VIP rank 2 “All active companions earn 20% of total earned XP” How will this work in mod16? We no longer have a distinction between active and idle, only 1 summoned and the rest non summoned. Will all the non summoned be getting this bonus? Maybe those in the current bolster group?
Greetings Everyone, Just a quick note to let you know that I have not forgotten about you. I am actively looking at the page and taking note of reports, but I am also the designer working on enemy design, boons revamp, dungeon boss designs, and the rune system.
I have been trying to focus on each one a few days at a time and recently shifted focus from companions to boons. This does not mean that I am done with companions it just means that other features need my attention so they can cross the finish line as bug free and polished as possible.
The next patch should contain several companion related updates including some cleaning up of augments. So please keep posting your feedback and bugs here knowing that they are being seen.
Thank you once again for all of the help you have given us so far, we truly appreciate it.
Silius
I could see that you have really been following the topic, I'm just trying to understand what has improved in this week's changes. Fellows with debuff had their power removed, I saw that added more variety of slot slot for mates to be both offensive and defensive or ultility (I'm still stuck in my choices, and I do not see myself as a DPS with 3 offensive slots), as I also saw that the new companion increases Bonus Damage, something that was removed from our companions, something that I had accepted in a positive way, with the proviso that they had a bonus at least decent what did not happen. I have no words left to close my comment at the moment.
I'm not really sure what the point is of having a summoned active companion is anymore after the current patch. Their base damage is really low, and the companion enhancement gives a small boost to stats, or a small debuff to enemy stats. The problem with this is, if you were able to obtain a perfect spread of stats, reducing enemy stats or increasing your own stats by 2000 becomes irrelevant. The debuffs on certain pets, combined with "Potency" (increasing your power by 2k) or "Potent Precision" (Increasing your Critical Severity by "up to"? 4%) would make them at least compete with the amount of stats obtained by using an augment. Currently on preview, if you're able to exceed stat caps with an augment and swap to a summoned companion, the benefit is 2k power or crit sev and nominal damage from your companion actually attacking. Since I can get more power from an augment, I'm not sure what kind of a choice that is.
The only situation I could think of is if the enemies had too many stats for us to ever overcome with our own stats, so we would all have to use companions to reduce their defenses to a rate where we could do true damage to them. Then again, the companions are only debuffing by 2k which is equal to 2 rank 14s or equipping an augment, so I still don't know if that would be an insurmountable value to make active companions of any true value.
Maybe I'm missing something (and if I am, please feel free to enlighten me), but it seems that augments are the clear choice in all situations.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Greetings Everyone, Just a quick note to let you know that I have not forgotten about you. I am actively looking at the page and taking note of reports, but I am also the designer working on enemy design, boons revamp, dungeon boss designs, and the rune system.
I have been trying to focus on each one a few days at a time and recently shifted focus from companions to boons. This does not mean that I am done with companions it just means that other features need my attention so they can cross the finish line as bug free and polished as possible.
The next patch should contain several companion related updates including some cleaning up of augments. So please keep posting your feedback and bugs here knowing that they are being seen.
Thank you once again for all of the help you have given us so far, we truly appreciate it.
Silius
I could see that you have really been following the topic, I'm just trying to understand what has improved in this week's changes. Fellows with debuff had their power removed, I saw that added more variety of slot slot for mates to be both offensive and defensive or ultility (I'm still stuck in my choices, and I do not see myself as a DPS with 3 offensive slots), as I also saw that the new companion increases Bonus Damage, something that was removed from our companions, something that I had accepted in a positive way, with the proviso that they had a bonus at least decent what did not happen. I have no words left to close my comment at the moment.
Removing debuffs brings back a meta where augments are playable. That's a win in my book (and virtually no one else's)
Removing debuffs brings back a meta where augments are playable. That's a win in my book (and virtually no one else's)
The way things are currently, there is no reason to use anything BUT an augment. All this has done is switch the meta to the extreme opposite where everyone uses augments again, and no one uses active companions.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Removing debuffs brings back a meta where augments are playable. That's a win in my book (and virtually no one else's)
The way things are currently, there is no reason to use anything BUT an augment. All this has done is switch the meta to the extreme opposite where everyone uses augments again, and no one uses active companions.
All according to keikaku.
That being said, I do think that non-augments are still probably useful for solo play, since they're a way to get combat advantage. And CA bonus is a major stat in Mod 16, so that's a big deal.
Removing debuffs brings back a meta where augments are playable. That's a win in my book (and virtually no one else's)
The way things are currently, there is no reason to use anything BUT an augment. All this has done is switch the meta to the extreme opposite where everyone uses augments again, and no one uses active companions.
All according to keikaku.
That being said, I do think that non-augments are still probably useful for solo play, since they're a way to get combat advantage. And CA bonus is a major stat in Mod 16, so that's a big deal.
