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Official M16: Warlock

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  • mongol69mongol69 Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    I think those changes are in the right direction. Have you tested curse bite? Is magnitude the same and does it still curse consume on each charge?
  • isaacorion#1994 isaacorion Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    mongol69 said:

    I think those changes are in the right direction. Have you tested curse bite? Is magnitude the same and does it still curse consume on each charge?

    Curse Bite Magnitude dropped to 220
    Fiery Bolt is 160 mag AoE that deals reduced dmg to secondary targets (but it can spread curse now! Rejoice! Oh wait, we had Hellfire Ring for that...)
    Hellfire Ring got dmg cut and CD cut.
    Killing Flames is now 500-750 mag.
    Risky Investment and Creeping Death swapped places on the feat tree.
    Didn't look at Soulweaver.

    Overall, don't like it one bit.
    Warlock: Don't want to let you down but I am hell bound. - Imagine Dragons
    Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown
    Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown
    Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    Fiery Bolt feels somehow a bit too weak, should deal max damage to all mobs but the curse spread is helpfull. HellfireRing lost significant and is hard ot keep in rotation that way, needs more burst at least.
    Curse Bites interrupts gameflow, since you have to "recurse". The curseconsuming effect is from no help against those hard hitting mobs, it somehow feels more like a trap when failing to recurse fast enough, not fluent.
    In the end maybe Curse consume is outdated in the actual setup, actually that aoe-encounter feels more like a "mistake"
    I recommend to go at Vanrakdoom and challange the lev 80 mobs groups.
  • mongol69mongol69 Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Has anyone tested if fiery bolt procs combatants manuever as it does in live? Same goes for hadars grasp. Not sure if the percent for combatant has changed or not since last patch. But it may be worth while in crit builds to still maintain ca if they scale down stats given by lvl 80 gear that was making all opposing stat percentages easily maxed as pointed out by fabricant.
    Post edited by mongol69 on
  • mongol69mongol69 Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    > @schietindebux said:
    > Fiery Bolt feels somehow a bit too weak, should deal max damage to all mobs but the curse spread is helpfull. HellfireRing lost significant and is hard ot keep in rotation that way, needs more burst at least.
    > Curse Bites interrupts gameflow, since you have to "recurse". The curseconsuming effect is from no help against those hard hitting mobs, it somehow feels more like a trap when failing to recurse fast enough, not fluent.
    > In the end maybe Curse consume is outdated in the actual setup, actually that aoe-encounter feels more like a "mistake"
    > I recommend to go at Vanrakdoom and challange the lev 80 mobs groups.

    That's what I was figured would happen with cb if magnitudes dropped, coupled with clunky curse consumption. Hopefully they will increase fb magnitude or make aoe dmg equal as you stated. Aalso, someone said CD reduced, was it a flat percentage drop?
    Post edited by mongol69 on
  • isaacorion#1994 isaacorion Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    Selecting [Risky Investment] feat disables [Executioner's Gift] feat as a choice in the next tier.
    Warlock: Don't want to let you down but I am hell bound. - Imagine Dragons
    Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown
    Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown
    Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
  • isaacorion#1994 isaacorion Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    Gaining a stack of Soul Investiture from Hadar's Grasp (untested if Killing Flames or Accursed Souls have this issue) was not refreshing the duration on the currently summoned puppet.
    Warlock: Don't want to let you down but I am hell bound. - Imagine Dragons
    Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown
    Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown
    Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    Regarding Curse Bite, and in general, if a curse is consumed, shouldn't there always be an additional effect? Consuming it just because seems like a double tax.

    Just for using the encounter, you get charged:
    - cool down time
    - all of your curses

    Another possibility for Prince of Hell here. Curse Bite increases the amount of damage enemies take by X%. The curse is consumed - or something.
  • mongol69mongol69 Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    > @frogwalloper#6494 said:
    > Regarding Curse Bite, and in general, if a curse is consumed, shouldn't there always be an additional effect? Consuming it just because seems like a double tax.
    >
    > Just for using the encounter, you get charged:
    > - cool down time
    > - all of your curses
    >
    > Another possibility for Prince of Hell here. Curse Bite increases the amount of damage enemies take by X%. The curse is consumed - or something.

    There's a feat for additional weapon damage on consume.
  • mat44444mat44444 Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    Hi

    Overall I dislike the changes made in this patch – I feel underpowered and lacking survival fighting trash mobs. I am not overly worried about this, I am sure the designers will sort these balancing issues out.

