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M15: Devoted Cleric Class Changes

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  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    > @vordayn said:
    > A pure AC is completly different build up than a DO.
    >
    >
    > What is your definition of a good DO DC build vs a good AC DC build?

    While not directed at me, I’d suggest that a good DO DC in the current build should maximize damage potential while filling in Recovery as necessary to buff and Power where possible to provide basic power share when solo DC or to serve as AC when needed.

    A good AC typically has very, very low damage owing not only to a primary focus on base Power and on very high Recovery, but also to the encounters they use. It’s an entirely different animal.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
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    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Being the only DC in a group, outside the double meta at bossencounter:
    DG/dDG+eBtS+PoD +HG that´s what my DO DC spamms all the time in a group ....TI added passiv
    DG/dDG+eBtS+exalt+HG that´s what my AC DC spamms all the time in a group ....AA added active (if possible),

    since my basepower , even if it was 70k, would never surpass HG buff , not to talk of positioning, wich had to be 110% perfect, concerning Adds and teammates in range.
    Only to point at the next incoming nerf, powerbuff is gonna be the next target I am pretty sure, it will get downsized.
  • rustyroo13#1749 rustyroo13 Member Posts: 39 Arc User

    I think the problem is most of you DCs got devoted too much into the divine oracle.
    Instead of worshipping both dieties (the: divine oracle and the: anointed champion)
    Most of you chose to be loyal to the Divine oracle. Thus causing an imballance in the power and causing the Anointed Champion to do everything in his power to change that. Now the power balance has shifted. Causing the AC to be the most worshipped one.

    Will these two ever reach the perfect harmony balance again?

    I've played both AC and DO, and I find DO suits my play style and personality much better. Unfortunately, it was a VERY expensive transition to finalize going from AC to DO and I've finally got my cleric where I want her. Now I'm being told, "No big deal! You DO can just swap over to AC, what's the problem?" The problem is the practical element of time, money, and frustration. Plus, with 5 viable toons that all are fully geared, I do not/cannot go through that expense to change her back to AC, nor would I really want to.

    Frankly, I don't really care if there thousands of DO and only one AC, my preference is DO. Since I'm the one that has to play the character, it just makes sense that I play what I like.:)

    Arielle Redbow half-elf Warden Ranger
    Guild: Guardians of the Forest
  • michelsappak#4751 michelsappak Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Im feeling bad reading all the Ac vs Do attacking each other.

    Also i dont see this nerf really killing ac+do as we still can have hg+bts/aa+exa so most of the groups will still bring ac+do unless they know ac is a very skilled player.

    It actually goes the reverse way, mod15 for DO to join a party its mandatory that there is an AC, you not changing the 2dc meta, you actually making stronger by nerfing both AC and DO potential for single dc parties.

    The sad thing is this nerf kill solo DO as support, i main AC but i love to run DO on easier stuff like etos or cn, i have almost all companions/artfact and stuft for DOdps, i wont be able to play as DO unless theres a AC on the party.
  • The real problem all started when gwf got buffed a few mods ago. They didn't buff the other dps to keep in stride. So it made more sense to fill in a dps slot with a second DC. Because the buffs with two dcs on the gwf far out weighed that one dps. It seems more of trying to fix a symptom not the problem. Which has been not balancing the dps correctly. Letting one class (gwf) get to strong that it has become a must pick and not taking care of others of that kind. Funny they did this for the dodc but not the gwf. But all in all with out some real numbers to put against we don't know how much of a loss dos got with this. Because 10% debuff vs. 20% more dmg really needs real numbers to know the extent of this change.
  • lowjohnlowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User
    putzboy78 said:

    lowjohn said:


    My point was that for the DC, of 6 possible builds, all 6 were viable in some pretty-common circumstances.

    This change nerfs five of them, all three DO builds and the Virtuous (and to a lesser degree, Faithful) AC builds, into mostly uselessness.

    no one runs Faithful. The Virtuous capstone was abandoned after it was reworked. Almost everyone runs Righteous capstone but may take some points in virtuous for Gift of Light or faithful for Gift of the Gods but you'd be hard pressed to find DCs running a capstone besides Righteous.
    Faithful was the PVP spec before, is it not that any more? I stopped having TRs to run PVP with regularly, and with the removal of Conq shards from the Barracks buildings I haven't gone into IWD PVP in a mod or so.

