A better direction for mod 16

feanor70118

I am very discouraged by how ambitious they claim to be with mod 16. The last time they tried anything like this (increased level cap, overhauls everywhere) was mod 6, which was a disaster (remember the "everything is still awesome" press release they put out afterwards? What incredibly gullible people was that supposed to be aimed at?). The design and direction of the game has only gotten worse ever since then, with recent innovations (K Team and Tales of Old) being full of a whole new set of bad ideas.

You know what would make mod 16 exciting?

A new level 60 cap.

A rollback of mod 6 power/HP creep.

A public list of upcoming changes based on years of available player input, all available right here. No more devs who don't play or understand the game and its classes trying to reinvent the wheel in a vacuum and therefore bolluxing up everything they touch.

A fix to the total mess they've made out of masterwork with the failure to properly integrate +1 items.

A rollback of pvp mechanics and boons to mod 2.

Elimination of tedious cut scenes from dungeons.

Realistic IL gates for public queues.

A comprehensive look at taking the RNG out of the game wherever possible, especially in refining upgrades.

There are plenty of longstanding problems with this game that should be fixed. Introducing new content and sweeping changes is only going to come with more. Mod 16 is the equivalent of putting a newer, bigger, faster lemon on the road when the previous one is still waiting on work to be done due to a massive recall.

sandukutupu

I know it sounds like a giant step backwards, but that is the direction they need to go to fix things. Take the game back to formula and stop trying to add what we don't need and never ask for.

benyr

Think im viewing theses changes with equal feelings of fear and excitement.

Im really happy theyre finally trying to sort class balances and multi function queing across the classes. Im dreading what the level raise to 80 will bring, as like many im still wincing at the memory of the increase from 60 to 70.

So my sole request at this time is can the devs properly engage with us on these forums to allay fears. My first concern is for enchants, im guessing lifesteal and recovery will be replaced by new stats?

And what about crit, if thats now capped at 50% and i currently have 100% am i going to be left with a load of devalued azures i need to swap out? It would be nice if we were given the option to swap them for another enchant of our choosing at the same rank? That would be a game breaker for me if i had to ditch 6 rank 14 azures and rank up 6 say radiants from rank 7 purely due to a change in mechanics.

rikitaki

Forget azures, what would happen to Dread and Vorpal?

silverkelt

I think for the amount of changes, a swap system would be idea imo.. Like right now.. we are talking about a # of recovery enchants.. a # of crit enchants.. ect..

swap any rank for the rank of your choice..

thefabricant

Don't judge the new mod based off what you have seen, it is only the barebones information and more will come. I am excited for m16.

rjc9000

thefabricant said:

Don't judge the new mod based off what you have seen, it is only the barebones information and more will come. I am excited for m16.

disagree

yperkeimenos

Yeah i agree with the op, it'll be bad and the new Dev team has no idea how it was back then in Mod 6. Personally i don't really care either way because i haven't paid Cryptic a penny since i knew it'd be a waste of money. When i buy something i expect it to last a long time and not be useless and obsolete in a matter of months or a year. This planned obsolescence of our equipment means that if you buy a set of armour you'll need to change it in a couple of mods.

feanor70118

From what I can see of the posted changes so far:

Capping crit at 50% is, predictably, a huge nerf to HRs who have had to devote huge resources and tiem to getting to 100% crit in order to remain halfway relevant to the game.

Getting rid of AP gain sources makes sense but, again, HRs alone have partial AP dailies that are meant to be used often, such as as disruptive shot. Once again HR takes the biggest hit from the nerfhammer.

HR is already saddled with the longest cooldowns (especially to charge refill time on Cordon of Arrows, which has never really been useful because of it) due to the way that everyone played trapper for a while. Trapper has been basically irrelevant for several mods now - against the wishes of the player base, as usual - but the cooldown problems remain. This will only make it worse. Unless of course HR at-wills receive the large buffs that they have needed forever. I doubt it. The dev team is expert at ignoring the HR class.

Removing lifesteal without hugely nerfing mobs and bosses - i.e. a rollback of bad ideas from mod 6 - is a terrible idea. We are already plagued by over-reliance on support classes. This will only make it worse.

So far this looks like just another instance of clueless devs trying to fix things that aren't broken and breaking things by doing so. And, as usual, the HR class gets hit the worst.

We already knew how to have a version of this game that was fun and playable and in which content was accessible in a best-of-all-possible-worlds way. That was mods 2-4. There's no need to keep going further away from that model when every step away from it so far has been a terrible idea.

wisper2048

feanor70118 said:

Capping crit at 50% is, predictably, a huge nerf to HRs who have had to devote huge resources and tiem to getting to 100% crit in order to remain halfway relevant to the game.

