Regardless, you can run without an armour or weapon enchant, or non bis enchant. You cannot run without runestones. Someone's making a profit and I would guess it would be much higher than armour or weapon enchants which would quickly stabilize in comparrison to x total players x6 runestones which are required to even run content, plus assasins enchants, dps, op and DCs etc. running bis enchants live that will need to change out.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Since the new mod announcement and testing on preview, ppl started to buy the cheapest enchants on ah just to trade them for the "bis" for next mod when it comes to live.
I did notice that cheap armor enchants like Moderate Eclipse and Shadowclad almost disappeared from the AH at some point before the BtA change. They used to go for something like 20K, but one day, none could be found under 40K. I guess that someone bought them up in order to exchange for better enchants and make a massive profit.
I did buy 5 myself, which I intend to exchange for Moderate Barkshield for some of my lesser-played alts, and quite frankly, I don't care if they are BtA or unbound.
So, yes, there will be some people who gambled big time and are probably very unhappy about the BtA change.
Personally I don't care that much - I don't expect to need the exchange for my main character - the reason being that I had 2-3 different sets of gear, with different stats for my different builds, and that meant 2-3 sets of high-rank enchants ... with Mod 16, a single set will mostly cover all I need, which frees up a lot of enchants, so I can basically just shift around what I have. I do realize that this situation may not be common, though.
Personally I don't care that much - I don't expect to need the exchange for my main character - the reason being that I had 2-3 different sets of gear, with different stats for my different builds, and that meant 2-3 sets of high-rank enchants ... with Mod 16, a single set will mostly cover all I need, which frees up a lot of enchants, so I can basically just shift around what I have. I do realize that this situation may not be common, though.
Want to add it's not just me, but players with a main BiS with multiple sets and more BiS-ish alts with R14s, some of them will probably stop to keep with endgame gear because required roles (tank/heal/dps) can be covered playing 2 classes only, are in an even safer spot. I could even being advantaged in a BtA exchange system, keeping useless enchantment until they get re-balanced and having bound enchantment around could also increase prices on medium term.. I mostly feel bad for who didn't get the right enchantment while they got cheap and foremost for guildies/friends I suggested not to worry about feeding the (real ones) AH exploiters when prices went crazy and wait, because things will get compensated with to exchange system.. That said: I am surely missing something, but at the moment the only QoL compensation to all changes/nerfs/grind introduced is the "refine until success" + streak breaker system: that is awesome itself, thank you for that, but don't we deserve something more?
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lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
Personally I don't care that much - I don't expect to need the exchange for my main character - the reason being that I had 2-3 different sets of gear, with different stats for my different builds, and that meant 2-3 sets of high-rank enchants ... with Mod 16, a single set will mostly cover all I need, which frees up a lot of enchants, so I can basically just shift around what I have. I do realize that this situation may not be common, though.
Want to add it's not just me, but players with a main BiS with multiple sets and more BiS-ish alts with R14s, some of them will probably stop to keep with endgame gear because required roles (tank/heal/dps) can be covered playing 2 classes only, are in an even safer spot. I could even being advantaged in a BtA exchange system, keeping useless enchantment until they get re-balanced and having bound enchantment around could also increase prices on medium term.. I mostly feel bad for who didn't get the right enchantment while they got cheap and foremost for guildies/friends I suggested not to worry about feeding the (real ones) AH exploiters when prices went crazy and wait, because things will get compensated with to exchange system.. That said: I am surely missing something, but at the moment the only QoL compensation to all changes/nerfs/grind introduced is the "refine until success" + streak breaker system: that is awesome itself, thank you for that, but don't we deserve something more?
^ This, I have 7 characters in the current system above 18k, 3 of which have multiple load-outs with several sets of gear slotted with rank 14's (idea being I could cover any party role needed, and never wait for a party, as well as carry lowbie alliance members through content)... I can easily drop down to 2 or 3 characters and cover the same roles now, which leaves me with with a bunch of spare rank 14's to do whatever with. That just leaves with with the difficult decision of which classes I will main this next mod (I know, I know, whale problems). While I doubt I will use the new enchantment exchange, I think it's a great QOL addition for those with limited budgets (even with the bta). I do empathize with those that would end up with multiple bound to account enchants, but I strongly suggest those players get to lvl 80, get gear to were they want it, then balance the enchants. In the new system not having your enchantments perfectly balanced isn't going to prevent you from finishing content... take some time, figure out what you need with the gear you grind for, then apply mount insignia's and enchants to balance for optimal performance.
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
There are too many different abuses, including changing bind status of bound enchants to unbound, that happen in an unbound system.
For anyone who wants to change their enchants but wants unbound ones, trading with players/using the auction house is the way to go.
