Official M16: General Feedback

seveninchblade

I think Sharp's point is that there are far more pressing issues in the game than whether a single class has appropriate flavor to its spells.

thefiresidecat

theycallmetomu said:

baeyorn said:

theycallmetomu said:

baeyorn said:

Ok, finished the grind to 80 late last night/early this morning. A few highlights/lowlights from hither and yon.

* do not stand in the red! too many gwfs/barbies, pallies, rogues, etc ignore the indicator red warnings. BAAAD habits from live build. some of these NPCs will one-shot you, even the level 70 ones.

* You had better have defense needed for the level. defense of 14000 for level 70 up to 24000 for level 80. memorize this, learn it, sear it into your brain.

* The boons structure is actually pretty simple... take the 1st three on the left for tiers 1-4, and add in defense or dps for the various npc types. First 3 on the left are hp/Power, plus to crit or armor pen, and resistance to crit or armor pen. I forget which are which tier, but toss points into attack/defense against undead/cultists/demons/etc. They will come in handy as you go through the zones.

* Since there is no VIP on preview, have a supply of intense injury kits. I would up using about 60 in the trek from 70 to 80.

* I would suggest a supply of Mass Life or scrolls of life resurrection scrolls. Nothing less than a count of 100 I would think.

* The next to last boss fight in Vandrakdoom(?) against Kesera (?) took me 2-1/2 hours to figure out as a barb. Since i do less dmg than a plastic butter knife (and I apologize to all butter knives out there), I could not fight her straight up. Wound up re-speccing into all the defense I could carry as a dps barb, changed out my enchants, radiant rank 13 to azure rank 13 in defense slots, and replaced my unparalled fey with a rank 12 holy avenger.

* Still wound up kiting her all the way back up to where Celeste was cooling her jets at the entrance. Used an earth archon at legendary and just did a hit and run attack sequence on her. It was the only way I could avoid getting one-shotted by her Netherese orbs.

* When you go in to free Umbraxal, do not attack him, Using the Light of Elune attack only. I had to leave and re-start the fight since I actually took him to 1 hp health, and could not make the Light of Elune attack work.

* The markers are very confusing at the end of the Umbraxal fight. i wasn't sure if I needed to use the light at the stage, or on Glytrax(?0/Umbraxal in the middle of the room.

Lastly, a question... I've got all the tasks done in the campaign, except for Lair of the Mad Wizard. I cannot find any one in Yawning Portal or in Vandrakdoom that has a breadcumb quest..?

PS - Aside from the preview-usual bugs, and often mentioned barbarian dps and survival issues, was a solid trek from 70 to 80. I enjoyed the Twisted zone and Wylldwood zones the most. Wylldwood, amazing thing.. SHAPE-SHIFTING DRUIDS!!

That is all.

Netherese Orb?!? SPOILER ALERT! Man, wasn't expecting to find anything from Netheril down here.

Is this Shade related? They never did follow up on that thing at the end of mod ... what was it, 12?

whole theme from Vandrakdoom is rescusing a dragon breing pulled into/changed into a shadowdragon.

A couple areas there you have to go into a shadowfell copy of the area. Pretty cool.

Oh, BTW.. those gloom knights hit HARD!!

Yikes. My whole strategy for playing MMOs is "do nothing difficult, always overlevel." So who knows if I'll even bother with this content once it hits live.

that's my preference too

dupeks

adinosii said:

asterdahl said:

I do hope you continue to give the changes a try, we welcome the feedback.

Oh, I am, but as I said, I am not a big fan of the removal of choices. I like complexity.

Bear in mind a big reason to be excited about this is that removal of powers / interactions might make the game balance easier to manage on limited resources.

