Holding me hostage

ragnarz2

I'm talking about you Cryptic. You give us a supremely flawed random queue system. When that doesn't work out you double down and make the flawed system more monolithic. Like all cynics we knew it would get worse and today you delivered. Removing the queue information so that we can no longer VOTE with our decline button. All that anecdotal information for analysis and you choose the dictatorial HAMSTER option. Each time you revamp this horrible system you diminish my gaming experience. There is nothing good about what you have done. It does highlight how misguided and out of touch the decision makers are. Moderator edited out political comment.

If you remain hell bent on having a system like this do something simple that provides players with choice. Randomly choose 6 things every day (2 in each tier) and let players decide what they want to run. Its not perfect and some days people wont like it but that wont be every day like we now have. You wont have players forced to join an instance and then have them behave badly in order to get kicked so as not to incur a penalty. Alternatively you could come up with something completely new and VIABLE.

You have created the worst of the worst rube goldberg. Using negative reinforcement to diminish players enjoyment and now limiting their only egress to avoid penalties by forcing others to kick them. That is not a sustainable management style.

BE BETTER !!!!!

namelesshero347

ragnarz2 said:

Removing the queue information so that we can no longer VOTE with our decline button.

HAHA they actually did it. I admit I was one of many players abusing that information. But the change is generally better for most people, just not for the abusers.

And who is holding you hostage? You are free to leave any time.

chivonica

I tried to do this twice the other day for quick advanced queue but the queues took so long I cba to continue doing it and was better off just doing intermediate quickly with bonuses. Plus it just wastes other peoples time with continual declines.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

ametris

ragnarz2 said:

I'm talking about you Cryptic. You give us a supremely flawed random queue system. When that doesn't work out you double down and make the flawed system more monolithic. Like all cynics we knew it would get worse and today you delivered. Removing the queue information so that we can no longer VOTE with our decline button. All that anecdotal information for analysis and you choose the dictatorial HAMSTER option. Each time you revamp this horrible system you diminish my gaming experience. There is nothing good about what you have done. It does highlight how misguided and out of touch the decision makers are. Moderator edited out political comment.

If you remain hell bent on having a system like this do something simple that provides players with choice. Randomly choose 6 things every day (2 in each tier) and let players decide what they want to run. Its not perfect and some days people wont like it but that wont be every day like we now have. You wont have players forced to join an instance and then have them behave badly in order to get kicked so as not to incur a penalty. Alternatively you could come up with something completely new and VIABLE.

You have created the worst of the worst rube goldberg. Using negative reinforcement to diminish players enjoyment and now limiting their only egress to avoid penalties by forcing others to kick them. That is not a sustainable management style.

BE BETTER !!!!!

I'm glad there's a lot to do in the new zone, I haven't run a dungeon/skirmish using the queue system since the changes, and probably won't again.

nunya

Honestly, the solution is for everyone to "vote with their feet" so to speak: Stop doing the Advanced Queue altogether and that data will show them that enough people hate how it's designed that they'll have no choice but to eventually do something else. Please note the important word "eventually" in that previous sentence. No one should be under any illusions (or delusions) that this will happen quickly. It will probably take the better part of two years at least.

This is truly what my wife and I have done. Before this change on Friday, we were already of the opinion that waiting to get into a dungeon took far too long in the Advanced Queue. With this change on Friday, there's no way we are going to wait that long only to end up in a dungeon that is basically sure to fail. We've changed to running just the Intermediate and Leveling queues, and then running epic dungeons for salvage. The funny thing about this is that before this change to the random queues and the refinement limit of 100k/account, I was earning about 100k per day across 8 characters running random queues. After this change to the random queues, I've generated over 700k in the last two days by running the two queues once each and then running epic dungeons. So I'm now generating far more rough astral diamonds than I ever did before. The same is true for my wife, though she has only five characters and so she is (and was) generating about half as many rough astral diamonds as I do.

sandukutupu

ragnarz2 said:

...Like all cynics we knew it would get worse and today you delivered. Removing the queue information so that we can no longer VOTE with our decline button.

I believe the changes took place Thursday. They posted it in the patch notes. I really don't have an issue with the ques, Tiamat was taking forever to get people into it. They would see 18 out of 25 and decline. Time to pull up those big boy britches and fight. You can't keep running the easy stuff and not help others. No more running Cloaked Tower just for wealth.

thevampinator

Personally they should have kept random dungeons and random skirmishes while adding the new intermediate advanced and expert. Having random skirmish really helped with exp too. They need to go back to the old system and mix it with the new
They really do need to return the random leveling skirmish and keep it separate from dungeons and also remove the level restrictions on all the skirmishes that way even level seventies can do blacklake distract, orc raid, storm the keep and others they miss because of players not queuing for the higher level skirmishes that are so limited by the time you want to do those your already overleveled anyways and can't do them.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

shadoewrayth

The odd part (I think) is that the leveling, and intermediate, queues were absolutely fine, go pretty fast, etc. It is the advanced queue that is the pain, with a broken option (MSP, something to do with the chains? I still have never done it), an option that almost no one is actually capable of PUGging (though we will assuredly hear of those rare anecdotal pieces of evidence to try and show it is fine, we just need to GG or something to prevent 1 or 2 members from just abandoning flat out, yeah that's OUR fault), etc. Players could at least watch and wait for a non-5 person instance to get EDemo, but then the company took THAT away (I guess to try and force us to shove spikes under our fingernails or something?)