This is completely unacceptable, cryptic waited an entire month after the exchanges were announced to tell everyone this. The post announcing the mod 16 exchanges made 0 mention of this fact and Cryptic mislead almost everyone by doing this. This will result in huge financial losses for a massive amount of the population and almost everyone being stuck with items that aren't useful to them anymore. Most of the game's population just got screwed over by this shortsighted decision, not just exploiters.
Many enchantments/insignias were reworked and the stat curve in mod 16 was changed significantly. This means almost everyone is now stuck with items that are no longer useful to them and many of them are no longer worth anything close to the value of the ones they will need to replace them with in the new module. Tons of players who were assured by their friends/guildies/other people that they wouldn't have to sell off the enchantments on their characters also lost an insane amount of money over this and are rightfully going to be furious.
Bottomline: Cryptic needs to come up with a better solution for preventing exploits than just HAMSTER over the game's entire population like this.
If preventing bound enchantments from being traded requires extra coding then please do the extra coding.
^^ This a million times this.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
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lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
This is completely unacceptable, cryptic waited an entire month after the exchanges were announced to tell everyone this. The post announcing the mod 16 exchanges made 0 mention of this fact and Cryptic mislead almost everyone by doing this. This will result in huge financial losses for a massive amount of the population and almost everyone being stuck with items that aren't useful to them anymore. Most of the game's population just got screwed over by this shortsighted decision, not just exploiters.
By this time every single veteran player should know that ANY market decision based entirely on preview or vague announcements is a gamble. Every single thing on preview is subject to change right up to go live, and it has ALWAYS been that way. Also, many veteran players (including me) had been telling everyone we could, to NOT to go on a spending spree, because there was NO WAY the exchange would go live without a binding mechanism. I'm sorry you feel burned or frustrated, but your feelings of what should be done and indignation go against common sense for market health, and run contrary to a very long history of how things have been handled in game since the very start.
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
This is completely unacceptable, cryptic waited an entire month after the exchanges were announced to tell everyone this. The post announcing the mod 16 exchanges made 0 mention of this fact and Cryptic mislead almost everyone by doing this. This will result in huge financial losses for a massive amount of the population and almost everyone being stuck with items that aren't useful to them anymore. Most of the game's population just got screwed over by this shortsighted decision, not just exploiters.
By this time every single veteran player should know that ANY market decision based entirely on preview or vague announcements is a gamble. Every single thing on preview is subject to change right up to go live, and it has ALWAYS been that way. Also, many veteran players (including me) had been telling everyone we could, to NOT to go on a spending spree, because there was NO WAY the exchange would go live without a binding mechanism. I'm sorry you feel burned or frustrated, but your feelings of what should be done and indignation go against common sense for market health, and run contrary to a very long history of how things have been handled in game since the very start.
Its not just speculation investments that got screwed up by this, its also the items you already owned and use. I didn't personally invest much into extra items.
While techically yes, preview stuff is subject to change, this was still a HAMSTER move on their part and there is no way they weren't fully aware that a massive number of players spent the last month under the impression this exchange would allow unbound trades.
The exchange doesn't have to remain unbound to be satisfactory but they definitely need to come up with a better solution to their exploit fears than this. There are several good suggestions scattered throughout this thread that aren't so shortsighted.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
This is completely unacceptable, cryptic waited an entire month after the exchanges were announced to tell everyone this. The post announcing the mod 16 exchanges made 0 mention of this fact and Cryptic mislead almost everyone by doing this. This will result in huge financial losses for a massive amount of the population and almost everyone being stuck with items that aren't useful to them anymore. Most of the game's population just got screwed over by this shortsighted decision, not just exploiters.
By this time every single veteran player should know that ANY market decision based entirely on preview or vague announcements is a gamble. Every single thing on preview is subject to change right up to go live, and it has ALWAYS been that way. Also, many veteran players (including me) had been telling everyone we could, to NOT to go on a spending spree, because there was NO WAY the exchange would go live without a binding mechanism. I'm sorry you feel burned or frustrated, but your feelings of what should be done and indignation go against common sense for market health, and run contrary to a very long history of how things have been handled in game since the very start.
I played that game 3 years ago, whenever there was a modulo change, a class cried, owners of some modified enchant cried, quite different from the current changes that seems more like a reset in the game with the players inside. When a player buys or ups an enchant he does it for a reason (feyt and dread are good examples), and if that reason has been totally changed, he loses his finale.
I could also cite the Vorpal, for a long time it was the worst enchant of the game, I know, because I already had it. I've been kicked out of ToNG in my GWF for being using Vorpal. After this I went to get information here in the forum and in other places the reason he was renegated which made me have a miss of AD absurd to exchange it. The description of critical severity in the game does not specify that there is a limit (I believe it has been removed in this module) and that after that there is no relevant addition of damage. I was with my Half-Orc, 3 companions of critical severity legendary and without any damage even having an equipment with all the correct statuses. Part of this was my fault of investing without having researched before, as part was also of the company of not having put a notice on the cap max.