I literally have the crappiest spread of stats since I never focused on dps as a cleric and I find no need to arrange myself around my idiot pet to try and get combat advantage. Things die too quickly. It's not even a matter of not wanting to spend AD on a new companion, I have a legendary augment already. I just think, as do you, apparently, that companions should be competitive. The way things are, they are not.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Removing debuffs brings back a meta where augments are playable. That's a win in my book (and virtually no one else's)
The way things are currently, there is no reason to use anything BUT an augment. All this has done is switch the meta to the extreme opposite where everyone uses augments again, and no one uses active companions.
All according to keikaku.
That being said, I do think that non-augments are still probably useful for solo play, since they're a way to get combat advantage. And CA bonus is a major stat in Mod 16, so that's a big deal.
I literally have the crappiest spread of stats since I never focused on dps as a cleric and I find no need to arrange myself around my idiot pet to try and get combat advantage. Things die too quickly. It's not even a matter of not wanting to spend AD on a new companion, I have a legendary augment already. I just think, as do you, apparently, that companions should be competitive. The way things are, they are not.
Well, if companions die too easily, then they need to up the survability of companions. But that's a companion stat issue, not a debuff issue.
The reason debuffs were The Way to Play was because they affect everyone's damage, so having a bunch of debuff companions on a team massively increased the team's overall damage potential. That's a dynamic the dev team is moving away from. I do agree that if your companion is *dead* half the time, there's no point in having them. But last I'd heard, companions were dealing way too much damage due to a series of bugs, so I guess I'm just skeptical that non-augments are useless at this point.
Also, to be clear: you can change ALL of your enchants at the start of mod 16 at no cost, and the rest of your gear is going to quickly be replaced by level 80 gear, so I wouldn't worry too much about your cleric's stats being terrible.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited March 2019
augment
not augment
their difference is very high on stats augment is far better than not augment. IS it normal or is a bug?
Removing debuffs brings back a meta where augments are playable. That's a win in my book (and virtually no one else's)
The way things are currently, there is no reason to use anything BUT an augment. All this has done is switch the meta to the extreme opposite where everyone uses augments again, and no one uses active companions.
All according to keikaku.
That being said, I do think that non-augments are still probably useful for solo play, since they're a way to get combat advantage. And CA bonus is a major stat in Mod 16, so that's a big deal.
I literally have the crappiest spread of stats since I never focused on dps as a cleric and I find no need to arrange myself around my idiot pet to try and get combat advantage. Things die too quickly. It's not even a matter of not wanting to spend AD on a new companion, I have a legendary augment already. I just think, as do you, apparently, that companions should be competitive. The way things are, they are not.
Well, if companions die too easily, then they need to up the survability of companions. But that's a companion stat issue, not a debuff issue.
The reason debuffs were The Way to Play was because they affect everyone's damage, so having a bunch of debuff companions on a team massively increased the team's overall damage potential. That's a dynamic the dev team is moving away from. I do agree that if your companion is *dead* half the time, there's no point in having them. But last I'd heard, companions were dealing way too much damage due to a series of bugs, so I guess I'm just skeptical that non-augments are useless at this point.
Also, to be clear: you can change ALL of your enchants at the start of mod 16 at no cost, and the rest of your gear is going to quickly be replaced by level 80 gear, so I wouldn't worry too much about your cleric's stats being terrible.
I'm not really worried about my companion dying at all. I don't need a companion to tank for me, or provide combat advantage. I was using a companion as a cleric to help my team by yes, providing debuffs. I understand that this is something the devs want to move away from, but support players like tanks and clerics SHOULD be thinking of how to make their dps's lives easier. It's fine, in my opinion, if DPS want to go with a stat augment to reach ideal stats, but there should be something other than stats to aim at for supports. I don't need extra outgoing healing and I don't benefit from capping my armor pen.
I support the reworking of augments so that they are a viable option. However, I disagree with making everyone a carbon copy of everyone else, and this is yet another move towards that, and I cannot support it.
Also, I have no concern about my enchants or stats in mod 16, I only brought up my stat spread to illustrate the fact that even with less than ideal stats, even as a support class with no emphasis on armor pen or damage, I am able to trounce content on preview without depending on a companion to either tank for me or provide combat advantage, which means the benefit of having a summoned active companion is near to nil.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Removing debuffs brings back a meta where augments are playable. That's a win in my book (and virtually no one else's)
The way things are currently, there is no reason to use anything BUT an augment. All this has done is switch the meta to the extreme opposite where everyone uses augments again, and no one uses active companions.
All according to keikaku.
That being said, I do think that non-augments are still probably useful for solo play, since they're a way to get combat advantage. And CA bonus is a major stat in Mod 16, so that's a big deal.
I literally have the crappiest spread of stats since I never focused on dps as a cleric and I find no need to arrange myself around my idiot pet to try and get combat advantage. Things die too quickly. It's not even a matter of not wanting to spend AD on a new companion, I have a legendary augment already. I just think, as do you, apparently, that companions should be competitive. The way things are, they are not.
Well, if companions die too easily, then they need to up the survability of companions. But that's a companion stat issue, not a debuff issue.