Getting rid of AP gain sources makes sense but, again, HRs alone have partial AP dailies that are meant to be used often, such as as disruptive shot. Once again HR takes the biggest hit from the nerfhammer.

Bosses and mobs will be changed in a big way from what it looks. Whether it is nerf or buff - yet to be seen.

Feat system will be completely changed, so likely Trappers and some other builds will be likely impossible. Crit dependent feats will be possibly gone.

The only thing that I could guess with some probability is that they will nerf TR and DC again in mod 16b or 17.

Unknown

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nodeexpoliters

Lost count of how many times we hear "this is needed to fix the game'. Even before Mod 6 fiasco the Devs had lost it. All this just goes to show a serious disconnect between players and developers. Remember the 'we have to remove set bonus because its breaking the game'' only for Devs to reintroduce set bonuses, Its a rudderless ship. Devs don't play this game in any kind of serious manner, watch them doing live stream when they invite players to run with them and you'll understand. The one thing that always made this MMO different was, IT was different. Now they're turning in into every other MMO.

The PC version is now going to be nothing more than a super test server for console! Good luck with that because from what i hear a lot of the testers are going to leave.

majorcharvenak

hitchslapped said:

idk i'm pretty sure removing lifesteal from the game when the few people who actually play healing classes as healers already don't bother to heal tr's is a pretty major nerf to tr's as is, nevermind in combination with capping crit @ 50% ( cos it ain't just hr's that have had to push their crit to remain relevant, y'know.. ) AND legitimising 'everything is a dps' by making it so that literally every class other than paladins can fill a dps slot, further encouraging classes that can heal to play as a dps instead, as if that wasn't already a longstanding issue in the game.

that said, yeah, we'll probably get nerfed again in 16b or 17 as well.

The healers will have to do something other than trying to play as a DPS as the tanks have a new shield mechanic tied to their HP. Not sure atm if its an instant refresh after the first hit without said shield. I suspect the healers will have to stay busy making green numbers if this mod goes live with the changes they propose.

thefiresidecat

feanor70118 said:

From what I can see of the posted changes so far:

Capping crit at 50% is, predictably, a huge nerf to HRs who have had to devote huge resources and tiem to getting to 100% crit in order to remain halfway relevant to the game.

Getting rid of AP gain sources makes sense but, again, HRs alone have partial AP dailies that are meant to be used often, such as as disruptive shot. Once again HR takes the biggest hit from the nerfhammer.

HR is already saddled with the longest cooldowns (especially to charge refill time on Cordon of Arrows, which has never really been useful because of it) due to the way that everyone played trapper for a while. Trapper has been basically irrelevant for several mods now - against the wishes of the player base, as usual - but the cooldown problems remain. This will only make it worse. Unless of course HR at-wills receive the large buffs that they have needed forever. I doubt it. The dev team is expert at ignoring the HR class.

Removing lifesteal without hugely nerfing mobs and bosses - i.e. a rollback of bad ideas from mod 6 - is a terrible idea. We are already plagued by over-reliance on support classes. This will only make it worse.

So far this looks like just another instance of clueless devs trying to fix things that aren't broken and breaking things by doing so. And, as usual, the HR class gets hit the worst.

We already knew how to have a version of this game that was fun and playable and in which content was accessible in a best-of-all-possible-worlds way. That was mods 2-4. There's no need to keep going further away from that model when every step away from it so far has been a terrible idea.

except hr is getting totally reworked along with all the other classes. wait and see. maybe it makes sense.. it won't be the same animal it is today.

rjc9000

thefiresidecat said:

except hr is getting totally reworked along with all the other classes. wait and see. maybe it makes sense.. it won't be the same animal it is today.

Actually, he's right.

You see, the devs did [redacted] and [redacted] to [redacted] [redacted] and other [redacted]. There are even some [redacted] that you guys might enjoy. That being said, [redacted] is not enough to compensate for [redacted] or [redacted].
You might consider a [redacted] build when the module goes live, but it won't be that much better than [redacted] or [redacted]. I can tell you for sure, without breaking NDA, that [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] [redacted].

There is a reason I dropped from the test group after all, and that was because I disliked [redacted] [reacted] after seeing my latest exam scores.


Therefore, if I were you, I'd follow in feanor's path and start channeling your inner complaints wizard.

feanor70118

My real problem with everything I see about mod 16 is that this dev team has not earned our trust.

They forfeited our trust when they refused to take accountability for the raft of mistakes in mod 15, would not listen to player input on how those should be fixed, and flat out lied to us that +1 crafting items are "working as intended for now."

