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M15: Devoted Cleric Class Changes

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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited October 2018

    "Terrifying Insight: Seeing the inevitable destruction of your foes, you deal 10/15/20/25% more damage. Damaging an enemy also lowers their damage resistance by 4/6/8/10% for 5 seconds" --> I would prefer you reverse it to an increase of allies' damage by 10% instead of a damage resistance debuff, it would be a better compromise because POD is also nerfed.

    The other changes are ok. Overall, the changes are just going to upset speed-runners. The dungeons will still be completed.

    I am sure that DOs will still be requested despite the 'nerf", given that most of the ACs can cover the double daily, and given that DOs still have a weaker version of POD and have a quicker rotation in general.

    It will just give more opportunities to other buff-able classes.

    Now, you can put your thumbs down :D


    As far as I understood TI will buff for 25% (self) and buff group for 10% in mod 15, allready mentioned in this thread, the debuff should be a buff when mod 15 hits.

    Actually comparison of a DO-DC and a Templock:

    lordtweety#3604 said: And if that is what you want your toon to be, make a Paladin or Cleric.
    @bellkazi : "That is the problem.I have DC. I don't need support SW.
    Hallowed Ground(35%), Break the Spirit (21%), Divine Glow (12.5%) , Terrifying Insight (10% in M15) VS Pillar of Power (18%) and Soul Bonding (20%).
    Mulitplier 2.02>1.42
    Powerbuffs: Weapons of Light >> Dark Revelry
    Bear Your Sins(10%)+Condemning Gaze(15%)+Divine Glow(17.5%)+Prophecy of Doom(12.5%) VS Dreadtheft(25%)+Pillar of Power(10%)+Aura of Despair(5%)
    debuffs 55% > 15-40%
    Damage Temptation=Damage DO in M14
    Damage Temptation < Damage DO in M15 "


    If you add an AC DC it´s:
    buffs: DO 1.485 > temp 1.42
    debuff: 20% < 15% - 40% (when DR up)
    powerbuff WoL (since not stacking) < Dark revelry (+20% basepower)

    DO is flexible by running PoD+DL+xy (dps/heal/mitigation) and should deal definitely more dps than a templock.
    PoD deletes it´s own proc getting reapplied somehow, that should be addressed.
    DO is better than all 2. rate buffer in terms of buffs, better than a tact GF in debuffs.
    He can go support on top, if he consequently denies to go dps -> AP gain and encounter reset (GoH+hastening light).
    The gap between 2. rate buffer is closer. Every DC can decide to run meta-powerbuffer setup on top.

    .... I'd still change TI to something like 15% group buff / 25% personal buff simply due to the fact teams run with one sole DC as DO and those teams literally did nothing to deserve a nerf to buff which is already lower then other party compositions. 2 DC runs will be less and less due to the changes to FF as well as other classes embracing DPS buff builds and hopefully receiving some improvements to utility and damage mitigation.


    Wich party compositions do you talk of?

    1. leader, 1. tank , 3 dps setup:
    Devo OP + protOP <<<< DO-DC + prot OP (buff 2.02 vs 1.33, debuffs 55% vs 30%) powerbuffs DO > devoOP (bypassed by prot)
    Devo-OP + tact GF << DO-DC + tact GF (buff 2.02 vs 1.33, debuffs 55% vs 30%), powerbuffs -OP >DO

    Other compositions like:
    AC-DC + prot OP > DO-DC + prot OP (at singel target imo, AC slower on trash)
    AC-DC + Tact GF > DO-DC + Tact GF (at singel target imo, AC slower on trash)
    AC-DC + prot OP >>>> DevoOP + prot OP
    AC-DC + tact GF >> DevoOP+Tact GF

    Now we talk about meta runs (hdps GF's excludet):
    GF(tact) + OP (devo) + AC/DC + hdps + 2. rate buffer
    *2. rate buffer in general are: CW-mof, GF(tact), Hunter, templock, DO-DC (in double DC setup)

    DO x 1.485, debuffs 20%
    GF x 1.35, debuffs 18%
    CW x 1.3 (uptime?), debuffs 70% ?
    Hunter x 1.4, debuffs 35%
    templock x 1.42, debuffs 15-40% - averaged 27,5%

    DO-DC has best buffs, mediocre debuffs, and dps will be better than Hunter, templock, tact GF and rene mof in mod 15 as 2.rate buffer, any questions?
    Your proposals widen a gap again, that needs to be closed !
    Ac with perfect ap gain can do aa when need( companions to get buff is enough) and then spam hallowed ground +bleesing the battle.