The reason debuffs were The Way to Play was because they affect everyone's damage, so having a bunch of debuff companions on a team massively increased the team's overall damage potential. That's a dynamic the dev team is moving away from. I do agree that if your companion is *dead* half the time, there's no point in having them. But last I'd heard, companions were dealing way too much damage due to a series of bugs, so I guess I'm just skeptical that non-augments are useless at this point.
Also, to be clear: you can change ALL of your enchants at the start of mod 16 at no cost, and the rest of your gear is going to quickly be replaced by level 80 gear, so I wouldn't worry too much about your cleric's stats being terrible.
I'm not really worried about my companion dying at all. I don't need a companion to tank for me, or provide combat advantage. I was using a companion as a cleric to help my team by yes, providing debuffs. I understand that this is something the devs want to move away from, but support players like tanks and clerics SHOULD be thinking of how to make their dps's lives easier. It's fine, in my opinion, if DPS want to go with a stat augment to reach ideal stats, but there should be something other than stats to aim at for supports. I don't need extra outgoing healing and I don't benefit from capping my armor pen.
I support the reworking of augments so that they are a viable option. However, I disagree with making everyone a carbon copy of everyone else, and this is yet another move towards that, and I cannot support it.
Also, I have no concern about my enchants or stats in mod 16, I only brought up my stat spread to illustrate the fact that even with less than ideal stats, even as a support class with no emphasis on armor pen or damage, I am able to trounce content on preview without depending on a companion to either tank for me or provide combat advantage, which means the benefit of having a summoned active companion is near to nil.
Well, if you can do all the content with or without a companion, then why do you need to use an augment? I'm just really not seeing the problem here.
The problem is, if a summoned companion doesn't even provide debuffs anymore, there is no need to use anything except an augment, which is what I detailed in my original feedback.
There should be a benefit to both. If solo content doesn't need summoned companions to tank or provide CA (and based on some feedback, I'm not sure the community at large would appreciate such a difficulty increase in solo content), what does a summoned active companion provide except for less stats than an augment? A lot of people are already saying that they are experiencing an increase in difficulty, which is making doing things in solo content like dailies and HEs take much longer than on live. Considering that many of these people *should have* an active companion to tank or provide CA from live as they provide more combat stats on live than an augment, these people should, in theory, be seeing a decrease in difficulty because they have a companion to provide benefits to them, and yet, that isn't what they are reporting.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
The problem is, if a summoned companion doesn't even provide debuffs anymore, there is no need to use anything except an augment, which is what I detailed in my original feedback.
There should be a benefit to both. If solo content doesn't need summoned companions to tank or provide CA (and based on some feedback, I'm not sure the community at large would appreciate such a difficulty increase in solo content), what does a summoned active companion provide except for less stats than an augment? A lot of people are already saying that they are experiencing an increase in difficulty, which is making doing things in solo content like dailies and HEs take much longer than on live. Considering that many of these people *should have* an active companion to tank or provide CA from live as they provide more combat stats on live than an augment, these people should, in theory, be seeing a decrease in difficulty because they have a companion to provide benefits to them, and yet, that isn't what they are reporting.
A summoned companion provides additional damage, tanking, or additional healing.
If you don't want any of those, then you can have an augment. If one of those three things is valuable to you, then use a summoned creature.
If the dynamic is always that the augment is superior because additional damage is too low, or survivability is too low, or additional healing is too low, maybe those values need to be increased. But this weird idea that in order for a summoned companion to be useful they have to provide a debuff is just silly.
To put it another way, if content doesn't need a tank or whatever, then by the same token, content doesn't need an augment to provide additional stats. So the idea that summoned companions are bad because content is too easy is just perplexingly weird as an argument.
I'm not asking for a companion for solo content, however I would like one with some value for group content. I already stated I don't need additional healing, or to cap my stats as a support. For group content, dps are going to want to cap their stats to maximize their damage, as they should, because that's their job. My roll as support does not require capped combat advantage, armor pen, awareness, accuracy. Equipping an augment would provide me with an excess of stats that have no value for me.
In contrast, having an active companion, that provides less stats and also a debuff, has immense value for a support class in group content. The current generic debuffs that active companions now provide like "Armor Break" reduce an enemy's stats by 2,080. If the dps (or the tank for that matter) have appropriately balanced their stats, reducing an enemy's stats has no effect. So having a combat companion in group content also doesn't make much sense.
I'd prefer if some companions still had debuffs. In group content, dps would still be drawn to use augments to balance their stats, but supports could ALSO have a choice that has value.
As an afterthought, 4/5 people in a party will prefer an augment to make sure their are making the most of their damage, as even tanks need to do damage to generate threat. Having one person in a group with a debuffing companion is not going to unbalance everything.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I'm not asking for a companion for solo content, however I would like one with some value for group content. I already stated I don't need additional healing, or to cap my stats as a support. For group content, dps are going to want to cap their stats to maximize their damage, as they should, because that's their job. My roll as support does not require capped combat advantage, armor pen, awareness, accuracy. Equipping an augment would provide me with an excess of stats that have no value for me.
