Are the recipe's going to be completed before launch? I only ask because I've looked for things which don't seem to exist, Tin Ingots for example. Plus there's no option to create Deer Leather while Wolf Leather requires 2 Deer Skins
The new equipment designs are very pretty but you might want to put a little more effort into the actual Crafting System
Just curious what you're supposed to do with alts that had only leadership leveled up to 25 ? This whole system appears to be a lot of smoke to hide the fact that leadership has been eliminated.
What does the Artisan's Commission Multiplier and Speed Multiplier do? Is higher value better/worst? What's the cooldown for new Artisan application?
0
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
@asterdahl after completing the intro gathering quest to pic the item from the chest i complete the ok, went to pick the next quest, after i pressed 1 to accept game stayed locked on cinematic frame and had to close game on task manager.
0
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
so far im loving the new workshop/profesion its sad i have to level up the employees of my workshop, any chance we willl have a worksheet of the max percentage each employee will have as eqip bonus?
0
alphastreamMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 209Arc User
My main feedback: This system is unnecessarily complex, cumbersome, hard for new users, and negatively impacts our ability to enjoy the game.
It's fine if you need to adjust the economy, but please rework this system to be simple, efficient/fast, and fun.
I would strongly not like to see this system go live in its current form.
Learn more about Dungeons & Dragons tabletop at Alphastream.org.
Honestly, maybe just remove professions entirely. That's my Hot Take™
Well, with Leadership RP gone, armor kits and jewels gone, guild donation boxes gone, and practically nothing worth making apart from a handful of Masterwork V items, crafting is essentially being made worthless.
They said they wanted it to be not for everyone - I think they will succeed to make it not for anyone.
Talking with Retainer - when you choose a conversation option, a secondary window pops up. If you click "Finished" it takes you out of the conversation entirely. It should take you back to the main conversation window in case you want to choose another option.
One apspect of this new appoach that I have not seen mentioned yet is that it feels very alt unfriendly. I have leveled different professions fully upon different toons. I do not want to have to grind out a workshop for each of them in order to get max level of each profession. Hence are workshops going to be account wide, or is there going to be a way to consolidate one's old profession asset accross toons upon a single account to a single toon
Thanks for your answer
0
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
One apspect of this new appoach that I have not seen mentioned yet is that it feels very alt unfriendly. I have leveled different professions fully upon different toons. I do not want to have to grind out a workshop for each of them in order to get max level of each profession. Hence are workshops going to be account wide, or is there going to be a way to consolidate one's old profession asset accross toons upon a single account to a single toon
Thanks for your answer
I suspect "alt unfriendly" is working as intended. Most of the benefits you get from professions is going to be waiting for them to complete. If they're NOT alt unfriendly, it basically incentivizes you to have alts that you don't play (which is very much the current pre-mod 15 model).
The more alt unfriendly the better IMO. Although, an Alt Neutral method of "Professions are handled account wide" could work-but that would be extremely awkward from a narrative sense.
Master's Desk - could you show the current task for the selected person? There's some space between the progress bar and the person's details for a brief task description.
If we are only able to assign 3 gathering tasks and 3 crafting tasks, what need is there for more than 24 artisans?
The 24 is actually based on having 3 of each profession. But once you have at least 3 of the crafting professions up and running, you really only need 1 artisan for those professions and 3 for gathering. That cuts it back to 10 necessary artisans, the rest are just fluff.
One apspect of this new appoach that I have not seen mentioned yet is that it feels very alt unfriendly. I have leveled different professions fully upon different toons. I do not want to have to grind out a workshop for each of them in order to get max level of each profession. Hence are workshops going to be account wide, or is there going to be a way to consolidate one's old profession asset accross toons upon a single account to a single toon
Thanks for your answer
I suspect "alt unfriendly" is working as intended. Most of the benefits you get from professions is going to be waiting for them to complete. If they're NOT alt unfriendly, it basically incentivizes you to have alts that you don't play (which is very much the current pre-mod 15 model).
The more alt unfriendly the better IMO. Although, an Alt Neutral method of "Professions are handled account wide" could work-but that would be extremely awkward from a narrative sense.