Enchants have always been safe assets, suffered from little devaluation and are a great currency for trading, I got my two legendary mounts through the exchange for my enchants. Almost no one will use the current system for this reason. I believe that like me, many will suffer gigantic losses and will be frustrated and will not remain. But as you say, the market will remain healthy after that.
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lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
I played that game 3 years ago, whenever there was a modulo change, a class cried, owners of some modified enchant cried, quite different from the current changes that seems more like a reset in the game with the players inside. When a player buys or ups an enchant he does it for a reason (feyt and dread are good examples), and if that reason has been totally changed, he loses his finale.
I could also cite the Vorpal, for a long time it was the worst enchant of the game, I know, because I already had it. I've been kicked out of ToNG in my GWF for being using Vorpal. After this I went to get information here in the forum and in other places the reason he was renegated which made me have a miss of AD absurd to exchange it. The description of critical severity in the game does not specify that there is a limit (I believe it has been removed in this module) and that after that there is no relevant addition of damage. I was with my Half-Orc, 3 companions of critical severity legendary and without any damage even having an equipment with all the correct statuses. Part of this was my fault of investing without having researched before, as part was also of the company of not having put a notice on the cap max.
Enchants have always been safe assets, suffered from little devaluation and are a great currency for trading, I got my two legendary mounts through the exchange for my enchants. Almost no one will use the current system for this reason. I believe that like me, many will suffer gigantic losses and will be frustrated and will not remain. But as you say, the market will remain healthy after that.
1. I'm sorry that you had the experience of being kicked from a dungeon because of your weapon enchantment... As for the effectiveness of vorpal vs feytouched in Mod 15 or less, it's a matter of math.. there isn't a hard cap on crit severity, just a point of diminishing returns where your base crit sev + extra crit sev < bonus damage. There are plenty of external resources that go into theory-crafting and the math formulas for you to optimize a character, and there is at least 1 resource for mod 16 that does a fantastic job breaking down character stat optimization math. It's part of the "work" to a game like this to let the player base figure out optimal, and if optimal is worth the effort (for many people "good enough to do content" is all the effort required as optimal != viable)
2. You must have forgot when gmops got devalued. This game has a long pattern of decisions around timing, values and the market... enough so that most decisions are not at all surprising or shocking. If an exchange had went live, and allowed to have unbound enchants, that would have been a surprise (and really bad). Undermountain, class overhaul, companion changes, and the 5e style changes came as no surprise to many of us who have been following the game (and were all predicted by several of us, without inside knowledge)... just follow the pattern.
3. The truth is that most of the player base (who also do not test on preview, or bother reading the forums) will have no idea what the optimal stats are going to be when 16 hits, and should hold off doing any exchanges until the dust settles... many people are going to be pleasantly surprised that the enchantments they are using now will be perfectly fine for the next mod for viable play (optimal does not equal viable!).
**Edit I leveled 3 different characters to 80 on preview using U-fey as my weapon enchant, and ran several expeditions on those characters solo... (including a buggy way under-performing Ranger) I had zero issues with the content. So yes fey is no longer optimal for DPS, but that does not make it no longer viable. I little less panic and vitriol please.
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
I could also cite the Vorpal, for a long time it was the worst enchant of the game, I know, because I already had it. I've been kicked out of ToNG in my GWF for being using Vorpal. After this I went to get information here in the forum and in other places the reason he was renegated which made me have a miss of AD absurd to exchange it. The description of critical severity in the game does not specify that there is a limit (I believe it has been removed in this module) and that after that there is no relevant addition of damage. I was with my Half-Orc, 3 companions of critical severity legendary and without any damage even having an equipment with all the correct statuses. Part of this was my fault of investing without having researched before, as part was also of the company of not having put a notice on the cap max.
I don't disagree with the upset of the "renting usefulness" argument.
Just would like to point out that Vorpal was actually best in slot for more than "a long time".
Classic through Mod 12.5 was dominated by Vorpal.
Things only changed around 11.5, where GWF was the only one not using Vorpal. For most other classes, Vorpal was the general purpose weapon enchant, with some some rocking Lightning on AoE, others situationally using Dread for specific builds (ex: Trapper HR or 3 hit GF). Vorpal only got outclassed in Mod 12.5 because the devs finally fixed the one "balancing" factor of Feytouched: the fact it was buggy as hell. Fix the bugs, and Feytouched was a drawback free "18%/20% free damage".
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,152Arc User
If bta exchange goes live with a limited time exchange, people who dont want enchants bta need replacements with runestones plus enchants on toons. This means trading with a massive influx of everyone in the same scenario.
So, people with the means to buy up all runestones in ah or open lockboxes have an edge. They will be profiteering heavily, but profiteering isnt what devs are concerned with. They could easily make it so only r11+ enchants and unbound could be exchanged as unbound.
