Anyone can verify if the sh temp vendors sell +1 mats of unique items ? Not referring to mats such as Artisans Putty, Gold Nuggets, etc. I am referring to stuff that only comes from the vendor - Terebinth, Alkali, Woad, etc.
Just some tips to consider before finalizing this rework:
"More complicated" does not equal "better" "More steps to accomplish anything" does not equal "streamlined" "Profusion of confusion" does not equal "more interesting" "RNG for everything!" does not equal "increased options" "Taking away stuff we sold to you, and giving back 'fewer things, that do less!'" does not equal "more valuable"
Please update your game design lexicons.
So far, the rewrite has only accomplished your apparent primary goal of "Cryptic wants fewer people crafting, and they want all those who remain crafters to pay through the nose for the privilege to do so". All the player benefit goals remain promises, smoke and mirrors.
Asterdahl, this system is not fully debugged and working AND it is still not a satisfactory replacement for the current system. Hold the release for another couple of weeks to get it done.
Edit: Nope, this bug still exists on live as of Mod 15!
Was doing the Workshop quest chain again and the "Consult Your Retainer" steps are broken. The retainer only shows the list of goods once, so you either have to memorise it, or drop the quest and re-pick it up to see what you need to make. Also, the second "Consult Your Retainer" becomes non-completable even after making one of the requested ingredients. I had to drop the quest and pick it up again before the system recognised that I had it in my inventory.
Was doing the Workshop quest chain again and the "Consult Your Retainer" steps are broken. The retainer only shows the list of goods once, so you either have to memorise it, or drop the quest and re-pick it up to see what you need to make. Also, the second "Consult Your Retainer" becomes non-completable even after making one of the requested ingredients. I had to drop the quest and pick it up again before the system recognised that I had it in my inventory.
Edited: This was a pre-patch character, might be working after all
Was doing the Workshop quest chain on an alt today, and got up to "The Grand Upgrade" where you need 5,000,000 credits. At no point has my retainer allowed me to exchange assets or ingredients. He's still stuck on the speech about Karmela not hiring enough artisans. I have the max number of artisans (20/20 for a Tier 3 workshop), and I don't know why he keeps on referring to this only, and does not progress the quest chain.
Was doing the Workshop quest chain on an alt today, and got up to "The Grand Upgrade" where you need 5,000,000 credits. At no point has my retainer allowed me to exchange assets or ingredients. He's still stuck on the speech about Karmela not hiring enough artisans. I have the max number of artisans (20/20 for a Tier 3 workshop), and I don't know why he keeps on referring to this only, and does not progress the quest chain.
Have you picked up the little bag at the back of the workshop, on the bench behind retainer? No obvious quest path or mention of it, but will stop progress until you open it...
Might is not always right - the powerful sometimes forget that.
Was doing the Workshop quest chain on an alt today, and got up to "The Grand Upgrade" where you need 5,000,000 credits. At no point has my retainer allowed me to exchange assets or ingredients. He's still stuck on the speech about Karmela not hiring enough artisans. I have the max number of artisans (20/20 for a Tier 3 workshop), and I don't know why he keeps on referring to this only, and does not progress the quest chain.
Have you picked up the little bag at the back of the workshop, on the bench behind retainer? No obvious quest path or mention of it, but will stop progress until you open it...
Yes. There is nothing left to pick up on the bench.
As it is, I'm on the final part of the Workshop quest chain on my second character - "The Grand Upgrade" to earn 5 million South Sea Credit.
When I completed this on my main character (before the most recent Preview patch), I was able to exchange credits with the retainer way before this point in the quest chain.
But as it stands, I cannot get the Exchange Credit prompts from my retainer on my second character at all, having tried to do it after the most recent Preview patch.
If your toon was on preview before the last update, it likely carried the bug over from previously. They stated they knew the bug, but not worth fixing on preview. If you ported over fresh, then yes, it would be a bug.
Might is not always right - the powerful sometimes forget that.
If your toon was on preview before the last update, it likely carried the bug over from previously. They stated they knew the bug, but not worth fixing on preview. If you ported over fresh, then yes, it would be a bug.
mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
Artisan Commission is paid in Gold for most items crafted. I believe that should never change. Commission costs should ONLY be Gold across professions. Currently, kits for example have a commission in Astral Diamonds instead of gold. I don't believe this should be the case.
The commission for kits should be gold and the input costs should include a fixed amount of Astral Diamonds in addition to the other required inputs. This will make it so that we don't have a problem pertaining to artisans that have anywhere from -75% to +200% commission costs. That range of commission modifiers makes more sense when only applied to gold cost.
Caveat - I thought about this like 10 minutes ago and there may be something that makes what I am saying here a bad idea...but I cant of anything wrong with this idea at the moment.
