How to Stay Alive in FBI

chemjeff

So, I have a video of my tanking performance in FBI, apologies in advance for the lack of sound.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH__epAbJGI


As you can see, I could use some advice for how to stay alive. I've read some guides and they all seem to be focused on using the OP to buff the party, but I can't buff the party if I'm dead. I'm having a hard time finding a guide for actually surviving. So, what do I do? I am thinking of dropping Aura Gifts in the Light path in favor of Martyr's Blood in the Bulwark path, at least for purposes of dungeons like this. How can I boost my survivability here?

tilrod2

1. Know your enemy. it looks like you dont know that after a giant rushs at you he throws a rock. the rock is deadly. so block the rush and other ccs with your shield and move away.
2. Wait for your party. you should be the first one, who enters the combat, but your Party should be ready to support you.
3. Use TW before BO and use TW more frequently.
4. If you Need more protection use other auras like aura of protection and aura of truth.
5. Use your "shield of faith" daily.

mebengalsfan

I tank FBI without frost resist. Not sure if mod 14 removed the need for Frost resist but I don't have it and tank FBI just fine on my OP and I was under 11K. I had 3 deaths from the hill climb. Two near the middle camp fire and one near the top camp fire. I am experienced from running FBI on my GF so it was rather easy for me.

I find tanking FBI, MSPC, MSVA, T9, and CoDG easier on my 11K OP than my 14K GF. Tanking isn't even hard but when comparing the GF to a OP the GF requires a bit more awareness to ensure you don't go down.

chemjeff

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

I tank FBI without frost resist. Not sure if mod 14 removed the need for Frost resist but I don't have it and tank FBI just fine on my OP and I was under 11K. I had 3 deaths from the hill climb. Two near the middle camp fire and one near the top camp fire. I am experienced from running FBI on my GF so it was rather easy for me.

I find tanking FBI, MSPC, MSVA, T9, and CoDG easier on my 11K OP than my 14K GF. Tanking isn't even hard but when comparing the GF to a OP the GF requires a bit more awareness to ensure you don't go down.

Well then maybe you can share some of your insight on how to tank FBI on an OP.

thefabricant

I recommend switching that augment out with a bonded pet, you are losing out on most of the benefit of aura gifts by having an augment, for a minimal gain in power share.

mebengalsfan

chemjeff said:

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

I tank FBI without frost resist. Not sure if mod 14 removed the need for Frost resist but I don't have it and tank FBI just fine on my OP and I was under 11K. I had 3 deaths from the hill climb. Two near the middle camp fire and one near the top camp fire. I am experienced from running FBI on my GF so it was rather easy for me.

I find tanking FBI, MSPC, MSVA, T9, and CoDG easier on my 11K OP than my 14K GF. Tanking isn't even hard but when comparing the GF to a OP the GF requires a bit more awareness to ensure you don't go down.

Well then maybe you can share some of your insight on how to tank FBI on an OP.

Simply walk around and avoid the red attacks. Use VOW to hold threat but don't stand still. Same way I tank on my GF...It is called kiting just in case you needed terminology there. I did that in other games as a tank. It is a common tanking tactic to use in games for harder hitting enemies or when you need to move a group of enemies away from your teammates.

chemjeff

thefabricant said:

I recommend switching that augment out with a bonded pet, you are losing out on most of the benefit of aura gifts by having an augment, for a minimal gain in power share.

I appreciate the advice, but I am using the augment pet so that I can transfer HP to my main character. My guild does not have the Stronghold HP boon and my augment gives me something like 40k HP alone. I obviously need all the HP that I can get at this point. Plus at this point I view staying alive to be more important than buffing the party, because I can't buff anyone if I'm dead. So while I am using an augment, should I just completely ditch Aura Gifts and use Martyr's Blood instead?

veywiil

chemjeff said:

thefabricant said:

I recommend switching that augment out with a bonded pet, you are losing out on most of the benefit of aura gifts by having an augment, for a minimal gain in power share.