Everyone who has already invested in current companion enchants,with no means of replacing without a large repository of rp, wards, mark's, etc., everyone without the same resources will have to will have to sell or trade thier existing enchants heavily depreciated market for assasin enchants and runestones, etc. which will have a huge mark up in comparison. Requiring more zen, wards, and whatnot to be purchased. Newer players incentivises to buy zen to acquire extremely cheap existing enchants flooring market.
They want to force massive amounts of new enchants and runestones to be created at the players expense for those that want unbound, or get enchants bound as they will not be able to min max without replacing enchants again as they progress, get new gear, stat system changes or whatever they plan on doing again in the future. Once it's done, then it's free for all on forcing this kind of "fix" at players expense in the future. Coupled with companion, insignia and mount "fix" making all live bis all requiring replacememts also. They don't care about in game players profiteering. If anything it's all an ad sink motivated ingame profiteering by devs.
Obvious underhanded next level cash grab
Or, a player walks/rides over to Bradda's, decides what stone they want, buys it with gold, and refines it with all those BtA stones they already have. Non-issue.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
I'll get right on that converting bound enchants when mod goes live, but with having only 1 bta summer festival enchant and 5 btc heart of fire enchants, not sure if it will be very impactful as rp. All other bta enchants I have ever acquired were converted to rp to make equiped unbound enchants. That suggestion is not much help since making runestones all from scratch, trading at huge loss, buying or just about anything else previously stated.
For each toon a player has there are currently 20 enchants slots to potentially rebalance on the toon, plus 3 bonding and another 6 enchants on companion everyone will need to replace.
For me thats 24 r14 runestones I'll need to replace and another 6 r13 on companions, another potential 100 enchants on toons to rebalance, not counting thier 15 bonding stones or any of my lower level alts. Even considering trades it would cost me up to 28m just to replace same rank enchants on companions with runestones.
This impacts every single player whether they have multiple endgame toons or just one.
To buy 6x r14 runestones is 12to13.2m ad per toon with current pricing. Even figuring trade costs and creation costs using ah prices, it's still a 4.5 to 6 mil additional cost using ah pricing per toon if you trade 6 r14 enchants for runestones (not including rp if creating). When the mod goes live price disparity will increase when more enchants flood the market and runestones become higher in demand.
Having a problem seeing the "non-issue" as we must have a totally different interpretation.
noun: non-issue a topic of little or no importance.
I could also cite the Vorpal, for a long time it was the worst enchant of the game, I know, because I already had it. I've been kicked out of ToNG in my GWF for being using Vorpal. After this I went to get information here in the forum and in other places the reason he was renegated which made me have a miss of AD absurd to exchange it. The description of critical severity in the game does not specify that there is a limit (I believe it has been removed in this module) and that after that there is no relevant addition of damage. I was with my Half-Orc, 3 companions of critical severity legendary and without any damage even having an equipment with all the correct statuses. Part of this was my fault of investing without having researched before, as part was also of the company of not having put a notice on the cap max.
I don't disagree with the upset of the "renting usefulness" argument.
Just would like to point out that Vorpal was actually best in slot for more than "a long time".
Classic through Mod 12.5 was dominated by Vorpal.
Things only changed around 11.5, where GWF was the only one not using Vorpal. For most other classes, Vorpal was the general purpose weapon enchant, with some some rocking Lightning on AoE, others situationally using Dread for specific builds (ex: Trapper HR or 3 hit GF). Vorpal only got outclassed in Mod 12.5 because the devs finally fixed the one "balancing" factor of Feytouched: the fact it was buggy as hell. Fix the bugs, and Feytouched was a drawback free "18%/20% free damage".
Yep and now Vorpal reign returns.
0
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I could also cite the Vorpal, for a long time it was the worst enchant of the game, I know, because I already had it. I've been kicked out of ToNG in my GWF for being using Vorpal. After this I went to get information here in the forum and in other places the reason he was renegated which made me have a miss of AD absurd to exchange it. The description of critical severity in the game does not specify that there is a limit (I believe it has been removed in this module) and that after that there is no relevant addition of damage. I was with my Half-Orc, 3 companions of critical severity legendary and without any damage even having an equipment with all the correct statuses. Part of this was my fault of investing without having researched before, as part was also of the company of not having put a notice on the cap max.
I don't disagree with the upset of the "renting usefulness" argument.
Just would like to point out that Vorpal was actually best in slot for more than "a long time".
Classic through Mod 12.5 was dominated by Vorpal.
Things only changed around 11.5, where GWF was the only one not using Vorpal. For most other classes, Vorpal was the general purpose weapon enchant, with some some rocking Lightning on AoE, others situationally using Dread for specific builds (ex: Trapper HR or 3 hit GF). Vorpal only got outclassed in Mod 12.5 because the devs finally fixed the one "balancing" factor of Feytouched: the fact it was buggy as hell. Fix the bugs, and Feytouched was a drawback free "18%/20% free damage".