The prior approach to balance kind of felt like whack-a-mole, especially with continued development of new moles. Even if this is a step back in terms of choice, it might make for viable non-bug-dependent choices. Who knows hah.

iandarksword

I feel like this MMO is being redesigned more for people who want to crunch numbers, read spreadsheets, and less about people who actually play D&D. Funny, because it's being marketed by Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast to the latter, and thus will attract those people with the pen and paper background. Therefore due to marketing, we've been faced with two opposing philosophies in gameplay and whether or not the game remains true to it's "roots" really comes into question. Can this be considered an MMORPG, similar to it's table top predecessor, or is it now an MMO-Style Combat-Oriented Action Adventure game? That's up to the individual. I have found that if one completely takes away the association with Dungeons and Dragons table top expectations, that it's less disappointing to fans of the table top mindset. This game is a far cry from the table top iteration and moves farther away from there, rather than closer as we were led to believe, with this module. It's still relatable to D&D by virtue of being set within the Forgotten Realms.

theycallmetomu

seveninchblade said:

I think Sharp's point is that there are far more pressing issues in the game than whether a single class has appropriate flavor to its spells.

Well, that's true.

thefiresidecat

raiderone000 said:

Here are some of my concerns after checking out the Preview of Mod16.

1)Biggest concern is the changes to Initial Stats. Maybe they aren't updated yet? Why would all Classes use the same type?
It doesn't make sense to me. The Initial Stats are way too generic. Look at Paladins and Clerics, they should have Main Stats
of Wisdom and Charisma. It seems like a lot of Stat clarification is missing. I am totally undecided on how to even regulate them on certain Character Types because of lack of depth. Too much Min/Maxing too. No reason to other stats!

2)2nd Big concern is the pigeon holing of Powers/Feats. Why do they have to be based on Specific DPS/Tank Build?
If I want Lay on Hands for a Tank Pally, I should be able to take it instead of another. Some powers should be shared between builds at least. It's like I've seen others say, A major simplification of Character Types. Not Good.

3)Why the big increase in Item Level to existing items? When are you going to leave it alone?
Primal was 500. Now it's like 600+ It's the continuous power boost.

4)Why change Companions Gear? From Runestones to Enhancements. I don't like it but it's my least concern.
Although it will impact all my toons and cause major change to how things are equipped. Keep in mind many folks
have invested in updating them. Hopefully all can be converted, not just Eldrich.

I feel like all these changes will change how I like to play the game. And highly doubt I will continue.
I mean the profession changes were drastic and I evolved with them. But changing my Character Types to their Core is Bad.
I have never seen a game make these type of drastic changes. I have played DDO for 11 years before coming over to NW.
The good thing about DDO is that I could back to today and the CORE will not CHANGE!!! They have added, but the Heroic version of the Toon is the SAME. EPIC version starts to change and is complex. But at least DDO feels like D&D.
I'm not sure NW is D&D any more!!! Or ever was...

As far as I'm concerned this might as well be NW2 or 3 based on what I've read from forums and MOD6.
If you are going to make a new game, maybe everything should be wiped! That's what this feels like to me.

the big increase to existing things is so people have some small hope of making it thru the new zone with what they have until it can be replaced by higher gear. the first quest gives you things that are just about equal to your current primal gear. I'm guessing by the third or fourth quest you start to get stuff that is higher than your current gear.

dominious12

I like the new condensed format for the powers page. It was always irritating for me scrolling up and down trying to find one particular power when changing my setup, so having everything segregated by power type and all visible on one page is very nice. Likewise the same is true of the combined boons page, though I am a little disappointed by the master tier boons, as none of them really seem comparable to what we had before.

When the Harvester mobs that spawn in all the new zones explode on death, the explosion visual and the red indicator are out of sync with the actual explosion. So you can start to move through the area after it appears to have exploded, only to be hit with the knockback and paralysis.

Mobs in some zones deal insanely high damage out of sync with anything you would expect. Places I've noticed it so far; the stronghold map, very first pack of mobs in Castle Never, Ras Nsi in TONG, ogres in the catacombs, the second boss of Lair of the Mad Wizard, and one of Arcturia's attacks in Lair (Necrotic something, I didn't catch exactly what it was but it hit me for 50mil through block).

obsidiancran3

Demonic Enchantment: Critical Strike 0 (its the offensive stat)
Tomes of XP don't work past 71, which with some 70 odd in my inventory is a bit of a pain.