    And I still swap into Virtuous for the last fight in MSP if the party is weak, because the passive healing helps against the DoTs.

    But you're right, I mostly stick to Righteous, especially at my IL.
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 324 Arc User
    lldt said:

    I don't understand Cryptic's hatred of being able to have 2 DCs in dungeons. You buffed Templock, which was nice. But you don't have to pull down classes to buff other classes.

    How can you not understand? Every CR I've done has been with 2 DCs. Having 2 out of 5 slots in endgame dungeons always taken up by 2 DCs is bad for everyone else. It's been awesome for my DC for the last year or so, but I think the only reason why this situation could be tolerated by other classes as long as it has is because it is so easy in this game to have multiple near bis characters. Leveling takes very little time, you can move enchants and campaign completion bundle costs less than a legendary mount.
    the you run with the wrong groups
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 324 Arc User

    onlymat said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.
    Over-dramatic and hysterical.
    lol you are only saying that because you mostly play as ac and it won't affect you. you are the one resorting to personal attacks here not me. and I'm guessing because I dared suggest they take a look at powershare LOL but what I said IS the truth.

    all I want is for the do to remain a viable option going forward. right now it's not going to be. it needs to be equal to ac to remain viable. otherwise ANY Other class than us will be chosen.

    Read the threat and check your options to get to the result that DO DC still can act as a supporter/dps , that´s what you prefer to do, go for it. You want to be meta-one click to do so, stop being childish please.
    more name calling. check yourself please!

    and the do can still act as support yes but they won't be called upon to do that because EVERY other support class is now better. LOL. the ac will be able to do everything we can do.
    You can run AC-DO-OP- and still be equal or better in terms of buffs/debuffs than other combos simply by debuffing 37% and buffing 35%, on top encounter reset plus mititgation buffs, nothing those other classes provide on top.
    Templock, mof , hunter are similar range. Check your options and stop being childish please.
    you can run anything - but if you want to have fast good runs replace the DO with a mof or a templock. With the cw changes a mof cw is so much better than the killed DO noone who has any clue will invite a DO dc.

    Can you explain why a CR group with an AC dc should invite a DODC? a changed one?

    what fgroup wouzld you run?

    OP DEVO / ACDC / GF / MOF / GWF
    OP DEVO / ACDC / GF / DODC / GWF

    which one will be the better group after the changes?
    I think a lot of player should calm down a bit.
    First you can play whatever you want, DO is not dead but DO will not have access to "meta" runs outside your fl/premade in case you want to follow chat and play with those, who ask 24/7 for metagroups to compensate their lack of skill.
    A lot of player exggerate in forum, telling they gonna switch over to other mmo, deny to play anything else than DO etc.
    I propose to build an OP then, if you don´t want to play AC/DC, that´s also a nice supporter, or go to build a warlock or a GWF, may be better to have other classes anyway to prevent being disappointed, same as it is benefitial to play all paragons.
    After near 4 years of Double Dc runs they decided to end that option.
    Maybe there is a goal, balance and game is heading for doing so.

    The far bigger question is, how will the company prevent player from leaving this game?
    Will mod 15 be a big content mod or not, we don´t know till now. Classbalance is a smaller issue in my eyes, if you recognize that a lot of player left the game out of bordomness.
    DO is dead and I have played since beginning my DO. Its 17,3 k now without GH 20! I played years unlocked every campaign by playing - and you suggest play an OP? Really? how long does it nedd the OP is where my DO is now? ALL campaigns play again? really?
    All enchantements upgrade again to 14 now with the very high costs of coal wards and so on?

    No like I said before I can live with a nerf (we had a time noone invited a DO for any runs) but i can't live with a nuke!
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    They also nerfed FF before and now again in terms of buffs, down from 20%, they toned down HG from 40% or 45%,
    They towned down AA down from guess 50% powershare and stopped immortality function , allowing somehow a "noobfilter" now, they stopped WoL, BYS from stacking. Thex "fixed" ITF by stopping that buff from synergizing with DR buffs like HG and other, they stopped permabubble and tons of other stupid things in game.
    All in all logical and consequent, i mean stacking same buffs and classes= trash mmo, only talking about that 25 DC Tiamat WoL superstacking run, embarrassing for every dev somehow.
    The far goal is to balance classes and the game in a hole, that was also stated mods ago.

