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10% mob reduction is laughable.

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  • barkloud#8760 barkloud Posts: 38Member Arc User
    vorphied said:

    vorphied said:

    jarfaru said:

    Its like an insult to players. Mobs are just to op and they like it like that so you will spend money in the cash shop. Leveling in this game used to be so fun. Now its just dying over and over.

    Maybe share what seems to be the problem so we can try to help. Specifics would be good.

    Here is a good reddit thread, this person explains it perfectly.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/bsvh0m/mod_16_my_experience_as_a_new_player/

    Leveling for new players is so terrible. I am trying to push through because i really like the guild I joined and the truth is a game is secondary to a good group of people to play with.

    The reddit poster doesn't give a lot of info to go on, either. It's hard to help people when their stated issues are as vague as "It takes too long to kill things." Casual is fine and even healthy, but when someone takes over a month of regular play, even if only one or two hours a day, just to get one character to level 40, you know their experience is not representative and that they probably are not leveraging community resources like guilds and forums.

    It's easy to complain, and all of us do from time to time, but if someone actually wants to be helped instead of simply to vent, they should start with something a little more concrete. There's a fair onus on the developers to make the game accessible, but players do bear some responsibility for learning their characters and playing reasonably well.
    My personal experience since MOD 16:

    FYI - I am not the greatest player, but I have not had a problem playing and raiding in most every mainstream MMO that has been out over the past 20 years.

    Questing:

    At the end of each questline I have played so far, even the short ones, you are required to enter a solo instance, kill some mobs and kill a boss type creature. Every single one I have come across is completely broken. This started with Karzog and continued consistently for me, I just started Elemental Evil quests and after spending a half hour on the first quest dying over and over and over, I went out and spent 60,000 AD on gear, which made it at least doable. My gear before hand was all level 60.

    My closest comparrison would be trying to solo five man dungeons in WoW when they are at your current level. That is how I feel whenever I need to finish a quest in Mod 16.

    Getting groups is difficult because I am not permitted to chat and new players are not all over the place. I can't get chat because the quests that unlock it are not soloable. Even when I am 10 levels higher with decent gear.

    In these quest instances, the sheer amount of mobs that zerg you, the fact they take almost no damage, heal insanely fast and respawn the moment they die makes questing miserable if not near impossible.

    Dungeons:

    Random Dungeons have been my main source of XP, As I run a new dungeon every minute. Here is how it works:
    • Random Queue for Dungeon
    • Get Illusion Dungeon 10 seconds
    • Start Dungeon 10 seconds
    • Group is wiped 5 - 30 seconds (yes we try our best everytime)
    • Game ends dungeon and gives 700 to 1200 XP - 10 seconds
    • Rinse and repeat
    I will get illusion dungeon 19 out of 20 times. Started around level 20 and has continued to 63.





  • cdnbisoncdnbison Posts: 762Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    There is something going seriously wrong if you aren't able to solo things that are 10 levels below, regardless if it is the end-of-zone instance or not. I'd be curious to see your gear / stats / loadout, because NW is probably one of the easiest games to hop in to and stomp things with - and especially so if you're using anything close to halfway decent gear while leveling (Karzov bug notwithstanding).
  • aodfireravenaodfireraven Posts: 12Member Arc User
    edited June 7
    Trying to bring up lower level characters and the thing I notice the most is potions seem understrengthed to the levels they are available to. It makes it feel like you are trying to use the previous potions that are no longer available to you, they just give back a small fraction of hp compared to how many health points a newer character can get even without boons and Zen bought gear.
    The only one that seems worth a HAMSTER in battle is the highest level one.
    So just looked at my lvl 29 rogue and he has 23,007 hp. The potion available to that level is the potion of lesser healing which states it heals up to 80% of your max health to a max of 2k. That is more like 11% of my health and basically useless when enemies are hitting for far more damage than that.
    Eta- I went back and looked at the base HP which for my rogue is 7450 so 2k is about 28%, meanwhile for my level 80 wizard- base hp is around 30,750 hp while (I forget the name) health potion for level 80 does over 2x the hp for the base.
    Post edited by aodfireraven on
  • aodfireravenaodfireraven Posts: 12Member Arc User
    And as a long time Dark Souls player, yeah it can be hard and frustrating but there are a lot of ways to mitigate that via the flexibility of gear (you are not stuck with one weapon), tactics etc. Plus for all intents and purposes, Dark Souls is a single player game that allows some Jolly Cooperation. The game is made to be difficult but not because of issues with the mechanics of the game.

