A lot of people looking at the Leadership issue (becoming Gathering, crafting professions getting granted an equivalent level), but I don't understand what a lot of the fuss is about.
If you only did leadership, you don't get an equivalent crafting skill in return. That's fine. Those of us with alt armies of leadership drones got to reap a lot of rewards (AD, RP) for our efforts. People who *didn't* level Leadership didn't get that. Sure, they had a crafting skill - but if they did that, they almost certainly would have been gathering alongside it. Hence, they get Gathering at an equivalent level. There isn't going to be a whole lot of other benefit to the profession, so it makes logical sense -especially as the gathering and making are being separated out from individual professions.
I see other people complaining that they won't be able to Gather enough materials to keep their other professions fed?
Still. I don't think anyone's "getting screwed" by only getting Gathering for free, or by other people getting Gathering if they weren't using Leadership.
So basically you have people who bothered to raise an entire profession, one that I might add took me an entire year to raise and only on one character, and you are just giving away the equivalent amount of time invested of raising that to someone who raised some other profession, for absolutely nothing, free, here take it, its yours, enjoy.
How are some people not getting screwed?
Since nobody called you out on this, I will. You/somebody who only leveled leadership is not getting screwed if somebody else is getting levels in gathering in addition to the profession they had leveled. If I give you one ice cream and another player two ice creams you are not getting screwed. You just didn't get as much ice cream as the other player.
One thing to note is that you will get currency for all you Leadership Assets that you can use to buy Assets for any other Profession. So, if all you had was Leadership, you will still get a little head start with another Profession. And Gathering should still be profitable by selling the materials because the Gathering and crafting tasks all get delivered to the finite space of the Delivery Box and people will need more materials than they can Gather if they are trying to level up their Workshop and/or other Professions.
I actually won't be surprised if some players neglect leveling Gathering and just buy most of their Materials from other players.
I am going by what others have said but it sounds like if you have any other profession at max level you will get that profession at 70 AND you will get gathering free at 70 level as well.
The part about people neglecting Gathering is talking about people entering crafting in the future. So, yes a whole bunch of people will start with maxed Gathering, but after a few months I think Gathering will become a good Profession for making things to sell.
The other thing that I was trying to point out is that if you only have Leadership, you will still get a tiny bit of a head start towards another Profession through exchanging your Leadership Assets. In addition, if someone starts running deep gathering tasks on a Profession now they should be able to get another Profession pretty high if not maxed by the time this all launches.
This guy makes sense of it; you do get an advantage in other professions because you will have asset points to spend on assets for a brand new profession. And yes; players who leveled a different profession than leadership have the same advantage to get assets for gathering. one ice cream, two ice cream.
There are so many people in this thread complaining about this. I guess the guy saying leadership is disappearing and gathering is being added made the most sense, but I agree with the devs that leadership and gathering have the same idea/philosophy, so I do consider it a conversion. They just added a new link that you need gathering do to any other profession. Made it more important.
So, those people are mostly suggesting getting points or something so they can level up a different profession. My suggestion: If devs do want to cater to the people with leadership armies, it would make sense to give them jewelcrafting levels, since (according to this thread) that's where you can now make RP gems. It would work identical to platesmithing/mailsmithing: highest level old profession is used for the new profession. And now don't start complaining if you have leadership and jewelcrafting maxed and not other professions; I have not heard a single person in here complain about having mailsmithing and platesmithing maxed (and not other professions).
A lot of people looking at the Leadership issue (becoming Gathering, crafting professions getting granted an equivalent level), but I don't understand what a lot of the fuss is about.
If you only did leadership, you don't get an equivalent crafting skill in return. That's fine. Those of us with alt armies of leadership drones got to reap a lot of rewards (AD, RP) for our efforts. People who *didn't* level Leadership didn't get that. Sure, they had a crafting skill - but if they did that, they almost certainly would have been gathering alongside it. Hence, they get Gathering at an equivalent level. There isn't going to be a whole lot of other benefit to the profession, so it makes logical sense -especially as the gathering and making are being separated out from individual professions.
wellp, I was writing about that, but my comment disappeared after trying to edit a typo? My point was, you ARE getting a crafting skill in return for your leadership profession. You are not getting screwed over. Just that another player who leveled a different profession is getting two crafting skills instead of one. Both are getting something in return for their old professions, just that one is getting more than the other. And that's ok, because this makes sense for how the new system would work if you had used it from the beginning! A different point, while everybody is talking about 'losing their time in Leadership', I hear nobody complain about losing platesmithing or mailsmithing, which are being merged.
Almost forgot to add back my suggestion: Since so many people are asking for 'profession credits' for their leadership experience, if the devs want to cater to these players, they could give them jewelcrafting levels (since apparently that's where RP stones are made now), identical to how platesmithing and mailsmithing will work: highest level of jewelcrafting and leadership is used for the new jewelcrafting level.
On a recent 2X Crafting XP weekend, I levelled Jewelcrafting to 25 in the 4 days of the event plus a couple other runs of gem-making after that. I recall when I levelled Alchemy that that was also rather fast. I have levelled all the professions, and none of the others compared to the time and commitment needed for Leadership.