My point is this - If a player has maxed one profession per toon, does he now have to grind out a workshop for each of them. This does not seem fair, and if this is the case I think there should be a way to consolidate these asset
Its not about having 100 alts all gathering stuff, its about having 1 toon doing each profession
My best to you Mat
0
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
One apspect of this new appoach that I have not seen mentioned yet is that it feels very alt unfriendly. I have leveled different professions fully upon different toons. I do not want to have to grind out a workshop for each of them in order to get max level of each profession. Hence are workshops going to be account wide, or is there going to be a way to consolidate one's old profession asset accross toons upon a single account to a single toon
Thanks for your answer
I suspect "alt unfriendly" is working as intended. Most of the benefits you get from professions is going to be waiting for them to complete. If they're NOT alt unfriendly, it basically incentivizes you to have alts that you don't play (which is very much the current pre-mod 15 model).
The more alt unfriendly the better IMO. Although, an Alt Neutral method of "Professions are handled account wide" could work-but that would be extremely awkward from a narrative sense.
My point is this - If a player has maxed one profession per toon, does he now have to grind out a workshop for each of them. This does not seem fair, and if this is the case I think there should be a way to consolidate these asset
Its not about having 100 alts all gathering stuff, its about having 1 toon doing each profession
My best to you Mat
But here's the thing:
If you have so many slots for Doing Things for a toon, then having each toon do One Thing still means that having multiple toons is better than having One Toon, even if the different toons do different things. Hence why I wish they just made the whole thing account wide.
One apspect of this new appoach that I have not seen mentioned yet is that it feels very alt unfriendly. I have leveled different professions fully upon different toons. I do not want to have to grind out a workshop for each of them in order to get max level of each profession. Hence are workshops going to be account wide, or is there going to be a way to consolidate one's old profession asset accross toons upon a single account to a single toon
Thanks for your answer
I suspect "alt unfriendly" is working as intended. Most of the benefits you get from professions is going to be waiting for them to complete. If they're NOT alt unfriendly, it basically incentivizes you to have alts that you don't play (which is very much the current pre-mod 15 model).
The more alt unfriendly the better IMO. Although, an Alt Neutral method of "Professions are handled account wide" could work-but that would be extremely awkward from a narrative sense.
My point is this - If a player has maxed one profession per toon, does he now have to grind out a workshop for each of them. This does not seem fair, and if this is the case I think there should be a way to consolidate these asset
Its not about having 100 alts all gathering stuff, its about having 1 toon doing each profession
My best to you Mat
But here's the thing:
If you have so many slots for Doing Things for a toon, then having each toon do One Thing still means that having multiple toons is better than having One Toon, even if the different toons do different things. Hence why I wish they just made the whole thing account wide.
It hardly matters if there is nothing worth doing.
0
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
One apspect of this new appoach that I have not seen mentioned yet is that it feels very alt unfriendly. I have leveled different professions fully upon different toons. I do not want to have to grind out a workshop for each of them in order to get max level of each profession. Hence are workshops going to be account wide, or is there going to be a way to consolidate one's old profession asset accross toons upon a single account to a single toon
Thanks for your answer
I suspect "alt unfriendly" is working as intended. Most of the benefits you get from professions is going to be waiting for them to complete. If they're NOT alt unfriendly, it basically incentivizes you to have alts that you don't play (which is very much the current pre-mod 15 model).
The more alt unfriendly the better IMO. Although, an Alt Neutral method of "Professions are handled account wide" could work-but that would be extremely awkward from a narrative sense.
My point is this - If a player has maxed one profession per toon, does he now have to grind out a workshop for each of them. This does not seem fair, and if this is the case I think there should be a way to consolidate these asset
Its not about having 100 alts all gathering stuff, its about having 1 toon doing each profession
My best to you Mat
But here's the thing:
If you have so many slots for Doing Things for a toon, then having each toon do One Thing still means that having multiple toons is better than having One Toon, even if the different toons do different things. Hence why I wish they just made the whole thing account wide.
It hardly matters if there is nothing worth doing.
Well, as I've said before, the solution there then is to just remove the professions system from the game entirely.