In contrast, having an active companion, that provides less stats and also a debuff, has immense value for a support class in group content. The current generic debuffs that active companions now provide like "Armor Break" reduce an enemy's stats by 2,080. If the dps (or the tank for that matter) have appropriately balanced their stats, reducing an enemy's stats has no effect. So having a combat companion in group content also doesn't make much sense.
I'd prefer if some companions still had debuffs. In group content, dps would still be drawn to use augments to balance their stats, but supports could ALSO have a choice that has value.
Let's say your companion has a static 5% debuff.
That means in a group of 5 people, you're basically giving everyone +2500 power. Meaning that the debuff-without any other stat gains-is worth 12500 power. It's actually more depending on how the debuff works (because x1.05 us a bigger increase than going from x2.05 to x2.10 is), so this is a deliberately conservative estimate.
Is the stat differential between augments and non-augments more than 12500 points?
I'm not asking for a companion for solo content, however I would like one with some value for group content. I already stated I don't need additional healing, or to cap my stats as a support. For group content, dps are going to want to cap their stats to maximize their damage, as they should, because that's their job. My roll as support does not require capped combat advantage, armor pen, awareness, accuracy. Equipping an augment would provide me with an excess of stats that have no value for me.
In contrast, having an active companion, that provides less stats and also a debuff, has immense value for a support class in group content. The current generic debuffs that active companions now provide like "Armor Break" reduce an enemy's stats by 2,080. If the dps (or the tank for that matter) have appropriately balanced their stats, reducing an enemy's stats has no effect. So having a combat companion in group content also doesn't make much sense.
I'd prefer if some companions still had debuffs. In group content, dps would still be drawn to use augments to balance their stats, but supports could ALSO have a choice that has value.
Let's say your companion has a static 5% debuff.
That means in a group of 5 people, you're basically giving everyone +2500 power. Meaning that the debuff-without any other stat gains-is worth 12500 power. It's actually more depending on how the debuff works (because x1.05 us a bigger increase than going from x2.05 to x2.10 is), so this is a deliberately conservative estimate.
Is the stat differential between augments and non-augments more than 12500 points?
These are my stats with an augment with 13.5% bolster:
The augment provides 9.7k stats in power alone. I honestly just want to know what pet you think would actually be useful for a cleric to equip. I shouldn't equip a tank pet that would steal aggro from the actual tank in unpredictable ways. As I've said, the damage from pets (aside from those previously broken) is negligible. My legendary con artist does a whopping 1.1k per hit. I don't need to supplement my heals with a healing companion. Augments provide too many stats, but hey. I get more powerful heals with more power (though my healing is more than sufficient with the stats from an active companion. This would be overkill), so that's what I end up HAVING to use, due to there being no other real options.
That leaves 100% of people with augments in group content. How is that different than live, where 100% of people have active companions? So much of mod 16 takes away diversity that I would love to have the option to have something different.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I'm not asking for a companion for solo content, however I would like one with some value for group content. I already stated I don't need additional healing, or to cap my stats as a support. For group content, dps are going to want to cap their stats to maximize their damage, as they should, because that's their job. My roll as support does not require capped combat advantage, armor pen, awareness, accuracy. Equipping an augment would provide me with an excess of stats that have no value for me.
In contrast, having an active companion, that provides less stats and also a debuff, has immense value for a support class in group content. The current generic debuffs that active companions now provide like "Armor Break" reduce an enemy's stats by 2,080. If the dps (or the tank for that matter) have appropriately balanced their stats, reducing an enemy's stats has no effect. So having a combat companion in group content also doesn't make much sense.
I'd prefer if some companions still had debuffs. In group content, dps would still be drawn to use augments to balance their stats, but supports could ALSO have a choice that has value.
Let's say your companion has a static 5% debuff.
That means in a group of 5 people, you're basically giving everyone +2500 power. Meaning that the debuff-without any other stat gains-is worth 12500 power. It's actually more depending on how the debuff works (because x1.05 us a bigger increase than going from x2.05 to x2.10 is), so this is a deliberately conservative estimate.
Is the stat differential between augments and non-augments more than 12500 points?
These are my stats with an augment with 13.5% bolster:
The augment provides 9.7k stats in power alone. I honestly just want to know what pet you think would actually be useful for a cleric to equip. I shouldn't equip a tank pet that would steal aggro from the actual tank in unpredictable ways. As I've said, the damage from pets (aside from those previously broken) is negligible. My legendary con artist does a whopping 1.1k per hit. I don't need to supplement my heals with a healing companion. Augments provide too many stats, but hey. I get more powerful heals with more power (though my healing is more than sufficient with the stats from an active companion. This would be overkill), so that's what I end up HAVING to use, due to there being no other real options.
That leaves 100% of people with augments in group content. How is that different than live, where 100% of people have active companions? So much of mod 16 takes away diversity that I would love to have the option to have something different.
If you think that damage pets need to deal more damage, that's fine. I'm not saying that the current math for pets is good-I know next to nothing about the actual stats of active pets. I'm just pointing out that acting like the only way for active pets to be useful is debuff is ridiculous, and debuffing as the incentive to use pets is not in any way manageable.