    GWF buffed ? the core problem? The core problem is and allways was "megaton-buffs" , you will see when reaching endcontent.
    The only problem GWF got, only having one viable build and only one role to play, the other "problem" is that GWF´s selfbuffs synergize too good with added buffs like AoC, Wheel, Weapon enchants etc.

    Faithfull is the best way to play PVP btw in mod 14, virtous? never used in the last month or years.

    Btw there are classes that can synergize to some degree, running in the same group, Devo+prot pally, mof+SS-dps, templock-fury + SB-dps, BuffHunter + Dps-Hunter, dps GF and buff GF, not meta but possible due to differnt roles they take and different builds without stacking buffs same way DC does, that´s the the core problem again.
    If the class got another role it would be possible, but that only would work to some degree. I mean a DO -DC with the same focus dps like TR and HG on top will break the class.
    One solution would be, transfering buffs like CG+BYS (virtous) same as WoL (maybe faithfull) and buff rigthous tree significant. The hole concept was ment to kill options right from the start.
    I mean rightous is simply too strong, a tree that has the best capstone by far plus the best buffs/debuffs on top (WoL, CG, BYS)...
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 324 Arc User

    I see all of this discussion around how this is bad. What if the devs long term goal is to provide DC the ability to Q into content as a DPS? And the way to do this is make DO the DPS path and the devs are doing this over time but due to constrains and limited resources they cannot implement the system to have DO Q yet as a DPS, but will with say mod 16. And for now had to make these changes so they can do the next set of changes come mod 16.

    The reason I am stating this is that from all the changes I am seeing in mod 15 the devs seem to have a long term goal that they are not telling us as players.

    1) They appear to be implementing some type of buffer/debuffer role
    2) Classes will have two distinct roles
    3) Requires them to do mod 15 update prior to implementing changes for future update

    The pure lack of communication by the devs is why I believe that the community is an uproar with these changes. No one is taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture here and that is options for us.

    In the current setup DC have one type of role we play: BUFFER....that is it...DO and AC both do the same we buff and even if a DO is setup as a full on DPS that DO is a buffer. Now with these updates the DO path is now setup for damage dealer. This is good news if the devs long term goal is to provide the DC with two roles DPS and Healer/Buffer. Which would be good news if you want to play your DC as a DPS.

    As for those complaining about cost, welcome to the world of MMOs, any time the devs do balance their is always a cost past back to the player to deal with. Either continue with your current build or take a deep breath in and deal with the cost to your character to expand him or her.

    The reason why I never went on full DO is that right out of the game the DO was a bit too good. Soon after 2 DC meta was a very common thing and continues to this day. Stating it is not a thing now is like stating that CW are the highest DPS class in the game, meaning your 2 DC meta not happening regularly is full of baloney.

    This update I believe is just part of what is to coming in 2019. The question is how many of you can take a deep breath in and breathe out nice and slow and see that this is the beginning to further changes.

    The problem I see is not the changes but the lack of communication by the devs. Proper communication is needed when you are making heavy and swift changes like these; otherwise the community feed back end up being pages of negative response on the changes you are planning, even if the end goal intention is good.

    a dc as dps? makes no sense! We don't need other dps - there are enough in the game make them better! The DO DC as DPS would need a huge change. People who wantedt to play a dc had never in mind to be a full DPS even when DO dc uses most things like a full dps.

    You know what will happen. If these changes go live - the DO DC is killed - is never a DPS and it will never get changed. So many class reworks needed but instead doing it the DO DC gets killed. After this kill the devs don't touch the DO anymore.
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 324 Arc User
    vordayn said:

    onlymat said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    rjc9000 said:


    With current Powershare numbers, it is possible for AC to beat DO if the AC in question can double daily. However, most ACs cannot do this consistently, and this is near impossible to do in pronlonged fights (exception: Castle Monologue's 3rd boss because Daybreak), so you may as well not bother with it unless your DC is exceptionally good.

    Even if the AC can provide a double daily, there is always a part at the start of combat where a single AC in the party cannot provide HG (depending on how fast they can get their second daily out). Some fights with mobs are over before this second daily.