Yep and now Vorpal reign returns.
I mean, to be fair, Vorpal as the best option seems appropriate in the D&D context anyway, it's just that Vorpal wins by probably too wide of a margin.
Uh...you need bonding runestones, sure....but the regular ones are almost irrelevant - or rather, it doesn't really matter if you have something like a R8 runestone or a R15 one.
The reason, well, the new companion gear gives a massive number of stats - 10000+ points in total. The runestones only give a few hundred points, Upgrading a runestone from R14 to R15 gives you an increase of 80 additional points (from 580 to 660)- insignificant, compared to the stats given buy the gear.
Hoping for improvements...
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lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
I could also cite the Vorpal, for a long time it was the worst enchant of the game, I know, because I already had it. I've been kicked out of ToNG in my GWF for being using Vorpal. After this I went to get information here in the forum and in other places the reason he was renegated which made me have a miss of AD absurd to exchange it. The description of critical severity in the game does not specify that there is a limit (I believe it has been removed in this module) and that after that there is no relevant addition of damage. I was with my Half-Orc, 3 companions of critical severity legendary and without any damage even having an equipment with all the correct statuses. Part of this was my fault of investing without having researched before, as part was also of the company of not having put a notice on the cap max.
I don't disagree with the upset of the "renting usefulness" argument.
Just would like to point out that Vorpal was actually best in slot for more than "a long time".
Classic through Mod 12.5 was dominated by Vorpal.
Things only changed around 11.5, where GWF was the only one not using Vorpal. For most other classes, Vorpal was the general purpose weapon enchant, with some some rocking Lightning on AoE, others situationally using Dread for specific builds (ex: Trapper HR or 3 hit GF). Vorpal only got outclassed in Mod 12.5 because the devs finally fixed the one "balancing" factor of Feytouched: the fact it was buggy as hell. Fix the bugs, and Feytouched was a drawback free "18%/20% free damage".
Yep and now Vorpal reign returns.
I mean, to be fair, Vorpal as the best option seems appropriate in the D&D context anyway, it's just that Vorpal wins by probably too wide of a margin.
Do the math, the margin on vorpal isn't that wide, especially when you have 80k+ points in CA (or have a low crit build)... other enchants like plague fire and dread start looking very competitive in those scenarios. Remember that CA and Crit sev get lumped together in the damage calc
As for standard enchantments, I might not switch any of mine out (already running only Black Ice 14 in offense on 5 characters), and focus my efforts on insignia, and gear. As well as just making the runestones I need, which free's up 5 or 6 rank 14 enchantments per character.
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Do the math, the margin on vorpal isn't that wide, especially when you have 80k+ points in CA (or have a low crit build)...
Ah, well... the problem with that is with solo play. I mean, with the latest changes, most people will probably want to run an augment all the time and that means you will not have CA against your opponents when fighting solo (unless you have some class-specific power that gives you CA).
And, if you don't have CA against the opponent, it does not matter how many points you have in the CA stat, so a high-crit build is probably the way to go for most people...and that means Vorpal has an advantage.
Personally I would have liked a few more enchants to be seen as viable.
Do we have a confirmation on when the streak breaker kicks in for making enchantments from shards? If I wanted a lesser Terror enchant, how many shards do I actually need to gather to make that happen without absolutely requiring a coalescent ward?
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lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
Do the math, the margin on vorpal isn't that wide, especially when you have 80k+ points in CA (or have a low crit build)...
Ah, well... the problem with that is with solo play. I mean, with the latest changes, most people will probably want to run an augment all the time and that means you will not have CA against your opponents when fighting solo (unless you have some class-specific power that gives you CA).
And, if you don't have CA against the opponent, it does not matter how many points you have in the CA stat, so a high-crit build is probably the way to go for most people...and that means Vorpal has an advantage.
Personally I would have liked a few more enchants to be seen as viable.
I plan to run mostly with a standard companion for solo play, and an augment for group play. I want to both have my cake, and eat it
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
2
lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
Do the math, the margin on vorpal isn't that wide, especially when you have 80k+ points in CA (or have a low crit build)...
Ah, well... the problem with that is with solo play. I mean, with the latest changes, most people will probably want to run an augment all the time and that means you will not have CA against your opponents when fighting solo (unless you have some class-specific power that gives you CA).
And, if you don't have CA against the opponent, it does not matter how many points you have in the CA stat, so a high-crit build is probably the way to go for most people...and that means Vorpal has an advantage.
Personally I would have liked a few more enchants to be seen as viable.
Another thought... the solo portion of the game is pretty trivial, as I can do all the solo content with a bare minimum alt running rank 6 enchantments and moderate weapon enchants... it doesn't make a lot of sense to tune your character for solo content, but instead tune for group content, as such you will probably want to run a lot of CA points (and an augment), and work with your team to have CA as often as possible. In that scenario again, vorpal may not be as good as the other alternatives. So while vorpal may be all around best for DPS there are alternatives that could best it on a regular basis in group play.