Artisan Commission is paid in Gold for most items crafted. I believe that should never change. Commission costs should ONLY be Gold across professions. Currently, kits for example have a commission in Astral Diamonds instead of gold. I don't believe this should be the case.
The commission for kits should be gold and the input costs should include a fixed amount of Astral Diamonds in addition to the other required inputs. This will make it so that we don't have a problem pertaining to artisans that have anywhere from -75% to +200% commission costs. That range of commission modifiers makes more sense when only applied to gold cost.
Caveat - I thought about this like 10 minutes ago and there may be something that makes what I am saying here a bad idea...but I cant of anything wrong with this idea at the moment.
Why would you want to spend 125k AD or more, when you can spend less than 35k AD with the current system on Test?
I like it being less expensive to make these items. It means they will sell for less. I think this is good for the players overall.
I am on the preview server acquiring artisans (artificers) and I am getting multiple copies of the same artisans. I got three Benedict Klaude, three Phelianna, two Brindi Goldsky, two Ergon Senriver, and two Junne Nightbloom. Can you use the same artisan twice or three times.
I am on the preview server acquiring artisans (artificers) and I am getting multiple copies of the same artisans. I got three Benedict Klaude, three Phelianna, two Brindi Goldsky, two Ergon Senriver, and two Junne Nightbloom. Can you use the same artisan twice or three times.
How do I attach images?
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited November 2018
I have a wild suggestion, please:
Delay this thing for a week, and remove the entire focus, and +1 idea.
The two results from one task is a bad idea.
This is not streamlining, not simpler, this is also much less maintainable, you as devs need to maintain twice the items used in professions. Which means less likely to be maintained, and not as updated for new zones and new stuff. Some things do not have a parallel +1, some focus is bugged, the entire production chain looks like an unholy mess if looked really carefully, and no simple craft cost estimation.
You want to make a hard reset on materials and the NPCs? Why?! Still +1 chains are not the answer, make +1 only base resources and for chance only, and maybe maybe craft-able supplements, here your favorite tripple RNG hiding.
But the two results from every task need to go away.
This is not streamlining, and not "made simpler", this is orders of magnitude more complex than the old system, with more points of failure, in terms of things not working correctly, broken recipe chains, unbalanced recipes, etc.. How you, as devs, can design a recipe or drop rates for materials or set focus, or predict the costs if the cost of crafting a result is cyclically depends on the market price of the complimentary result (regular on the +1 and vice versa) and this is for the whole chain of crafting..
I can understand, an idea is to sell Zen supplements or something, sell higher chance, dab hands, recycle, whatever... It can work almost as pres-wards for crafting.
But for now this system looks too complex in terms of maintenance, market prediction, recipe adjustment, dev time in making double items, debugging.
Delay this thing for a week, and remove the entire focus, and +1 idea.
Snowball chance in hell comes to mind....
I am not naive, but if it snowed in the Sahara desert, we passed the proficiency check, who knows, all we left for a snowball in hell, is the focus roll...
They're out of touch, but they're not stupid. Asterdahl knows it's not ready. They know they're cheating the hamster out of us. They don't care. No other game developer would get away with as much half-HAMSTER stuff as this game let's through with his job in tact, but in NW they won't be shown the door and they know it.
Weathered Adamantine Philosopher's Stone still can NOT be traded in for a new legendary asset at the workshops retainer.Just checked again today after this most recent patch ...still broken.
Masterworks 4 quest progress requires items to be crafted and handed in for progress, However IF i have a success and get a +1 result the MW4 quests do NOT recognise +1 items and as such are a failed result when trying to complete MW4 on any proffession. This would also apply to ANY MW levels where the quests require crafted items to be handed in as they dont recognise +1 items for the quests.
Do no expect any changes. Have you seen a devs around here lately? No? Me neither Expect all the bugs be tranfered on live. No worries, legendary tool is a worthless piece of junk now (well almost). I guess in time they gona fix this bug and few others but in the meantime we gona have our fun struggling with workshop and crafting. And somehow I am cartain, that a list of bugs we gona find is going to be a lot longer then we thought.
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited November 2018
It is amazing how much time and dev resources were put into a broken system that they themselves only expect/ admitted from day one a minority of players will use it/ it is catering to ... it boggles the mind ...this is what job security is make something so complex that you are essentially fireproof
1% of player will use it to its full potential ... perfect lets pile all dev resources into it *scratches head*
that is my 2 cents here in this thread folks as i have remained silent ..
Comments
Just some tips to consider before finalizing this rework:
"More complicated" does not equal "better"
"More steps to accomplish anything" does not equal "streamlined"
"Profusion of confusion" does not equal "more interesting"
"RNG for everything!" does not equal "increased options"
"Taking away stuff we sold to you, and giving back 'fewer things, that do less!'" does not equal "more valuable"
Please update your game design lexicons.
