thundermuggsMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1Arc User
I've been playing D&D since the early 80's. NW introduced itself as a model of D&D, which is why i started playing in late 2013 after NW nights. This mod eliminates the character creation and evolution of that premise. Simple Ability score rolling to class and race, is the creation process, and should not be eliminated. It appears NW is transitioning towards a non D&D player base and more towards a conventional MMO, EverQuest and World of Warcraft player base. Wizards of the Coast should consider this in the Dev process. Balance and Class is needed but to what extreme, to much is not better. Delay until and get it right, should not of attached such a significant change to a level increase and expansion Mod. The transitions i've adjusted to over the last 6 years has been difficult, but worth while and acceptable, but this is outrageous, the investment to Mastercrafting alone is insulting, now that its useless. There are many more examples of this disregard that have been noted already. I will follow undates on preview. CF
5
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I've been playing D&D since the early 80's. NW introduced itself as a model of D&D, which is why i started playing in late 2013 after NW nights. This mod eliminates the character creation and evolution of that premise. Simple Ability score rolling to class and race, is the creation process, and should not be eliminated. It appears NW is transitioning towards a non D&D player base and more towards a conventional MMO, EverQuest and World of Warcraft player base. Wizards of the Coast should consider this in the Dev process. Balance and Class is needed but to what extreme, to much is not better. Delay until and get it right, should not of attached such a significant change to a level increase and expansion Mod. The transitions i've adjusted to over the last 6 years has been difficult, but worth while and acceptable, but this is outrageous, the investment to Mastercrafting alone is insulting, now that its useless. There are many more examples of this disregard that have been noted already. I will follow undates on preview. CF
I invested in MW5 Tailoring, because I assumed that there would eventually be MW6 tailoring. So it's frustrating that MW5 tailoring gear isn't BiS anymore (or even useful) but I'm sure that it'll pay off eventually.
But yeah: there's just no reason at all for the ability score rule changes, and the team should revert back to mod 15's style of ability scores.
I have no idea in which sction to write it, but maybe it would be possible to improve to a higher level the enchantment to armor such as Loamweave and change/improve it mechanic, because no one benefits from rooting
this is the big problem i have with the preview version. no way to have a unique build anymore, all the effort and time we put into our builds is just being trashed
I've seen comments made several times about "unique" builds being gone. Every one of these posts ignores the fact that if you were running a "unique" build before M16 it was definitely suboptimal, possibly even trash, anyway. M16 makes it at least a little bit more difficult to pick trap talents, although it's still possible. As someone that does random queue on a regular basis, I support the idea of limiting the number of bad decisions other players can make.
Just wondering if it's too late for them to reconsider the class changes at this point.... IMO they should keep the level cap increase, new zones and content, but throw all the massive game play changes away.
3
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
Complimentary Feedback
The environments in Mod16 are gorgeous. The terrain, background details, subtle lighting effects... stunning. I particularly like the Tavern. Feels grounded and fun to run around with it's circular design. And a bartender who walks away from you and you have to grab his attention. Got a laugh out of that. Please extend congrats to the artists for their work.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
this is the big problem i have with the preview version. no way to have a unique build anymore, all the effort and time we put into our builds is just being trashed
I've seen comments made several times about "unique" builds being gone. Every one of these posts ignores the fact that if you were running a "unique" build before M16 it was definitely suboptimal, possibly even trash, anyway. M16 makes it at least a little bit more difficult to pick trap talents, although it's still possible. As someone that does random queue on a regular basis, I support the idea of limiting the number of bad decisions other players can make.
there are builds for solo , questing , farming and whatnot , not every1 is into "metagame" and running dungeons as fast as possible
The environments in Mod16 are gorgeous. The terrain, background details, subtle lighting effects... stunning. I particularly like the Tavern. Feels grounded and fun to run around with it's circular design. And a bartender who walks away from you and you have to grab his attention. Got a laugh out of that. Please extend congrats to the artists for their work.
the artwork is nice. it reminds me of the fantasy artwork and depictions in fantasy books and d and d choose your own adventure stories in the 80's. it's very nostalgic and feel good
> @hercules125 said: > Just wondering if it's too late for them to reconsider the class changes at this point.... > IMO they should keep the level cap increase, new zones and content, but throw all the massive game play changes away.