So I don't believe that this team has the familiarity with the game to do any of the mod 16 project goals without making a mess of them.

I don't believe that they listen to player input or even remotely care what we think.

I think they're being pushed in this direction by a management team that is appallingly clueless.

This is essentially the plot of "The Music Man," in which a tone-deaf con man sells a town all the new instruments for its band but plans to skip town without giving any lessons, because of course he doesn't know how to play music. These devs don't know Neverwinter, they don't know what players want and they don't care, but they're promising us something bright and shiny that that don't know how to deliver and certainly don't know how to build right.

luffyhaki123

just overacting like always, im so use to you all acting this way so its just like oh ok other overacting post lol. this game is getting a overhaul that it needed and much more content that it needed and a level cap which it needed and everything they have told us so far is needed, tanking and healing will be much more importent, balanced classes will be a thing now. fixing all the boring 1 hit HAMSTER the game been for so long, fixing the meta of 4 buffs and 1 dps. They are finally doing what neverwinter needed for a long time.

valmunter99

@feanor70118 i cringed so hard... some ppl just cant handle games LOL

valmunter99

@feanor70118 and please man stop using the word "our" when u post your pathetic posts on forums!

therealprotex

benyr said:

Think im viewing theses changes with equal feelings of fear and excitement.



Im really happy theyre finally trying to sort class balances and multi function queing across the classes. Im dreading what the level raise to 80 will bring, as like many im still wincing at the memory of the increase from 60 to 70.



So my sole request at this time is can the devs properly engage with us on these forums to allay fears. My first concern is for enchants, im guessing lifesteal and recovery will be replaced by new stats?



And what about crit, if thats now capped at 50% and i currently have 100% am i going to be left with a load of devalued azures i need to swap out? It would be nice if we were given the option to swap them for another enchant of our choosing at the same rank? That would be a game breaker for me if i had to ditch 6 rank 14 azures and rank up 6 say radiants from rank 7 purely due to a change in mechanics.

You won't have a fix crit rate anylonger. You will have a crit rate relative to your opponents, calculated by your crit stat and your opponent's crit avoid stat. That relative crit rate is capped at 50%. Example:

Your crit stat: 25000
Your opponent's crit avoid stat: 10000
Your crit rate vs this opponent: (25000 - 10000) / 500 = 30%

Your crit stat: 50000
Your opponent's crit avoid stat: 10000
Your crit rate vs this opponent: (50000 - 10000) / 500 = 80% => capped to 50%

vernando122

The thing is for example I've been playing the game since July 2013 as a GWF I've been grinding for Legendary mounts, insignias, pets, enchants, gear, etc. And now they told me that im becoming a tank and most likely a weak dps? That really pisses me off.

rannxeroxx

feanor70118 said:

From what I can see of the posted changes so far:

Capping crit at 50% is, predictably, a huge nerf to HRs who have had to devote huge resources and tiem to getting to 100% crit in order to remain halfway relevant to the game.

Getting rid of AP gain sources makes sense but, again, HRs alone have partial AP dailies that are meant to be used often, such as as disruptive shot. Once again HR takes the biggest hit from the nerfhammer.

HR is already saddled with the longest cooldowns (especially to charge refill time on Cordon of Arrows, which has never really been useful because of it) due to the way that everyone played trapper for a while. Trapper has been basically irrelevant for several mods now - against the wishes of the player base, as usual - but the cooldown problems remain. This will only make it worse. Unless of course HR at-wills receive the large buffs that they have needed forever. I doubt it. The dev team is expert at ignoring the HR class.

Removing lifesteal without hugely nerfing mobs and bosses - i.e. a rollback of bad ideas from mod 6 - is a terrible idea. We are already plagued by over-reliance on support classes. This will only make it worse.

So far this looks like just another instance of clueless devs trying to fix things that aren't broken and breaking things by doing so. And, as usual, the HR class gets hit the worst.

We already knew how to have a version of this game that was fun and playable and in which content was accessible in a best-of-all-possible-worlds way. That was mods 2-4. There's no need to keep going further away from that model when every step away from it so far has been a terrible idea.

I am not sure that it is the HR class that gets hit the hardest. I main a OP and rely on encounter and daily spamming to gain any bit of ability to solo. And on top of that, our shield is being turned into HP... for reasons. I mean are our shields made of chunks of our flesh or something? Shields are meant to block... or not block something. Degrading their point value would mean in the real world that the shield itself gets physically destroyed on 0. Makes no sense.