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,414Arc User
Do we have a confirmation on when the streak breaker kicks in for making enchantments from shards? If I wanted a lesser Terror enchant, how many shards do I actually need to gather to make that happen without absolutely requiring a coalescent ward?
What I heard is 150. Regardless, it does not make economic sense to make a lesser Terror from shards even if it is 100 or 50. I think buying a moderate is cheaper.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Zen market will never return to its normal state until Bot prayers will non banned! prayer bots that pray in the thousands every day and get catalysts for it. Then collect the stones, sell them and stand in line at Zen market! With these Zen premium accounts are bought for years! and the keys are collected by the same thousands of bots!
on russain server 5 peolpe make 90% of all stones in game! right now 150+pcs 14lvl stones are selling by 4 or 5 nicknames ! just look at our auction!!! Why no one react on this information ????
I plan on running high crit/high ca and vorpal is easily my only choice for group content. I plan on bloodtheft/lifedrinker for solo survivability. Would be nice to have other more dps related weapon enchantments as bronzewood is probably a distant second from vorpal unless you are running just a ca build.
1
lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
Do the math, the margin on vorpal isn't that wide, especially when you have 80k+ points in CA (or have a low crit build)...
Ah, well... the problem with that is with solo play. I mean, with the latest changes, most people will probably want to run an augment all the time and that means you will not have CA against your opponents when fighting solo (unless you have some class-specific power that gives you CA).
And, if you don't have CA against the opponent, it does not matter how many points you have in the CA stat, so a high-crit build is probably the way to go for most people...and that means Vorpal has an advantage.
Personally I would have liked a few more enchants to be seen as viable.
Another thought... the solo portion of the game is pretty trivial, as I can do all the solo content with a bare minimum alt running rank 6 enchantments and moderate weapon enchants... it doesn't make a lot of sense to tune your character for solo content, but instead tune for group content, as such you will probably want to run a lot of CA points (and an augment), and work with your team to have CA as often as possible. In that scenario again, vorpal may not be as good as the other alternatives. So while vorpal may be all around best for DPS there are alternatives that could best it on a regular basis in group play.
I don't play the game since pre-barovia launch cuz of personal reasons, and I had [at that time] a perfect feytouched and a pure terror. IMO even playing as a rogue I won't change my terror, maybe trade my feytouched into a plaguefire or another one. I never liked the vorpal enchant since my playstyle always was hi-CA to melt bosses asap, BUT I understand why ppl like vorpal instead of other enchants. And since crit%is capped now, I still don't see any reason to use a vorpal.
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
> Uh...you need bonding runestones, sure....but the regular ones are almost irrelevant - or rather, it doesn't really matter if you have something like a R8 runestone or a R15 one. > > The reason, well, the new companion gear gives a massive number of stats - 10000+ points in total. The runestones only give a few hundred points, Upgrading a runestone from R14 to R15 gives you an increase of 80 additional points (from 580 to 660)- insignificant, compared to the stats given buy the gear.
Well, as an example rainiers non-augment companion stat bonus equation is below, augments offer more stats if that's the route you go.
1st proc gear score x bonding percentage 2nd proc after 30 seconds ((Base value x companion influence) + (base value x bonding percentage) + combat rating) x bonding percentage for stats. Not including bolstered overall damage contribution of companion influenced by runestones.
So actual stats that proc are not base value of runestones multiplied by bonding percentage alone. It takes into account more and isn't a flat additive percent to companions overall stat contribution via proc, which in turn offers greater value to the runestones when coupled with gear, off/def/utility slot enhancements, comp influence, gearscore, etc.
While I agree that the individual stat numbers are underwhelming at best on runestones, they are more impactful than you imply, as companion gear and character gear for stats are also limited in balancing options for min maxing, aside from enchants. Not to mention you have to first run content to get the new gear.
Edit:As of last patch augments now apprear quite a bit more alluring while strikers have been nerfed from 50%+ overall damage to 10to15%. Though the equations for both have been changed during patch updates.
Post edited by mongol69 on
2
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I plan to run mostly with a standard companion for solo play, and an augment for group play. I want to both have my cake, and eat it
Prior to last Friday's patch that was my plan too. However, the reduced damage from combat companions seems to suggest the only valid reason for running a non-augment in solo play is if
You have a high-CA, low-crit build, and are not using Vorpal.
You do not have any class-specific powers to gain CA against your opponents.
In this case, it seems any of the following would work
Use Dancing Shield or Black Death Scorpion to automatically gain CA against your opponent
Use Blink dog or any other component that teleports behind your opponent and gives you CA.
Use any companion and carefully and constantly reposition yourself on the opposite side of the enemy to gain CA.
In just about any other situation, augments simply deliver more.