In short, yes.
Longer answer, the class changes are currently shocking and can be hard to grasp in the sea of bugs and balancing problems that always plague the first public release of such a large patch. However as time goes on and the bugs get squashed and the balance gets sorted we will be able to get a better appreciation for the state of the classes in the game.
The changes are not as limiting as people are feeling right now, That doesn’t mean I don’t think there isn’t room for improvement in the classes, on the contrary, but I do think that once the bulk of the work on bugs and balance is done it will be easier to discuss those in class improvements as well. Those non-starter powers in various trees and classes that need to go because they break the design goals of the module are much easier to replace and test for broken interactions now than they have ever been in the past.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Haven't seen this mentioned, but forgive me if it was and I missed it:
On M16 currently: Superior Potion of Accuracy -> gives Crit Strike Superior Tidespan Potion -> gives Accuracy Could we move Accuracy stat to the Potion of Accuracy, and then rename Tidespan potions to something like Potion of Precision or Cruelty (to play off the old green armor name when they had Crit)?
Warlock: Don't want to let you down but I am hell bound. - Imagine Dragons Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
3
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Haven't seen this mentioned, but forgive me if it was and I missed it:
On M16 currently: Superior Potion of Accuracy -> gives Crit Strike Superior Tidespan Potion -> gives Accuracy Could we move Accuracy stat to the Potion of Accuracy, and then rename Tidespan potions to something like Potion of Precision or Cruelty (to play off the old green armor name when they had Crit)?
I mentioned that a while back on the stats thread. DEFINITELY need to change the names of the potions.
Love the rework idea for healer classes. I have a 17k Dc, 14k OP devo and 14k templock in live. Right now i wish each healer class will have unique healing plus additional effect and not make all 3 the same.. Currently the idea behind healer OP giving heal with shield really interesting and implementing something like this for devout DC and soulweaver SW really appreciate.
After watching the stream, standardizing everyone abilities score in character creation is just not right. Using new player unfamiliarity to the game as an excuses is even worse. In DDO, new player are given a free Lesser Heart of Wood ( https://ddowiki.com/page/Lesser_Reincarnation ) as a second chance if they made a noob mistake to their build. I see no reason why Neverwinter cant retain the ability score rolling feature while giving new player a free full respec.
What I liked about Neverwinter, before Mod 16, was the ability to customize the character to the extent that the game allowed me to customize the character. I feel like Mod 16 is taking away the ability to customize the build and gear of a character given how limited the choices are for gear and feats. From what I see most classes get the same or nearly the same gear from a vendor. There are only a small handful of feats to choose from. Most of the customization and uniqueness of each character has completely been eliminated. Characters become nearly cookie-cutter identical copies of each other due to the lack of choice in character design.
After playing the new mod 16 and reaching level 80. I feel I can give feedback on this new mod. First off great job on the areas and maps. They really are nice. I really dislike how the boons and specs are setup for many reasons but 1 stands out above the rest. There is no different feel to what spec I run as they all act like the rest. Looking at the boon's I can say that most people will pick the same boons as everyone else. Looking at the spec feats and powers safe to assume the same. There is no real different feeling like there is on live. The campaign it self was a bit disappointing due to me having to remember what quest needed to be done to do a tast in the campaign window. I rather get a quest saying complete such and such tast so that I dont get lost. Near the end I actually ended up going to enclave for weekly campaigne quest because I forgot to do the tast to get the new quest to continue. This made me have to go back just to get the quest which really should be fixed. I play a warlock and using the new so called soul weaver spec made my toon do stupid things. Example my toon facing backwards but moving forwards or running side ways going forward. I get it preview is preview and what not but ya that annoyed me alot. Personally I will say good job on a few things but over all I must really state my true opinion and that is. I really personally do not enjoy nor like this mod. Having limits to what I can do spec wise is really putting me off on this mod alot. Dont really mind the removal of stats or changing stats but what I can see is that each warlock using around about the same rotation same feats and same powers as the next warlock and thats a bit disappointing to me to be honest. Just cant get behind this mod. Been trying to enjoy it in preview shard but just cant enjoy it.