Legendary tools will convert 1:1 with a new tool of your choice which are all bound to a specific profession. Will that new tool be Account or character bound or can it be traded on AH, even after being used like the old legendary tools? And I guess all old legendary tools will be handled equal so u dont distinguish between a (former) 20 mill Philosofers Stone and a 99 mill crucible?
1
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Legendary tools will convert 1:1 with a new tool of your choice which are all bound to a specific profession. Will that new tool be Account or character bound or can it be traded on AH, even after being used like the old legendary tools? And I guess all old legendary tools will be handled equal so u dont distinguish between a (former) 20 mill Philosofers Stone and a 99 mill crucible?
Oh that's a good point. For the uber rich, I suppose you might be able to make income by buying low value legendaries and then converting them. Though, if anything, I'd expect high value legendaries to just plummet in value, so I don't actually recommend that investment method.
In Tailoring I observed that you need for one clothe masterworkmaterial so you should rework the recipes.
0
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
@asterdahl i noticed that the epic version of profession artisans i have on live version of the game become useless in mod 15 after i spent ad buying them and become useless on mod 15, while you introduce a new rng stuff for new artisans for mod 15, you need to make the live version into new contracts with their respective quality for mod 15, totaly not fair you are making player buy artisan all over again, totally not fair.
3
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
edited September 2018
workshop/profession needs to be account wide, because we gonna start making alts for one of each gathering then mail resources to main char workshop, and we need a collect all from the chest to be add to the "N" page going back and forward to workshop to empty chest aint gonna help anybody, also the chest from the storage from gathering and order we put in is too small we need it like a inventory size, and noticed we cant press Nwhen we are inside workshop.
workshop/profession needs to be account wide, because we gonna start making alts for one of each gathering then mail resources to main char workshop, and we need a collect all from the chest to be add to the "N" page going back and forward to workshop to empty chest aint gonna help anybody, also the chest from the storage from gathering and order we put in is too small we need it like a inventory size, and noticed we cant press Nwhen we are inside workshop.
See, this guy gets it. Making leadership army more cumbersome but still more profitable just makes people who are more okay with repetitive monotonous nonsense earn more than people who want to actually play the game.
workshop/profession needs to be account wide, because we gonna start making alts for one of each gathering then mail resources to main char workshop, and we need a collect all from the chest to be add to the "N" page going back and forward to workshop to empty chest aint gonna help anybody, also the chest from the storage from gathering and order we put in is too small we need it like a inventory size, and noticed we cant press Nwhen we are inside workshop.
See, this guy gets it. Making leadership army more cumbersome but still more profitable just makes people who are more okay with repetitive monotonous nonsense earn more than people who want to actually play the game.
My wife plays solitaire for hours just to zone. Your comment about "actually play the game" is simply your opinion about how to play the game. I for one don't mind alt-army professions but I hate, hate with a passion doing farming while others are just the opposite.
They have a saying on the Appalachian Trail and that is hike your own trail, don't try and hike someone else.
I suspect "alt unfriendly" is working as intended. Most of the benefits you get from professions is going to be waiting for them to complete. If they're NOT alt unfriendly, it basically incentivizes you to have alts that you don't play (which is very much the current pre-mod 15 model).
The more alt unfriendly the better IMO. Although, an Alt Neutral method of "Professions are handled account wide" could work-but that would be extremely awkward from a narrative sense.
Why would you or Cyptic care if you play alts or use alts not? Most bought the extra slots and are using just one account. And if most are like me they will spend (sink) AD into their alts for fashions, mounts, etc. Heck, I even give mine all back stories. Again, why would anyone care if people play an army of alts, its their game to play how they play it. Personally I hate farming, don't know how people stand to do it.
1
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
workshop/profession needs to be account wide, because we gonna start making alts for one of each gathering then mail resources to main char workshop, and we need a collect all from the chest to be add to the "N" page going back and forward to workshop to empty chest aint gonna help anybody, also the chest from the storage from gathering and order we put in is too small we need it like a inventory size, and noticed we cant press Nwhen we are inside workshop.