"But Leadership already paid off for you" is a straw-man argument. Not if you just levelled it a month ago. Not if you decided, after levelling it, that you don't want to grind your alts in professions anyway, because it is boring and distracts from other things. Not if you don't get to log in consistently multiple times per day. Besides, if you spent much less time and effort levelling another profession, then that profession also already paid off for you, right?
Leadership had more rewards because it took more effort. People bought slots, adventurers, spent resources and time to get those rewards. They did not exploit anything, it was a standard feature of the game.
Because "some people benefitted greatly from an alt army of Leaders" is no reason to screw over everyone who ever levelled leadership. That is a problem of the game design, created by the game developers. Not of the players who used a game feature as it was implemented.
The idea posted a couple pages back, that levels of Leadership would contribute to you buying at least an Epic or special quality gathering craftsman, has merit. Or, give anyone who levelled leadership a free, max level profession of their choice (or another profession at the converted level of whatever their Leadership level is). That is (somewhat) fair.
@asterdahl I appreciate your reply, and apologize if the question was already asked and answered earlier in the thread. I’m excited for the next update to the Preview server!
wellp, I was writing about that, but my comment disappeared after trying to edit a typo? My point was, you ARE getting a crafting skill in return for your leadership profession. You are not getting screwed over. Just that another player who leveled a different profession is getting two crafting skills instead of one. Both are getting something in return for their old professions, just that one is getting more than the other. And that's ok, because this makes sense for how the new system would work if you had used it from the beginning! A different point, while everybody is talking about 'losing their time in Leadership', I hear nobody complain about losing platesmithing or mailsmithing, which are being merged.
Almost forgot to add back my suggestion: Since so many people are asking for 'profession credits' for their leadership experience, if the devs want to cater to these players, they could give them jewelcrafting levels (since apparently that's where RP stones are made now), identical to how platesmithing and mailsmithing will work: highest level of jewelcrafting and leadership is used for the new jewelcrafting level.
Ok lets compare platesmithing is a net plus for everyone that had one not the other. For people who had both, it's no net loss as they still have both and still have the assets from both. What's more the value of either hasn't been changed at all.
The analogous situation would be if everyone got masterwork platesmithing and mailsmithing. Which would legitimately tick off people that went to the trouble of obtaining those so they could sell masterwork goods.
Now with leadership we are told the update is meant to encourage trading, and they are doing it by making certain everyone can gather all the raw mats they need ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
What's more to anyone who has leadership, well we have permanently flooded your market so don't even think about trying to make a profit of any kind by gathering.
Then there is the ridiculous statement some people keep making about "Players Making Money From Nothing". Everything in this game is value produced from nothing. You kill something you produce value out of thin air. The only difference is the method.
could we get a sticky for the "answers" so we can read consolidated section of topic? make a list that already answered. i get so sleepy reading due to sleep apnea and easily bored.
i have 1 question, can i keep old materials and wait for Mod 15 to trade in or they all go away and i lose everything?
i have 1 question, can i keep old materials and wait for Mod 15 to trade in or they all go away and i lose everything?
When Mod15 releases all of your current assets and the majority of your resources become useless and will need to be traded in for new assets and resources. So yes, hang on to what you have.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
wellp, I was writing about that, but my comment disappeared after trying to edit a typo? My point was, you ARE getting a crafting skill in return for your leadership profession. You are not getting screwed over. Just that another player who leveled a different profession is getting two crafting skills instead of one. Both are getting something in return for their old professions, just that one is getting more than the other. And that's ok, because this makes sense for how the new system would work if you had used it from the beginning! A different point, while everybody is talking about 'losing their time in Leadership', I hear nobody complain about losing platesmithing or mailsmithing, which are being merged.
Almost forgot to add back my suggestion: Since so many people are asking for 'profession credits' for their leadership experience, if the devs want to cater to these players, they could give them jewelcrafting levels (since apparently that's where RP stones are made now), identical to how platesmithing and mailsmithing will work: highest level of jewelcrafting and leadership is used for the new jewelcrafting level.
Then there is the ridiculous statement some people keep making about "Players Making Money From Nothing". Everything in this game is value produced from nothing. You kill something you produce value out of thin air. The only difference is the method.
It's a question of scale. If you can't tell the difference between doing quests, and clicking a handful of buttons in a stationary UI, I don't know what to tell ya.
A minor suggestion: please consider adding Golem Crafting.
Use each profession to craft the individual Golem parts, then assemble the Golem that can be slotted into a potion slot. Think of it as a disposable single-use companion you can craft and summon over and above your current summoned companion. (Each Golem lasting until HP reaches zero.)
Different parts can be used to craft different Golem, for example:
I suggest this because I find that the professions system doesn't really provide anything genuinely useful or worthwhile crafting repeatedly beyond a certain level in the game.
"Talent is a flame. Genius is a fire." - Sir Bernard Williams
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
A minor suggestion: please consider adding Golem Crafting.
Use each profession to craft the individual Golem parts, then assemble the Golem that can be slotted into a potion slot. Think of it as a disposable single-use companion you can craft and summon over and above your current summoned companion. (Each Golem lasting until HP reaches zero.)