    But even at bosses, with their battle interruptions (Orcus taking flight, Strahd vanishing, Ras Nsi teleporting/being immune), getting both dailies out concurrently takes practice, and there might be gaps when both dailies do not overlap, so realistically, the buffs from both dailies even with a very practiced AC will never be 100%.

    I agree, there will still be space for a DO DC giving 100% HG uptime (and at the start of battle) with little to no interruptions between boss animations.
    but will it be more desirable than nearly any other class there instead. I doubt it.
    Even in Mod 14 as it stands, many groups look for an AC when filling their party slot in a 5-man party, so this won't change in Mod 15.

    10-person content will still want an AC and a DO in their party so that won't change.

    If you RQ, a DO DC will still provide HG + BtS (30+21% damage) to the party. An AC DC (unless at very practiced levels) does not routinely add HG to their rotation. And in RQ/PUGs a DO DC will often be a strong DPS char (and made relatively stronger now that TI is a personal 25% buff and Avatar is buffed).

    100% HG and BtS, is what, a 50% DPS increase that can be provided by which other class? An OP maybe? But they don't have the DPS output as a DO DC. A templock? Not nearly as much buffing, but they heal more (it's a funny compromise they made with that). The DO DC will still likely have weapons of light anyway, so will still contribute this as powersharing. So no, in my view, a DO DC will still be effective. If an RQ party kicks a DC for not playing AC, then they've got problems.
    the buffs they give us are not going to make us strong dps. LOL. we are still the weakest of any dps class inthe game. we already get buffs from ti. they're just adding a tiny bit more. yeah we'll be able to load into random que and get kicked. no party will ask for us. we are not as strong as the ac path will be. there is no reason we should not be equal to an ac if built right going forward. the stance you are taking is that the ac is better than do and should remain so. I disagree with that. they are two paths and both should be valid and relevant to end game. what they have proposed WILL kill the do in parties.

    acs will no longer do ff and exhalt. they will be doing bts. with the change in rotation I'm guessing it won't be as hard to keep up hg either. we can do bts and hg still but it won't be needed.

    they are worried about power creep they should be addressing that instead of killing the do.
    No, I am not saying the AC is more powerful than the DO.

    I have written down that I use both builds.

    You are asking for a nerf for the AC, so that what, the DO can be better? That doesn't make any sense to me. They are both part of the same class. I am saying that a DO can also be an AC, and they do not play like night and day (I play BOTH), and that DO is not getting "nuked".

    but going forward the do IS nuked. it will not be viable in group content. ppl will not ask for it in parties. the ac will be more powerful. by A LOT. and they do play day and night. I agree that TI was too powerful passively. but they should just make us have to build for it. other than that the classes were pretty equal. but very very different. If you don't see how different they are I'm going to have to guess you probably weren't playing at least one of them correctly lol
    Playing "correctly", to whom? To your end-game party compositions, that to me, sound elitist and counterproductive.

    WTF? Are you serious? and end game DC play with endgame partys - thats the normal way it should be.
    Not when you play with guild, alliance members, friends (whose characters aren't end-game) and in the occasional random queue.

    Your normal is different to mine.
    you proofed your not endgame. So the changes will not affect you. It affects the BIS DO DC's wo put millions after millions AD in the game.

    and you know whaat? They will do the change - why? Because the majority of players are not BIS and are not affected. Its a easy way to get rid of players and it's a minority.
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 324 Arc User
    dupeks said:

    As others have pointed out, 2 DC meta is beginning to pass for other reasons (CR mechanics), and the upcoming changes will seal the deal. Let's set that aside and agree it's a problem we want to address.

    If the point was to break up the incentive to take 2 DCs in a party, I think that the removal of empowered FF or empowered BtS damage buff would be sufficient. Looks like FF was chosen, some would have liked to see BtS nerfed instead. I don't think it matters too much, actually.

    A generic DC can bring DG / emp BtS / HG
    AC adds exalt and AA
    DO adds PoD and ??

    As has been noted, the proposed changes make DO unattractive. Without the 15% buff from empowered FF, DO only brings chip dps and a slow to cast debuff to the table. LSS HR, MoF CW, temp SW, GF, and OP all bring more to the table than that (either better damage + better support, or dramatically better support).