    You said about slow on thrash :P the buff from aa and hallowed ground together you dont need to cast empower spirit.


    ABout templock he debuffs a lot faster than a do dc and keep the debuffs easier than a dc.
    Templock deals a lot damage while buffing-debuffing and he do it faster than a do.
    IF you want to play with daunting light then and sw will go fury to be both dps .
    It´s completely the other way, you are wrong.
    1/5 into Fire of the gods will proc Bear Your sins in a second from DG or Chains, Sunburst, Searing Light etc., it does actually not work with DL somehow.
    Like @belkazi said -> 1xDG = instant 27,5% debuff

    Another mysterium, wich is like this since a pretty long time now -> Condemning Gaze
    One aoe into a mobgroup hitting 5 mobs at once leads to an instant debuff of 15% ->CG instant up !
    Hitting 2 mobs it´s two stacks on both of them, hitting 3 mobs it´s 3 etc.

    In other words, cast DG +chains and you will debuff everything inside that aoe in maybe 1,5 seconds for 42,5% !
    Or simply cast one devine Searing Light into that mobs (you only need to hit 2 mobs) and debuff the hole group for 25%, if you like to do it that way, since that devine encounter double hits mobs in 15'. That way you can even debuff 3 mobs at once for 25%, drop DG on top done.

    Forgemaster and BtS-> you cast one FF/BtS on a mob and the dot stacks CG up to 4 on all mobs in range (like an aoe effect) -> easy to keep up those 5 stacks, right? Even spamming FF on a singel target, every mob arround that target will be Condemnedx5 in the blink of an eye.

    -> One empowered Devine Glow (huge radius) will debuff all mobs (if 5+) at once for 42,5% ! Awesome, isn´t it?
    -> That´s why Devine Glow sometime feels like a huge impact on a mobgroup, especially when casted empowered at let´s say Ras Ni, when adds spawn.
    Tell me how I should manage that on a templock? Impossible, PoP is a small aoe, Dreadtheft a beam, that prevents me from doing anything else that hitting 3-4 mobs in a row, if I am lucky, not to talk about CD, nope DC has the far better utility.

    Rightous = the only tree -> best debuffs, best capstone, best dps
    No build diversity at all, debuffs should be one tree, dps another and heal/protection maybe the last one.
    Can´t think of another class where max-dps, max-buffs same as best rechargetime are found in one tree? So much crooked up in this game.
    Condemnig Gaze and Bear your Sins are awesome tools.. in the wrong tree imo


    You talk about a DC with perfect AP gain.
    How many DC do you met capable of running double-daily in a fast performing group doing trash? I met zero, myself includet, sometimes I can´t even pop HG fast enough...mobs are allready dead, so a DO with passive TI + better dps, same as better divinitygain is a good way to clear trash imo. It´s from minor intertest anyway to me.

    The changes give this game a little bit more balance, but there is still a lot of problems to solve, same as things to fix, starting with general stuff like overperforming insigniaboni , you mentioned it yourself allready.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • odt#4182 odt Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Horrible idea to do that with Terrifying Insight! Is this for real... i play Dc Do mainly and it's the main buff i always have up with Foresight, the change to it is really bad and useless for my build, solo i switch to dps build anyways and Ac, my Do as main build is a group buffer and heals build and what you are doing pretty much breaks a pilar of my buffs, i even use the artifact weapon bonus for 25% crit severity. it will be impossible to buff the dps properly for the group with this change for my Do for stuff like fbi or ravenloft + i use doom also and you are nerfing that, you are totally breaking my build... why do devs always do the nerfs you dont want to see as if it's a mission to break my main char... there hasn't been an update to my Dc Do that has been positive since i play. First hallowed ground now terrifying insight, i'm afraid to see where my char will be in a year at this nerf pace... i usually also get thanked by the dps since i pretty much help tilt to the win often in advanced randoms... so if you even want to listen to a player on the field helping people get through heavy stuff, this change is a bad idea! I have no divine or action problems at all i do want to be able to buff the group for more dps though... and i do not really care of the dps i am doing since my job is to keep the players buffed and up not kill stuff! this seems more like trying to balance a parser... i don't care if im last dps in the stats im field medic first and hardly ever die...
    Post edited by odt#4182 on
  • aerhythia#3255 aerhythia Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    It's that way because before the OP got introduced DC was the only leader / healer / buffer (and even then their were other problems). Most DPS also have only one build, while one of the paragons usually is a better choice for DPS overall and the other one targeted more towards utility.

