersmoke

kemnimtarkas said:

thevampinator said:

<

When I was in junor high many years ago a teacher had this show called pinky and the brain she played in the class once in the while. Pinky would say Naarf or Narf!. So yeah I did remember that and well recognized the name! So yeah I thought it was a reference to that. So that is why the name of the Redcap is kinda rememberable to me. Because of that cartoon.

Jeez...discussing Pinky and the Brain as an historical artifact. I feel sooooo old.

Narf!

markhawkman

wintersmoke said:

kemnimtarkas said:

thevampinator said:

<

When I was in junor high many years ago a teacher had this show called pinky and the brain she played in the class once in the while. Pinky would say Naarf or Narf!. So yeah I did remember that and well recognized the name! So yeah I thought it was a reference to that. So that is why the name of the Redcap is kinda rememberable to me. Because of that cartoon.

Jeez...discussing Pinky and the Brain as an historical artifact. I feel sooooo old.

Narf!

Poit!

dheffernan

Remember, the theme song says "one is a genius, the other's insane" but it doesn't say which is which....

Ahem.

Yeah, yanking Wilfred like this sucks. Bad call.

markhawkman

He's not dead!

notgoodguy

Greetings.
And apologies for responding to this post so "late."

I did not read this post and responses until today. It's been a while for me for reading/posting as I don't normally bother with forums...usually. Whatever game or type of game I play, I play it to "play" it. Those of the same mindset will understand that. Having written that I am approaching this as a player, not designer or gamer or dev or DM for that matter. Just a player.

Anywho. I've been playing for a few years now and only experienced the new tutorial with the release of the Gith pc race.

I have to say it does 'feel' diminished in some way. Having made around 15 avatars/toons/pcs/whatever you wish to name them. I have experienced the tutorials several times (I've made 3 giths). Although "weak" I did make an 'attachment' to Private Wilfred. And was 'upset' when I saw him as a zombie. I had to make sure I destroyed him with much vigor and regret. Which in turn made me 'dislike' the Lich Queen even more so. This of course left me bummed out that he was 'removed' from the storytelling.

Having said all that. I understand the want and need for change. But I think the tutorial could have been done a little bit differently. Just a little. Originally having Private W killed on the bridge did not truly hint at the threat of lich witch. And it showed just how dulled witted the Private was.
In the present version of the tutorial it only shows how weak Makos (sp?) is? As stated before he just took down a dracolich and was raring to go. In both cases you don't really get to 'feel' the real threat that she is.

Now I would have liked the tutorial to have been a tad bit different. Games like this are always about the story. Big and small. Private Wilfred should have been at the gate to the bridge. Offering to accompany 'us' (Makos and your hero). Be it by request or duty. During the fight on the bridge Private Wilfred wouldn't be much help...showing his weakness (a.k.a. lower level) whereas Makos uses his higher powered spells...showing his strength (a.k.a. higher level), not so much to take away from the fight. Perhaps right before the actual fighting starts Makos could have taken out a group of skeletons in one shot. Perhaps.
Anywho. Both are on the bridge with you when you encounter the lich witch. Private stupidly charges in, Makos runs after him stating 'oh no' or 'what a fool'...something like that. Then the lich witch does her SUPER SWAT and takes them both out. Makos lives, perhaps injured, Private Wilfred dies.
In this way you see the kind of threat she is and how tough Makos is.

Well that is my perception. And I just wanted to get it out there. Once again apologies for responding months later. Thanks for 'hearing' me out.

Good journies to all.

kitkathd

Did they do something with the Lore at the start of Castle Never?

hustin1

kitkathd said:

Did they do something with the Lore at the start of Castle Never?

Yup, they changed the lore.

I can only conclude that there is *no one* left at Cryptic with any appreciation for storytelling. They have dial-twisters and artists in spades, but a compelling storyline is utterly lost on them.

autumnwitch

hustin1 said:

kitkathd said:

Did they do something with the Lore at the start of Castle Never?

Yup, they changed the lore.

I can only conclude that there is *no one* left at Cryptic with any appreciation for storytelling. They have dial-twisters and artists in spades, but a compelling storyline is utterly lost on them.

Whoever is in charge now wants to take the RP out of NW and make a cartoon action game that they can set on automatic and never have to deal with updating story or new lore. Having story and good RP requires good writers and voice actors which tend to be expensive. And since their budget it obvious nearly nothing now, that ain't gonna happen.