    My main concern is now I feel the warlock’s are unbalanced when it comes to single target fights. Basically back to one encounter power that only really shines when the target is below 25%. I feel the class really needs another encounter that hits hard and deals good upfront single target damage.

    Basically I feel this patch is a step backwards

    Have a lovely weekend all
  • btfdbtfd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 177 Arc User
    > @mat44444 said:
    > Hi
    >
    > Overall I dislike the changes made in this patch – I feel underpowered and lacking survival fighting trash mobs. I am not overly worried about this, I am sure the designers will sort these balancing issues out.
    >
    > My main concern is now I feel the warlock’s are unbalanced when it comes to single target fights. Basically back to one encounter power that only really shines when the target is below 25%. I feel the class really needs another encounter that hits hard and deals good upfront single target damage.
    >
    > Basically I feel this patch is a step backwards
    >
    > Have a lovely weekend all

    Guess this is what soul scorch is supposed to be.

  • warravanawarravana Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    In whose sick imagination did you have the idea to swap Risky Investment and Creeping Death? This person generally represents what he did and that one without the other is absolutely useless without a permanent soul puppet?
    El sol negro brilla, en la frente de la locura el firmar,
    Kelemvor tomó mi trono de la muerte, pero soy eterno en la oscuridar...
    https://www.youtube.com/c/cyric
  • mat44444mat44444 Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    btfd said:

    > @mat44444 said:

    > Hi

    >

    > Overall I dislike the changes made in this patch – I feel underpowered and lacking survival fighting trash mobs. I am not overly worried about this, I am sure the designers will sort these balancing issues out.

    >

    > My main concern is now I feel the warlock’s are unbalanced when it comes to single target fights. Basically back to one encounter power that only really shines when the target is below 25%. I feel the class really needs another encounter that hits hard and deals good upfront single target damage.

    >

    > Basically I feel this patch is a step backwards

    >

    > Have a lovely weekend all



    Guess this is what soul scorch is supposed to be.


    Guess it fails then

    Have a lovely day

  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    warravana said:

    In whose sick imagination did you have the idea to swap Risky Investment and Creeping Death? This person generally represents what he did and that one without the other is absolutely useless without a permanent soul puppet?

    That´s what I commented on page 5. ..headaching somehow

    "Feat Risky Investment is now paired with Soul Desecration" .. do you say I can chose between Risky Investment or Soul desecration now? So i have to decide between having a permanent Soulpuppet by my side, or having a Soulpuppet by spawning one plus a 5% buff on top, neither works actually since HG doesn´t work as tooltip says. (now please don´t change tooltip and call it a day)
    Consequence: Going dps setup I pick Risky Investment, going puppet path I take the puppet but can´t have a buff on top instead buff the puppet itself with Soulinvestiture by HG (if working).
    I don´t mind tbh. but the more logic setup was the way things were before, 1.Puppet, 2. buff puppet and myself, go with a puppetsetup by using HG in your rotation. Now I get a headache to chose either RI, and by that i am forced to use HG in my rotation to stack that 5% buff even tough HG doesn´t work, or take that "permapuppet" and have the option to buff that puppet even tough I am a pure dps setup, using HG in theory wich spends Sould Investiture (60%+dps for the puppet). I can also just ignore the puppet and just give up using HG as a essential part of my gameplay to take benefit from SI or RI buff.
    This changes lead to a more rigid setup for the dps path and I myself don´t see the advantage concerning gameplay, looks like a disadvantage to me...

    "Creeping Death is now paired with Executioner's Gift"
    "Executioner's Gift is now a maximum of 20% boost."...hm again buff vs buff to chose, both doing the same in the end. That doesn´t feel good to me. I take Executioner Gift, since Creeping Death is not working.
    Dps path won an optional stacking 5%-buff (not working) and leadng to a rigid setup but lost a 10% dps increase (not working) so a "patt".
  • skuallpwskuallpw Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    it feels like u can x2 the magnitude of all the warlock spells and still wouldnt be enough ....
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    skuallpw said:

    it feels like u can x2 the magnitude of all the warlock spells and still wouldnt be enough ....