    Nw is more frustrating that you are locked in to certain things so harder to adapt playing solo and like any mmo with random pairings, that can vary wildly. And you are very much at the mercy of the game mechanics and the constant changes.
  • barkloud#8760 barkloud Posts: 38Member Arc User
    > @cdnbison said:
    > There is something going seriously wrong if you aren't able to solo things that are 10 levels below, regardless if it is the end-of-zone instance or not. I'd be curious to see your gear / stats / loadout, because NW is probably one of the easiest games to hop in to and stomp things with - and especially so if you're using anything close to halfway decent gear while leveling (Karzov bug notwithstanding).

    Karzov is the easiest end of quest boss I have come across in mod 16
  • barkloud#8760 barkloud Posts: 38Member Arc User
    > @aodfireraven said:
    > And as a long time Dark Souls player, yeah it can be hard and frustrating but there are a lot of ways to mitigate that via the flexibility of gear (you are not stuck with one weapon), tactics etc. Plus for all intents and purposes, Dark Souls is a single player game that allows some Jolly Cooperation. The game is made to be difficult but not because of issues with the mechanics of the game.
    >
    > Nw is more frustrating that you are locked in to certain things so harder to adapt playing solo and like any mmo with random pairings, that can vary wildly. And you are very much at the mercy of the game mechanics and the constant

    I am a long time mmorpg and rpg player. There is a difference between hard and broken.

    I recommend people who think what I am saying is incorrect to start a new account where you have nothing and level a char.

    I would love to hear I am wrong
  • barkloud#8760 barkloud Posts: 38Member Arc User
    > @barkloud#8760 said:
    >
    >
    > > @aodfireraven said:
    > > And as a long time Dark Souls player, yeah it can be hard and frustrating but there are a lot of ways to mitigate that via the flexibility of gear (you are not stuck with one weapon), tactics etc. Plus for all intents and purposes, Dark Souls is a single player game that allows some Jolly Cooperation. The game is made to be difficult but not because of issues with the mechanics of the game.
    > >
    > > Nw is more frustrating that you are locked in to certain things so harder to adapt playing solo and like any mmo with random pairings, that can vary wildly. And you are very much at the mercy of the game mechanics and the constant
    >
    > I am a long time mmorpg and rpg player. There is a difference between hard and broken.
    >
    > I recommend people who think what I am saying is incorrect to start a new account where you have nothing and level a char.
    >
    > I would love to hear I am wrong

    And dark souls is a great game, especially for those that like the hardest of the hard. That isn't me.
  • cheerz4beerzcheerz4beerz Posts: 63Member Arc User
    > @barkloud#8760 said:
    >
    >
    > > @aodfireraven said:
    > > And as a long time Dark Souls player, yeah it can be hard and frustrating but there are a lot of ways to mitigate that via the flexibility of gear (you are not stuck with one weapon), tactics etc. Plus for all intents and purposes, Dark Souls is a single player game that allows some Jolly Cooperation. The game is made to be difficult but not because of issues with the mechanics of the game.
    > >
    > > Nw is more frustrating that you are locked in to certain things so harder to adapt playing solo and like any mmo with random pairings, that can vary wildly. And you are very much at the mercy of the game mechanics and the constant
    >
    > I am a long time mmorpg and rpg player. There is a difference between hard and broken.
    >
    > I recommend people who think what I am saying is incorrect to start a new account where you have nothing and level a char.
    >
    > I would love to hear I am > @barkloud#8760 said:
    > Its like an insult to players. Mobs are just to op and they like it like that so you will spend money in the cash shop. Leveling in this game used to be so fun. Now its just dying over and over.
    >
    > Maybe share what seems to be the problem so we can try to help. Specifics would be good.
    >
    >
    >
    > Here is a good reddit thread, this person explains it perfectly.
    >
    > https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/bsvh0m/mod_16_my_experience_as_a_new_player/
    >
    > Leveling for new players is so terrible. I am trying to push through because i really like the guild I joined and the truth is a game is secondary to a good group of people to play with.
    >
    >
    >
    > The reddit poster doesn't give a lot of info to go on, either. It's hard to help people when their stated issues are as vague as "It takes too long to kill things." Casual is fine and even healthy, but when someone takes over a month of regular play, even if only one or two hours a day, just to get one character to level 40, you know their experience is not representative and that they probably are not leveraging community resources like guilds and forums.
    >
    > It's easy to complain, and all of us do from time to time, but if someone actually wants to be helped instead of simply to vent, they should start with something a little more concrete. There's a fair onus on the developers to make the game accessible, but players do bear some responsibility for learning their characters and playing reasonably well.
    >
    > My personal experience since MOD 16:
    >
    > FYI - I am not the greatest player, but I have not had a problem playing and raiding in most every mainstream MMO that has been out over the past 20 years.
    >
    > Questing:
    >
    > At the end of each questline I have played so far, even the short ones, you are required to enter a solo instance, kill some mobs and kill a boss type creature. Every single one I have come across is completely broken. This started with Karzog and continued consistently for me, I just started Elemental Evil quests and after spending a half hour on the first quest dying over and over and over, I went out and spent 60,000 AD on gear, which made it at least doable. My gear before hand was all level 60.
    >
    > My closest comparrison would be trying to solo five man dungeons in WoW when they are at your current level. That is how I feel whenever I need to finish a quest in Mod 16.
    >
    > Getting groups is difficult because I am not permitted to chat and new players are not all over the place. I can't get chat because the quests that unlock it are not soloable. Even when I am 10 levels higher with decent gear.
    >
    > In these quest instances, the sheer amount of mobs that zerg you, the fact they take almost no damage, heal insanely fast and respawn the moment they die makes questing miserable if not near impossible.
    >
    > Dungeons:
    >
    > Random Dungeons have been my main source of XP, As I run a new dungeon every minute. Here is how it works:
    > * Random Queue for Dungeon
    >
    > * Get Illusion Dungeon 10 seconds
    >
    > * Start Dungeon 10 seconds
    >
    > * Group is wiped 5 - 30 seconds (yes we try our best everytime)
    >
    > * Game ends dungeon and gives 700 to 1200 XP - 10 seconds
    >
    > * Rinse and repeat
    >
    >
    > I will get illusion dungeon 19 out of 20 times. Started around level 20 and has continued to 63.