I am going to take a wait and see but, frankly, I am not sure if I want to tank with this new Pally.

rannxeroxx

vernando122 said:

The thing is for example I've been playing the game since July 2013 as a GWF I've been grinding for Legendary mounts, insignias, pets, enchants, gear, etc. And now they told me that im becoming a tank and most likely a weak dps? That really pisses me off.

Ha, yeah, I saw that. Why in the world would they allow the Barbarian (GWF) to queue pug as a tank??? I mean they are even removing AC from the game, won't even get that stat.

rannxeroxx

luffyhaki123 said:

just overacting like always, im so use to you all acting this way so its just like oh ok other overacting post lol. this game is getting a overhaul that it needed and much more content that it needed and a level cap which it needed and everything they have told us so far is needed, tanking and healing will be much more importent, balanced classes will be a thing now. fixing all the boring 1 hit HAMSTER the game been for so long, fixing the meta of 4 buffs and 1 dps. They are finally doing what neverwinter needed for a long time.

Well if Cryptic or Perfect World had a good track record of listening to their community, fixing issues that are reported in a timely fashion, swallowing their pride and retracting or fixing a change that goes over like a lead balloon, properly compensating the player base when changes affect gear and such that players grinded hundreds of hours for or paid real money for, etc then I guess everyone would be all excited.

Frankly after this past year as an example, I am expecting a cluster f^%$.

Unknown

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benyr

> @therealprotex said:
>
> You won't have a fix crit rate anylonger. You will have a crit rate relative to your opponents, calculated by your crit stat and your opponent's crit avoid stat. That relative crit rate is capped at 50%. Example:
>
> Your crit stat: 25000
> Your opponent's crit avoid stat: 10000
> Your crit rate vs this opponent: (25000 - 10000) / 500 = 30%
>
> Your crit stat: 50000
> Your opponent's crit avoid stat: 10000
> Your crit rate vs this opponent: (50000 - 10000) / 500 = 80% => capped to 50%

Yep, i wrote that before i digested all the information. Many thanks for pointing it out, mental note to engage brain before fingers going forward 😊

gripnir78

vernando122 said:

The thing is for example I've been playing the game since July 2013 as a GWF I've been grinding for Legendary mounts, insignias, pets, enchants, gear, etc. And now they told me that im becoming a tank and most likely a weak dps? That really pisses me off.

Judging content without even trying ...

If you are as experienced as you say you are, you then, should remember a time when a GWF was the most capable tank in game.... besides who said that Barbie I mean Barbarian, barbarian.... gona be the worst dps in game? Its all speculations here. So take it easy.... at least for now.

dingoballz

thefabricant said:

Don't judge the new mod based off what you have seen, it is only the barebones information and more will come. I am excited for m16.

ROFLMAO the only people who would say they are excited about any new release from this company ,sure wasn't here for mod 6 and this mod will be no different. They have already stated after mod 15 they see nothing wrong with releasing a broken flawed product. Thankfully they do not produce cars or airplanes.
Also just to prove my point in how little they care look at this CTA event over this last weekend it dropped enchants with recovery on them knowing months ago they were getting rid of recovery . Did they bother to change the enchants that would be dropping , no.

thefabricant

dingoballz said:

thefabricant said:

Don't judge the new mod based off what you have seen, it is only the barebones information and more will come. I am excited for m16.

ROFLMAO the only people who would say they are excited about any new release from this company ,sure wasn't here for mod 6 and this mod will be no different. They have already stated after mod 15 they see nothing wrong with releasing a broken flawed product. Thankfully they do not produce cars or airplanes.
Also just to prove my point in how little they care look at this CTA event over this last weekend it dropped enchants with recovery on them knowing months ago they were getting rid of recovery . Did they bother to change the enchants that would be dropping , no.

I was here for module 6 and all the modules before it. If you don't believe me feel free to go through my post history, it should go all the way back to module 3 which was when I first started commenting on the forums, but I played before then. Module 6 saved the game from module 5, even if executed poorly. Almost everyone I knew in module 5 quit from sheer boredom.

dingoballz

LOL that is why the days after mod 6 dropped like a rock guild s were empty because so so many like yourself thought mod 6 was a good thing. Also this game has never recovered from mod 6 just look up the stats from Stream before mod 6 and after mod 6. I have been here since beta so I know what happened when mod 6 came out compared to other mods.

greywynd

dingoballz said:

Also just to prove my point in how little they care look at this CTA event over this last weekend it dropped enchants with recovery on them knowing months ago they were getting rid of recovery . Did they bother to change the enchants that would be dropping , no.

Ever stop and think that the enchants that were dropping will still be around, only with the stats changed to reflect the new system?