See, this guy gets it. Making leadership army more cumbersome but still more profitable just makes people who are more okay with repetitive monotonous nonsense earn more than people who want to actually play the game.
My wife plays solitaire for hours just to zone. Your comment about "actually play the game" is simply your opinion about how to play the game. I for one don't mind alt-army professions but I hate, hate with a passion doing farming while others are just the opposite.
They have a saying on the Appalachian Trail and that is hike your own trail, don't try and hike someone else.
You know, I thought this defense was ridiculous, because leadership armies crowd out other play styles. But thinking through it, it's kind of the opposite: the crowding out argument definitely made sense back when Leadership gave RADs, but all Leadership has done lately has been reducing the cost of RP. And that doesn't add AD into the system, it just makes for a transfer of payments.
Now, to some extent RP is competitive, but not in the same way AD is; the cost of RP doesn't directly correspond with the price of other objects on the AH (except for complimentary goods like enchanting stones et al).
Still: I know that I personally as a player do professions not because I enjoy it or want to, but because I feel like if I don't do them, I'm going to be left behind. It's leaving money on the table. Players are incentivized to do them.
If doing professions was somehow exclusionary to doing non-professions content, it'd be fine-that's the "hike your own trail" thing. But that's the thing; professions are just on top of anything else you do. So you either don't do professions, and miss out on a crucial source of income (indirectly), or you do professions, and put up with what is, to most people, tedium.
That all being said, I don't think the new system really solves this in any way shape or form; it sort of just makes it so stressful to do professions that fewer people are going to do them, and the hope there is that if fewer people do professions, fewer people will feel like they're leaving money on the table by not doing them. But that's just a hypothesis.
I still say the game would just be better without them (though, it'd probably make RP more expensive than it needs to be)
0
monkeeyman1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 46Arc User
Not entirely sure where to start on this as there is so much to say/add about this upcoming change. For some context - I've been playing this game since Alpha, have spent more money on it than I'd ever actually admit, and have really enjoyed most of my time with the game.
Now for this change:
First thing first, the person who designed the tutorial for the new crafting system, take a rolled up newspaper to their nose, slap them a few times, and tell them very sternly, "No, Not ever again." Maybe rub their noses in it as well to make sure it sticks.
I mean seriously, that tutorial qualifies as a war crime.
I have never ever attempted something so incoherent, non-intuitive, and just crazy. Start over and make something that is clearer.
Specifically:
- I never would have finished the tutorial without some help from a guildie, some wild guessing, and being able to "cheat" since it was on preview (ie - using that special box in the workshop to get materials/assets you would normally have to pay for or not be able to get).
- The part of the tutorial to get 10 artisans, after getting that, no help or guidance in the game as to how to get the additional artisans. You'd think you go to your desk, where you can add artisans, but i go there and there are no applications. Only way I can add any is using that "special" box in the workshop that lets us "cheat" on preview.
- The part where you have to donate 500K commissions to the person by the AH, appears to be no way to donate exactly 500K, at least not without getting your sliderule out, relearning Trig, and maybe taking Pi out 1,000 spaces. I mean come on - if you are going to set it at 500K, then the limit either needs to be above it, or allow us to donate so that it doesn't have to exactly equal 500K, and it just ignores everything above it.
There are many, many examples like this that I think most of us experienced in doing the tutorial. But really, I have other, more important issues or concerns about these changes in professions:
- When i first started with this, I was excited, to see some depth/complexity - but what I ended up coming away with, was something a guildie said to me - What is the value of this to the player? I kept thinking over and over about it, and I had no answer. Think about all these changes and what value would I get to this as a player?
AD - nope, that was removed from professions a long time ago
RP - as an end game player, not sure I really need RP from this, plus, the costs of the materials, the cost in gold to do this, plus the time, doesn't really seem like it is a wise choice to "invest" in professions for RP. A new player, doubt they would have the gold necessary, plus they would most likely get all the RP they need from actually running content
XP - looks like that is being removed as part of this change, this was a great way to get overflow experience for your alts, to get their necessary powerpoints.