    Im sorry this all sounds like a personal problem. You just dont seem to be a very good player. Karzog...really? He is one shot by almost any classes daily power and even if he survives it he is dead to the next encounter.

    The only boss that should be a roadblock for anyone is maybe arcturia (claws of malar) and Im pretty sure she's nerfed. My barb needed help with her but my rogue and lock had zero issues.

    I dont think people will be satisfied until mobs just fall over dead when you come near then.
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,751Member Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    The fact that we now have to stack nothing but radiant enchantments and empowered runestones is an indicator of how broken the game is. Power and HP are now everything. Companions don't matter, powers don't matter, only those two stats. Why? To appease the most toxic 3% of the population who spend the most? To stroke the ego of some "grand designer" who thinks he knows the playerbase better than the players themselves? So that the proverbial man behind the curtain can have more dials for tweaking the game? The direction of the game makes no sense. How many players left since the mod launched? Two-thirds? Three-fourths? They lost a TON of players; that is beyond dispute.

    This is what Mod 6 was like. PE was a ghost town and every guild hemhorraged players. When the game launched my guild was one of the largest ones; it was always full and there was a waiting list to join. After mod 6 we were down to four (4) active players. Now? I haven't seen another guildie on in over a week.

    If history is any guide, now we'll have to settle in for The Long Wait. That is the time we'll have to wait for the devs to come to their senses. Last time around, it took until Mod 8 (or perhaps 9). So, if we're lucky, things will improve a teeny tiny bit in Mod 18. We'll never get back to feeling comfortable; just as it's been *four years* and we're still missing several dungeons, pride will prevent the devs from really rolling back some of the worst missteps of this mod. But hopefully in two or three mods things will become somewhat more bearable. Make no mistake, though; expect every concession they make toward making the game actually fun again to be like pulling teeth.

    Hell, they won't even unblock the side areas in the dungeons that the Mod 6 "designer" (insert pejorative here) decided that we didn't need to see anymore. I've only been badgering them about it for years. The only reason for the resistance I can see is sheer pig-headed stubbornness. Pride isn't one of the seven deadly sins for nothing.

    I know, I have a pessimistic view, but I've seen this movie before. And this time around I don't even have the Foundry to keep me busy :angry:

    I was kind of with you until you started going off about the "toxic 3% who spend the most." I don't get how that comment is constructive or even accurate. Toxicity is free....

    If you're suggesting that the current state of things is designed to pander to high-end players, I don't agree. Mid-level players are still getting use out of a broader range of enchants; it's the players with characters that are something like BiS that are the most dissatisfied by having most of their enchants rendered unnecessary and having to try to liquidate them for a loss or convert them into account-bound Radiants and Empowereds.
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  • sandukutupusandukutupu Posts: 1,056Member Arc User
    adinosii said:

    I don't like the 10% reduction...it is helping making unscaled content way too easy.

    I am currently farming the heck out of Barovia because of this fact. I keep seeing people saying they need 10 people for the BHE (Yester Hill) and I tell them, "No you only need 5 players". They don't seem to understand it. For now it is okay, but players are going to miss being in God mode then complaining about that instead. lol :lol:
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  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,751Member Arc User

    adinosii said:

    I don't like the 10% reduction...it is helping making unscaled content way too easy.