I appreciate the advice, but I am using the augment pet so that I can transfer HP to my main character. My guild does not have the Stronghold HP boon and my augment gives me something like 40k HP alone. I obviously need all the HP that I can get at this point. Plus at this point I view staying alive to be more important than buffing the party, because I can't buff anyone if I'm dead. So while I am using an augment, should I just completely ditch Aura Gifts and use Martyr's Blood instead?

I have no words for how un-optimal this is. You should swap the augment out for bonding. Bonding will give you more power as well as crit and Arp. The Powr+Arp will increase the damage TW gives you to essentially make you immortal.

chemjeff

What rank of bondings, and how much power and armor penetration and critical strike, would I need to replace 40k in HP?

Please do not tell me "just get 100%". This is not my main character and so I have to weigh carefully the investments I make in him.

veywiil

So I wrote a really long post explaining the math, but lets do something different instead. Since you don't seem interested in spending any money (even if we did convince you bondings are better) Let's focus on what you as a player can do better.

#1 Moving out of red circles, holding shift in order to do so is like #1 here.
#2, don't use Binding Oath if you can't live through high burst, it actually can make things much worse if timed incorrectly. Specifically with this point, keep in mind it does damage to you after the 100% has been eaten through, its only really a 50% shield, so if they do 80% of the shield in one swing, and then do like 150% of your max hp, you actually take 180% in that swing, because 20% is absorbed by the shield, then you take the remainder + 50% of your max HP which is greater than the amount originally given in one instance of time. (Yes I am simplifying a few things her, but the point remains the same).
#3 If you are going to use Shielding Strike you have to let the third swing hit to gain the benefits of the extra reduction.
#4 Getting hit by rocks will kill you, seriously. It does well over 100k in everfrost with no resistance, no counting the 100k you take from the actual rock. This can straight up just 1 shot nuke you.
#5 Make sure your DR is capped out for everyone. Astral Shield + CoP goes a very very long way.
#6 Just get out of the way, learn the mobs attack patterns and move. Yes there is a ton going on in here sometimes, but just move move move, cast TW, kite, CoP, kite etc... If the mobs have to run around to hit you all the time, or waste time using wind up abilities that don't connect its a huge win verses wiping and restarting... If you get crowd controlled you die, so back to point #1.

Fangbreaker isn't that hard once the players know how to correctly react to mob rotations.

dupeks

chemjeff said:

What rank of bondings, and how much power and armor penetration and critical strike, would I need to replace 40k in HP?

Please do not tell me "just get 100%". This is not my main character and so I have to weigh carefully the investments I make in him.

It's just power and positioning. Arpen and crit don't help with TW temp HP generation (Thanks michela!)

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1232311/templars-wrath-protection-op/p1

To that end though, most parties have a DC which combined with your own aura gifts gives a pretty solid boost to power. I'd wager even mid rank bondings (10-12) would replace 40k in HP by consistently generating more temp HP through TW.

Edit: For Arpen, I'd say get to 45% RI first (full damage against pre-tong mobs), and eventually 60% RI (full damage against pre-tong bosses). Once you get bondings up, it's a bit easier to find room for Arpen.

chemjeff

Edit: Okay I guess I am just really confused then. What you seem to be saying is that I should build my OP like it is a DPS character. Is that about right?

dupeks

chemjeff said:

Ok I don't understand how you get from 240k HP to 24k power. How are these interchangeable?

Edit: Okay so you are referring to the Oath of Protection paragon power? It says that I get 10% of my Max HP in power if I am hit. That power is part of my base power for Templar's Wrath?

Yes OP oath adds to base power.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1227832/reference-power-sharing/p1

But again, the survival mechanic on an OP is generating millions of HP through TW. For that, you want bondings. The extra HP granted in augment translated to power share is not enough to justify the switch.

As a bonus, in a high-end party, the added movespeed from your powershare combined with shep's devo insignia bonus contributes more to clear speed than a couple thousand more points of power shared would help. So even for support-minded folks on the high end bondings make sense.

chemjeff said:

Edit: Okay I guess I am just really confused then. What you seem to be saying is that I should build my OP like it is a DPS character. Is that about right?

A little bit, but not really.