    No, it won´t, simple math in my eyes.
    Actually classes are devided into:
    1. classes pushed and improved with some passion and
    2. classes that get ignored in most aspects
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Actually Sentinell looks a bit out of order tbh.
    GF 3759 power, 79% effectiveness, Anvil of doom 9156, Griffons Wrath 3x3662 , ShieldThrow 5493
    Wizard 3570 power (eff 83.4%), Repell, Desintegrate, entagle

    GF-Dreadnaught, (eff 78%)= 25635/44.8 (CD) =572.2(dps)
    Wizard-Arcanist-dps (eff 83.4%)=17183/33.2=517(dps)
    Warlock-Hell (eff 82.5)=15370 (Cbx2)/36.1(CD)=425.7(dps)
    GF-Vanguard-tanksetup (eff 77.3)= 13087/49.9=262.2 (dps)
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • douglasopferbeckdouglasopferbeck Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    We definitely need another hard hitting single target power. Perhaps boosting Hadars grasp up to a meaningful magnitude.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User


    Actually classes are devided into:
    1. classes pushed and improved with some passion and
    2. classes that get ignored in most aspects

    +
    magnitude 500*8=4000


    magnitude 500*30=15000



    SW

    When you check both classes on a dummy they maybe pretty close to each other on the dps tree imo, hard to tell exactly.
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 332 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Hellbringer
    I can understand that people wanted fiery bolt back to AOE damage, but now we have only 1 hard-hitting (lol) encounter for single target. And KF is not that great . Single target needs love, and I hope SWs will end being excellent at it.
    We need another hard-hitting encounter.
    In addition maybe you could modify the soulscorch mechanic: less sparks should be consumed. I would suggest to reduce to 3 sparks and/OR buff the damage done by soulscorch. Also it would be nice if soulscorch could had a chance to apply a curse.

    As for trash mobs:
    -now we have a useless fiery bolt because of the low magnitude...
    -many people commented here to have pillar of power back to dps path, but now we have the hellfire ring (unlocked at level 80), that does more or less the same thing (damage in a round circle+ curse). It would be great if mobs leaving the hellfire circle could keep the curse and if you could revert the loss of magnitude (as @schietindebux mentioned). . It is better to leave the pillar of power in soulweaver since it is a party buff which is more linked to support. Still I don't get why hellfire damage was cut.
    -curse bite: as mentioned by others, "having Curse Bite consume Lesser Curse still feels clunky and awful" and it makes no sense because of the double charge it is meant to have. -->Please remove the curse consume from curse bite (or offer a possibility that the next encounter used after the first charge will apply a curse before we can use the second charge, or reduce magnitude as long as we have two charges that can be used in a row).

    Feats: the new distribution seems better (the pairing is more consistent!) for the dps path. Except the feat for soul investiture: more powers should trigger a puppet then.
    However, now there is no choice anymore of playing "puppet" or pure damage only.

    As some others pointed out, some classes have way better magnitudes (of course, you have to take feats and mechanics into account), but unless SWs are buffed, or other dps classes nerfed (?), this unbalance and underpower feeling will be ongoing (because we cannot compare at all with module 15, and we can just compare on raw figures from other classes that are evolving on preview as well).
    The damage buffs can happen only once bugs and mess are addressed (i.e having okayish paths in every class for the mod16 launch), and then buffing the damage and enhancing will be easier.
    But meanwhile, don't nerf us too much :) We are not as overpowered as you seem to think...........
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Member Posts: 133 Arc User

    warravana said:

    In whose sick imagination did you have the idea to swap Risky Investment and Creeping Death? This person generally represents what he did and that one without the other is absolutely useless without a permanent soul puppet?

    That´s what I commented on page 5. ..headaching somehow

    "Feat Risky Investment is now paired with Soul Desecration" .. do you say I can chose between Risky Investment or Soul desecration now? So i have to decide between having a permanent Soulpuppet by my side, or having a Soulpuppet by spawning one plus a 5% buff on top, neither works actually since HG doesn´t work as tooltip says. (now please don´t change tooltip and call it a day)
    Consequence: Going dps setup I pick Risky Investment, going puppet path I take the puppet but can´t have a buff on top instead buff the puppet itself with Soulinvestiture by HG (if working).
    I don´t mind tbh. but the more logic setup was the way things were before, 1.Puppet, 2. buff puppet and myself, go with a puppetsetup by using HG in your rotation. Now I get a headache to chose either RI, and by that i am forced to use HG in my rotation to stack that 5% buff even tough HG doesn´t work, or take that "permapuppet" and have the option to buff that puppet even tough I am a pure dps setup, using HG in theory wich spends Sould Investiture (60%+dps for the puppet). I can also just ignore the puppet and just give up using HG as a essential part of my gameplay to take benefit from SI or RI buff.
    This changes lead to a more rigid setup for the dps path and I myself don´t see the advantage concerning gameplay, looks like a disadvantage to me...