    Double dailies on one hand is HAMSTER to fit into a good rotation without popping the DC sigil. However during boss fights due to how DPS need their self-buffs and artifact, legendary mount power if available, you often have up to 5 - 10 seconds before they drop the hammer which is enough to plop Hallowed Ground. Which on the other hand means it's actually relatively easy to have both dailies up by one AC when it counts.

    @aerhythia#3255
    I did not even mention mitigation tools of a DC, to keep the discussion focussed on buffs.
    If you add those tools to the utility a DO allready got, the class is miles above other 2. rate buffer, especially in times of "one-hitting mobs/bosses" etc.

    (...)

    Yet in practice a single AC as sole buffer provides better damage mitigation then a DO + Templock or any other second buffer. My suggestion is simply to not make runs with a DO as main buffer less viable.

    Divine Armor has a like 0.5 seconds delay of casting due to the animation, add latency and you need to predict attacks or hazards by around one second before they hit, and it only lasts 4 seconds. 2/3 of the other skills increase Damage Resistance stat which is capped.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited October 2018

    It's that way because before the OP got introduced DC was the only leader / healer / buffer (and even then their were other problems).

    Is that an argument, to keep classes unbalanced for 4-5 years in it´s actual state?
    I´d say no, devs should care about classes, make other options viable and fix stuff in about.. let´s say 1/2 mod, that´s the way things should be.

    Most DPS also have only one build, while one of the paragons usually is a better choice for DPS overall and the other one targeted more towards utility.

    Yes and that´s where DC is going atm, AC -> utility (as long as powershare is not nerfed)
    DO ->dps
    No other class can run a double setup like DC and stack buff that way, that´s the problem wich was targeted by devs and solved to some degree. And the only soulution devs saw, was to delete options to simultaneously buff like FF/BtS etc.
    They could have nerfed Hollowed Ground instead of TI to a 20% dps/DR buff from 35%, that would have kept DO and AC on par with nearly the same result.. but they didn´t.
    Devs think they need to give DC another direction, i guess ?


    Double dailies on one hand is HAMSTER to fit into a good rotation without popping the DC sigil. However during boss fights due to how DPS need their self-buffs and artifact, legendary mount power if available, you often have up to 5 - 10 seconds before they drop the hammer which is enough to plop Hallowed Ground. Which on the other hand means it's actually relatively easy to have both dailies up by one AC when it counts.

    I responded on a post, that claimed an AC/DC would run double-daily doing trash, wich is a non-issue in my opinion.
    I know how to double-daily at bosses, but if you ever monitored your powershare doing so, you will recognize:
    1. that bonding-rebuff from AA drops pretty fast, wich means your party loses 54k power (DC 56k basepower) for a sinificant period of time, having that HG up, same as
    2. you are not capable to handle BtS properly and accurat on top of that.
    The window of a maximum powershare+HG at once is a very, very small window (Sigil), same as eBtS on top. That´s the terrain of premades with a perfect setup doing bossburns, but in an average groupsetups or randomqueue, it doesn´t work properly, where fights sometimes last for >1min.
    And if I should judge about the average party in NWO >90% of all runs are suboptimal runs, far away from perfection like this.
    Thx @bellkazi it´s too funny I have to post it :) not sure if that "smaller" number is wheelbuff, not 30% exactly
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1-3xhyWlM0
  • aerhythia#3255 aerhythia Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    I'm aware the difference between average 12k group and coordinated 18k group is too high right now. One group goes through the dungeon like butter (if things don't bug) the other can't get passed Arcolith even in the exact same group composition as the one in your video because you only have like 2 or 3 minutes to kill the boss. Ideally from a pure balancing point of view we would all have the exact same gear. The way it is right now devs have to look into performance of 12k groups in endgame, as well as coordinated 18k groups.

    Is that an argument, to keep classes unbalanced for 4-5 years in it´s actual state?

