Official M16: Refinement

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Comments

  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    I’m sure this has been asked before, but why are Runestones not getting the same treatment as Enchants?

    I have more Bonding Stones than I need for my toons already.

    So those Runestones that are dropping out of Companion packs that are about to be rendered useless (Training and Empowering ?) are still going to be useless if they can only be swapped for Bonding stones.

    Sure keep Bondings as an option, but please let us pick the other options as well.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • adinosii
    adinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited April 2019


    Sure keep Bondings as an option, but please let us pick the other options as well.

    Would anyone ever use the other options? I mean, everyone needs 3 high-rank bonding runestones. They give a massive boost and they have a real value. The other runestones (Arcane, Empowered, Profane and ... eh... whatever) give a minuscule amount of points, compared to what the companion gear itself gives, so they just don't have anywhere near the same value.

    I would have thought that companion packs would be updated not to drop Eldritch stones any more - meaning that it's only a matter of exchanging some Eldritch stones people currently have, and exchanging for bonding stones just seems more logical....am I missing something?

    Either exchange your Eldritch stones for Bonding stones if you need those, or sell your (unbound) Eldritch stones on the AH for people who need Bonding stones.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mdarkangel#4696
    mdarkangel#4696 Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    > @obsidiancran3 said:
    > So those Runestones that are dropping out of Companion packs that are about to be rendered useless (Training and Empowering ?) are still going to be useless if they can only be swapped for Bonding stones.

    Training becomes Recondite, Empowered remains the same. Only Eldritch can be exchanged for Bonding. If you need more runestones for your companion equipment they expect you to exchange the enchantments you were previously running on your companion for runestones.
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    adinosii said:


    Sure keep Bondings as an option, but please let us pick the other options as well.

    Would anyone ever use the other options? I mean, everyone needs 3 high-rank bonding runestones. They give a massive boost and they have a real value. The other runestones (Arcane, Empowered, Profane and ... eh... whatever) give a minuscule amount of points, compared to what the companion gear itself gives, so they just don't have anywhere near the same value.

    I would have thought that companion packs would be updated not to drop Eldritch stones any more - meaning that it's only a matter of exchanging some Eldritch stones people currently have, and exchanging for bonding stones just seems more logical....am I missing something?

    Either exchange your Eldritch stones for Bonding stones if you need those, or sell your (unbound) Eldritch stones on the AH for people who need Bonding stones.
    I have a surplus of Rank 7-9 Bondings, and the Companion packs I’m opening on Live at the moment have Rank 7-9 Eldritch (and Training I think) in them, as I’m certainly not buying them from anywhere.

    I fail to see why any and all Runstones cannot be swapped just like Enchantments for our choice of Runestone. It’s just more annoying that Eldritch only can be swapped and only for Bonding.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • adinosii
    adinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User


    I fail to see why any and all Runstones cannot be swapped just like Enchantments for our choice of Runestone. It’s just more
    annoying that Eldritch only can be swapped and only for Bonding.

    Eldritch can be swapped because they are going to be removed. If you have a surplus ob bonding runestones, sell those now, and then exchange your eldritch stones for bondings after mod 16 hits ... or sell the Eldritch stones at that time, as someone might want to buy them to exchange for bonding stones. I don't really see this as an issue.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    adinosii said:


    I fail to see why any and all Runstones cannot be swapped just like Enchantments for our choice of Runestone. It’s just more
    annoying that Eldritch only can be swapped and only for Bonding.

    Eldritch can be swapped because they are going to be removed. If you have a surplus ob bonding runestones, sell those now, and then exchange your eldritch stones for bondings after mod 16 hits ... or sell the Eldritch stones at that time, as someone might want to buy them to exchange for bonding stones. I don't really see this as an issue.
    Great I'm in tune and know what's going on, I can do something, now how about we consider the vast majority of the player base who are not?

    For some reason you can swap Enchants and choose the right ones for the new stat distribution, but you can get HAMSTERED for your Runestones.. makes perfect sense.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • mdarkangel#4696
    mdarkangel#4696 Member Posts: 442 Arc User

    For some reason you can swap Enchants and choose the right ones for the new stat distribution, but you can get HAMSTERED for your Runestones.. makes perfect sense.

    You can exchange enchantments for runestone boxes, that is what they are expecting you to do with the enchantments that are currently on your companions.
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Which doesn't help you if you have Runestones that you need to swap because of the changes now does it?

    HAMSTER IT.

    I just don't understand why any of you have a problem with the idea of Runestone exchange working the same as Enchant exchange. Why is that idea so problematic for you?

    Seriously. That's the suggestion. Make the 2 systems work the same. Why is that a HAMSTER problem for you?
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • vendood
    vendood Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    TBH if they are changing most of the stats, the gear, the enchantments/runestones we can put on them, the way they work, the stats we will need in new and old content... it seems the height of silliness to not allow people to swap runestones they have for others. Particularly if they continue with the swap=BtA method of destroying tradeable value.