Aside from that, it sounds like the best thing for your build is more stats. And since augments do nothing BUT give more stats, the best thing for your build *should* be an augment. If you WANTED something other companions gave, they'd be the best.
The problem isn't that actives are conceptually useless or whatever-it's that the thing you personally want is what augments should do. You can quibble with the math if you want, but conceptually it sounds like everything's in the right spot.
I'm not asking for a companion for solo content, however I would like one with some value for group content. I already stated I don't need additional healing, or to cap my stats as a support. For group content, dps are going to want to cap their stats to maximize their damage, as they should, because that's their job. My roll as support does not require capped combat advantage, armor pen, awareness, accuracy. Equipping an augment would provide me with an excess of stats that have no value for me.
In contrast, having an active companion, that provides less stats and also a debuff, has immense value for a support class in group content. The current generic debuffs that active companions now provide like "Armor Break" reduce an enemy's stats by 2,080. If the dps (or the tank for that matter) have appropriately balanced their stats, reducing an enemy's stats has no effect. So having a combat companion in group content also doesn't make much sense.
I'd prefer if some companions still had debuffs. In group content, dps would still be drawn to use augments to balance their stats, but supports could ALSO have a choice that has value.
Let's say your companion has a static 5% debuff.
That means in a group of 5 people, you're basically giving everyone +2500 power. Meaning that the debuff-without any other stat gains-is worth 12500 power. It's actually more depending on how the debuff works (because x1.05 us a bigger increase than going from x2.05 to x2.10 is), so this is a deliberately conservative estimate.
Is the stat differential between augments and non-augments more than 12500 points?
These are my stats with an augment with 13.5% bolster:
The augment provides 9.7k stats in power alone. I honestly just want to know what pet you think would actually be useful for a cleric to equip. I shouldn't equip a tank pet that would steal aggro from the actual tank in unpredictable ways. As I've said, the damage from pets (aside from those previously broken) is negligible. My legendary con artist does a whopping 1.1k per hit. I don't need to supplement my heals with a healing companion. Augments provide too many stats, but hey. I get more powerful heals with more power (though my healing is more than sufficient with the stats from an active companion. This would be overkill), so that's what I end up HAVING to use, due to there being no other real options.
That leaves 100% of people with augments in group content. How is that different than live, where 100% of people have active companions? So much of mod 16 takes away diversity that I would love to have the option to have something different.
You will not explain it to him. I have already given up. For me he is a confirmation of the thesis that "+100 to mathematical talents" means "-100 to the imagination". Sad but true.
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I'm not asking for a companion for solo content, however I would like one with some value for group content. I already stated I don't need additional healing, or to cap my stats as a support. For group content, dps are going to want to cap their stats to maximize their damage, as they should, because that's their job. My roll as support does not require capped combat advantage, armor pen, awareness, accuracy. Equipping an augment would provide me with an excess of stats that have no value for me.
In contrast, having an active companion, that provides less stats and also a debuff, has immense value for a support class in group content. The current generic debuffs that active companions now provide like "Armor Break" reduce an enemy's stats by 2,080. If the dps (or the tank for that matter) have appropriately balanced their stats, reducing an enemy's stats has no effect. So having a combat companion in group content also doesn't make much sense.
I'd prefer if some companions still had debuffs. In group content, dps would still be drawn to use augments to balance their stats, but supports could ALSO have a choice that has value.
Let's say your companion has a static 5% debuff.
That means in a group of 5 people, you're basically giving everyone +2500 power. Meaning that the debuff-without any other stat gains-is worth 12500 power. It's actually more depending on how the debuff works (because x1.05 us a bigger increase than going from x2.05 to x2.10 is), so this is a deliberately conservative estimate.
Is the stat differential between augments and non-augments more than 12500 points?
These are my stats with an augment with 13.5% bolster:
The augment provides 9.7k stats in power alone. I honestly just want to know what pet you think would actually be useful for a cleric to equip. I shouldn't equip a tank pet that would steal aggro from the actual tank in unpredictable ways. As I've said, the damage from pets (aside from those previously broken) is negligible. My legendary con artist does a whopping 1.1k per hit. I don't need to supplement my heals with a healing companion. Augments provide too many stats, but hey. I get more powerful heals with more power (though my healing is more than sufficient with the stats from an active companion. This would be overkill), so that's what I end up HAVING to use, due to there being no other real options.
That leaves 100% of people with augments in group content. How is that different than live, where 100% of people have active companions? So much of mod 16 takes away diversity that I would love to have the option to have something different.
You will not explain it to him. I have already given up. For me he is a confirmation of the thesis that "+100 to mathematical talents" means "-100 to the imagination". Sad but true.
The removal of de/buffs from companions i guess was inevitable seeing as how things are moving, with one exception i would say fair enough, Yojimbo.
This was offered as a "special" limited time zen companion about a month before M16 hit preview, the Devs/game management knew these changes were incomming and also i would assume understand the corresponding hit to their desirability/usability.