    It's why DC class is so versatile and also why 2 feat trees aren't great in PvE at least and many encounters and feats useless since they originally were made with the old "keep the tank alive" MMORPG design in mind and I guess also why some other classes can't be easily improved as DPS buffers (using DT for instance is a DPS decrease for Templock, while PoD or BtS are simply cast) whereas it's more of a natural progression for DC which already have a few damaging encounters and feats for personal DPS.

  • giz#2086 giz Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    Why you think the problem of players one phasing bosses in for 2x DCs meta and TRs? Why you nerf them and dps GFs are buffed? Here's a video of 4 players, one DC, and GF one phasing a boss. No TR, no 2x DCs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOkD83XI-oA
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,404 Arc User


    100 million damage in a single hit vs a boss is not where the gameplay is meant to be. As such, some dynamics were lessened to bring TRs into a more realistic place for outgoing damage.

    https://youtu.be/mBN_BoWBW-E

    Since DO DC can now one phase Avatar of Orcus, does this mean we should add DO DC to the "must nerf 100 mil damage in a single burst" nerf list?

  • midental#5256 midental Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    Incredible
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    An open secret that DO can deal damage.
    Interestingly, no SH-buff, no eFF or eExalt, nerfed TI on top.
    The simple truth, this is and was possible even in mod 13 or 14.
  • giz#2086 giz Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:


    100 million damage in a single hit vs a boss is not where the gameplay is meant to be. As such, some dynamics were lessened to bring TRs into a more realistic place for outgoing damage.

    https://youtu.be/mBN_BoWBW-E

    Since DO DC can now one phase Avatar of Orcus, does this mean we should add DO DC to the "must nerf 100 mil damage in a single burst" nerf list?
    Again...a dps GF helping.
  • divectoredivectore Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    @noworries#8859
    Living Fire: Now triggers when you drop below 35% hit points (instead of 30%)
    Living Fire: Now lasts for 5 seconds after it was triggered, even if you are healed above 35%


    Could you make this feat more like "when you or your enemy drop below 35% hp, you deal 25% more damage" in current game, no DO is ever gonna be lower than 35% hp, either because of auto heals or life steal or even a healadin tossing them heals.
    This feat is like a bad joke.... giving a healer damage if they don't heal themselves. Thats like giving damage to a GWF if he doesn't attack foes or giving control bonus to a trapper if he doesn't use a control ability.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    divectore said:

    @noworries#8859

    Living Fire: Now triggers when you drop below 35% hit points (instead of 30%)
    Living Fire: Now lasts for 5 seconds after it was triggered, even if you are healed above 35%

    I feel like we need a Kickstarter sort of deal where, if the community buys X quantity of Zen, Cryptic puts out a requisition to add a "Master of Removing Useless Garbage" to the development team.

    This valuable colleague's responsibilities would include, but not be limited to the following:
    • Scouring class feat trees for grossly ineffective and/or vestigial entries and excising them until such time as they can be replaced by almost anything else.
    • Performing a similar function in regards to class Powers and Class Features. Among their first of many, many duties would be to take the "Sooth"(sic) Class Feature of the Devoted Cleric, the Imprisonment Encounter of the Control Wizard, and the Banishment Encounter of the Oathbound Paladin and kill them with fire.
    • Analyzing metrics to identify Powers, Class Features, and Feats used by 1% or less of the community and escalating them for priority review by the development team.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • diegoalves21diegoalves21 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    IMO We DC's should have a rework on the healing and damaging powers, since the buffing is seriously nerfed. We aren't even the BiS for healing on this game, having the OP and SW. Maybe change, the amount of healing, for % of health healed on bastion of health and healing word.
  • aerhythia#3255 aerhythia Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    giz#2086 said:

    Again...a dps GF helping.

    Yup, DO DPS has always been more of a coup de grace on bosses - or mobs. You need multiple rotations to bring down Orcus. TR hits in a blink of an eye,... but instead of changing SoD they changed 3 or 4 things at the same time which seems to bring TR closer to Mod 13 TR again.

  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited October 2018

    IMO We DC's should have a rework on the healing and damaging powers, since the buffing is seriously nerfed. We aren't even the BiS for healing on this game, having the OP and SW. Maybe change, the amount of healing, for % of health healed on bastion of health and healing word.

    The problem with DC healing potential isn't that it's poor, because it really isn't. A healing spec DC can keep up with Devo OP or Templock in terms of green numbers, and a DPS DO with Repurpose Soul feated puts out quite a bit of healing provided that there are targets to hit and allies are standing near them.