1
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
> @kangkeok said: > After watching the stream, standardizing everyone abilities score in character creation is just not right. Using new player unfamiliarity to the game as an excuses is even worse.
It's called a gradual operation disinvestment plan.
When a company anticipates diminishing returns from an asset or revenue source, instead of selling it off or killing it outright, they gradually streamline it to continue earning on a smaller and smaller scale for as long as possible.
First, they trim the fat: Get rid of cost-centers. Non-money-making, non-essential products, services or features. Remember the Gateway? Foundry? Those were cost centers. Gone.
Phase 2 is scaling down the complexity or quality of your product to lesson production cost. eg. A no-roll prefab character class system with only 2 options for each class.
Takes far less FTEs to run. We are in phase 2 now.
This will get censored if I explain phase 3 which should happen in the next 1-2 years I'm guessing.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Companions in collections, auctions, Zen store and elsewhere should show whether their bonus type will count as offense, defense, or utility, before purchasing them.
2
minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
> After watching the stream, standardizing everyone abilities score in character creation is just not right. Using new player unfamiliarity to the game as an excuses is even worse.
It's called a gradual operation disinvestment plan.
When a company anticipates diminishing returns from an asset or revenue source, instead of selling it off or killing it outright, they gradually streamline it to continue earning on a smaller and smaller scale for as long as possible.
First, they trim the fat: Get rid of cost-centers. Non-money-making, non-essential products, services or features.
Remember the Gateway? Foundry? Those were cost centers. Gone.
Phase 2 is scaling down the complexity or quality of your product to lesson production cost. eg. A no-roll prefab character class system with only 2 options for each class.
Takes far less FTEs to run. We are in phase 2 now.
This will get censored if I explain phase 3 which should happen in the next 1-2 years I'm guessing.
This is what I see, it looks like a massive staff reduction so it needs simplifying. What are the expensive things to do ? new classes ? yeah we stopped getting those a while ago, I still have a load of unused character slots bought assuming they'd carry on and we'd get the classes I REALLY wanted to play like druid. Basically everything I enjoy about NW is being stripped out with this update.
Mastercrafting gets a massive knock, nobody will ever trust that anything made will be usable for more than one mod. And that's not worth 12M or whatever a set of +1s costs.
The combat that was fast and fluid is now slow and REALLY dull. It's taking me several times longer to kill stuff solo.
There is no build individuality, the best TR and SW I know now do not have cookie cutter builds atm, they will have after.
I can be forced to choose between two 100% useless feats because I don't use either of the powers they relate to when before I could pick both of a previous tier.
There is not room for some powers you want. The encounters recharge so slowly that you need the extra attacks rather than utilities in some cases which were not a problem pre mod 16.
Basically I've tried my DPS GF, GWF and CW and can't face playing them ever again post M16 because they're such pale imitations of what they were before and just totally boring to play. I think the slowing down of encounters and reduction in AoE are the main causes. I feel like I've gone from 15+K to 12 in terms of capability in M15 terms on all the characters I've tried.
(...) if you were running a "unique" build before M16 it was definitely suboptimal, possibly even trash, anyway. M16 makes it at least a little bit more difficult to pick trap talents,(...)
Ok, I get your point but i think you'r missing the point. As you said M16 limits picking wrong talents (by reducing possibility), that mean that M15 talents are not equal and that's the problem not its number. Now it feels like "here take my character and play", sorry but that's how i feel about it.
A masaive amount of feedback is concerned with the lack of build option and i see NO responce whatsoever to tha subject.
Is there any talk among you to remedy this part or is everything set in stone already(usually is at this time when it hit preview).
I see some feedback on tweeks, like aggro, a bit more damage with at wills but absolutly no answer to ANYTHING concerning this MAJOR outcry about limiting people into certain builds(with a comment about not wanting bad builds ??? isent that part of the game not to hand out premade characters...)
There has been several good suggestions about how to make character creation more varied but you stay silent on the matter can you please at least comment this.
Well, long time lurker here - I can't disagree more with that post demonmonger. I am a rogue main, in most of games. No difference here.