Different parts can be used to craft different Golem, for example:
I suggest this because I find that the professions system doesn't really provide anything genuinely useful or worthwhile crafting repeatedly beyond a certain level in the game.
I don't really see a golem replacing a potion slot as being in line with the game balance, but crafting based companions sounds like a great idea, especially if it leads to better augment companions. Down with bonding runestones! Booo! Boooooooo!
A minor suggestion: please consider adding Golem Crafting.
Use each profession to craft the individual Golem parts, then assemble the Golem that can be slotted into a potion slot. Think of it as a disposable single-use companion you can craft and summon over and above your current summoned companion. (Each Golem lasting until HP reaches zero.)
Different parts can be used to craft different Golem, for example:
I suggest this because I find that the professions system doesn't really provide anything genuinely useful or worthwhile crafting repeatedly beyond a certain level in the game.
Well, the Soul Puppet for SW is an example of an additional companion that dies - I think the idea has merit!
Might is not always right - the powerful sometimes forget that.
I did not see any response to my question. If this information was already discussed, I did not see it.
Where will we be able to get enchanting stones from?
Currently most of the green and blue ones come from Leadership Tasks and the rank 21 - 25 coffers, caches and such, and purple ones are a very rare reward from Enchanted Coffer (Rank 23 and Rank 25 Leadership tasks). I did not see anywhere to buy and I did not see a profession task that rewards one. If these are no longer available in the professions, then will we have to buy them after the mod?
Hi so I have a question about the Astral Diamond Crates and Corvee labor that we generated out from Leadership... We leveled up Leadership to 23 and above to be able to generate these items for the guild... and since you vaporized leadership these items will be done by the other professions... if I am a player that only leveled leadership then I essentially do not have the any ability anymore to generate these items because I do not have any other profession that will be at the high level required in making these tasks. I think it will only be fair to think about how this can be addressed if the player only leveled leadership. I hope I make sense.
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zephyriahMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,980Arc User
Hi so I have a question about the Astral Diamond Crates and Corvee labor that we generated out from Leadership... We leveled up Leadership to 23 and above to be able to generate these items for the guild... and since you vaporized leadership these items will be done by the other professions... if I am a player that only leveled leadership then I essentially do not have the any ability anymore to generate these items because I do not have any other profession that will be at the high level required in making these tasks. I think it will only be fair to think about how this can be addressed if the player only leveled leadership. I hope I make sense.
That's a fair question and it may not really matter if someone only leveled leadership. If a person leveled other professions (at least to 20) as most with leadership armies did to unlock 9 slots, it is still an issue if one of the additional professions leveled is not where the task was moved.
If the crate tasks mentioned are removed from the game, all's fair and no issue. But if those crates are moved to another profession or are not a part of gathering, anyone with leadership maxed should also get that additional profession at the level required to craft those crates.
Hi so I have a question about the Astral Diamond Crates and Corvee labor that we generated out from Leadership... We leveled up Leadership to 23 and above to be able to generate these items for the guild... and since you vaporized leadership these items will be done by the other professions... if I am a player that only leveled leadership then I essentially do not have the any ability anymore to generate these items because I do not have any other profession that will be at the high level required in making these tasks. I think it will only be fair to think about how this can be addressed if the player only leveled leadership. I hope I make sense.
It's been answered before: The crate tasks WILL be part of the new system, they're just not on preview yet because they're not ready. They'll be there before Live.
And your Leadership 25 will translate to Gathering 70, which is pretty decent, even if it's not "Leadership 25" profitable any more. You might have to level other professions for your stronghold loot, but at least you can trade Leadership assets and products for credit towards other profession people if you want that.
Hi so I have a question about the Astral Diamond Crates and Corvee labor that we generated out from Leadership... We leveled up Leadership to 23 and above to be able to generate these items for the guild... and since you vaporized leadership these items will be done by the other professions... if I am a player that only leveled leadership then I essentially do not have the any ability anymore to generate these items because I do not have any other profession that will be at the high level required in making these tasks. I think it will only be fair to think about how this can be addressed if the player only leveled leadership. I hope I make sense.
It's been answered before: The crate tasks WILL be part of the new system, they're just not on preview yet because they're not ready. They'll be there before Live.
And your Leadership 25 will translate to Gathering 70, which is pretty decent, even if it's not "Leadership 25" profitable any more. You might have to level other professions for your stronghold loot, but at least you can trade Leadership assets and products for credit towards other profession people if you want that.
funny can't see any shadow of being able to do that on the preview server
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zephyriahMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,980Arc User
Hi so I have a question about the Astral Diamond Crates and Corvee labor that we generated out from Leadership... We leveled up Leadership to 23 and above to be able to generate these items for the guild... and since you vaporized leadership these items will be done by the other professions... if I am a player that only leveled leadership then I essentially do not have the any ability anymore to generate these items because I do not have any other profession that will be at the high level required in making these tasks. I think it will only be fair to think about how this can be addressed if the player only leveled leadership. I hope I make sense.
It's been answered before: The crate tasks WILL be part of the new system, they're just not on preview yet because they're not ready. They'll be there before Live.