    The problem with DC healing is that DCs are wanted to buff (and to provide secondary DPS in the case of DO). Dropping buff/debuff encounters in favor of Bastion of Health or Healing Word is a poor tradeoff to have to make.

    Devo OP, on the other hand, provides all of its essential buffs and maintains some supporting damage through rapid-fire burns while healing massively and passively. Templock uses DPS/debuff powers in order to activate its heals over a wide area, making it a tremendous multi-tasker in that department.

    I don't think that DCs need to compete with OP and SW heal numbers while simultaneously buffing to the max; AC and DO both have plenty going for them without encroaching on that territory. "Best Overhealer in the Game" is already a title of dubious distinction, and DCs don't need to be more of a swiss army knife class than they already are.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    vorphied said:

    Analyzing metrics to identify Powers, Class Features, and Feats used by 1% or less of the community and escalating them for priority review by the development team.

    Now, that's a pretty good idea. I suspect that in the case of DCs the list would be something like this:

    Mechanic: Channel divine power (Punishing light, Soothing light)

    Powers: Sooth, Warding Flare, Light of Divinity, Geas

    Feats: Initiate of the Faith, Battlewise.

    Everything else is at least useful in some specific situations, but those....they are just HAMSTER.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,406 Arc User
    edited October 2018

    "Terrifying Insight: Seeing the inevitable destruction of your foes, you deal 10/15/20/25% more damage. Damaging an enemy also lowers their damage resistance by 4/6/8/10% for 5 seconds" --> I would prefer you reverse it to an increase of allies' damage by 10% instead of a damage resistance debuff, it would be a better compromise because POD is also nerfed.

    The other changes are ok. Overall, the changes are just going to upset speed-runners. The dungeons will still be completed.

    I am sure that DOs will still be requested despite the 'nerf", given that most of the ACs can cover the double daily, and given that DOs still have a weaker version of POD and have a quicker rotation in general.

    It will just give more opportunities to other buff-able classes.

    Now, you can put your thumbs down :D


    As far as I understood TI will buff for 25% (self) and buff group for 10% in mod 15, allready mentioned in this thread, the debuff should be a buff when mod 15 hits.

    Actually comparison of a DO-DC and a Templock:

    lordtweety#3604 said: And if that is what you want your toon to be, make a Paladin or Cleric.
    @bellkazi : "That is the problem.I have DC. I don't need support SW.
    Hallowed Ground(35%), Break the Spirit (21%), Divine Glow (12.5%) , Terrifying Insight (10% in M15) VS Pillar of Power (18%) and Soul Bonding (20%).
    Mulitplier 2.02>1.42
    Powerbuffs: Weapons of Light >> Dark Revelry
    Bear Your Sins(10%)+Condemning Gaze(15%)+Divine Glow(17.5%)+Prophecy of Doom(12.5%) VS Dreadtheft(25%)+Pillar of Power(10%)+Aura of Despair(5%)
    debuffs 55% > 15-40%
    Damage Temptation=Damage DO in M14
    Damage Temptation < Damage DO in M15 "


    If you add an AC DC it´s:
    buffs: DO 1.485 > temp 1.42
    debuff: 20% < 15% - 40% (when DR up)
    powerbuff WoL (since not stacking) < Dark revelry (+20% basepower)

    DO is flexible by running PoD+DL+xy (dps/heal/mitigation) and should deal definitely more dps than a templock.
    PoD deletes it´s own proc getting reapplied somehow, that should be addressed.
    DO is better than all 2. rate buffer in terms of buffs, better than a tact GF in debuffs.
    He can go support on top, if he consequently denies to go dps -> AP gain and encounter reset (GoH+hastening light).
    The gap between 2. rate buffer is closer. Every DC can decide to run meta-powerbuffer setup on top.

    .... I'd still change TI to something like 15% group buff / 25% personal buff simply due to the fact teams run with one sole DC as DO and those teams literally did nothing to deserve a nerf to buff which is already lower then other party compositions. 2 DC runs will be less and less due to the changes to FF as well as other classes embracing DPS buff builds and hopefully receiving some improvements to utility and damage mitigation.


    Wich party compositions do you talk of?