So far, the rewrite has only accomplished your apparent primary goal of "Cryptic wants fewer people crafting, and they want all those who remain crafters to pay through the nose for the privilege to do so". All the player benefit goals remain promises, smoke and mirrors.
Edited: This was a pre-patch characterEdit: Nope, this bug still exists on live as of Mod 15!
Was doing the Workshop quest chain again and the "Consult Your Retainer" steps are broken. The retainer only shows the list of goods once, so you either have to memorise it, or drop the quest and re-pick it up to see what you need to make. Also, the second "Consult Your Retainer" becomes non-completable even after making one of the requested ingredients. I had to drop the quest and pick it up again before the system recognised that I had it in my inventory.
Was doing the Workshop quest chain on an alt today, and got up to "The Grand Upgrade" where you need 5,000,000 credits. At no point has my retainer allowed me to exchange assets or ingredients. He's still stuck on the speech about Karmela not hiring enough artisans. I have the max number of artisans (20/20 for a Tier 3 workshop), and I don't know why he keeps on referring to this only, and does not progress the quest chain.
Might is not always right - the powerful sometimes forget that.
The Small BandAs it is, I'm on the final part of the Workshop quest chain on my second character - "The Grand Upgrade" to earn 5 million South Sea Credit.
When I completed this on my main character (before the most recent Preview patch), I was able to exchange credits with the retainer way before this point in the quest chain.
But as it stands, I cannot get the Exchange Credit prompts from my retainer on my second character at all, having tried to do it after the most recent Preview patch.
Might is not always right - the powerful sometimes forget that.
The Small BandThe commission for kits should be gold and the input costs should include a fixed amount of Astral Diamonds in addition to the other required inputs. This will make it so that we don't have a problem pertaining to artisans that have anywhere from -75% to +200% commission costs. That range of commission modifiers makes more sense when only applied to gold cost.
Caveat - I thought about this like 10 minutes ago and there may be something that makes what I am saying here a bad idea...but I cant of anything wrong with this idea at the moment.
I like it being less expensive to make these items. It means they will sell for less. I think this is good for the players overall.
Sorry I am not sure how to make the text red.
I am on the preview server acquiring artisans (artificers) and I am getting multiple copies of the same artisans. I got three Benedict Klaude, three Phelianna, two Brindi Goldsky, two Ergon Senriver, and two Junne Nightbloom. Can you use the same artisan twice or three times.
How do I attach images?
< font color=red> enter text here < /font>
Remember to remove the space after the first "<". You can change "red" to any color, e.g. cyan (for feedback).
To post pictures, upload your picture file on the internet (e.g. imgur) and then link it using the photo icon.
I have a wild suggestion, please:
Delay this thing for a week, and remove the entire focus, and +1 idea.
The two results from one task is a bad idea.
This is not streamlining, not simpler, this is also much less maintainable, you as devs need to maintain twice the items used in professions. Which means less likely to be maintained, and not as updated for new zones and new stuff.
Some things do not have a parallel +1, some focus is bugged, the entire production chain looks like an unholy mess if looked really carefully, and no simple craft cost estimation.
You want to make a hard reset on materials and the NPCs? Why?! Still +1 chains are not the answer, make +1 only base resources and for chance only, and maybe maybe craft-able supplements, here your favorite tripple RNG hiding.
But the two results from every task need to go away.
This is not streamlining, and not "made simpler", this is orders of magnitude more complex than the old system, with more points of failure, in terms of things not working correctly, broken recipe chains, unbalanced recipes, etc..
How you, as devs, can design a recipe or drop rates for materials or set focus, or predict the costs if the cost of crafting a result is cyclically depends on the market price of the complimentary result (regular on the +1 and vice versa) and this is for the whole chain of crafting..
I can understand, an idea is to sell Zen supplements or something, sell higher chance, dab hands, recycle, whatever... It can work almost as pres-wards for crafting.
But for now this system looks too complex in terms of maintenance, market prediction, recipe adjustment, dev time in making double items, debugging.
Even the UI is not suitable to show two results!
Please....
However IF i have a success and get a +1 result the MW4 quests do NOT recognise +1 items and as such are a failed result when trying to complete MW4 on any proffession.
This would also apply to ANY MW levels where the quests require crafted items to be handed in as they dont recognise +1 items for the quests.
Do no expect any changes. Have you seen a devs around here lately? No? Me neither
Expect all the bugs be tranfered on live.
No worries, legendary tool is a worthless piece of junk now (well almost). I guess in time they gona fix this bug and few others but in the meantime we gona have our fun struggling with workshop and crafting. And somehow I am cartain, that a list of bugs we gona find is going to be a lot longer then we thought.
https://imgur.com/a/XfSroWt
Sorry, I am having problems showing the images. The links seem to work.
1% of player will use it to its full potential ... perfect lets pile all dev resources into it *scratches head*
that is my 2 cents here in this thread folks as i have remained silent ..