And your Leadership 25 will translate to Gathering 70, which is pretty decent, even if it's not "Leadership 25" profitable any more. You might have to level other professions for your stronghold loot, but at least you can trade Leadership assets and products for credit towards other profession people if you want that.
That's not the issue. The question is not about being added to preview. The question is which profession will get the tasks that were in leadership? Gathering or a different one? If it is a different one, shouldn't anyone with leadership at 25 get that profession at max level, or at least at what ever level it takes to craft the crates, like others will get gathering at max if they maxed another profession?
It would not be fair to move the crates to another profession and not provide a way for someone who already had the ability to craft them to start over. If they crates will be added to gathering, then no harm no foul. If the crates are removed from the game, again no harm no foul. But based on previous comments the crates will remain, it does not appear gathering is going to provide any finished products. So, the crates will likely be elsewhere and that will be an issue. Anything that was craftable in leadership and is remaining in the game, should be available to all players who could previously craft them and they need to provide that method if they had not considered doing it.
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
WARNING:
@asterdal why are my live artisan trasnformed into bill and not into new artisans contracts, those only exchange for currency to buy tools or materials not their respective quality artisan, you are making us buy better artisans all over again, btw when is the next update to profession on preview?
As a long time player, I'm trying to see the this with as open a mind as possible. Yes, boys, girls, and others - it's time for Cthon's Wall O' Text! (skip to the brightly colored text for the meat 'n potatoes, the rest is opinion and "stuff")
Up front, I do like the new interface. It actually feels like I'm accomplishing things as I'm working on levelling up professions. I like the fact that I can now "level up" my workers. I think the look and feel actually makes it feel like I'm running a tradeshop. I feel like I actually have options to do "stuff" instead of having a limited number of options because anything else is less than viable (ie, variety of tasks to engage in). I can not WAIT until more things are loaded and the fixups are in place.
Maybe I'm weird, but I've always *enjoyed* the tradeskill aspect of the various MMO's I've played, and this is one area that I've candidly felt that NWO was lacking in. Many of the prior MMO's I've played made it worthwhile to tradeskill - anything from making bags for my lewts (hint hint, @asterdahl - yeah, I know.. won't happen, but a dragon can dreeeeeam), to making arrows that let the archer players do more damage, crafting stat foods (bat wing crunchies, anyone?), you name it.
I mean, you're talking to a guy who stayed logged in for nearly a day and a half to level up jewelry making in EQ to make his guildies rings for our first PoF raid, lol
So, I for one, welcome the change. And I hope that this new version will open the door to giving us some of those options. I'd love to see the day when I can make raid foods... or craft whetstones to temporarily increase my weapon damage. So maybe one day, I'll be able to "play the way *I* want" without some people looking down their long noses on my choice of stress relief.
And honestly.. I swore to myself that I wouldn't touch this topic, but I am.. I do resent those people who so vehemently want to tell *me* how I "should play". It is neither your, nor my, right or duty to tell someone how to manage their pixels. So, please - I respect your right to run around and do dungeons as often as you want. Respect my right to engage in other forms of "game play" that don't necessarily line up with yours when I feel like playing master craftsman If I want to invest my time, my money (both virtual and real), in a fashion that gives me fulfillment in a manner different than yours - that's my business. Just as it's not my business to look down upon you for wanting to roleplay in the Mask, or hammer out the same dungeon day after day. What you are doing, by denigrating what I do when I log in, is akin to the people who stand around and point and mock when your favorite class gets nerfed hard. Are you also going to tell me what build I should use? Or dictate to me what race I should make the class you "think" I should "be playing"?
You see, I also use all those Leadership alts you want to revile me for to help my guildies refine their new artifacts and enchants after hitting 70 to help them avoid being told to "git gud" while trying to gather up all those tens of thousands of RP they need.... to help level up my guilds Stronghold...as contest incentives... barter for things like Hunt Posters, Lure components (gasp - to help my guildies again). Not everyone who has several Leadership toons is trying to topple the economy As a tenured player, I like to try and help my newer guildmates - it makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Candidly, I'm glad that I'll be able to garner most, if not all, of those same results without having to spend as much time mindlessly reloading 7 or 9 tradeskill slots over... and over... and over, lol. Now I can work on costuming my toons! (Oh, wait - is that not an acceptable way to play, either?)
That being said.... I can *sorta* get behind Leadership being changed into something else. Fine, let it be a feeder profession called Gathering now. That's cool.
What I *do* have a little trouble swallowing is the perceived punishment that people who invested more heavily into Leadership are "receiving". If Leadership is now Gathering, then great - fine. Here's my thoughts, and perhaps an acceptable compromise.
In response to the "as someone levelled up one tradeskill, they would have..." approach - ok. One would assume that an alchemist would have had some basic experience in gathering his herbs, etc. A smith would have had some experience in selecting his materials, knowing where the best "metal" came from, what have you.
However, that's NOT the same as someone who, let's say, "specialized" in finding and acquiring those raw materials. Sure, a leatherworker might have the basics of say, skinning common livestock to make workaday leather - but would they *really* have the same experience as a forager who has spent time learning where Ye Fabled Beasties dwell, hunting them, trapping them, etc to get that lovely Dire Wolf Pelt (or whatever)? Of course not.