Now, things might change. They have been fiddling with the formulas how Companion Influence and bolster works, for example (and there have been differences between augments and non-augments). Depending on what the final results look like, augments might no be as superior as they are today.
Comments
Someone's making a profit and I would guess it would be much higher than armour or weapon enchants which would quickly stabilize in comparrison to x total players x6 runestones which are required to even run content, plus assasins enchants, dps, op and DCs etc. running bis enchants live that will need to change out.
I did buy 5 myself, which I intend to exchange for Moderate Barkshield for some of my lesser-played alts, and quite frankly, I don't care if they are BtA or unbound.
So, yes, there will be some people who gambled big time and are probably very unhappy about the BtA change.
Personally I don't care that much - I don't expect to need the exchange for my main character - the reason being that I had 2-3 different sets of gear, with different stats for my different builds, and that meant 2-3 sets of high-rank enchants ... with Mod 16, a single set will mostly cover all I need, which frees up a lot of enchants, so I can basically just shift around what I have. I do realize that this situation may not be common, though.
I mostly feel bad for who didn't get the right enchantment while they got cheap and foremost for guildies/friends I suggested not to worry about feeding the (real ones) AH exploiters when prices went crazy and wait, because things will get compensated with to exchange system..
That said: I am surely missing something, but at the moment the only QoL compensation to all changes/nerfs/grind introduced is the "refine until success" + streak breaker system: that is awesome itself, thank you for that, but don't we deserve something more?
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
My Twitch Stream
See my Youtube Channel for guides and more
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Many enchantments/insignias were reworked and the stat curve in mod 16 was changed significantly. This means almost everyone is now stuck with items that are no longer useful to them and many of them are no longer worth anything close to the value of the ones they will need to replace them with in the new module. Tons of players who were assured by their friends/guildies/other people that they wouldn't have to sell off the enchantments on their characters also lost an insane amount of money over this and are rightfully going to be furious.
Bottomline: Cryptic needs to come up with a better solution for preventing exploits than just HAMSTER over the game's entire population like this.
Also: ^^ This a million times this.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
My Twitch Stream
See my Youtube Channel for guides and more
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
While techically yes, preview stuff is subject to change, this was still a HAMSTER move on their part and there is no way they weren't fully aware that a massive number of players spent the last month under the impression this exchange would allow unbound trades.
The exchange doesn't have to remain unbound to be satisfactory but they definitely need to come up with a better solution to their exploit fears than this. There are several good suggestions scattered throughout this thread that aren't so shortsighted.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
I played that game 3 years ago, whenever there was a modulo change, a class cried, owners of some modified enchant cried, quite different from the current changes that seems more like a reset in the game with the players inside. When a player buys or ups an enchant he does it for a reason (feyt and dread are good examples), and if that reason has been totally changed, he loses his finale.
I could also cite the Vorpal, for a long time it was the worst enchant of the game, I know, because I already had it. I've been kicked out of ToNG in my GWF for being using Vorpal. After this I went to get information here in the forum and in other places the reason he was renegated which made me have a miss of AD absurd to exchange it. The description of critical severity in the game does not specify that there is a limit (I believe it has been removed in this module) and that after that there is no relevant addition of damage. I was with my Half-Orc, 3 companions of critical severity legendary and without any damage even having an equipment with all the correct statuses. Part of this was my fault of investing without having researched before, as part was also of the company of not having put a notice on the cap max.
Enchants have always been safe assets, suffered from little devaluation and are a great currency for trading, I got my two legendary mounts through the exchange for my enchants. Almost no one will use the current system for this reason. I believe that like me, many will suffer gigantic losses and will be frustrated and will not remain. But as you say, the market will remain healthy after that.
2. You must have forgot when gmops got devalued. This game has a long pattern of decisions around timing, values and the market... enough so that most decisions are not at all surprising or shocking. If an exchange had went live, and allowed to have unbound enchants, that would have been a surprise (and really bad). Undermountain, class overhaul, companion changes, and the 5e style changes came as no surprise to many of us who have been following the game (and were all predicted by several of us, without inside knowledge)... just follow the pattern.
3. The truth is that most of the player base (who also do not test on preview, or bother reading the forums) will have no idea what the optimal stats are going to be when 16 hits, and should hold off doing any exchanges until the dust settles... many people are going to be pleasantly surprised that the enchantments they are using now will be perfectly fine for the next mod for viable play (optimal does not equal viable!).
**Edit I leveled 3 different characters to 80 on preview using U-fey as my weapon enchant, and ran several expeditions on those characters solo... (including a buggy way under-performing Ranger) I had zero issues with the content. So yes fey is no longer optimal for DPS, but that does not make it no longer viable. I little less panic and vitriol please.
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
My Twitch Stream
See my Youtube Channel for guides and more
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Just would like to point out that Vorpal was actually best in slot for more than "a long time".
Classic through Mod 12.5 was dominated by Vorpal.