You can in fact still stay in stealth for pretty long and with the right build you won't ever get hit by a crit and combat advantage will do very little. Rogues are in fact very powerful with their abilities now that encounter powers for every class have longer recharge times. Without a critical strike, in Icewind Pass, I did over 300k damage on a single monster with Hateful Knives while being scaled down.
My mod 16 Whisperknife test build has a very high survivability - not to mention mobility. If you want your encounters to recharge quicker, use Sneak Attack. Staying in stealth? One With the Shadows, Shadow Strike.
Changes to the game are coming. I've built my rogue under recovery as well but that will be gone soon and you have to get over it. Removal of foundry isn't something devs wanted either - it's sad but it's necessary to keep up with everything else.
------------
Leaving that behind, I have further questions;
1. Will the content be updated? It's very outdated now and it's nearly impossible to queue up in Gauntigrym Battlegrounds without premade group to just farm the campaign.
2. Are the PvP potions being remade? Currently Superior Potions of Battle don't work at all, so I suppose that's a bug.
3. With removal of Eldritch runestones, what will be the purpose of keeping Augment pets on?
Thanks for the bug reports about the potion, I'll make sure those get fixed. In regards to Gauntlgrym, we're not happy with the state of Gauntlgrym either. Obviously for PvE, we have the random queues to prevent queued content from becoming completely obsolete, but that's not the case with PvP.
There are no plans for Gauntlgrym on the immediate horizon, but we'd like to do something with it in the future.
Also—glad to hear you're enjoying the reworked rogue!
Nowdays we all have the same build, crit 100% and power creep. With undermountain we will have a choice: crit build or CA build. Sure we all will miss the extreme buff but I think it will give us the opportunity to show more gameplay skills. A lot of people cry about the new companion system but just think about it, its super nice now we are not limited in slots and we can be very situational. I mean we can tweak the player power regarding where and what we fighting ( a set of companions for pve, a set for boss fight, a set for party, etc.).
Once main issues fixed, I really believe undermountain will be fun.
Comments
But yeah: there's just no reason at all for the ability score rule changes, and the team should revert back to mod 15's style of ability scores.
My HR's companion is the one doing the real killing. All I am is bait.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I have no idea in which sction to write it, but maybe it would be possible to improve to a higher level the enchantment to armor such as Loamweave and change/improve it mechanic, because no one benefits from rooting
IMO they should keep the level cap increase, new zones and content, but throw all the massive game play changes away.
The environments in Mod16 are gorgeous.
The terrain, background details, subtle lighting effects... stunning.
I particularly like the Tavern. Feels grounded and fun to run around with it's circular design.
And a bartender who walks away from you and you have to grab his attention. Got a laugh out of that.
Please extend congrats to the artists for their work.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
i guess there are even RP builds
the artwork is nice. it reminds me of the fantasy artwork and depictions in fantasy books and d and d choose your own adventure stories in the 80's. it's very nostalgic and feel good
> Just wondering if it's too late for them to reconsider the class changes at this point....
> IMO they should keep the level cap increase, new zones and content, but throw all the massive game play changes away.
In short, yes.
Longer answer, the class changes are currently shocking and can be hard to grasp in the sea of bugs and balancing problems that always plague the first public release of such a large patch. However as time goes on and the bugs get squashed and the balance gets sorted we will be able to get a better appreciation for the state of the classes in the game.
The changes are not as limiting as people are feeling right now, That doesn’t mean I don’t think there isn’t room for improvement in the classes, on the contrary, but I do think that once the bulk of the work on bugs and balance is done it will be easier to discuss those in class improvements as well. Those non-starter powers in various trees and classes that need to go because they break the design goals of the module are much easier to replace and test for broken interactions now than they have ever been in the past.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
On M16 currently:
Superior Potion of Accuracy -> gives Crit Strike
Superior Tidespan Potion -> gives Accuracy
Could we move Accuracy stat to the Potion of Accuracy, and then rename Tidespan potions to something like Potion of Precision or Cruelty (to play off the old green armor name when they had Crit)?
Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown
Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown
Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
First off great job on the areas and maps. They really are nice.