Personally i spent in the region of 10k zen getting these for a main and a alt, plus 1 or 2 i could sell later, to be frank i feel cheated. I also have Tigers but with those at least i have had use of them for quite a while so am not really irritated as stuff can and does change.
However with the Yojimbo i feel like ive been conned (rightly or wrongly that how i feel) i paid for these using zen and now they will be average at best, no better than the myriad of comps that drop every day.
- The delay for bondings to apply is much shorter, 3 seconds or so. That's good.
- The companion influence boon works and even shows on the char sheet, that's good too.
- Augments give significantly more stats than non-augments and benefit from comp influence, the hidden 2k bonus is gone, the augment perk references the HP bonus. All good!
- The way stat transfer works still is as cryptic as before. I couldn't figure out what the new formula is but there's little point in doing so if it's gonna change again next week. All I know for sure is that "Augmentation" transfers 150% of stats (at least at legendary quality).
- the tooltip of rank 15 bondings still says 73% but I can't say if it actually gives that now or if it's still bugged.
- dark enchantments and insignae of dominance still have no effect on companion influence, and instead refer to "companion influence strength".
- The companion "stats and powers" tab still is incomplete and misleading. For example, the new 1k bonus in 3 stats of legendary augments appears on this tab as added to base stats, bumping them from 3450 to 4450 (15% bolster). But in reality the 1k bonus is transfered directly and isn't affected by, eg, the 150% multiplier of "Augmentation".
This system needs to be made a lot more straightforward :
1. have the "stats and powers" tab show (base stats + augment bonus + equipment stats)*(1+companion influence+bolster).
2. have augmentation and bondings transfer the stats actually displayed on the "stats and powers" tab.
Removing debuffs brings back a meta where augments are playable. That's a win in my book (and virtually no one else's)
The way things are currently, there is no reason to use anything BUT an augment. All this has done is switch the meta to the extreme opposite where everyone uses augments again, and no one uses active companions.
All according to keikaku.
That being said, I do think that non-augments are still probably useful for solo play, since they're a way to get combat advantage. And CA bonus is a major stat in Mod 16, so that's a big deal.
Actually I can cofirm that - was soloing a epic SoT - on a tank after dmg "upgrade" on augment 24 mins with summoned pet 18 - that CA and dmg added form pet is making a difference.
So it looks like a new meta - summoned pets for all kind of solo content - augments for team play.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Removing debuffs brings back a meta where augments are playable. That's a win in my book (and virtually no one else's)
The way things are currently, there is no reason to use anything BUT an augment. All this has done is switch the meta to the extreme opposite where everyone uses augments again, and no one uses active companions.
All according to keikaku.
That being said, I do think that non-augments are still probably useful for solo play, since they're a way to get combat advantage. And CA bonus is a major stat in Mod 16, so that's a big deal.
Actually I can cofirm that - was soloing a epic SoT - on a tank after dmg "upgrade" on augment 24 mins with summoned pet 18 - that CA and dmg added form pet is making a difference.
So it looks like a new meta - summoned pets for all kind of solo content - augments for team play.
That's pretty frustrating for me, given that I run an augment and basically only do solo play, but I suppose it's no worse than the old meta, which was "augments are trash."
The removal of de/buffs from companions i guess was inevitable seeing as how things are moving, with one exception i would say fair enough, Yojimbo.
This was offered as a "special" limited time zen companion about a month before M16 hit preview, the Devs/game management knew these changes were incomming and also i would assume understand the corresponding hit to their desirability/usability.
Personally i spent in the region of 10k zen getting these for a main and a alt, plus 1 or 2 i could sell later, to be frank i feel cheated. I also have Tigers but with those at least i have had use of them for quite a while so am not really irritated as stuff can and does change.
However with the Yojimbo i feel like ive been conned (rightly or wrongly that how i feel) i paid for these using zen and now they will be average at best, no better than the myriad of comps that drop every day.
1 step closer to taking a break from NW i guess
I can understand where feedback like this is coming from, but Yojimbo wasn't exactly best-in-slot when he was released, so it's not as if the developers gave us a new-and-improved Chultan Tiger right before the M16 announcement to get everyone to swap out their kitty.
Some players who purchased and/or upgraded debuff companions in recent months may feel that they didn't get enough value out of them, but I think the change is necessary for the game. Debuff companions are potentially far too strong for this new, deflated game design. Also, players may be able to salvage at least some of the investment with the bolster system depending on which category they are heaviest in when M16 launches.
It's true that the Devs must make the changes they deem necessary to fix the game, but they should have been kinder or more forward thinking in what they released in m15. Adding Awesome Thing while knowing that it will get the nerfbat in a few months is a bit disingenuous. Even if the thing isn't as Awesome as it seems, there were a lot of mod 15 additions and changes that essentially became traps.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
A balance of powers must be established before release... so that no blanket statements can be made such as:
"always use a combat companion when solo" and "always use an augment when in a group"
"Always use a combat companion when solo if your build benefits significantly from combat advantage and you have no other means of obtaining it; augments are better in a group unless your team is comprised significantly of ranged attackers making it difficult to obtain flanking" seems sufficiently nuanced to me, and I don't think you're going to get much better than that.