    If you are yanking the game people paid for out from under them, and replacing it with essentially a different game, the least you can do is give them an opportunity to adapt what they have to the new system.
  • douglasopferbeck
    douglasopferbeck Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    I would wager they don’t see it as a problem, because seriously, what endgame toon is utilizing runestones currently?! Maybe an hp build pally? I can’t think of any other scenario that someone would purposefully eschew bondings, which goes to show the disparity that is finally being acknowledged with making bondings built into the companion system itself.
    Post edited by douglasopferbeck on
  • adinosii
    adinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    I would wager they don’t see it as a problem, because seriously, what endgame toon is going to be utilizing runestones?!

    Uh...everyone?

    You need 3 bonding runestones, of course, and then 3-6 "regular" runestones for your companion gear. They are not as important, though, and upgrading them seems hardly cost-effective (going from R14 to R15 takes you from 580 to 660 points), but every little bit helps, so yeah...everyone will use them.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • douglasopferbeck
    douglasopferbeck Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    > @adinosii said:
    > I would wager they don’t see it as a problem, because seriously, what endgame toon is going to be utilizing runestones?!
    >
    > Uh...everyone?
    >
    > You need 3 bonding runestones, of course, and then 3-6 "regular" runestones for your companion gear. They are not as important, though, and upgrading them seems hardly cost-effective (going from R14 to R15 takes you from 580 to 660 points), but every little bit helps, so yeah...everyone will use them.

    Sorry, I was specifying using runestones in the current mod where they would want to exchange them in mod 16...
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    Their changes aren’t just about end game toons and high end players.

    Allowing those people with Runestones to swap them freely, like we can with Enchants caters for all players.

    Allowing Enchants to be swapped for Runestones caters for the people who don’t have Runestones (other than Bonding), so why not cater for everyone?
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • mightyeriksson
    mightyeriksson Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    Please consider easing the restrictions on refining Insignias to legendary.

    Preferably change it to just be "type" instead of "exact type" so that you just have to match Barbed, Enlightened and so on.

    It is very difficult to even find enough of the uncommon insignias, and demanding an exact match along with 10 of the uncommon insignias is too much.

    Also, the stat change from 500:1% to 1000:1% really was over the top, please consider changing that back, since it lowers the incentive to raise the the rank of enchants.

    Or raise the stat-values on the (2?) highest ranked enchants by 70-80%. (might be a better idea?)

    If you barely notice the difference between a rank 9 and a rank 14-15 enchant while playing, then a lot of players will just not bother using resources ranking up enchants.
  • autumnwitch
    autumnwitch Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User

    Please consider easing the restrictions on refining Insignias to legendary.



    Also, the stat change from 500:1% to 1000:1% really was over the top, please consider changing that back, since it lowers the incentive to raise the the rank of enchants.

    Or raise the stat-values on the (2?) highest ranked enchants by 70-80%. (might be a better idea?)

    If you barely notice the difference between a rank 9 and a rank 14-15 enchant while playing, then a lot of players will just not bother using resources ranking up enchants.

    I know it's like they are almost paranoid that someone might get more powerful. It reminds me of playing AD&D when I was younger when the DM literally tried to kill you at every battle and made it so hard to level up you just quit playing because any time you actually succeeded in doing something the DM took it personally and made the whole experience as an attack upon them.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • navras#4653
    navras#4653 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    wait, is exchanging enchantments option gone? I cant see any exchange option in the antiquities vendor after the latest patch?
  • skrewfaz3d#1482
    skrewfaz3d#1482 Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    > @navras#4653 said:
    > wait, is exchanging enchantments option gone? I cant see any exchange option in the antiquities vendor after the latest patch?

    Seems the only enchantment you can exchange is Tranquil now... Is this the plan?
  • kythelion#3210
    kythelion#3210 Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Well, Asterdahl had been saying for a couple weeks that the changes will continue for several weeks post release to get everything working and dialed in. So, I guess it's no surprise where we're at.
  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,452 Arc User
    Silence is due to being closer to the live date and still having a massive pile of work to do, that the forums take a backseat.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • kythelion#3210
    kythelion#3210 Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    At this point, annoying as it is, silence is good. It means they're trying to fix all the hamster HAMSTER stuff and squeeze it into the live release. Because even they know what will happen if THIS goes live as is.
  • agilesto
    agilesto Member Posts: 516 Arc User
    I mean, yes and no.
    Devs focused on fixing the remaining issues, that's good. But part of the role of a CoMa is to keep in touch the community. I get it that there's lots of work, meetings, and such. But we're only 1 patch away from the release, only 1. And there are HUGE issues like the totally broken scaling, being reported for several weeks, still not fixed, and that are going to be game-breaking if ever it goes live like that.

    The M16 is a new game, the community is very anxious, especially since the release is so close and there are so many issues. A simple statement from the CoMa, that says "the devs are aware of that problem, this, and that. Working hard on it, should be okay for release, or at least with a partial solution", even that would mean a lot. Currently, we don't have any idea if the broken scaling is even aknowledged by the devs (I guess it is, but eh, no communication).

