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Official M16: Stats and Mechanics

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  • foxxy#4211 foxxy Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 563 Arc User

    Just a general post for anyone wanting to know how these work:


    If you want to know what to stack, the order of importance (in short is:

    1. Armor Penetration until capped.
    2. Accuracy until capped.
    3. Power.
    4. You only want to invest in crit and combat advantage if you can stack a lot of either of them and in general you only want to stack 1 of them, the other should be at 0. If you do not have more then 106% crit severity, combat advantage should always be better.
    We need to cap at 24000 of each; armpen, acc, in order to nullify their defensive stats, right? being crit and CA the exception with, maybe over 40000 to boost our offensive with better outcomes ? do you know if they have other % values?
    some dev sid earlier that for level 80 content you would need those amount fo stats to get 100% eficiency.

    Combat Advantage = 69,000
    Defense = 64,000
    Deflect = 49,000
    Critical Strike = 46,500
    Armor Pen = 24,000
    Critical Resist = 26,500
    Awareness = 29,000
    Accuracy = 24,000
    TY
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    I was able to get to the following, without any armor reinforcements, high-grade insignias, top tier equipment, or legendary mount. Just sharing as a comparitive baseline for anyone testing, who has not reconfigured their equipment yet.

    Health = 230,568
    Power = 61,498

    Combat Advantage = 46,404
    Defense = 37,412
    Deflect = 27,320
    Critical Strike = 47,752

    Armor Pen = 31,143
    Critical Resist = 26,111
    Awareness = 22,416
    Accuracy = 27,600
  • tasukete#2528 tasukete Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Will every class be able to reach maximum cap on all stats? Wouldn't it be better if DPS classes would not be able to reach damage resistance cap
    and tanks could not maximize their damage?
    I'm saying this, because I saw a tank that had maximized stats while using augment companion which for me is not quite right.

    Additionally, I wonder about the value of stats. We already see big numbers so my question is: Are you planning of reducing them in the future?
    Also will we be able to see the percentage of the increases given by stats?
    Constitution increases HP according to base HP so 28 CON equals roughly to 5K HP. That's nothing compared to other stats
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Deflect is only half as potent as Defense


    I thought a long time and simulated lots of possibilities and came up with a simplest solution:


    new Deflection Mechanic: Incoming damage is reduced by 50%. A targeting attacker is stunned for 1 second.

    o This puts Deflection on par with other stats
    o Deflection becomes uniquely different from Defense
    o Accuracy, Control, and Control Resist become slightly up-valued
    o Solo players gain a method to gain CombatAdvantage (automatic CA versus Stunned targets)
    o New tactical synergies emerge



  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    edited March 2019



    stronghold boons give ( example power boon) 9143 stat rating instead 8000 stat rating for a level 80 character.



    FOR LEVEL 70 it is correctly 8000 stat rating.

  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User


    the character has only 1 legendary companion 3000 stat for each rating. if we add bolster and the hidden upgrade bonuses then is correct.
    SO is intended for a character to build all the stats?
  • vordaynvordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    Will every class be able to reach maximum cap on all stats? Wouldn't it be better if DPS classes would not be able to reach damage resistance cap and tanks could not maximize their damage?
    I'm saying this, because I saw a tank that had maximized stats while using augment companion which for me is not quite right.

    Yes, selecting which stats you would 'specialise in' would make sense, especially for a DPS vs Tank vs Healer char, otherwise classes would have a lesser need to rely on others in group content.

    Additionally, I wonder about the value of stats. We already see big numbers so my question is: Are you planning of reducing them in the future?

    There's definitely an inflation of stats. They could divide every stat by 10 and it would still make sense.

    Also will we be able to see the percentage of the increases given by stats?

    They need to bring this back. Working out the opposing rolls of each instance, then the amount your stats are above this, and then dividing by 500 to get the percentage chance is cumbersome.

    Rather, it should be noted on the character sheet the effective percentage chance which changes according to the area you are in.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • lordtweety#3604 lordtweety Member Posts: 275 Arc User

    Those numbers are incorrect for LoMM, for that you need 32000+whatever amount required to reach the cap. So as follows:

    • Combat Advantage - 77000
    • Defense - 72000
    • Deflect - 57000
    • Critical Strike - 54500
    • Armor Penetration - 32000
    • Critical Resistance - 34500
    • Awareness - 37000
    • Accuracy - 32000
    Thanks, I hadn't seen this but was expecting an increase for the final dungeon/zone.
    Main: Angels Scar
    Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
  • soythesauce#5192 soythesauce Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    I still cant find myself happy with the Attribute´s beeing fixed.

    I might be a bit bias as a Cleric main.
    but it would feel more logical if CON would have CC ressit and WIS Ap gain.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited March 2019


    The stat naming is not consistent.