    "Creeping Death is now paired with Executioner's Gift"
    "Executioner's Gift is now a maximum of 20% boost."...hm again buff vs buff to chose, both doing the same in the end. That doesn´t feel good to me. I take Executioner Gift, since Creeping Death is not working.
    Dps path won an optional stacking 5%-buff (not working) and leadng to a rigid setup but lost a 10% dps increase (not working) so a "patt".
    Just checked and risky investment is WAI after patch (thanks for fix), but having it procced only by HG, VE, AS (that looks like wasting a daily) and KF (on kill) makes the feat relying on a few options to stack soul investiture. Having some of above mentioned powers buffed or another SI stacking mechanics, like M15's +1 stack on enemy killed or considering curse bite as 100% curse consume, would be awesome. Want to add that soul investiture inherited a quite twisted logic from current mod: reached 5 stacks all of them are fading away after 20 seconds: it should be more consistent if each stack will have its own cooldown, but I don't really mind about that.
    Concerning new feat placement: I could be wrong, but new setup is actually giving the chance to stack both risky investment and executioner gifts on boss fights. Puppet feat is worth a +1 on SI stacks on an single target rotation, surely less than current t4 feats, while it is way more useful on AoE, as none of curse consuming skills are in an optmal rotation. Same for CD reduction feats, as harder to get full sparks/SI on mobs fights. That said, I find current feat setup a buff overall.
    Creeping Death vs Executioner's Gift choose needs a bit more care for sure: both have really close effects (assuming CD will be fixed).

    Actually Sentinell looks a bit out of order tbh.

    Agree on not using barbarian as comparison: big changes happened lately and I am expecting class being a lot unstable patch by patch.
    About other classes I didn't make any class comparisons yet after patch, but I feel latest changes are a step in the right direction: killing flames buff (even if not as strong as previous patch fiery bolt) gives reverted fiery bolt a solid cursing option and double thumbs up on HF ring cooldown reduction, best change by far. Patch notes also showed as some high magnitude skills on other classes have been toned down, that proves devs are aware warlock was behind in the chart on single target damage. I don't see the point in all that rage posts and either how that could help solving current class problems, but anyone is free to express his feeling as he prefers.
    On encounter side, some of them looks quite in a bad spot at the moment. Saving infernal spheres (but I see it better placed on generic path tbh) and HG for PvP reason, I am struggling finding a spot in any rotation for dreadtheft and arms of hadar. The first one is basically useless (bad damage, no utility), but maybe I am wrong and somebody else can enlighten me, the second one feels very clunky and works really bad on not-flat surfaces, I see the great job behind HF ring and I wonder if possible having a brand new encounter replacing it, maybe it will be faster than make current one work. It would be great having it for mod16 but I am aware that requires quite a different time/work so I would be happy knowing the issue is acknowledge and will be faced in close future.
    At last: class features seems very well placed now and I am looking forward to see which pick will be choose to replace prince of hell.
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 332 Arc User
    ramesh84 said:

    On encounter side, some of them looks quite in a bad spot at the moment. Saving infernal spheres (but I see it better placed on generic path tbh) and HG for PvP reason, I am struggling finding a spot in any rotation for dreadtheft and arms of hadar. The first one is basically useless (bad damage, no utility), but maybe I am wrong and somebody else can enlighten me, the second one feels very clunky and works really bad on not-flat surfaces, I see the great job behind HF ring and I wonder if possible having a brand new encounter replacing it, maybe it will be faster than make current one work. It would be great having it for mod16 but I am aware that requires quite a different time/work so I would be happy knowing the issue is acknowledge and will be faced in close future.

    I actually saw one sw using infernal spheres to apply curse, then curse bite could be used. It works well and may be used by people that are not level 80 ?
    Dreadtheft has no utility imo because we are stuck channeling it: maybe it should control the mobs (to slow them and/or reduce damage) but differently from arms of hadar.
    I don't really like arms of hadar (yes it is indeed clunky) but I am getting used to it for trash mobs. If the radius was increased (and cast time feeling reduced), I would be very happy.
    The real useless power is the daily "flames of phlegestos" but it can be worked out later. Same for gates of hell that lost its interest. Once module 16 is more or less in place, we will have plenty of time to think to fancy effects :)

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