    Like, you know, just a short statement to inform the community, would be greatly appreciated. Because right now, we're at 9 days of the release, and the scaling (as an example), is a major problem, and we have only 1 preview patch left for it to be fixed. And we have no info.
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,428 Arc User
    Will they really release it on 23rd?
    There were certain indications to imply 23rd is the date.
    They might plan to do so for their internal 'golden' date but can they really do it?
    They have not have an official announcement of the date as far as I know.
    They have not shown the counting down clock.
    There are only 4 to 5 business days before 23rd. The long weekend is coming up and I don't know if their company works on Good Friday.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • rickcase276
    rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,399 Arc User
    I think it was official announced as the release date in the vblog that Thomas Foss posted in Reddit and maybe on Twitter too.
  • kythelion#3210
    kythelion#3210 Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    The date is official. I don't think even a force of nature could change it at this point. And technically we've passed the point of live release version. What we see right now is likely what is getting released. But I'm hopeful the complete shut down of comms means they can squeeze in a few last minute major fixes. Doubtful, but I hope.
  • cabar1
    cabar1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 124 Arc User
    > @adinosii said:
    > Sure keep Bondings as an option, but please let us pick the other options as well.

    agreed

    >
    > Would anyone ever use the other options?

    yes

    > I mean, everyone needs 3 high-rank bonding runestones. They give a massive boost and they have a real value. The other runestones (Arcane, Empowered, Profane and ... eh... whatever) give a minuscule amount of points, compared to what the companion gear itself gives, so they just don't have anywhere near the same value.
    >

    but what good are bondings if you have 3 per toon? last i checked, they would not fit in companion gear! and, what do i do with the 15 pieces of gateway companion gear each toon has, when they can only use 3?

    get off your high horse with your repetitious posts about trading for bondings and then selling them. it isn't answering anyones question!
    99 lines of code on the wall, 99 lines of code, add one line, compile it again....... 113 lines on code on the wall
    113 lines of code on the wall, 113 lines of code, rewrite one line, compile it again.......
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  • cabar1
    cabar1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 124 Arc User
    > @agilesto said:

    > Devs focused on fixing the remaining issues

    maybe, but i don't think they did, just nerfs to everyone (welcome to the TR ranks folks)

    >Currently, we don't have any idea if the broken scaling is even aknowledged by the devs (I guess it is, but eh, no communication).

    their responses to the feedback has gotten to be non-existant, and i am being generous there


    >and we have only 1 preview patch left for it to be fixed. And we have no info.


    if there is another patch, which could be non-existant also....
    99 lines of code on the wall, 99 lines of code, add one line, compile it again....... 113 lines on code on the wall
    113 lines of code on the wall, 113 lines of code, rewrite one line, compile it again.......
    Wait For It
  • adinosii
    adinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    cabar1 said:


    but what good are bondings if you have 3 per toon? last i checked, they would not fit in companion gear! and, what do i do with the 15 pieces of gateway companion gear each toon has, when they can only use 3?

    Uh....what use are bondings? You need 3 per character - "No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out."

    This is actually an improvement from M15 - previously if you swapped companions when you switched loadouts, you might have wanted a full set of bondings for each companion, but now you just need 3. If you end up with a surplus, give them to an alt or sell.

    As for "15 pieces of gateway gear" ? I assume you are talking about the Loyal gear you got from the Gateway, right?

    Well, why on earth should anyone have 15 pieces of such gear? It makes no sense, Most people stick with just one summoned buffing companion, so they just need 3 pieces of gear. I know a few that switch to a summoned augment when going into a boss fight where the companions die easily (a living, unkillable augment being preferable to a dead buffing companion), so yea, they might have 6 pieces of gear, but those players are a small minority.

    More than that - 15 pieces? It makes no sense whatsoever. The smart thing would have been to sell the gear while it was still unbound and had some actual value, instead of putting it on a companion that does not use it (which binds the gear, by the way) - You could even have kept the gear unbound in the bank. Then you could have used the gear if you switched to a different companion with different slots, or sold the gear if you wanted some millions of AD. Loyal gear (in particular "Loyal Avenger" used to be quite valuable).
    cabar1 said:

    get off your high horse with your repetitious posts about trading for bondings and then selling them. it isn't answering anyones question!

    What I am saying is that if you have more than 3 Bonding runestones, give the extra ones to alts or sell them now. It might even make sense to sell all your bondings now, and buy equivalent Eldritch stones if they are cheaper. Then when Mod 16 arrives, you go to the exchange vendor and swap your Eldritch for Bonding stones. Yes, they will be bound, but what you have in effect done is to swap your original unbound Bondings for equivalent bound ones and a chunk of AD.

    I generally advice against the use of the exchange vendor due to the binding, but in the case of Bonding runestones, that is not an issue, as I see no reason why you would not want to continue to use them.

    Which part of this is too hard for you to understand?
    Hoping for improvements...