I thought the purpose of the companion change for Mod 16 was so that people could choose different companions and not have to slot one particular type because they are BiS.
However, it's a practical landmine trying to make every companion, augment or summoned, equal. Even if one type offers a 1% advantage over everything else, then it'll be BiS.
As I see it in Preview, if you need stats to round off your character, then slot an augment. However, if you are solo and can't get combat advantage, slot a summoned companion. In parties, where CA may be obtained by other means, then an augment may be preferable. So, while one type may be BiS in a particular setting, it seems that both have their uses in the general run of play when soloing or grouping up.
For people not at end-game or chasing BiS, that is, most levelling characters, the other powers of companions become more important e.g. tanking, healing or perhaps a little more DPS depending on what that player needs. So I suppose the Mod 16 companion system will work better for them. Perhaps this is the demographic that the companion changes would be seen as a success for.
Will the companion change make me use both an augment and summoned companion at particular intervals? Probably. Arguing over what is best theoretically at end-stage, while interesting and useful to thresh out the meta, shouldn't be worth fighting with each other about. The only bad thing I could see come out from this is, if you are in a group and are criticized for running one or the other because it isn't deemed "BiS".
Comments
How will this work in mod16?
We no longer have a distinction between active and idle, only 1 summoned and the rest non summoned. Will all the non summoned be getting this bonus? Maybe those in the current bolster group?
The only situation I could think of is if the enemies had too many stats for us to ever overcome with our own stats, so we would all have to use companions to reduce their defenses to a rate where we could do true damage to them. Then again, the companions are only debuffing by 2k which is equal to 2 rank 14s or equipping an augment, so I still don't know if that would be an insurmountable value to make active companions of any true value.
Maybe I'm missing something (and if I am, please feel free to enlighten me), but it seems that augments are the clear choice in all situations.
That being said, I do think that non-augments are still probably useful for solo play, since they're a way to get combat advantage. And CA bonus is a major stat in Mod 16, so that's a big deal.
The reason debuffs were The Way to Play was because they affect everyone's damage, so having a bunch of debuff companions on a team massively increased the team's overall damage potential. That's a dynamic the dev team is moving away from. I do agree that if your companion is *dead* half the time, there's no point in having them. But last I'd heard, companions were dealing way too much damage due to a series of bugs, so I guess I'm just skeptical that non-augments are useless at this point.
Also, to be clear: you can change ALL of your enchants at the start of mod 16 at no cost, and the rest of your gear is going to quickly be replaced by level 80 gear, so I wouldn't worry too much about your cleric's stats being terrible.
augment
not augment
their difference is very high on stats augment is far better than not augment.
IS it normal or is a bug?
I support the reworking of augments so that they are a viable option. However, I disagree with making everyone a carbon copy of everyone else, and this is yet another move towards that, and I cannot support it.
Also, I have no concern about my enchants or stats in mod 16, I only brought up my stat spread to illustrate the fact that even with less than ideal stats, even as a support class with no emphasis on armor pen or damage, I am able to trounce content on preview without depending on a companion to either tank for me or provide combat advantage, which means the benefit of having a summoned active companion is near to nil.
There should be a benefit to both. If solo content doesn't need summoned companions to tank or provide CA (and based on some feedback, I'm not sure the community at large would appreciate such a difficulty increase in solo content), what does a summoned active companion provide except for less stats than an augment? A lot of people are already saying that they are experiencing an increase in difficulty, which is making doing things in solo content like dailies and HEs take much longer than on live. Considering that many of these people *should have* an active companion to tank or provide CA from live as they provide more combat stats on live than an augment, these people should, in theory, be seeing a decrease in difficulty because they have a companion to provide benefits to them, and yet, that isn't what they are reporting.
If you don't want any of those, then you can have an augment. If one of those three things is valuable to you, then use a summoned creature.
If the dynamic is always that the augment is superior because additional damage is too low, or survivability is too low, or additional healing is too low, maybe those values need to be increased. But this weird idea that in order for a summoned companion to be useful they have to provide a debuff is just silly.
To put it another way, if content doesn't need a tank or whatever, then by the same token, content doesn't need an augment to provide additional stats. So the idea that summoned companions are bad because content is too easy is just perplexingly weird as an argument.
In contrast, having an active companion, that provides less stats and also a debuff, has immense value for a support class in group content. The current generic debuffs that active companions now provide like "Armor Break" reduce an enemy's stats by 2,080. If the dps (or the tank for that matter) have appropriately balanced their stats, reducing an enemy's stats has no effect. So having a combat companion in group content also doesn't make much sense.
I'd prefer if some companions still had debuffs. In group content, dps would still be drawn to use augments to balance their stats, but supports could ALSO have a choice that has value.
As an afterthought, 4/5 people in a party will prefer an augment to make sure their are making the most of their damage, as even tanks need to do damage to generate threat. Having one person in a group with a debuffing companion is not going to unbalance everything.