Gear - the gear (not talking MW, as we don't really know if anything is changing with MW or being added in this area) that you can craft is no where near good enough to be worth the effort, especially when random stuff dropping from a mob is better
Stronghold stuff - well, those recipes aren't there now (or I didn't see them), but I am going to assume they will eventually be there, but we don't know if it will be worthwhile to still make these, will it be too costly for what they provide?
And let me add - with these changes you MUST add some way to craft/create a Labor "crate" or something that we can donate, for the smaller/mid guilds, labor is a really big bottleneck, and there aren't enough ways to get real amounts of labor to donate.
So, with all of that above, I just don't see where there is a lot of value for me to invest in professions. I know the comment was made by the devs that maybe crafting isn't for everyone, but it should be for someone, it should be for a good number of people, or what the heck is it even in the game? Put the resources elsewhere? I mean, I actually enjoyed professions.
OK, my first overall impression of the new professions update... I hate it. Its un-enjoyable, frustrating, and an annoying system that you are replacing a simply and eloquent system with.
WHERE IS LEADERSHIP?!?! Military leaderships is now... gathering? 90% of players who do professions do leadership and it is completely gutted. WTF?
Going to Protector's Enclave is a time suck as that area loads ssssssssllllllloooooowwww. If you simply HAVE to have us go to some location, just add a spot on the map that has nothing but this room in so it will load faster.
What is with the whole gold sink HAMSTER? Unless you completely rework gold and money/AD in the game, this is just going to frustrate people as gold is very limited.
I HATE, HATE, HATE walking back and forth between these stupid "benches, desks, etc". I want to be able to pull up the craft menu while viewing the gathering one, etc. Why can't I view all at the same time? Why?
That is just the first few points. This update SUCKS!
Comments
The new equipment designs are very pretty but you might want to put a little more effort into the actual Crafting System
This system is unnecessarily complex, cumbersome, hard for new users, and negatively impacts our ability to enjoy the game.
It's fine if you need to adjust the economy, but please rework this system to be simple, efficient/fast, and fun.
I would strongly not like to see this system go live in its current form.
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They said they wanted it to be not for everyone - I think they will succeed to make it not for anyone.
Thanks for your answer
I suspect "alt unfriendly" is working as intended. Most of the benefits you get from professions is going to be waiting for them to complete. If they're NOT alt unfriendly, it basically incentivizes you to have alts that you don't play (which is very much the current pre-mod 15 model).
The more alt unfriendly the better IMO. Although, an Alt Neutral method of "Professions are handled account wide" could work-but that would be extremely awkward from a narrative sense.
The 24 is actually based on having 3 of each profession. But once you have at least 3 of the crafting professions up and running, you really only need 1 artisan for those professions and 3 for gathering. That cuts it back to 10 necessary artisans, the rest are just fluff.
My point is this - If a player has maxed one profession per toon, does he now have to grind out a workshop for each of them. This does not seem fair, and if this is the case I think there should be a way to consolidate these asset
Its not about having 100 alts all gathering stuff, its about having 1 toon doing each profession
My best to you
Mat
If you have so many slots for Doing Things for a toon, then having each toon do One Thing still means that having multiple toons is better than having One Toon, even if the different toons do different things. Hence why I wish they just made the whole thing account wide.
Will that new tool be Account or character bound or can it be traded on AH, even after being used like the old legendary tools?
And I guess all old legendary tools will be handled equal so u dont distinguish between a (former) 20 mill Philosofers Stone and a 99 mill crucible?
The deliveries are unavailable outside workshop and it say
A workshop sending stone is required….. Complete the quest "A Box for Knox" to obtain this item.
They have a saying on the Appalachian Trail and that is hike your own trail, don't try and hike someone else.
Now, to some extent RP is competitive, but not in the same way AD is; the cost of RP doesn't directly correspond with the price of other objects on the AH (except for complimentary goods like enchanting stones et al).
Still: I know that I personally as a player do professions not because I enjoy it or want to, but because I feel like if I don't do them, I'm going to be left behind. It's leaving money on the table. Players are incentivized to do them.
If doing professions was somehow exclusionary to doing non-professions content, it'd be fine-that's the "hike your own trail" thing. But that's the thing; professions are just on top of anything else you do. So you either don't do professions, and miss out on a crucial source of income (indirectly), or you do professions, and put up with what is, to most people, tedium.