    1. leader, 1. tank , 3 dps setup:
    Devo OP + protOP <<<< DO-DC + prot OP (buff 2.02 vs 1.33, debuffs 55% vs 30%) powerbuffs DO > devoOP (bypassed by prot)
    Devo-OP + tact GF << DO-DC + tact GF (buff 2.02 vs 1.33, debuffs 55% vs 30%), powerbuffs -OP >DO

    Other compositions like:
    AC-DC + prot OP > DO-DC + prot OP (at singel target imo, AC slower on trash)
    AC-DC + Tact GF > DO-DC + Tact GF (at singel target imo, AC slower on trash)
    AC-DC + prot OP >>>> DevoOP + prot OP
    AC-DC + tact GF >> DevoOP+Tact GF

    Now we talk about meta runs (hdps GF's excludet):
    GF(tact) + OP (devo) + AC/DC + hdps + 2. rate buffer
    *2. rate buffer in general are: CW-mof, GF(tact), Hunter, templock, DO-DC (in double DC setup)

    DO x 1.485, debuffs 20%
    GF x 1.35, debuffs 18%
    CW x 1.3 (uptime?), debuffs 70% ?
    Hunter x 1.4, debuffs 35%
    templock x 1.42, debuffs 15-40% - averaged 27,5%

    DO-DC has best buffs, mediocre debuffs, and dps will be better than Hunter, templock, tact GF and rene mof in mod 15 as 2.rate buffer, any questions?
    Your proposals widen a gap again, that needs to be closed !
    Ac with perfect ap gain can do aa when need( companions to get buff is enough) and then spam hallowed ground +bleesing the battle.

    You said about slow on thrash :P the buff from aa and hallowed ground together you dont need to cast empower spirit.


    ABout templock he debuffs a lot faster than a do dc and keep the debuffs easier than a dc.
    Templock deals a lot damage while buffing-debuffing and he do it faster than a do.
    IF you want to play with daunting light then and sw will go fury to be both dps .
    It´s completely the other way, you are wrong.
    1/5 into Fire of the gods will proc Bear Your sins in a second from DG or Chains, Sunburst, Searing Light etc., it does actually not work with DL somehow.
    Like @belkazi said -> 1xDG = instant 27,5% debuff

    Another mysterium, wich is like this since a pretty long time now -> Condemning Gaze
    One aoe into a mobgroup hitting 5 mobs at once leads to an instant debuff of 15% ->CG instant up !
    Hitting 2 mobs it´s two stacks on both of them, hitting 3 mobs it´s 3 etc.

    In other words, cast DG +chains and you will debuff everything inside that aoe in maybe 1,5 seconds for 42,5% !
    Or simply cast one devine Searing Light into that mobs (you only need to hit 2 mobs) and debuff the hole group for 25%, if you like to do it that way, since that devine encounter double hits mobs in 15'. That way you can even debuff 3 mobs at once for 25%, drop DG on top done.

    Forgemaster and BtS-> you cast one FF/BtS on a mob and the dot stacks CG up to 4 on all mobs in range (like an aoe effect) -> easy to keep up those 5 stacks, right? Even spamming FF on a singel target, every mob arround that target will be Condemnedx5 in the blink of an eye.

    -> One empowered Devine Glow (huge radius) will debuff all mobs (if 5+) at once for 42,5% ! Awesome, isn´t it?
    -> That´s why Devine Glow sometime feels like a huge impact on a mobgroup, especially when casted empowered at let´s say Ras Ni, when adds spawn.
    Tell me how I should manage that on a templock? Impossible, PoP is a small aoe, Dreadtheft a beam, that prevents me from doing anything else that hitting 3-4 mobs in a row, if I am lucky, not to talk about CD, nope DC has the far better utility.

    Rightous = the only tree -> best debuffs, best capstone, best dps
    No build diversity at all, debuffs should be one tree, dps another and heal/protection maybe the last one.
    Can´t think of another class where max-dps, max-buffs same as best rechargetime are found in one tree? So much crooked up in this game.
    Condemnig Gaze and Bear your Sins are awesome tools.. in the wrong tree imo


    You talk about a DC with perfect AP gain.
    How many DC do you met capable of running double-daily in a fast performing group doing trash? I met zero, myself includet, sometimes I can´t even pop HG fast enough...mobs are allready dead, so a DO with passive TI + better dps, same as better divinitygain is a good way to clear trash imo. It´s from minor intertest anyway to me.