You need to be smart about what you prioritize, especially since you said you have limited resources to start off with. So yes, since your temp HP generation is dependent on the strength of your TW hit, you should opt for power and certain buffs which allow you to generate enough HP to survive comfortably (at least for situations when you actually need to be tanking). But ArPen and Crit are less important, as are situational buffs (combat advantage, etc.) Go read the other link I sent.

veywiil

I was confused by my own math for a while so I just got rid of the whole monster, instead I wrote some advice on how to better use your character up above, may be worth a re-read jeff. The overall premise of my math was correct, just couldn't get in the mindset to do it correctly.

chemjeff

Well I found some Rank 9 bondings on an alt that I had squirreled away and I used that on a Lillend with 3 Primal Assault rings with Radiants in offense and Azures in defense (don't know if that is right, but that is what I had on hand), and I tried FBI again. This time it took only 2 hours, lol. And that was AFTER joining the party after the hill climb. Drufi took 6 attempts overall, I think. (Yeah, that's totally legit for a two-year-old dungeon...)

When should I use Binding Oath? That is about all I have available for taunting the mobs to attack me and not the DPSers. I don't deal enough damage so that the mobs attack me based on damage alone. The few times I have been in dungeons with a really well geared GWF, the only way I could taunt the mobs was with Binding Oath. The entire rest of the time, the mobs were focused on the GWF. On the Turtle fight, especially after a few slams, I really needed the extra HP from Binding Oath otherwise I would have died. If I don't use Binding Oath, what should I use instead?

With the bondings, my Damage Taken is -72%. Is that sufficient? I also use Circle of Power when I can for both mobs and bosses, so I figure that's enough, but maybe you have a different view.

Also with the bondings ,my Defenses Ignored is 48% and my Critical Chance is also 48%. Is that sufficient for FBI? I don't plan on going to TONG or anything harder, anytime soon.

thefabricant

Yes, you should build your OP like a DPS character. A very (simplified) way of explaining tanking on OP is the more damage you do, the more temp hp you have and thus the more tanky you become. There was a very good guide somewhere in the OP section (which is somewhat out of date but the principles remain the same) by viral, draco and grace, which explains how to build a protection OP. Following that set of advice, pretty much nothing will kill you. Not even Winter's Call.

I remember when Grace first made his OP in mod 10, he would run fbi with rank 8's on and he was still an immovable force on it with templar's wrath.

gromovnipljesak

thefabricant said:

Yes, you should build your OP like a DPS character. A very (simplified) way of explaining tanking on OP is the more damage you do, the more temp hp you have and thus the more tanky you become. There was a very good guide somewhere in the OP section (which is somewhat out of date but the principles remain the same) by viral, draco and grace, which explains how to build a protection OP. Following that set of advice, pretty much nothing will kill you. Not even Winter's Call.

I remember when Grace first made his OP in mod 10, he would run fbi with rank 8's on and he was still an immovable force on it with templar's wrath.

Going in line with Sharpie's advice, this build comes into play.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19TiuOJBGGfb2SsNEK2aAl9vipvY4qfaDJN69Ytd2E9U/pub

Build by imo one of the best players around. The build hasn't been updated in a while though, since 12a. Still best one around tho.

chemjeff

gromovnipljesak#8234 said:

thefabricant said:

Yes, you should build your OP like a DPS character. A very (simplified) way of explaining tanking on OP is the more damage you do, the more temp hp you have and thus the more tanky you become. There was a very good guide somewhere in the OP section (which is somewhat out of date but the principles remain the same) by viral, draco and grace, which explains how to build a protection OP. Following that set of advice, pretty much nothing will kill you. Not even Winter's Call.

I remember when Grace first made his OP in mod 10, he would run fbi with rank 8's on and he was still an immovable force on it with templar's wrath.

Going in line with Sharpie's advice, this build comes into play.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19TiuOJBGGfb2SsNEK2aAl9vipvY4qfaDJN69Ytd2E9U/pub

Build by imo one of the best players around. The build hasn't been updated in a while though, since 12a. Still best one around tho.