    I am currently farming the heck out of Barovia because of this fact. I keep seeing people saying they need 10 people for the BHE (Yester Hill) and I tell them, "No you only need 5 players". They don't seem to understand it. For now it is okay, but players are going to miss being in God mode then complaining about that instead. lol :lol:
    Yester Hill is practically a solo HE if you can stand the tedium. The drop in difficulty with the removal of scaling was severe.
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    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
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  • cheerz4beerzcheerz4beerz Posts: 63Member Arc User
    > @barkloud#8760 said:
    > >
    > Im sorry this all sounds like a personal problem. You just dont seem to be a very good player. Karzog...really? He is one shot by almost any classes daily power and even if he survives it he is dead to the next encounter.
    >
    >
    >
    > The only boss that should be a roadblock for anyone is maybe arcturia (claws of malar) and Im pretty sure she's nerfed. My barb needed help with her but my rogue and lock had zero issues.
    >
    >
    >
    > I dont think people will be satisfied until mobs just fall over dead when you come near then.
    >
    > I am not sure if you are a troll or if you believe what you say. \
    >
    > Have you created a new account and leveled a char in mod 16? Without any money, without any diamonds, with no way to chat with anyone, no way to use LFG channel?

    I started playing a week before mod 16 released. My barb was my first character and even in the early days of the scaling mess nothing slowed me down until that arcturia fight.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,296Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    > @jarfaru said:
    > Its like an insult to players. Mobs are just to op and they like it like that so you will spend money in the cash shop. Leveling in this game used to be so fun. Now its just dying over and over.

    What lvl are you
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  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Posts: 990Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    the 10% hp overall reduction made the queue for lomm bearable for public queue, did lomm yesterday on public queue with my wiz 21k il, we wiped on first boss because of a bug that kept spawning mimics even after boss was ready to be hit, wiped on last boss because the charge bar was full, but all was done smoothly, @mimicking#6533 all i can say is next module give a dungeon that fit the max il the player can achieve, right now the max il is 25k and LOMM is 20k il req so we have a 5k il difference you should have made lomm a 25k il dungeon and next modules you put dungeon req with max il the player can get so theres no more lfm 24k+il for lomm
  • antok500#4237 antok500 Posts: 58Member Arc User
    The latest changes have killed our guild donations. After the most profitable event of the year, seige, people went back to heroic shards and influence grinding and promptly left again. No influence coming in, no heroics, a few adventurers shards from Sharandar etc. Maybe they are all off to farm Barovia but what is said in chat is that Stronghold dailies take too long and cost too much gold to be worth it.
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Posts: 633Member Arc User
    hustin1 said:



    This is what Mod 6 was like. PE was a ghost town and every guild hemhorraged players. When the game launched my guild was one of the largest ones; it was always full and there was a waiting list to join. After mod 6 we were down to four (4) active players. Now? I haven't seen another guildie on in over a week.

    While I am mostly on the 'sitting this mod out' team - I can't agree that this is hurting guilds based on the small amount of data I personally have access to. In the guild I belong to, the # of players has gone up since Mod 16 dropped on PC - we were at around 114-ish pre M16, and now I think it's close to maxing out.


  • antok500#4237 antok500 Posts: 58Member Arc User
    If you are a level 20 Guild that is more likely to do with folk in smaller guilds giving up and joining larger guilds. Yes Mod 16 benefits some, at the expense of others.
  • antok500#4237 antok500 Posts: 58Member Arc User
    Overall player numbers are down. It is not just guild donations that are down log ins are also down a lot. This is backed up by the data from Steam. steamcharts are showing reductions in concurrent users between 5 and 10% per week since the first few days after Mod 16. Players are voting on Mod 16 by not playing the game.

    Arc log in numbers may be holding up better but I doubt it.

    Cryptic thrashing around trying to salvage something from this is not caused by whining in the forums which they can (and usually do) ignore, but data on player numbers and income flows, which they can't ignore because it pays their wages.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Posts: 1,056Member Arc User
    There was another thread people questioning the population. Summer months are upon us and this could be the reason for decrease population. Over on the other thread I did a spread sheet on percentile population based on a control group. The control group being Star Trek Online. From the 22nd of April to the 23rd of May, the overall population growth versus Star Trek is only -0.14% average drop. However both games showed growth Star Trek (0.53%) just grew more than Neverwinter (0.39%). This is the first week in June, school is out people go on trips. There are weddings, graduations, and keggers! I really miss keggers. :disappointed: At any rate, here is a chart showing you the growth of both games.