    The changes give this game a little bit more balance, but there is still a lot of problems to solve, same as things to fix, starting with general stuff like overperforming insigniaboni , you mentioned it yourself allready.
    Party will have already an ac so what we have: An ac cast break the spirit-divine glow and all the debuffs you mentioned. SO divine oracle will bring hallowed ground 35% and ti 10% that is 48,5 which is weaker than a sw who comes with 40% buff( if we include and the power share much more) + his debuffs.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    vorphied said:

    Analyzing metrics to identify Powers, Class Features, and Feats used by 1% or less of the community and escalating them for priority review by the development team.

    Now, that's a pretty good idea. I suspect that in the case of DCs the list would be something like this:

    Mechanic: Channel divine power (Punishing light, Soothing light)

    Powers: Sooth, Warding Flare, Light of Divinity, Geas

    Feats: Initiate of the Faith, Battlewise.

    Everything else is at least useful in some specific situations, but those....they are just HAMSTER.
    I use Light of Divinity sometimes. The offhand bonus (divinity generation) is very good, in some cases more useful then divine fortune.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    @mamalion1234
    read your own post please, talking about a DO being inferior or slower in debuffing compared to a warlock. It was a reply towards your comment which is wrong comparing the tools. It was not about : "Class A is inferior running with class B compared to class C, since class A+B apply the same debuffs, wich is pretty logic"... As far as I remember
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,406 Arc User

    @mamalion1234

    read your own post please, talking about a DO being inferior or slower in debuffing compared to a warlock. It was a reply towards your comment which is wrong comparing the tools. It was not about : "Class A is inferior running with class B compared to class C, since class A+B apply the same debuffs, wich is pretty logic"... As far as I remember

    If you add an AC DC it´s:
    buffs: DO 1.485 > temp 1.42
    debuff: 20% < 15% - 40% (when DR up)
    powerbuff WoL (since not stacking) < Dark revelry (+20% basepower) .

    ok then lets see the scenario you didnt mention

    ac is righteous and can cast everything but he cant cast hallowed ground.
    invite a do who can cast hallowed ground and ti and debuff with the pod? or
    get a warlock 40 % buff (without his power buff) amd 50% Debuff?
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User

    @mamalion1234

    read your own post please, talking about a DO being inferior or slower in debuffing compared to a warlock. It was a reply towards your comment which is wrong comparing the tools. It was not about : "Class A is inferior running with class B compared to class C, since class A+B apply the same debuffs, wich is pretty logic"... As far as I remember

    If you add an AC DC it´s:
    buffs: DO 1.485 > temp 1.42
    debuff: 20% < 15% - 40% (when DR up)
    powerbuff WoL (since not stacking) < Dark revelry (+20% basepower) .

    ok then lets see the scenario you didnt mention

    ac is righteous and can cast everything but he cant cast hallowed ground.
    invite a do who can cast hallowed ground and ti and debuff with the pod? or
    get a warlock 40 % buff (without his power buff) amd 50% Debuff?

  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 324 Arc User
    would it be possible to use terrifying inside the way that:

    On critical hit you have a 30 % chance to proc TI. TI buffs the team 20 % for 5 seconds.
    This way people can go for CRIT and build up for the buffs.

    So a low lvl DC is not as good in buffing as a high lvl DC?
    Also the double DC Meta would go away or would be not as often, because if 2 AC DCś run one can change loadout to DO - but because AC normally don't stack crit it makes no sense - so only pure DO/DC's are needed an there are not too many out there.

    And if you want to kill TI completly the do something like this with avatar. On critical hit ypu have a 30 % chance to proc Avatar. Avatar increases your damage by 60 % for 5 seconds. Also here a high lvl DC would be better than a low lvl dc.



  • free2payfree2pay Member Posts: 284 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Make Punishing Light and Soothing Light to hit multiple targets and you will see more people using them. Don't think one can see much use of these even after the "buffs" change.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    free2pay said:

    Make Punishing Light and Soothing Light to hit multiple targets and you will see more people using them. Don't think one can see much use of these even after the "buffs" change.

    I'm not sure anyone would (or should) use them even if they cost 0 Divinity.

    There's no point at all to channeling that junk when the time is better spent using At-Wills that actually generate Divinity. Punishing Light would have to be so good as to be broken to get any use, and Soothing Light as a healing At-Will is basically beyond salvation.

    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • darkrurounidarkrurouni Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    I mean if they made TI work on crit hit up to 20% the same way apoc set works i think it would be a nerf everyone can agree with even if they make TI only stack to 15 or 10%
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