So, if the advanced queue is taking way longer than it was before the patch? Yeah, sorry, that's because most players have just stopped doing that one altogether, and you are now trying to build groups with 3 or 4 people out of thousands (because that queue is busted, and almost no one is willing to put their privates in a vice and squeeze for 15-20 minutes just to get 13-15K rAD, especially when we have a CAP on the rAD that is insanely easy to get to without those extra rAD... seriously, you put all these restrictions and bugs/glitches in our way, then expect us to go with it???)

kemnimtarkas

The RAD potential isn't worth the time/risk associated with the advanced queue challenge.

Leveling and intermediate queues are fine for me, even with the addition of skirmishes to the list of possible draws for the queue.

shadoewrayth

kemnimtarkas said:

The RAD potential isn't worth the time/risk associated with the advanced queue challenge.

It's not just the time/risk though, the rAD cap affects it as well. With the limit per day, and as many other sources as there are? A lot of people end up with overflow rAD already, why even think of doing that queue? It's just not worth it at all.

sandukutupu

I just checked the game, this system seems to be doing its job. Zen backlog is now at 6.9 million and dropping. If you do trade AD for Zen, it will only be a week wait and not a month.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

b4t1b4t

I will add my cents to the conversation. The way randoms was done to is done now does not bother me one bit at all. What bother's me the most is no point in actually doing a random at all. When a player has so much over flow rough AD but can only refine 100K per day per account it really takes out the reason to even queue up for any random. At least back before mod 14 I had a reason to do a random. To get salvage for alts but thats now over and I am left wondering what is the point of doing any random at all. This makes people like me become rather bored sitting around with nothing to do. Instead of limiting things maybe add something for people to actually do at end really.
As for the advanced random queue and changes I think that should have been done before now. To be honest you can still tell what your get when it loads and for most if you dont like the pick why queue for the advanced. Speaking of that people should read the word Advanced how it is meant to be read. Advanced means its harder then that of the other queues and there for may take longer.

shadoewrayth

The only reasons I do randoms is to level my alts to 70. Once there, the SH random quests don't really offer much of anything for me, but, getting to 70? Those quests really help out.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

nunya

b4t1b4t said:

I will add my cents to the conversation. The way randoms was done to is done now does not bother me one bit at all. What bother's me the most is no point in actually doing a random at all. When a player has so much over flow rough AD but can only refine 100K per day per account it really takes out the reason to even queue up for any random. At least back before mod 14 I had a reason to do a random. To get salvage for alts but thats now over and I am left wondering what is the point of doing any random at all. This makes people like me become rather bored sitting around with nothing to do. Instead of limiting things maybe add something for people to actually do at end really.
As for the advanced random queue and changes I think that should have been done before now. To be honest you can still tell what your get when it loads and for most if you dont like the pick why queue for the advanced. Speaking of that people should read the word Advanced how it is meant to be read. Advanced means its harder then that of the other queues and there for may take longer.

I don't have an issue with whether the dungeon itself takes longer to run. I have an issue with having to wait 30 minutes or more for a group to be formed and the run itself to start. Also, you can't tell what dungeon you're going to get now until after the group has been formed and the game is loading you all into the dungeon. Knowing at that point doesn't help because you'll just get the "leaver penalty" and be on a timer to run the queue if you leave then. It was useful to know which one you'd be getting at the point where you were deciding whether to accept or decline.

namelesshero347

nunya#5309 said:

It was useful to know which one you'd be getting at the point where you were deciding whether to accept or decline.

It was way more useful to healers, and tanks to a certain extent. There is no reason to accept a harder party-of-five run when your queue wait time is naturally short. Now every one is on a level playing field, they have to take the penalty to avoid a run.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

greywynd

spunkmeier said:

Or you can just walk out of the dungeon and go play in another zone until you get kicked. Saves you at least fifteen minutes of this penalty.

Or you can just do nothing until you get kicked. Saves you at least fifteen minutes of this penalty.

Or you can be an adult and accept what you were given or take the leaver penalty.

sandukutupu

spunkmeier said:

sandukutupu said:

I just checked the game, this system seems to be doing its job. Zen backlog is now at 6.9 million and dropping. If you do trade AD for Zen, it will only be a week wait and not a month.

Not really.

You need to understand that the only reason the backlog increased to such a high level was due to people wanting Zen for the summer sale. The demand for Zen is just currently not as high now as there is no salei.