    Ideally, I want no more than 1 DC in party. But I'd like either DO or AC to be viable (not necessarily optimal) for those that prefer to play one or the other. But viable can't mean substantially worse, which is where this appears to be right now.

    As an idea, I would revert TI to being a group buff but add some element of skill into its use, perhaps proc'ing the buff on crit, dot, CA (once it's fixed lol), or something else. It could function similar to how CW's controlled momentum buff proc's on control powers, but based on a relevant trigger.

    Additionally, if the effect required building stacks in some form, that could remove the immediacy of the buff and address criticisms that the current form of TI is completely passive.

    As a final note, I implore you to be sensitive to the significant investment that players have made in their preferred builds. A main AC and main DO are build very differently. Both can cross over to the other paragon in a pinch with a loadout, but optimized gear is effectively entirely different. Please try not try make either paragon non-viable in this update.

    no more to say. This is the way to go.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    @onlymat
    What did you put into your DO DC then? Archons- keep them or switch to the 1500 power augment all will switch in mod 15 plus those 2 that came up to be BIS this year , no clue why they got buffed honestly, all in all it´s 2700 power you get, for the cost of mio AD then.
    But that´s only for player , who like to spend millions of AD into one green companion level them to purple/BIS , to get a kick in the eggs afterwards I guess.

    You bought a Dread enchant, keep it it´s fine
    You wear Black ice in defense and brutals in offense? You can simply exchange them in PE -> trade, or put Black ice into offense and maybe brutal in defense or change them into radiant.
    All in all you will not lose a dime doing so, you will get some AD back then from Brutals.
    About gear we do not need to discus, do we? This game throws gear after every player if dungeons or hunts actually.
    All you need is 3x +4 companiongear (cheap) and some 3-6silveries in offenes slots, you allready got them? fine.
    You got your AC DC in one day or less.
    Proof to run endgame?? this game is by no means a challange you want it to be, go play maybe Dark Souls naked to get some challenge.
    And as far as I can tell vordayn has more knowledge of all classes he plays than 99 % in this threat, you includet tbh, sry all you do here is yelling and biting and disqualifying to some degree, here take this hanky you earned it.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    a solo do build is kinda silly to spend millions on building. lol. you can do the same amount of solo damage with a 14k hr as you can an a 17.8 do solo. it's all easy to get thru but it's pointless to have spent any ad on. imo it is useless as HAMSTER on a bull.

    Useless? well, that depends on why you are playing the game.... in my case the reason I play is to have fun....and if I enjoy playing a DO DC solo...well, anything worth doing is worth doing properly, right ?

    Sure, there is no real benefit to getting R14 utility enchants or something like that, but for me it is like working towards getting every single "Slayer" title (still have 4 left) .... no real benefit - I just find it fun.

    Now, some of my gear can be shared with an AC build - the pants, two of the artifacts and a mount or two, but that's it.... my AC gear is not quite the same quality as my DO gear, but that's because I enjoy DO more than AC .... so why not spend my time and AD on what I enjoy?
    Hoping for improvements...
  • alfalolzalfalolz Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Well. I like how you guys want to have a dps cleric. IO played dps cleric since mod 4.... and i remember how i burned those TR's down most of the time.... then it was too difficult to play since GW were too overpowered. Now everything is toned down but the main problem i cant play pvp again becuz of the SHIELD nerf. Can you rethink on how the shield works in mod 15 pls. Becuz we are like glass cannons, we ghot no parry in huge amounts, defence is of no use against good players.... How to we have to stay alive if we got no more shield???? Mayb keep it the same as it was before for dps clerics and keep it the way it is for healing ones????
    Gentle request to relook some other abilities that are too clanky to dps with along with the SHEILD. Make it like a CW shield in the tab that absosbs some damage over some period of time... but as of it now its totally a waste of an ability.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    alfalolz said:

    Well. I like how you guys want to have a dps cleric. IO played dps cleric since mod 4.... and i remember how i burned those TR's down most of the time.... then it was too difficult to play since GW were too overpowered. Now everything is toned down but the main problem i cant play pvp again becuz of the SHIELD nerf. Can you rethink on how the shield works in mod 15 pls. Becuz we are like glass cannons, we ghot no parry in huge amounts, defence is of no use against good players.... How to we have to stay alive if we got no more shield???? Mayb keep it the same as it was before for dps clerics and keep it the way it is for healing ones????
    Gentle request to relook some other abilities that are too clanky to dps with along with the SHEILD. Make it like a CW shield in the tab that absosbs some damage over some period of time... but as of it now its totally a waste of an ability.