    This is from the blog:


    This is from the char sheet:






    Critical Avoidance or Critical Resist?
    Action Point Gain or AP or Action Points?
    Combat Advantage or Combat Advantage Bonus?
    Control Resistance or Control Resist?
    Movement or Movement Speed?
    Glory Gain, Gold Gain, XP gain vs ... Bonus


    But that's not the issue, that's only vs the blog. The items are not consistent:




    Some are critical Resist, some resistance, and some Avoidance...


    Also there is "Outgoing Healing"




    What is it now? Still multiplicative buff? Or hidden additive stat?
    I assume it is still a multiplicative buff, same as the "Outgoing Damage"

  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    I think one of the most frustrating things with this module has to do with scaling.

    If I'm level 80 and my stats are 48000 or more when I go to a level 70 area my stats shouldn't fall below 28000. In essence my relative effectiveness shouldn't be reduced because I'm in a zone with lower actual stats.

    It feels bad to have more trouble killing stuff that is 10 levels lower than mine that killing stuff that is my level.

    Yes part of the reward for having better gear is being able to do harder content, but I shouldn't feel worse doing easier content than I do in harder content because of scaling. Which still happens. It shouldn't be harder to complete the Expedition to Terminus than it is to do the content in Terminus because you are scaled on the Expedition but not in Terminus. (With just gear drops.)
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    @noworries#8859 can you explain why the resistance against allowing people to customize their ability scores? Because at the moment, choosing not to play dragonborn is a bigger penalty than getting all your attribute choices wrong and I guarantee you, people will choose not to play dragonborn because it is ugly (myself included). I see no real harm in allowing it, especially because of how low of a bonus they provide.

    I still think they could be done differently to live, but not in the way they are currently done. Give players a fixed amount to allocate and set the base value of all stats to 10, with the maximum they can get from allocation 18 (20 with the racial bonus).

    It would be great to get some feedback on this. Unlike many of the other changes that are being made, I have not seen a single player support the changes to the primary stats. What is currently on Preview (fixed stat arrays with (sometimes) wildly inappropriate bonuses) seem to be universally disliked, even despised.

    Hoping for improvements...
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    @noworries#8859 can you explain why the resistance against allowing people to customize their ability scores? Because at the moment, choosing not to play dragonborn is a bigger penalty than getting all your attribute choices wrong and I guarantee you, people will choose not to play dragonborn because it is ugly (myself included). I see no real harm in allowing it, especially because of how low of a bonus they provide.

    I still think they could be done differently to live, but not in the way they are currently done. Give players a fixed amount to allocate and set the base value of all stats to 10, with the maximum they can get from allocation 18 (20 with the racial bonus).

    It would be great to get some feedback on this. Unlike many of the other changes that are being made, I have not seen a single player support the changes to the primary stats. What is currently on Preview (fixed stat arrays with (sometimes) wildly inappropriate bonuses) seem to be universally disliked, even despised.

    Truth. The most positive I've seen has been simple resignation to the idea, not actual support of it.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    It's hard to maintain outrage over fixed stats and loss of class specific bonuses, when the effect of stats was reduced to the point of irrelevance. A class that starts with an 8 instead of an 18 loses a whopping 2% buff. At this point, stats and race (apart from DB and Tiefling) are mostly just cosmetic.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    pitshade said:

    It's hard to maintain outrage over fixed stats and loss of class specific bonuses, when the effect of stats was reduced to the point of irrelevance. A class that starts with an 8 instead of an 18 loses a whopping 2% buff. At this point, stats and race (apart from DB and Tiefling) are mostly just cosmetic.

    Maybe, but to me that's another example of how this should not have been done. I mean, in D&D the primary stats are significant. Increasing a stat by +2 is a big deal - it may gives you a +1 bonus on dice rolls, additional bonus spells and so on.

    Here....a 0.25% bonus is .... meh...pretty much irrelevant, and that by itself is a source of irritation. I would have gone the exact opposite route and made the primary stats have more effect, not less, but, well....I guess this is a way to get rid of different builds and make sure that characters are fully interchangable.

    Hoping for improvements...
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    I don't care for any of it, but I don't see them reversing the stat nerf. Unless that fight is somehow run, the rest of isn't worth fighting for IMO.

    It's is good that the studio wants to remove trap choices but as is usual, the go too far. Not only do they remove the traps, they make every choice nearly meaningless. Trap choices hurt the players that take them. Lack of choice hurts everyone. There is a vast middle ground between the two, but instead we just get a polar shift.

    Perhaps I am being fatalistic, but there doesn't seem to be any chance of winning the fight that matters here, so better to turn one's attention to other theaters.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    pitshade said:

    .... so better to turn one's attention to other theaters.