I really dislike how the boons and specs are setup for many reasons but 1 stands out above the rest. There is no different feel to what spec I run as they all act like the rest.
Looking at the boon's I can say that most people will pick the same boons as everyone else. Looking at the spec feats and powers safe to assume the same.
There is no real different feeling like there is on live.
The campaign it self was a bit disappointing due to me having to remember what quest needed to be done to do a tast in the campaign window. I rather get a quest saying complete such and such tast so that I dont get lost. Near the end I actually ended up going to enclave for weekly campaigne quest because I forgot to do the tast to get the new quest to continue. This made me have to go back just to get the quest which really should be fixed.
I play a warlock and using the new so called soul weaver spec made my toon do stupid things. Example my toon facing backwards but moving forwards or running side ways going forward.
I get it preview is preview and what not but ya that annoyed me alot.
Personally I will say good job on a few things but over all I must really state my true opinion and that is. I really personally do not enjoy nor like this mod.
Having limits to what I can do spec wise is really putting me off on this mod alot. Dont really mind the removal of stats or changing stats but what I can see is that each warlock using around about the same rotation same feats and same powers as the next warlock and thats a bit disappointing to me to be honest.
Just cant get behind this mod. Been trying to enjoy it in preview shard but just cant enjoy it.
> After watching the stream, standardizing everyone abilities score in character creation is just not right. Using new player unfamiliarity to the game as an excuses is even worse.
It's called a gradual operation disinvestment plan.
When a company anticipates diminishing returns from an asset or revenue source, instead of selling it off or killing it outright, they gradually streamline it to continue earning on a smaller and smaller scale for as long as possible.
First, they trim the fat: Get rid of cost-centers. Non-money-making, non-essential products, services or features.
Remember the Gateway? Foundry? Those were cost centers. Gone.
Phase 2 is scaling down the complexity or quality of your product to lesson production cost. eg. A no-roll prefab character class system with only 2 options for each class.
Takes far less FTEs to run. We are in phase 2 now.
This will get censored if I explain phase 3 which should happen in the next 1-2 years I'm guessing.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Basically everything I enjoy about NW is being stripped out with this update.
Mastercrafting gets a massive knock, nobody will ever trust that anything made will be usable for more than one mod. And that's not worth 12M or whatever a set of +1s costs.
The combat that was fast and fluid is now slow and REALLY dull. It's taking me several times longer to kill stuff solo.
There is no build individuality, the best TR and SW I know now do not have cookie cutter builds atm, they will have after.
I can be forced to choose between two 100% useless feats because I don't use either of the powers they relate to when before I could pick both of a previous tier.
There is not room for some powers you want. The encounters recharge so slowly that you need the extra attacks rather than utilities in some cases which were not a problem pre mod 16.
Basically I've tried my DPS GF, GWF and CW and can't face playing them ever again post M16 because they're such pale imitations of what they were before and just totally boring to play. I think the slowing down of encounters and reduction in AoE are the main causes. I feel like I've gone from 15+K to 12 in terms of capability in M15 terms on all the characters I've tried.
A masaive amount of feedback is concerned with the lack of build option and i see NO responce whatsoever to tha subject.
Is there any talk among you to remedy this part or is everything set in stone already(usually is at this time when it hit preview).
I see some feedback on tweeks, like aggro, a bit more damage with at wills but absolutly no answer to ANYTHING concerning this MAJOR outcry about limiting people into certain builds(with a comment about not wanting bad builds ??? isent that part of the game not to hand out premade characters...)
There has been several good suggestions about how to make character creation more varied but you stay silent on the matter can you please at least comment this.
Best
There are no plans for Gauntlgrym on the immediate horizon, but we'd like to do something with it in the future.
Also—glad to hear you're enjoying the reworked rogue!
With undermountain we will have a choice: crit build or CA build.
Sure we all will miss the extreme buff but I think it will give us the opportunity to show more gameplay skills.
A lot of people cry about the new companion system but just think about it, its super nice now we are not limited in slots and we can be very situational. I mean we can tweak the player power regarding where and what we fighting ( a set of companions for pve, a set for boss fight, a set for party, etc.).
Once main issues fixed, I really believe undermountain will be fun.