    One feat that is not mentioned that much is Devine Intervention, shields a ton of damage in PVP running a faithfull DC, but as dps DC it might suck.
    There are near no good dps DC in PVP i´d say, met maybe one, but being focussed by other classes they do melt.
    Some run 80% DR+50% deflectchance, one key to success in PVP. In case an "Arp-monster" with 180% RI comes for you, that doesn´t help either.
    I tried dps setup running AS/exalt+BtS+sunburst/DG, Hammer of Fate is nice sometimes but faitfull is the more powerfull tree esepcially as longs as your gear is not maxed.
    Mabye I will give it a try in mod 15 again.
  • gatorusmcgatorusmc Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    vordayn said:

    onlymat said:


    A pure AC is completly different build up than a DO.

    What is your definition of a good DO DC build vs a good AC DC build?


    100% Crit & AP then Power with Rec coming in a distant fourth.
    Demo Artifact Set.
    For Comps: Tiger, Siege, Archons, Magnus
    Lightning or Dread


    CN and under it's: DL, DG, Chains.
    Over CN it's: BTS/FF, DG, Doom.

  • gatorusmcgatorusmc Member Posts: 17 Arc User

    I can't say I'm unhappy about the terrifying insight nerf. As a pure heals cleric, I've had a long standing issue with buff/debuff cleric. I think this shifts the cleric priority to where it should be. We are clerics. We keep our party alive. Any buff/debuff we have should focus on that. Now if they would only take out the templock heals, I'd be happy.

    Don't kid yourself, you're wanted for AA and buff/debuff. DO losing TI doesn't change that.

    I don't know of any group that brings a cleric for heals. If they want heals, it's temp first and devo second.


  • almondumalmondum Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    There was already a wave of x2 DC meta Nerf: Hallowed Ground was nerfed, Break the Spirit was nerfed, Bear your Sins stopped stacking, but MOST IMPORTANTLY, many clerics experienced and newbie gave ideas and solutions to this problem (check the old threads).
    Were those read? There was really no other way to solve this conundrum without completely excluding Divine Oracle from end-game groups and harming all those customers?

    I believe that not enough resources were given for this task, I believe the task was assigned to a single person, who felt alone and unsupported and had to do the best he/she could...and well, this is what we get: a quick solution to present to our superior that does what he/she wanted...but ooppps, it anger and harms the customer.
    We're not here to point fingers, but one thing is certain, this does not feel like something done by a TEAM.

    Please consider changing the current nerfs into something more functional through the end-game, there's no need to go back, but add something, make DO equally competitive with other support builds: Temptation SW, Devotion Paladin, HR, etc.
    You will think: "If I/we do that, x2 DC meta comes back...I/we really have to kill Divine Oracle to not see 2 DCs in private groups". Well, the thing is, as some folks already pointed out, the x 2 DC is NOT the problem, the problem is the stacking of 4 support builds (stacking of buffs and debuffs - id est, core game mechanics) for a single DPS. Change that, and the traditional group composition will come back, aka a Tank, a Healer and 3 damage focused DPS classes.
    Right now, with a single DPS present, it is more beneficial to stack buffs and debuffs on him/her than to bring another DPS to the group....why should Divine Oracles suffer for a problem that is game-wide. It is not intrinsic to DODC, it affects every single class.

    Also: I am NOT calling/implying anyone to be incompetent, lazy, whatever negative you could feel or perceive by reading this. It's just feedback of an impression that one of your customers has based on what he saw.

    Thank you for your attention,
    Best regards,
    Almond.
  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    This change to Terrifying Insight is disastrous for the DO-DC, in this form it might as well be deleted...

    It might be somewhat useful for solo-play, but that's about it.

    Reduction of buffs/DC-synergy can (and needs to?) be done, but this nerf was pure overkill.
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