    ...which, for some people, might mean switching games. There are some really good changes in Mod 16, and some changes that are, well, debatable, but might be necessary for the long-term health of the game. Then there are the changes that just take away some of the fun, while not being necessary or have any positive effects. Too many of those changes, and, well...player numbers will drop significantly.

    After all - this is a game - it is supposed to be fun, but if it isn't...
    Hoping for improvements...
  • ron#1747 ron Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    > @theycallmetomu said:
    > Is there anyone that thinks the ability score changes were a good thing?
    >
    > Why did anyone think the ability score changes were a good thing? It's un D&D like, it doesn't improve gameplay in the slightest, it's one more thing that breaks ... just seems like a huge unforced error.

    I do. I generally hate this module, but the ability score changes are among the only things I like. Because every class now has an ability score that increases damage, a score that increases healing, etc. it's just Great. I remember being ubset because I didn't have ways to Improve my damage throught ability scores, althrought I had a dps build. Now i will. But the class balance is THE WORST, gotta agree on that
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    ron#1747 said:

    > @theycallmetomu said:

    > Is there anyone that thinks the ability score changes were a good thing?

    >

    > Why did anyone think the ability score changes were a good thing? It's un D&D like, it doesn't improve gameplay in the slightest, it's one more thing that breaks ... just seems like a huge unforced error.



    I do. I generally hate this module, but the ability score changes are among the only things I like. Because every class now has an ability score that increases damage, a score that increases healing, etc. it's just Great. I remember being ubset because I didn't have ways to Improve my damage throught ability scores, althrought I had a dps build. Now i will. But the class balance is THE WORST, gotta agree on that

    I admittedly didn't play a paladin very far, but it seems like the simplest way to do that was using CON with your first aura that tacks on radiant damage based on your HP, and by boosting Wisdom or, with the feat, Charisma, for more crit.

    Not saying that paradigm didn't need looking at- some attributes did too much for some classes, and some did really counterintuitive things, but this feels like a baby/bathwater situation.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    Aside from the problems I‘ve been experiencing with Scaling, the other big frustration I have is not knowing what stats matter for my class.

    Are my Paladin’s attacks Physical (Str) or Magical (Int) or a mix of the two?

    Aside from being Important at the start, this is critical information as you level as well, because of the stat boosts being one of the areas we at least have some choice, lack of information about core class functions makes it easy to get these things wrong, especially for classes like Paladin where the nature of their attacks is confusing.

    I really wish you just stuck with the 4E model for stats and damage, though no class should use Con for damage in this game for balance reasons.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    ron#1747 said:

    I do. I generally hate this module, but the ability score changes are among the only things I like. Because every class now has an ability score that increases damage, a score that increases healing, etc. it's just Great. I remember being ubset because I didn't have ways to Improve my damage throught ability scores, althrought I had a dps build. Now i will. But the class balance is THE WORST, gotta agree on that

    At the risk of stating the obvious...

    You do understand that if you were allowed to choose your own stat distribution, you'd be able to choose the exact same allocation as is now forced on us all, right? No one would stop you from having scores that increase damage, healing etc that are identical to the set you have currently on Preview.

    But, quite importantly, if you played a character with two distinct Paragon paths and roles, you'd be able to choose stat distribution that would suit EACH path.

    And, possibly more importantly, if you don't just base your decisions on stat bonuses you can choose to have characters that fit the D&D model more accurately. (e.g. Paladins with a proper Charisma score...)
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User

    ron#1747 said:

    I do. I generally hate this module, but the ability score changes are among the only things I like. Because every class now has an ability score that increases damage, a score that increases healing, etc. it's just Great. I remember being ubset because I didn't have ways to Improve my damage throught ability scores, althrought I had a dps build. Now i will. But the class balance is THE WORST, gotta agree on that

    At the risk of stating the obvious...

    You do understand that if you were allowed to choose your own stat distribution, you'd be able to choose the exact same allocation as is now forced on us all, right? No one would stop you from having scores that increase damage, healing etc that are identical to the set you have currently on Preview.

    But, quite importantly, if you played a character with two distinct Paragon paths and roles, you'd be able to choose stat distribution that would suit EACH path.

    And, possibly more importantly, if you don't just base your decisions on stat bonuses you can choose to have characters that fit the D&D model more accurately. (e.g. Paladins with a proper Charisma score...)
    Wait, on live not every class has a +% damage ability score?
  • thestiathestia Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 296 Arc User

    Wait, on live not every class has a +% damage ability score?

    Oathbound Paladins don't.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    thestia said:

    Wait, on live not every class has a +% damage ability score?

    Oathbound Paladins don't.
    Well that sounds like it was a problem unique to Oathbound Paladins!

    Speaking of ability scores, they should double or quadruple the +% bonus per point, but reduce how frequently characters increase in ability scores.
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User

    thestia said:

    Wait, on live not every class has a +% damage ability score?