And let's be honest - Leadership takes FOREVER to level up, it should have a higher ROI into Gathering than any other profession.
My recommendation(s) would be as follows: Option 1 (Ez Mode): Your max profession is what would be "considered" for the new Gathering professions level. If your max profession is NOT Leadership, then you will receive Gathering at 1/2 your "highest" profession - as you're a generalist in "gathering" stuff pursuant to your trade, and are more advanced in "processing" it in your chosen profession. After all, a smith isn't going to know much about trapping rare animals and skinning them, anymore than a leatherworker is going to know how to mine or smelt adamantine ore from the dark depths of Moria, right? BUT... a smith might have some *basic* skills in tanning to make leather for shield covers... you get the gist, yes?
Option 2 (More "realistic"): Add all profession levels (non Leadership) together at 1/4 their current level. That number is added to whatever Leadership levels you have (if any), to determine your Gathering skill. This is representative of the skills your character would have "acquired" in levelling up his specific trades, and rewards those who have spent some time working in Leadership but haven't maxed it as they may have been working in other professions first.
For either option: Move *all* the Stronghold support tasks into Gathering (if you hadn't already planned it). Your "adventurers" could be out posting signs to attract "labor" for your stronghold (Corvee Labor replacement), or working with your Strongholds Master of Coin to "gather taxes" (AD chest replacement).. etc, ad nauseum.
I did not see this question asked or answered, if it was I apologize in advance........what is going to happen to the profession boxes we get from lockboxes?? they currently give green to purple assets and profession people, will those go away, turn into credits like our current workers are or change to just assets for the new system????
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
Bug maybe: @asterdahl was crafting items that go to inv and when my inv got full i transformed those items in rp, went back to crafting and the craft option was not highlited, and i had all items needed to craft, noticed its caused by overflow bag items
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lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
I know that I am probably talking into the wind here with the sheer volume of responses on this thread, but hopefully this doesn’t fall on deaf ears…
1. Overall as a long time professions user and master crafter I am loving the changes to professions, and really look forward to seeing some of the final changes in place; so kudos to the entire design and dev team!
2. I would ask that the maximum size of the delivery box be greatly increased. Many of us work full time jobs, which severely limits our ability to login in to the game to empty the delivery box. This mean that we are at a disadvantage to players that could be potentially spending less overall time on the game but are able to log in every few hours to empty the delivery box. In my opinion the delivery box should be able to hold about 20-22 hours’ worth of gathered and crafted items with all slots active
3. One of the big bottle necks to master crafting wasn’t the high cost to entry, it was the high cost to compete with the handful of users that had access to the extremely rare legendary tools, this meant that a small number of players could cost everyone else who invested into the system out of the market creating a monopoly. Whatever the final changes to master crafting, they need to be more than an AD sink, but they also need to be leveled so that any player can make a reasonable investment and be rewarded without the fear of futility because a few players have lucky RNG, or hundreds of millions in AD.
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
I think it is important that Master Crafting remain elite crafting, difficult, expensive and not for all. If it is not, cancel Master Crafting and use only normal professions. If it is easy and for all, there is no more need of it.
I noticed that when one of my gatherers came back, and an artisan was at the drinking table, I suddenly had a doppleganger! The artisan at the table turned into the same gatherer (the 'real' gatherer ran to Delivery Box as normal)!
Noticed that the value for the Alchemy items (Vitriol) were trading in at the same rate as the raw material used to create them. To me they should represent a higher trade in value, or at least the sum of the base ingredients - For example, Polluted Green Vitriol is one MEC (Material Exchange Value), the same as Simple Pelt, Pine Wood, solvent, etc at 1 MEC each, so Polluted Green Vitriol should be 4 MEC, IMHO, with the other higher tier Vitriol even more...
I would also recommend a button Sell All for the old professions trade in, so we do not have to click through all items... Just have a warning that you should move what you want to an appropriate toon, as the credits are BtC plus having to type in sell or something to confirm it.
Need a notification of a fail - when I cancelled a repeat assignment after the timer completed on the gathering task (well water), I did not receive it in the Delivery Box - not sure if it was a bug, cancelling straight after finishing (but it had started the timer for the next one), or a real fail, hence no reward. Also no logged event for spent coin per job (or any resources used for that matter). I am guessing a bug, as I also did not receive the notice [System Notify] Completed assignment "Well Water." on reviewing the log - or does that only show on a success?
Adepts Tea (18 Alch) provides the same proficiency as Balm (10 Alch). Also Workman's Poultice (28 Alch) is only 16 proficiency, etc. up the ladder. The proficiency 'bonus' is not proportional / commensurate with expended resources/risk of failure.
Query - Crafters for special events - Simril, Summer, etc. - are they all intended to be transformed - ie, every asset, whether labour or tool in the old professions, is useless in the new one?
I do wonder as well about the need to exchange some old ingredients like Aberrant Leather, Quicksilver and such - they are the same in the new as old...
I very much like the work that has gone into the design of this, but I can see the Alt army now producing resources to feed the primary - both in gathering, and the base-level crafted items to use in the higher tier crafting. Gold of course the limiting factor for that, I guess we will have to see what drops are in the new Mod.