So far I haven't had any troubles on my OP or SW soloing content (both 16k toons on live) that is intended to be solo content. I'm also enjoying the new content and seeing actual new stuff on the screen - especially monsters. For me this is looking like a mod that will keep me playing NW. I like the removal of false complexity that exists now and hope that the new choices can be balanced out better in the coming weeks to make them more of a choice and thus create real complexity in choices.

Boons:
Its really good that lower tier boons still count for increasing your total boon points spent and thus unlock higher tiers.

The Master Boons are bad for character building because of the random factor in them. Having one of 3 effects every 30s is impossible to plan around effectively, making the value of the final boons far smaller than their predictable lower tier boons.

Blessed Resilience - how does this even work for the Rank 2 effect? What is the duration? This can result in you suddenly dying when you have taken more damage than your normal maximum and then this runs out. At least Lingering Resistance (Tier 3) states the duration.

If you already have all the campaign boons, you cannot do anything with the Boon points added through the new campaign.

wolfiekahn

I think someone needs to bring the change on attribute pre-sets and how bonus's on attributes are not working properly. I noticed being Scourge Warlock that my main attribute that affects my DPS output has changed from what i see.. its no longer constitution but INT.. ok thats fine, so i did a reset and changed the distrubition of attribute points to focus solely on my main stats of Char and Int... so after jacking my int to 26 and char to 26.. the magic dmg bonus shows ... o% ? that must be a bug.. I figure with that high i score on my INT i should be getting about 10-12% dmg bonus on my attacks.. It shows same on many other classes for their main attributes that have been focused that high.. all are not showing a bonus. I can assume its visual issue or it actually is not calculating that modifier bonus for stat score which would have a significant impact on damage calculations/etc regarding most these classes..

theycallmetomu

wolfiekahn#3786 said:

I think someone needs to bring the change on attribute pre-sets and how bonus's on attributes are not working properly. I noticed being Scourge Warlock that my main attribute that affects my DPS output has changed from what i see.. its no longer constitution but INT.. ok thats fine, so i did a reset and changed the distrubition of attribute points to focus solely on my main stats of Char and Int... so after jacking my int to 24 and char to 26.. the magic dmg bonus shows ... o% ? that must be a bug.. I figure with that high i score on my INT i should be getting about 10-12% dmg bonus on my attacks.. It shows same on many other classes for their main attributes that have been focused that high.. all are not showing a bonus. I can assume its visual issue or it actually is not calculating that modifier bonus for stat score which would have a significant impact on damage calculations/etc regarding most these classes..

I can also confirm a weird +0% bug going on. Either the tooltips or the actual math on ability scores is messed up beyond measure.

wisper2048

Campaign completion tokens for Ravenloft and AI do not complete boons for these campaigns. I get first boon of four complete.

wolfiekahn

Also i noticed that the bonus for hags rags shows as "snipers Perk" (Ranged powers do 3% more damage) but the buff for terrored arms isnt showing like hags rags as anything (Encounter powers do 3% more damage) .. my question is both of those buffs in effect during combat even though the terrored arms encounter damage buff is not listed in buffs or is this another bug?

wolfiekahn

Demogorgons Girdle of might is not displaying proper stats on it for Legend version.. its displaying +1 con +1 str when it should be displaying "+2 STR +2 CON"

thefiresidecat

dupeks said:

adinosii said:

asterdahl said:

I do hope you continue to give the changes a try, we welcome the feedback.

Oh, I am, but as I said, I am not a big fan of the removal of choices. I like complexity.

Bear in mind a big reason to be excited about this is that removal of powers / interactions might make the game balance easier to manage on limited resources.

The prior approach to balance kind of felt like whack-a-mole, especially with continued development of new moles. Even if this is a step back in terms of choice, it might make for viable non-bug-dependent choices. Who knows hah.

it's called throwing th ebaby out with the bathwater. I'd rather they just debugged what we had and fixed tooltips.

baeyorn

I want to re-state this point, since it kinda got lost in my earlier dissertation.

On the fight with Kesera (sp?), the camp fire you spawn at is in the same room. This the end of the quest where you find all of Vandrak's armor/rings, etc.

She was lurking around the spawn at the campfire, and one shotting me left and right.