Things only changed around 11.5, where GWF was the only one not using Vorpal. For most other classes, Vorpal was the general purpose weapon enchant, with some some rocking Lightning on AoE, others situationally using Dread for specific builds (ex: Trapper HR or 3 hit GF). Vorpal only got outclassed in Mod 12.5 because the devs finally fixed the one "balancing" factor of Feytouched: the fact it was buggy as hell. Fix the bugs, and Feytouched was a drawback free "18%/20% free damage".
For each toon a player has there are currently 20 enchants slots to potentially rebalance on the toon, plus 3 bonding and another 6 enchants on companion everyone will need to replace.
For me thats 24 r14 runestones I'll need to replace and another 6 r13 on companions, another potential 100 enchants on toons to rebalance, not counting thier 15 bonding stones or any of my lower level alts. Even considering trades it would cost me up to 28m just to replace same rank enchants on companions with runestones.
This impacts every single player whether they have multiple endgame toons or just one.
To buy 6x r14 runestones is 12to13.2m ad per toon with current pricing. Even figuring trade costs and creation costs using ah prices, it's still a 4.5 to 6 mil additional cost using ah pricing per toon if you trade 6 r14 enchants for runestones (not including rp if creating). When the mod goes live price disparity will increase when more enchants flood the market and runestones become higher in demand.
Having a problem seeing the "non-issue" as we must have a totally different interpretation.
noun: non-issue
a topic of little or no importance.
The reason, well, the new companion gear gives a massive number of stats - 10000+ points in total. The runestones only give a few hundred points, Upgrading a runestone from R14 to R15 gives you an increase of 80 additional points (from 580 to 660)- insignificant, compared to the stats given buy the gear.
As for standard enchantments, I might not switch any of mine out (already running only Black Ice 14 in offense on 5 characters), and focus my efforts on insignia, and gear. As well as just making the runestones I need, which free's up 5 or 6 rank 14 enchantments per character.
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
My Twitch Stream
See my Youtube Channel for guides and more
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
And, if you don't have CA against the opponent, it does not matter how many points you have in the CA stat, so a high-crit build is probably the way to go for most people...and that means Vorpal has an advantage.
Personally I would have liked a few more enchants to be seen as viable.
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
My Twitch Stream
See my Youtube Channel for guides and more
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
My Twitch Stream
See my Youtube Channel for guides and more
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Zen market will never return to its normal state until Bot prayers will non banned! prayer bots that pray in the thousands every day and get catalysts for it. Then collect the stones, sell them and stand in line at Zen market! With these Zen premium accounts are bought for years! and the keys are collected by the same thousands of bots!
on russain server 5 peolpe make 90% of all stones in game! right now 150+pcs 14lvl stones are selling by 4 or 5 nicknames ! just look at our auction!!! Why no one react on this information ????
> Uh...you need bonding runestones, sure....but the regular ones are almost irrelevant - or rather, it doesn't really matter if you have something like a R8 runestone or a R15 one.
>
> The reason, well, the new companion gear gives a massive number of stats - 10000+ points in total. The runestones only give a few hundred points, Upgrading a runestone from R14 to R15 gives you an increase of 80 additional points (from 580 to 660)- insignificant, compared to the stats given buy the gear.
Well, as an example rainiers non-augment companion stat bonus equation is below, augments offer more stats if that's the route you go.
1st proc
gear score x bonding percentage
2nd proc after 30 seconds
((Base value x companion influence) + (base value x bonding percentage) + combat rating) x bonding percentage for stats.
Not including bolstered overall damage contribution of companion influenced by runestones.
So actual stats that proc are not base value of runestones multiplied by bonding percentage alone.
It takes into account more and isn't a flat additive percent to companions overall stat contribution via proc, which in turn offers greater value to the runestones when coupled with gear, off/def/utility slot enhancements, comp influence, gearscore, etc.
While I agree that the individual stat numbers are underwhelming at best on runestones, they are more impactful than you imply, as companion gear and character gear for stats are also limited in balancing options for min maxing, aside from enchants. Not to mention you have to first run content to get the new gear.
Edit:As of last patch augments now apprear quite a bit more alluring while strikers have been nerfed from 50%+ overall damage to 10to15%. Though the equations for both have been changed during patch updates.
- You have a high-CA, low-crit build, and are not using Vorpal.
- You do not have any class-specific powers to gain CA against your opponents.
In this case, it seems any of the following would work- Use Dancing Shield or Black Death Scorpion to automatically gain CA against your opponent
- Use Blink dog or any other component that teleports behind your opponent and gives you CA.
- Use any companion and carefully and constantly reposition yourself on the opposite side of the enemy to gain CA.
In just about any other situation, augments simply deliver more.Now, things might change. They have been fiddling with the formulas how Companion Influence and bolster works, for example (and there have been differences between augments and non-augments). Depending on what the final results look like, augments might no be as superior as they are today.