Might is not always right - the powerful sometimes forget that.
As I said before about people with tons of gold. They apparently ae not trying to level a guild. People that are leveling guilds spend lots of gold as I do. Guilds getting screwed again.
I don't run out of gold. I have gold gobbling gloves (Cambist's) , yes, still. I finished a GH20 with them on last November and currently have started a new Guild 5 weeks ago. We are only 8 members and just gathering shards for GH7. Gold is not an issue, even when we get to higher levels. You just have to be disciplined in gathering that gold. I pick up everything when running solo. Everything. I sell it for gold. On average, with my gloves consuming Silver at a high rate as most TRs do... I walk away with about 90-100 per day, on just that character. Granted that is with professions as well but I don't slot in much gold-producing professions. There are many ways in the game to produce gold and they are not at all related to any content that is changing. Keep an open mind. I do agree though, some of the new content gold costs are a little off the mark and am hopeful that they will be adjusted. Have a great day!
As I said before about people with tons of gold. They apparently ae not trying to level a guild. People that are leveling guilds spend lots of gold as I do. Guilds getting screwed again.
I don't run out of gold. I have gold gobbling gloves (Cambist's) , yes, still. I finished a GH20 with them on last November and currently have started a new Guild 5 weeks ago. We are only 8 members and just gathering shards for GH7. Gold is not an issue, even when we get to higher levels. You just have to be disciplined in gathering that gold. I pick up everything when running solo. Everything. I sell it for gold. On average, with my gloves consuming Silver at a high rate as most TRs do... I walk away with about 90-100 per day, on just that character. Granted that is with professions as well but I don't slot in much gold-producing professions. There are many ways in the game to produce gold and they are not at all related to any content that is changing. Keep an open mind. I do agree though, some of the new content gold costs are a little off the mark and am hopeful that they will be adjusted. Have a great day!
And yes I do loot everything and sell. Gold isn't a problem now but will be with changes. And not everyone will be playing 16 hours a day like you do with 13 characters. Enough said
Comments
If you only did leadership, you don't get an equivalent crafting skill in return. That's fine. Those of us with alt armies of leadership drones got to reap a lot of rewards (AD, RP) for our efforts. People who *didn't* level Leadership didn't get that. Sure, they had a crafting skill - but if they did that, they almost certainly would have been gathering alongside it. Hence, they get Gathering at an equivalent level. There isn't going to be a whole lot of other benefit to the profession, so it makes logical sense -especially as the gathering and making are being separated out from individual professions.
There are so many people in this thread complaining about this. I guess the guy saying leadership is disappearing and gathering is being added made the most sense, but I agree with the devs that leadership and gathering have the same idea/philosophy, so I do consider it a conversion. They just added a new link that you need gathering do to any other profession. Made it more important.
So, those people are mostly suggesting getting points or something so they can level up a different profession. My suggestion: If devs do want to cater to the people with leadership armies, it would make sense to give them jewelcrafting levels, since (according to this thread) that's where you can now make RP gems. It would work identical to platesmithing/mailsmithing: highest level old profession is used for the new profession. And now don't start complaining if you have leadership and jewelcrafting maxed and not other professions; I have not heard a single person in here complain about having mailsmithing and platesmithing maxed (and not other professions).
Almost forgot to add back my suggestion: Since so many people are asking for 'profession credits' for their leadership experience, if the devs want to cater to these players, they could give them jewelcrafting levels (since apparently that's where RP stones are made now), identical to how platesmithing and mailsmithing will work: highest level of jewelcrafting and leadership is used for the new jewelcrafting level.
"But Leadership already paid off for you" is a straw-man argument. Not if you just levelled it a month ago. Not if you decided, after levelling it, that you don't want to grind your alts in professions anyway, because it is boring and distracts from other things. Not if you don't get to log in consistently multiple times per day. Besides, if you spent much less time and effort levelling another profession, then that profession also already paid off for you, right?
Leadership had more rewards because it took more effort. People bought slots, adventurers, spent resources and time to get those rewards. They did not exploit anything, it was a standard feature of the game.
Because "some people benefitted greatly from an alt army of Leaders" is no reason to screw over everyone who ever levelled leadership. That is a problem of the game design, created by the game developers. Not of the players who used a game feature as it was implemented.
The idea posted a couple pages back, that levels of Leadership would contribute to you buying at least an Epic or special quality gathering craftsman, has merit. Or, give anyone who levelled leadership a free, max level profession of their choice (or another profession at the converted level of whatever their Leadership level is). That is (somewhat) fair.
The analogous situation would be if everyone got masterwork platesmithing and mailsmithing. Which would legitimately tick off people that went to the trouble of obtaining those so they could sell masterwork goods.
Now with leadership we are told the update is meant to encourage trading, and they are doing it by making certain everyone can gather all the raw mats they need ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
What's more to anyone who has leadership, well we have permanently flooded your market so don't even think about trying to make a profit of any kind by gathering.