Please move that campfire up the stairs to one side or the other.

Honestly had visions of being in Stranglethorn, and have enemy players lurking over my dead body..

dread4moor

theycallmetomu said:

velahryn#7236 said:

thefabricant said:

Except the lack of a fireball is not an issue and only people who are stuck in a fantasy pen and paper world and not those who realize they are first and foremost playing an mmo complain about it.

oooook

Yeah, my main thought is that, people who are attracted to Neverwinter because it's D&D (which is, ONE IMAGINES, the purpose of Cryptic licensing the Neverwinter name even if the mechanics of the game have nothing to do with D&D) would like the game to "feel" like they're playing D&D in some sense.

The monsters go a long way to that-Beholders and Mind Flayers and other "product identity" type creatures that you don't see in other properties (at least not without name changes for legal reasons), but there's no reason we can't implement the things that can be implemented.

I mean, that's why the class names were changed-specifically GWF -> Barbarian after all.

But I guess Fab here doesn't care about that kind of thing, and wants to give people who do grief.

I guess it is more like a movie that is "Based on..." or "Inspired by...".
Zero chance that an MMO can perfectly emulate current edition table-top D and D.
It's a suspension of disbelief we accept going in.

Many bugs and flaws here, but they are functional issues. Not thematic issues.

Neverwinter was, is and always will be "D&D-ish".

We knew that going in.

majorcharvenak

theycallmetomu said:

majorcharvenak said:

Hey! When did scrolls of Life and Mass life start giving rezz sickness? Is this a bug? Was it in the patchnotes? If so I definitely missed that memo.

You don't happen to have VIP on live, do you?

I don't. If that's the case, then that explains it.

hustin1

Please remove the sound effect from the Negation enchantment. It is ANNOYING AS HELL hearing it coming from everywhere when other people are nearby.

silvertail

Bug: 1: Can't finish the Attunement Crystals quest. Says get etchings from reward chest and chest isn't working.
2:Twisted Caverns has a glitch that puts you outside of map.
3: question marks pop up over everyone's head when you go to third floor.

Gear doesn't always show differences. When it does show are the different value's correct?

theycallmetomu

dread4moor said:

theycallmetomu said:

velahryn#7236 said:

thefabricant said:

Except the lack of a fireball is not an issue and only people who are stuck in a fantasy pen and paper world and not those who realize they are first and foremost playing an mmo complain about it.

oooook

Yeah, my main thought is that, people who are attracted to Neverwinter because it's D&D (which is, ONE IMAGINES, the purpose of Cryptic licensing the Neverwinter name even if the mechanics of the game have nothing to do with D&D) would like the game to "feel" like they're playing D&D in some sense.

The monsters go a long way to that-Beholders and Mind Flayers and other "product identity" type creatures that you don't see in other properties (at least not without name changes for legal reasons), but there's no reason we can't implement the things that can be implemented.

I mean, that's why the class names were changed-specifically GWF -> Barbarian after all.

But I guess Fab here doesn't care about that kind of thing, and wants to give people who do grief.

I guess it is more like a movie that is "Based on..." or "Inspired by...".
Zero chance that an MMO can perfectly emulate current edition table-top D and D.
It's a suspension of disbelief we accept going in.

Many bugs and flaws here, but they are functional issues. Not thematic issues.

Neverwinter was, is and always will be "D&D-ish".

We knew that going in.

Then why did they rename the GWF to Barbarian

Powers were named after 4th edition powers. (Sudden Storm for instance was named after the Stormspell Mage paragon path encounter power, hence why it wasn't originally set to Lightning Bolt)

There's no reason not to rename things to match the aesthetics better. It's not a deal breaker that they don't, but it's just a pointless unforced error to deliberately avoid doing so.

rjc9000

In light of the "interesting" damage of artifacts...

On the assumption that the dev team can balance artifact damage versus other utility, I think some artifacts should have some semblance of damage, but not to the point of "free 50 million damage for doing nothing".

I would hope that there could be more interesting selections in artifacts besides "pick what has good stats" or "pick the one with a great utility bonus". Could have some unique artifacts that are great for pure damage, but terrible for everything else, in addition to the other current things to consider when picking artifacts.