I read that build. The impression I got from reading that build is that this is a player who only runs with 17k+ players and has no need to do actual "tanking". So I was suspicious about how relevant that information is for me, as only a 13k OP. For example he says to use Smite on boss fights. Well, I would get absolutely murdered if I tried to do that. And he doesn't even say to use Templar's Wrath on boss fights! That is part of the problem that I have with reading some of the guides here. They seem to have a different target audience than me.

dupeks

chemjeff said:

I read that build. The impression I got from reading that build is that this is a player who only runs with 17k+ players and has no need to do actual "tanking". So I was suspicious about how relevant that information is for me, as only a 13k OP. For example he says to use Smite on boss fights. Well, I would get absolutely murdered if I tried to do that. And he doesn't even say to use Templar's Wrath on boss fights! That is part of the problem that I have with reading some of the guides here. They seem to have a different target audience than me.

Right, which is why you went on the forums and posted a video asking for advice.

Then all manner of helpful folk came out of the woodwork and generally all recommended the same things (some points about positioning, rotation, knowing the frost giant attacks, and then bondings + TW HP generation).

When you asked about build details, they pointed you to what is often considered the best prot-OP guide. Even though it may read as if it is targeted towards high-end players only, it actually has great guidance and build advice applicable to all ilvls. You'll likely want to keep TW on bosses and make a few other tweaks, and that's where your personal preferences and newly-gained OP class mechanics knowledge can help you find a solution that works great for you.

majorcharvenak

Jeff.

Did you try Vow during the boss fights? In the few times I've had to switch loadouts from heals to tank during FBI, its worked for me in keeping the their attention.

chemjeff

I did try Vow for the Hati fight. I think it worked a little better there. I am not sure what are the correct tools to use for Drufi though. I have used Bane, Circle of Power, and Templar's Wrath, but I have a hard time dragging Drufi out of the icicles with that setup. Should I use Vow here too? I also don't want to damage the icicles.

chemjeff

Well, here is my latest attempt to tank the giants. I just tried it solo in FBI to see how long I could stay alive. I am using Aura of Protection and Aura of Truth here. Let me know how I can improve.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=858AJ4mCyDY

meer

chemjeff said:

I did try Vow for the Hati fight. I think it worked a little better there. I am not sure what are the correct tools to use for Drufi though. I have used Bane, Circle of Power, and Templar's Wrath, but I have a hard time dragging Drufi out of the icicles with that setup. Should I use Vow here too? I also don't want to damage the icicles.

There isn't much point in using Circle of Power in the Drufi fight, she doesn't stay still enough for it to have any real bearing on you or your team. Vow works wonder for Drufi though for me, every time I use it she comes rushing to me. Especially if she's taking damage at that time, since that builds aggro for me as the OP. And also, unless you're mindlessly using Lightning enchant around the icicles, or someone in your team is, they shouldn't break. Just tell your team to be a bit mindful there. If you're still having trouble with aggro, you can slot oath strike and make sure the 3rd hit lands on the boss - that's instant aggro for you, for 3 seconds. But you shouldn't need it, just Vow works great.

benyr

Absolutely agree with all thats been said above, id just chip in that your mounts and companions can really help as well. Conscious that on an alt you're not going to be throwing resources around to get things like the chultan tiger or razerwood, but if you can look at a con artist as summoned, nice debuff and 3 ring slots, then some active pets that up your damage and proc TW (the archions dont) so seige master, alpha comphy, velocoraptor would be examples. Then maybe an energon as theyre dirt cheap and provide a nice HP boost.
For a mount if you can get any that have assassins covenant it provides a very handy power boost

mebengalsfan

You need to use Templar's Wraith. It is your primary way to have Temp HP.

As for Binding Oath, it is ok if you know when and how to use it. FBI is all about positioning.

1) Use darks in utility for added speed to your character. Using anything else will not assist you with the hill climb.
2) I use Circle of power and Bane along with Templar's Wraith. Make sure to use Templar's wraith when you have as many allies and enemies near you to gain max Temp HP.
3) Move and move and move again. You need to keep moving around to avoid being killed by the boulders being thrown at you.
4) Form groups and not random Q. One or two strong DPS will make it a much easier run for you as you learn the mechanics as a tank.