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  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Posts: 601Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 8
    I dont know if the Game has more or less players. Steam is a bad indicator Also.

    But i can tell you that i have lots of books, tiamat and the others needed for boons.

    I am selling 20-30 books each day (and I only play 2 or 3 hours a day) each player only need few of these. Once you have your boons they are useless.

    What that means? People is leveling lots of characters. I doubt they are majority old players. Is new people atracted to the Game. So maybe people is wrong un the predictions.

    Maybe lots of old players are leaving... And lots of new ones coming. So WAI?
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  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Posts: 990Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    The latest changes have killed our guild donations. After the most profitable event of the year, seige, people went back to heroic shards and influence grinding and promptly left again. No influence coming in, no heroics, a few adventurers shards from Sharandar etc. Maybe they are all off to farm Barovia but what is said in chat is that Stronghold dailies take too long and cost too much gold to be worth it.

    time to team up for leveling up their toons and reach level 80 caps for non queued content
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Posts: 1,056Member Arc User
    edited June 8

    I dont know if the Game has more or less players. Steam is a bad indicator Also.

    Well as I stated above, I do know they have an over all increase of +0.39% that means for every 10,000 players there was an increase of 39 players on average between April 22, 2019 to May 23, 2019. The source data used was not Steam but Neverwinter PC itself, XB1 and PS4 was excluded from the census. Using STO as a baseline control group they should have done much better than this as STO increased by a ratio of 53 players in 10,000. But you are correct, the population doesn't matter.
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  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Posts: 633Member Arc User

    If you are a level 20 Guild that is more likely to do with folk in smaller guilds giving up and joining larger guilds. Yes Mod 16 benefits some, at the expense of others.

    My guild is only at level 14, and still a ways away from going to 15. However, I do think it more than possible that the influx may in part be due to smaller guilds imploding due to defections. But that is pure speculation - I have no actual data to support the notion.

  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Posts: 775Member Arc User
    It is my impression that the game is way way too easy now.

    Cryptic did the 10% hp reduction, the doubling of enchant effects and removal of level scaling in dungeons that they had not really planned for in the tuning of the game, which pushed us into too-easy land.

    Hopefully we'll get better game tuning with mod 17, they have the tools in place now. With mod 17 we should get a good amount of level 80 content so the old level 70 content will be less relevant.

    They actually should level-up some of the old dungeons to 80 and re-tune them. We do not need so much level 70 content.
  • regenerderegenerde Posts: 2,341Member Arc User
    edited June 9
    Well, before they start messing up any more content, what they actually should do is adjust the rewards in dungeon and skirmishes towards the player character level, so that at the end of a dungeon or skirmish the reward is more... rewarding.

    There's no need for more "challenging" content only a handfull of players will ever play through, while the rest of the players are sidelined. HAMSTER like that won't bring back the players the game has lost through the Undermountain mess.

    And they should also get rid of a good portion of the RNG on top of RNG with RNG at the side when it comes to some rewards - Alabaster weapon set for example should be given at the end of the Undermountain campaign, and some of the new artifact sets should be placed in the ME rewards box instead.

    Next step in line should be fixing those bloody damn companions, those things are more or less broken since Undermountain release, and all we got this far was a "we're looking into it.", and that's simply not good enough anymore!

    Enchantments and scaling are a bloody mess as well, Quartermaster's enchantments above R10 are broken for sure, just open a few "Spoils of War" or "Abandoned Gear" bags and you'll see it for yourself, and i wouldn't be surprised if other enchantments aren't working properly after the latest patches too.

    Anyway, bug fixing needs to get a much higher priority around here, pushing new content into the game is only good, if the new stuff is working properly...
    Post edited by regenerde on
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  • groo#6243 groo Posts: 37Member Arc User
    Clearly balancing isn't quite there yet and there is still a lot players need to figure out in terms of set up as there is a real bipolar response in the forums currently with players saying either it's too easy or it's too hard.

    I read somewhere that a similar storm whirled when mod 5 or 6 (Elemental Evil) dropped. The article reckoned it was another couple of mods before things settled down back then.

    What concerns me is a lot of AD/real money is being spent on getting characters back to BiS when the game is still in quite a flux state. For example, people spent currency pre-mod 16 to get things like Chultan tiger companions. Currently, there is a flurry to pick up a decent augment instead. Yet, the game still isn't balanced (I thought the idea was ALL companions should be viable). As there are a lot of fixes/changes still ongoing to try and sort mod 16 out, you could find a future mod brings striker companions back into a viable state at which point a lot of currency could have been spent for nothing.
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