That all being said, I don't think the new system really solves this in any way shape or form; it sort of just makes it so stressful to do professions that fewer people are going to do them, and the hope there is that if fewer people do professions, fewer people will feel like they're leaving money on the table by not doing them. But that's just a hypothesis.
I still say the game would just be better without them (though, it'd probably make RP more expensive than it needs to be)
Now for this change:
First thing first, the person who designed the tutorial for the new crafting system, take a rolled up newspaper to their nose, slap them a few times, and tell them very sternly, "No, Not ever again." Maybe rub their noses in it as well to make sure it sticks.
I mean seriously, that tutorial qualifies as a war crime.
I have never ever attempted something so incoherent, non-intuitive, and just crazy. Start over and make something that is clearer.
Specifically:
- I never would have finished the tutorial without some help from a guildie, some wild guessing, and being able to "cheat" since it was on preview (ie - using that special box in the workshop to get materials/assets you would normally have to pay for or not be able to get).
- The part of the tutorial to get 10 artisans, after getting that, no help or guidance in the game as to how to get the additional artisans. You'd think you go to your desk, where you can add artisans, but i go there and there are no applications. Only way I can add any is using that "special" box in the workshop that lets us "cheat" on preview.
- The part where you have to donate 500K commissions to the person by the AH, appears to be no way to donate exactly 500K, at least not without getting your sliderule out, relearning Trig, and maybe taking Pi out 1,000 spaces. I mean come on - if you are going to set it at 500K, then the limit either needs to be above it, or allow us to donate so that it doesn't have to exactly equal 500K, and it just ignores everything above it.
There are many, many examples like this that I think most of us experienced in doing the tutorial. But really, I have other, more important issues or concerns about these changes in professions:
- When i first started with this, I was excited, to see some depth/complexity - but what I ended up coming away with, was something a guildie said to me - What is the value of this to the player? I kept thinking over and over about it, and I had no answer. Think about all these changes and what value would I get to this as a player?
- AD - nope, that was removed from professions a long time ago
- RP - as an end game player, not sure I really need RP from this, plus, the costs of the materials, the cost in gold to do this, plus the time, doesn't really seem like it is a wise choice to "invest" in professions for RP. A new player, doubt they would have the gold necessary, plus they would most likely get all the RP they need from actually running content
- XP - looks like that is being removed as part of this change, this was a great way to get overflow experience for your alts, to get their necessary powerpoints.
- Gear - the gear (not talking MW, as we don't really know if anything is changing with MW or being added in this area) that you can craft is no where near good enough to be worth the effort, especially when random stuff dropping from a mob is better
- Stronghold stuff - well, those recipes aren't there now (or I didn't see them), but I am going to assume they will eventually be there, but we don't know if it will be worthwhile to still make these, will it be too costly for what they provide?
And let me add - with these changes you MUST add some way to craft/create a Labor "crate" or something that we can donate, for the smaller/mid guilds, labor is a really big bottleneck, and there aren't enough ways to get real amounts of labor to donate.So, with all of that above, I just don't see where there is a lot of value for me to invest in professions. I know the comment was made by the devs that maybe crafting isn't for everyone, but it should be for someone, it should be for a good number of people, or what the heck is it even in the game? Put the resources elsewhere? I mean, I actually enjoyed professions.
- WHERE IS LEADERSHIP?!?! Military leaderships is now... gathering? 90% of players who do professions do leadership and it is completely gutted. WTF?
- Going to Protector's Enclave is a time suck as that area loads ssssssssllllllloooooowwww. If you simply HAVE to have us go to some location, just add a spot on the map that has nothing but this room in so it will load faster.
- What is with the whole gold sink HAMSTER? Unless you completely rework gold and money/AD in the game, this is just going to frustrate people as gold is very limited.
- I HATE, HATE, HATE walking back and forth between these stupid "benches, desks, etc". I want to be able to pull up the craft menu while viewing the gathering one, etc. Why can't I view all at the same time? Why?
That is just the first few points. This update SUCKS!