Then there is the ridiculous statement some people keep making about "Players Making Money From Nothing". Everything in this game is value produced from
nothing. You kill something you produce value out of thin air. The only difference is the method.
i have 1 question, can i keep old materials and wait for Mod 15 to trade in or they all go away and i lose everything?
speed multiplier increases ---- time to produce decreases
commission multiplier increases ----- cost to produce increases
somehow I would expect a 50% speed multiplier to mean artisan finished in 1/2 the time, but it means he takes twice as long
When Mod15 releases all of your current assets and the majority of your resources become useless and will need to be traded in for new assets and resources. So yes, hang on to what you have.
Use each profession to craft the individual Golem parts, then assemble the Golem that can be slotted into a potion slot. Think of it as a disposable single-use companion you can craft and summon over and above your current summoned companion. (Each Golem lasting until HP reaches zero.)
Different parts can be used to craft different Golem, for example:
Onyx Golem - Tank
Ruby Golem - Striker
Sapphire Golem - Controller
Emerald Golem - Leader
Diamond Golem - Augment
I suggest this because I find that the professions system doesn't really provide anything genuinely useful or worthwhile crafting repeatedly beyond a certain level in the game.
Might is not always right - the powerful sometimes forget that.
The Small BandWhere will we be able to get enchanting stones from?
Currently most of the green and blue ones come from Leadership Tasks and the rank 21 - 25 coffers, caches and such, and purple ones are a very rare reward from Enchanted Coffer (Rank 23 and Rank 25 Leadership tasks). I did not see anywhere to buy and I did not see a profession task that rewards one. If these are no longer available in the professions, then will we have to buy them after the mod?
If the crate tasks mentioned are removed from the game, all's fair and no issue. But if those crates are moved to another profession or are not a part of gathering, anyone with leadership maxed should also get that additional profession at the level required to craft those crates.
And your Leadership 25 will translate to Gathering 70, which is pretty decent, even if it's not "Leadership 25" profitable any more. You might have to level other professions for your stronghold loot, but at least you can trade Leadership assets and products for credit towards other profession people if you want that.
It would not be fair to move the crates to another profession and not provide a way for someone who already had the ability to craft them to start over. If they crates will be added to gathering, then no harm no foul. If the crates are removed from the game, again no harm no foul. But based on previous comments the crates will remain, it does not appear gathering is going to provide any finished products. So, the crates will likely be elsewhere and that will be an issue. Anything that was craftable in leadership and is remaining in the game, should be available to all players who could previously craft them and they need to provide that method if they had not considered doing it.
@asterdal why are my live artisan trasnformed into bill and not into new artisans contracts, those only exchange for currency to buy tools or materials not their respective quality artisan, you are making us buy better artisans all over again, btw when is the next update to profession on preview?
Up front, I do like the new interface. It actually feels like I'm accomplishing things as I'm working on levelling up professions. I like the fact that I can now "level up" my workers. I think the look and feel actually makes it feel like I'm running a tradeshop. I feel like I actually have options to do "stuff" instead of having a limited number of options because anything else is less than viable (ie, variety of tasks to engage in). I can not WAIT until more things are loaded and the fixups are in place.
Maybe I'm weird, but I've always *enjoyed* the tradeskill aspect of the various MMO's I've played, and this is one area that I've candidly felt that NWO was lacking in. Many of the prior MMO's I've played made it worthwhile to tradeskill - anything from making bags for my lewts (hint hint, @asterdahl - yeah, I know.. won't happen, but a dragon can dreeeeeam), to making arrows that let the archer players do more damage, crafting stat foods (bat wing crunchies, anyone?), you name it.
I mean, you're talking to a guy who stayed logged in for nearly a day and a half to level up jewelry making in EQ to make his guildies rings for our first PoF raid, lol
So, I for one, welcome the change. And I hope that this new version will open the door to giving us some of those options. I'd love to see the day when I can make raid foods... or craft whetstones to temporarily increase my weapon damage. So maybe one day, I'll be able to "play the way *I* want" without some people looking down their long noses on my choice of stress relief.
And honestly.. I swore to myself that I wouldn't touch this topic, but I am.. I do resent those people who so vehemently want to tell *me* how I "should play". It is neither your, nor my, right or duty to tell someone how to manage their pixels. So, please - I respect your right to run around and do dungeons as often as you want. Respect my right to engage in other forms of "game play" that don't necessarily line up with yours when I feel like playing master craftsman
You see, I also use all those Leadership alts you want to revile me for to help my guildies refine their new artifacts and enchants after hitting 70 to help them avoid being told to "git gud" while trying to gather up all those tens of thousands of RP they need.... to help level up my guilds Stronghold...as contest incentives... barter for things like Hunt Posters, Lure components (gasp - to help my guildies again). Not everyone who has several Leadership toons is trying to topple the economy
Candidly, I'm glad that I'll be able to garner most, if not all, of those same results without having to spend as much time mindlessly reloading 7 or 9 tradeskill slots over... and over... and over, lol. Now I can work on costuming my toons! (Oh, wait - is that not an acceptable way to play, either?)
That being said....
I can *sorta* get behind Leadership being changed into something else. Fine, let it be a feeder profession called Gathering now. That's cool.
What I *do* have a little trouble swallowing is the perceived punishment that people who invested more heavily into Leadership are "receiving". If Leadership is now Gathering, then great - fine. Here's my thoughts, and perhaps an acceptable compromise.