That means in a group of 5 people, you're basically giving everyone +2500 power. Meaning that the debuff-without any other stat gains-is worth 12500 power. It's actually more depending on how the debuff works (because x1.05 us a bigger increase than going from x2.05 to x2.10 is), so this is a deliberately conservative estimate.
Is the stat differential between augments and non-augments more than 12500 points?
https://imgur.com/a/H974Fyl
These are my stats with an active companion with 14% bolster:
https://imgur.com/a/ztlEJjh
The augment provides 9.7k stats in power alone. I honestly just want to know what pet you think would actually be useful for a cleric to equip. I shouldn't equip a tank pet that would steal aggro from the actual tank in unpredictable ways. As I've said, the damage from pets (aside from those previously broken) is negligible. My legendary con artist does a whopping 1.1k per hit. I don't need to supplement my heals with a healing companion. Augments provide too many stats, but hey. I get more powerful heals with more power (though my healing is more than sufficient with the stats from an active companion. This would be overkill), so that's what I end up HAVING to use, due to there being no other real options.
That leaves 100% of people with augments in group content. How is that different than live, where 100% of people have active companions? So much of mod 16 takes away diversity that I would love to have the option to have something different.
Aside from that, it sounds like the best thing for your build is more stats. And since augments do nothing BUT give more stats, the best thing for your build *should* be an augment. If you WANTED something other companions gave, they'd be the best.
The problem isn't that actives are conceptually useless or whatever-it's that the thing you personally want is what augments should do. You can quibble with the math if you want, but conceptually it sounds like everything's in the right spot.
I have already given up.
For me he is a confirmation of the thesis that "+100 to mathematical talents" means "-100 to the imagination".
Sad but true.
This was offered as a "special" limited time zen companion about a month before M16 hit preview, the Devs/game management knew these changes were incomming and also i would assume understand the corresponding hit to their desirability/usability.
Personally i spent in the region of 10k zen getting these for a main and a alt, plus 1 or 2 i could sell later, to be frank i feel cheated. I also have Tigers but with those at least i have had use of them for quite a while so am not really irritated as stuff can and does change.
However with the Yojimbo i feel like ive been conned (rightly or wrongly that how i feel) i paid for these using zen and now they will be average at best, no better than the myriad of comps that drop every day.
1 step closer to taking a break from NW i guess
- The companion influence boon works and even shows on the char sheet, that's good too.
- Augments give significantly more stats than non-augments and benefit from comp influence, the hidden 2k bonus is gone, the augment perk references the HP bonus. All good!
- The way stat transfer works still is as cryptic as before. I couldn't figure out what the new formula is but there's little point in doing so if it's gonna change again next week. All I know for sure is that "Augmentation" transfers 150% of stats (at least at legendary quality).
- the tooltip of rank 15 bondings still says 73% but I can't say if it actually gives that now or if it's still bugged.
- dark enchantments and insignae of dominance still have no effect on companion influence, and instead refer to "companion influence strength".
- The companion "stats and powers" tab still is incomplete and misleading. For example, the new 1k bonus in 3 stats of legendary augments appears on this tab as added to base stats, bumping them from 3450 to 4450 (15% bolster). But in reality the 1k bonus is transfered directly and isn't affected by, eg, the 150% multiplier of "Augmentation".
This system needs to be made a lot more straightforward :
1. have the "stats and powers" tab show (base stats + augment bonus + equipment stats)*(1+companion influence+bolster).
2. have augmentation and bondings transfer the stats actually displayed on the "stats and powers" tab.
So it looks like a new meta - summoned pets for all kind of solo content - augments for team play.
Some players who purchased and/or upgraded debuff companions in recent months may feel that they didn't get enough value out of them, but I think the change is necessary for the game. Debuff companions are potentially far too strong for this new, deflated game design. Also, players may be able to salvage at least some of the investment with the bolster system depending on which category they are heaviest in when M16 launches.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
"always use a combat companion when solo" and "always use an augment when in a group"
However, it's a practical landmine trying to make every companion, augment or summoned, equal. Even if one type offers a 1% advantage over everything else, then it'll be BiS.
As I see it in Preview, if you need stats to round off your character, then slot an augment. However, if you are solo and can't get combat advantage, slot a summoned companion. In parties, where CA may be obtained by other means, then an augment may be preferable. So, while one type may be BiS in a particular setting, it seems that both have their uses in the general run of play when soloing or grouping up.
For people not at end-game or chasing BiS, that is, most levelling characters, the other powers of companions become more important e.g. tanking, healing or perhaps a little more DPS depending on what that player needs. So I suppose the Mod 16 companion system will work better for them. Perhaps this is the demographic that the companion changes would be seen as a success for.
Will the companion change make me use both an augment and summoned companion at particular intervals? Probably. Arguing over what is best theoretically at end-stage, while interesting and useful to thresh out the meta, shouldn't be worth fighting with each other about. The only bad thing I could see come out from this is, if you are in a group and are criticized for running one or the other because it isn't deemed "BiS".