    Oathbound Paladins don't.
    Well that sounds like it was a problem unique to Oathbound Paladins!

    Speaking of ability scores, they should double or quadruple the +% bonus per point, but reduce how frequently characters increase in ability scores.
    If they're serious about the changeover to 5e, they certainly could.

    Bounded accuracy to a cap of 20 (except barbarians, but shhh), but with each point being significant (except odd-numbered points but shhhhh) is pretty in-keeping with 5e.

    Not sure how well that maps to an 80-level progression, though, especially with the other main form of incremental progression (power points) gone. I don't really think I'll miss power points, mind you; the devs were correct that in practice, it basically amounted to "save up four points before using a power."
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User

    thestia said:

    Wait, on live not every class has a +% damage ability score?

    Oathbound Paladins don't.
    Well that sounds like it was a problem unique to Oathbound Paladins!

    Speaking of ability scores, they should double or quadruple the +% bonus per point, but reduce how frequently characters increase in ability scores.
    If they're serious about the changeover to 5e, they certainly could.

    Bounded accuracy to a cap of 20 (except barbarians, but shhh), but with each point being significant (except odd-numbered points but shhhhh) is pretty in-keeping with 5e.

    Not sure how well that maps to an 80-level progression, though, especially with the other main form of incremental progression (power points) gone. I don't really think I'll miss power points, mind you; the devs were correct that in practice, it basically amounted to "save up four points before using a power."
    There's no need for each level up to be material.

    Honestly, they should change the +HP mechanic to +% base HP, and have your level be the main determinate of HP.

    From there, they can reduce +Ability scores to once every 20 levels or so. Max your ability score at 20 for level ups. Boons let you go up to 30 (just like Epic Boons from the 5E DMG). Boom boom boom, problem solved.
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User

    thestia said:

    Wait, on live not every class has a +% damage ability score?

    Oathbound Paladins don't.
    Well that sounds like it was a problem unique to Oathbound Paladins!

    Speaking of ability scores, they should double or quadruple the +% bonus per point, but reduce how frequently characters increase in ability scores.
    If they're serious about the changeover to 5e, they certainly could.

    Bounded accuracy to a cap of 20 (except barbarians, but shhh), but with each point being significant (except odd-numbered points but shhhhh) is pretty in-keeping with 5e.

    Not sure how well that maps to an 80-level progression, though, especially with the other main form of incremental progression (power points) gone. I don't really think I'll miss power points, mind you; the devs were correct that in practice, it basically amounted to "save up four points before using a power."
    There's no need for each level up to be material.

    Honestly, they should change the +HP mechanic to +% base HP, and have your level be the main determinate of HP.

    From there, they can reduce +Ability scores to once every 20 levels or so. Max your ability score at 20 for level ups. Boons let you go up to 30 (just like Epic Boons from the 5E DMG). Boom boom boom, problem solved.
    Cryptic-launched games have a problem with, well, Cryptic mechanics. If they changed that to +%HP, we'd have to go through a whole nother round of testing to figure out where in the equation that plugged in. Not a reason not to do it, categorically, just... a wish that the game did a better job of explaining to use how it worked so we could readily make informed choices.

  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User

    thestia said:

    Wait, on live not every class has a +% damage ability score?

    Oathbound Paladins don't.
    Well that sounds like it was a problem unique to Oathbound Paladins!

    Speaking of ability scores, they should double or quadruple the +% bonus per point, but reduce how frequently characters increase in ability scores.
    If they're serious about the changeover to 5e, they certainly could.

    Bounded accuracy to a cap of 20 (except barbarians, but shhh), but with each point being significant (except odd-numbered points but shhhhh) is pretty in-keeping with 5e.

    Not sure how well that maps to an 80-level progression, though, especially with the other main form of incremental progression (power points) gone. I don't really think I'll miss power points, mind you; the devs were correct that in practice, it basically amounted to "save up four points before using a power."
    There's no need for each level up to be material.

    Honestly, they should change the +HP mechanic to +% base HP, and have your level be the main determinate of HP.

    From there, they can reduce +Ability scores to once every 20 levels or so. Max your ability score at 20 for level ups. Boons let you go up to 30 (just like Epic Boons from the 5E DMG). Boom boom boom, problem solved.
    Cryptic-launched games have a problem with, well, Cryptic mechanics. If they changed that to +%HP, we'd have to go through a whole nother round of testing to figure out where in the equation that plugged in. Not a reason not to do it, categorically, just... a wish that the game did a better job of explaining to use how it worked so we could readily make informed choices.

    Pfft, less information is better. They should get rid of explicit stats entirely, and just change everything to "Good. Great. Amazing. FANTASTIC!"
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