In response to the "as someone levelled up one tradeskill, they would have..." approach - ok. One would assume that an alchemist would have had some basic experience in gathering his herbs, etc. A smith would have had some experience in selecting his materials, knowing where the best "metal" came from, what have you.
However, that's NOT the same as someone who, let's say, "specialized" in finding and acquiring those raw materials. Sure, a leatherworker might have the basics of say, skinning common livestock to make workaday leather - but would they *really* have the same experience as a forager who has spent time learning where Ye Fabled Beasties dwell, hunting them, trapping them, etc to get that lovely Dire Wolf Pelt (or whatever)? Of course not.
And let's be honest - Leadership takes FOREVER to level up, it should have a higher ROI into Gathering than any other profession.
My recommendation(s) would be as follows:
Option 1 (Ez Mode):
Your max profession is what would be "considered" for the new Gathering professions level. If your max profession is NOT Leadership, then you will receive Gathering at 1/2 your "highest" profession - as you're a generalist in "gathering" stuff pursuant to your trade, and are more advanced in "processing" it in your chosen profession. After all, a smith isn't going to know much about trapping rare animals and skinning them, anymore than a leatherworker is going to know how to mine or smelt adamantine ore from the dark depths of Moria, right? BUT... a smith might have some *basic* skills in tanning to make leather for shield covers... you get the gist, yes?
Option 2 (More "realistic"):
Add all profession levels (non Leadership) together at 1/4 their current level. That number is added to whatever Leadership levels you have (if any), to determine your Gathering skill. This is representative of the skills your character would have "acquired" in levelling up his specific trades, and rewards those who have spent some time working in Leadership but haven't maxed it as they may have been working in other professions first.
For either option:
Move *all* the Stronghold support tasks into Gathering (if you hadn't already planned it). Your "adventurers" could be out posting signs to attract "labor" for your stronghold (Corvee Labor replacement), or working with your Strongholds Master of Coin to "gather taxes" (AD chest replacement).. etc, ad nauseum.
Everyone wins.
@asterdahl
was crafting items that go to inv and when my inv got full i transformed those items in rp, went back to crafting and the craft option was not highlited, and i had all items needed to craft, noticed its caused by overflow bag items
1. Overall as a long time professions user and master crafter I am loving the changes to professions, and really look forward to seeing some of the final changes in place; so kudos to the entire design and dev team!
2. I would ask that the maximum size of the delivery box be greatly increased. Many of us work full time jobs, which severely limits our ability to login in to the game to empty the delivery box. This mean that we are at a disadvantage to players that could be potentially spending less overall time on the game but are able to log in every few hours to empty the delivery box. In my opinion the delivery box should be able to hold about 20-22 hours’ worth of gathered and crafted items with all slots active
3. One of the big bottle necks to master crafting wasn’t the high cost to entry, it was the high cost to compete with the handful of users that had access to the extremely rare legendary tools, this meant that a small number of players could cost everyone else who invested into the system out of the market creating a monopoly. Whatever the final changes to master crafting, they need to be more than an AD sink, but they also need to be leveled so that any player can make a reasonable investment and be rewarded without the fear of futility because a few players have lucky RNG, or hundreds of millions in AD.
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"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Noticed that the value for the Alchemy items (Vitriol) were trading in at the same rate as the raw material used to create them. To me they should represent a higher trade in value, or at least the sum of the base ingredients - For example, Polluted Green Vitriol is one MEC (Material Exchange Value), the same as Simple Pelt, Pine Wood, solvent, etc at 1 MEC each, so Polluted Green Vitriol should be 4 MEC, IMHO, with the other higher tier Vitriol even more...
I would also recommend a button Sell All for the old professions trade in, so we do not have to click through all items... Just have a warning that you should move what you want to an appropriate toon, as the credits are BtC plus having to type in sell or something to confirm it.
Need a notification of a fail - when I cancelled a repeat assignment after the timer completed on the gathering task (well water), I did not receive it in the Delivery Box - not sure if it was a bug, cancelling straight after finishing (but it had started the timer for the next one), or a real fail, hence no reward. Also no logged event for spent coin per job (or any resources used for that matter). I am guessing a bug, as I also did not receive the notice [System Notify] Completed assignment "Well Water." on reviewing the log - or does that only show on a success?
Adepts Tea (18 Alch) provides the same proficiency as Balm (10 Alch). Also Workman's Poultice (28 Alch) is only 16 proficiency, etc. up the ladder. The proficiency 'bonus' is not proportional / commensurate with expended resources/risk of failure.
Query - Crafters for special events - Simril, Summer, etc. - are they all intended to be transformed - ie, every asset, whether labour or tool in the old professions, is useless in the new one?
I do wonder as well about the need to exchange some old ingredients like Aberrant Leather, Quicksilver and such - they are the same in the new as old...
I very much like the work that has gone into the design of this, but I can see the Alt army now producing resources to feed the primary - both in gathering, and the base-level crafted items to use in the higher tier crafting. Gold of course the limiting factor for that, I guess we will have to see what drops are in the new Mod.
Might is not always right - the powerful sometimes forget that.
The Small BandThis is nothing compared to the discussions going on but maybe add it to their "nit" list.