I get it if the devs consider artifacts that deal damage to be too much work for what it was worth. After all, there have been some unusual bugs with artifacts in the past (see: Forgehammer refreshing itself under Artificer's or Chromatic Storm's debuff scaling) and I wouldn't want an experience where people are encouraged to nuke enemies with artifacts, sit at campfires waiting for the cooldown to come off, and then repeat...

fdsakhfduewhfiuf

After pressing the transfer button to transfer items from the overflow bag to the inventory all the items just vanished. I was accessing the bank at that time but don't know if that's related to the issue.

thefiresidecat

at the end of quest lines in between campaign boxes. like the last quest of into the catacombs and the last quest of catacomb depths.. leave you hanging. first one It took me awhile to figure out I needed to go to campaign. then when I did do it, the harper quest didn't light up right away. it would be nice if there was direction after the quest turned in, like go to your campaign details now and then talk to the harper again for your next step. I'm not the only one having this problem. I've helped out some people after me who were asking in zone about it. the second one I knew what was going on but it still would be nice.

varixo

Powers tab still blinks in the character window on 80 lvl and all feats taken (i had, before m16, 124 power points)

feuerwolf

> @"kythelion#3210" said:
> Why on Earth would you purposely remove the ability to roll or select starting ability scores?! That's one of the few places we could nuance and personalize a class to a particular playstyle or goal now that you created stock characters to choose from. If you don't like rolling ability scores why not go with a point buy? What if I don't want my cleric to have high wisdom or low Dex, for example?

I like to personalize my toon by throwing some dice. Now I have to play a premade character. Why is rolling ability scores being removed? #sad

adinosii

The pop-up when leveling up is a bit outdated...

minotaur2857

asterdahl said:

minotaur2857 said:

No campfire in the YP ?

What campfire functionality are you looking for? It should be possible to change load outs and do most other things anywhere in the Yawning Portal.

Invoking, wasn't allowed to

Also how about VIP on the test server so we can see what's changed with say identify scrolls.

minotaur2857

asterdahl said:

manjusriyamantak said:

Aaaaannnnd sooo…. the Masterwork weapons and artifact gear are obsolete now. Again. Not to mention the rings/neck/waist pieces that can no longer be put on companions. Just like all the pessimists predicted with the Mod 15 professions overhaul. Why did you bother?

The CTA weapons are even more obsolete, and if I have my IL reckoning right, so are the Tales of Old artifact sets.

I was really hoping you wouldn’t do that. The IL boost to the MW weapons seemed to leave enough room to “fill in” spaces between them and primals, as the CTA weapons seemed to be doing. But no. The Undermountain weapons are not only stronger than MW III weapons, but *much* stronger (~30% at green).


You could have added a Mythic level to weapons and artifact gear, that could only be unlocked once your character was level 80.

Or just kept the level cap at 70, since Item Level long ago effectively replaced character level, and raising the cap doesn’t change that.

There will be new masterwork recipes in the future. With a level cap increase, you're going to replace your old equipment all at once, I know this can be a bit frustrating—we don't do it lightly. However, I think it would be even more unexpected if your level 70 equipment were still best in slot when you hit level 80.

It doesn't need to be BIS, but it could do with being serviceable. It's really not that long ago that people splashed out eyewateringly large amounts of ADs for +1 MW weapons. There was a perception among many that once you started uprating the MW weapons with new releases that this would continue. As a crafter, many people will feel that it's not worth the expense of weapons that are going to be rendered irrelevant so fast in the future.

thefiresidecat

there is a misspelling in the undermountain store things that have incoming damage... are spelled incomming (that infuriates Morbo lol)

thefiresidecat

minotaur2857 said:

asterdahl said:

minotaur2857 said:

No campfire in the YP ?

What campfire functionality are you looking for? It should be possible to change load outs and do most other things anywhere in the Yawning Portal.

Invoking, wasn't allowed to

Also how about VIP on the test server so we can see what's changed with say identify scrolls.

there is nothing to identify anymore.. why should there be identify scrolls? although point taken on vip.. it would be nice to have in test.