Not really.

People are buying Zen and there are fewer AD farmers to pay out. The AD farmers are throwing in the towel \o/ players win!

Unknown

This content has been removed.

shadoewrayth

And here is the problem... A lot of players know the chances of things like FBI/MSP succeeding with a PUG, and thus will leave instance, abandon, or stand around waiting to get kicked, because the alternative is to actually TRY the instance, and almost always end up spending longer before figuring out it just won't work, and THEN spending time waiting for someone to drop, etc... could easily spend 15-20 wasting time doing all of that... OR, be a butt, and get kicked within 5-10 minutes? Less frustration, less waste of time since you could do something else, etc... it's pretty simple for an equation there. The simple solution is for PWE to stop being dumb, and fix the broken dungeons, then remove the ones that are fine at the IL if it is a planned run, but if random should be done at a high IL.

I mean, honestly, if they threw FBI in the last queue, it would probably be no problem at all. But, at 11K? It's just about insane, especially since there is no guarantee that you will even have a tank or healer. I've been in groups that had a GF that was built for DPS, and so was the cleric. So, no, not going to succeed there. If it had been minimum 13K? Maybe... still might be a bad run, but, at least a much better chance, and the people probably know what they are doing by then, too! Too easy to get 11K now, so... have people who barely know what they are doing, trying to PUG something that hard for that IL?

minotaur2857

I've done exactly one attempt with the new queue system (on the lower queue). Tiamat, somebody bugged the black head by running in too fast, 25 people standing around waiting for somebody else to leave first. This is absolutely KILLING my guilds as we just can't get dungeon shards because nobody is prepared to play with this turkey of a system.

callumf

Make RAQ iL 14k minimum. End of.

mentinmindmaker

11k is way way too low for RAQ. I think I have ended up with a playable group in FBI/MSP only once, otherwise it has been full of 11-12k people that has no business whatsoever in FBI/MSP. RAQ limit should be 14k.

I never do so long runs with so understrenght groups.. I know they will fail so not wasting much time. But usually someone leaves after a short while so it is fine. Otherwise it is fair enough to ask to be kicked after 5 minutes and explain why. If the group refuse to kick you they can't complain about you not participating either. And once the first person has been kicked the group is missing someone and leaving is not penalized.

callumf

mentinmindmaker said:

11k is way way too low for RAQ. I think I have ended up with a playable group in FBI/MSP only once, otherwise it has been full of 11-12k people that has no business whatsoever in FBI/MSP. RAQ limit should be 14k.

I never do so long runs with so understrenght groups.. I know they will fail so not wasting much time. But usually someone leaves after a short while so it is fine. Otherwise it is fair enough to ask to be kicked after 5 minutes and explain why. If the group refuse to kick you they can't complain about you not participating either. And once the first person has been kicked the group is missing someone and leaving is not penalized.

Exactly- I want to at least have a chance to finish FBI or MSP, not waste 30 minutes of my life massively failing at content that a bunch of 14k iL might have some good fun doing

namelesshero347

Yesterday I was lucky enough to get a mSP group with only one 13K and every one else 14-16K. The run was pretty easy and done in 30 minutes. Even though that 13K looked like a carry.

I'd be happy if RAQ ilevel was raised to 13K. That is the benchmark I currently use. I see toon under 13K and no 16K GWF, I am out.

cerberusxll

sandukutupu said:

spunkmeier said:

sandukutupu said:

I just checked the game, this system seems to be doing its job. Zen backlog is now at 6.9 million and dropping. If you do trade AD for Zen, it will only be a week wait and not a month.

Not really.

You need to understand that the only reason the backlog increased to such a high level was due to people wanting Zen for the summer sale. The demand for Zen is just currently not as high now as there is no salei.

Not really.

People are buying Zen and there are fewer AD farmers to pay out. The AD farmers are throwing in the towel \o/ players win!

not really.

where's your evidence and/or data to back this up?

this trend of zen demand dropping is nothing new, it happens after every zen market sale comes to an end. people who had zen leftover are selling what they had left. that's cutting the backlog more than anything else.

I agree with the other guy.

chivonica

sandukutupu said:

spunkmeier said:

sandukutupu said:

I just checked the game, this system seems to be doing its job. Zen backlog is now at 6.9 million and dropping. If you do trade AD for Zen, it will only be a week wait and not a month.

Not really.

People are buying Zen and there are fewer AD farmers to pay out. The AD farmers are throwing in the towel \o/ players win!

I am so confused.

Above you say its doing its job and helping the AD -> Zen traders get quicker Zen but then go on to say that there are fewer AD farmers as they are giving up on the system and the players win?

So which is it? Who are the players? Who wins? Are the zen sellers not players? The AD sellers not players? The Zen sellers are going to get more for their money when the prices drop below 500 or the AD farmers who hoarded millions/10s/100s of millions of AD going to get more Zen for their AD when prices drop below 500 instead of selling right now?