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How do you guys feel about the new Ad refinement changes, 100k cap for entire account?

thatguy321654987thatguy321654987 Posts: 39Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
For me, i'm torn. It's cool if i just want to play for a bit with my main, where i can easily fill to the cap within 1-2 hours of playtime. But when i want to play my alts after i've reached that cap, it kind of sucks as you can no longer grind for extra AD.

It's a pro for newer players and a con for older players i think. It is nice to not have to transfer all that salvage to my alts, but at the same it stings because now those alts will just collect dust. Maybe sell them for some AD? That'd be nice.

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Comments

  • cerberusxllcerberusxll Posts: 387Member Arc User
    at first I thought it wouldn't inconvenience me because I didn't think I refined that much in a day anyway, seeing as I make most of my AD from buying and selling, but after experiencing things, I realise that it has hit me, a lot harder than I originally thought it would.

    for me, and players like me, it renders AD boost from invoking obsolete, as getting to the 100k per day is too easy, so much so that I stopped passing salvage to alts and am already 300k backlogged in unrefined AD. I also think this change makes any 2X AD events that may be scheduled in the future pointless as people will just be in massive backlog.

    their claim that this won't impact most players is downright wrong in my opinion and I think they knew this from the very start when they tried to mislead everyone. the only people I can think who won't be affected by these changes, are new players with maybe only one or two characters.
    Cerberus | Scylla | Orion | Makelo | Nemesis | Ares | Artemis | Asclepius | Nyx | Hades | Dexithea | Dolos | Demonax | Athena | Enyo | Medusa | Talos | Alcyone
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Posts: 954Member Arc User
    Brilliant for me. I don't have as much time to play as I used to, as I got employed. Always had a stupidly huge amount of unrefined AD on main, and that's going down, and I'm happy.
  • regenerderegenerde Posts: 2,425Member Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Well, as mentioned before players will find a way around this limit... and guess what?
    Yesterday i've seen another botter or "multiboxer" running Small Heroic Encounters with a whole bunch of similar characters.

    But the Devs and some players still dream, that this new restriction will change everything for good...
    and the same was said about removing rAD from Leadership.
    and the same was said about removing rAD from Invoking.
    Do you start seeing a pattern here?
    :D

    And before you break out the Champagne and start celebrating, that the ZAX backlog has dropped below the 10m AD mark, keep in mind that they have a ZEN charge promotion running at the moment, and that this promotion will end in a while.

    Anyway, as mentioned in the official feedback thread, i never paid much attention to the refining limit before, but the last few days i made sure to reach the limit every. single. day., and i doubt that i'm the only one doing that from now on.
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • shadoewraythshadoewrayth Posts: 178Member Arc User
    I get that it was/is out of hand, but for those of us who have never been ridiculously wealthy in AD, or are new, it creates a huge gap between the wealthy and the rest, where the only real hope of getting up there anytime soon is to buy keys in the zen market, and hope for a lucky pull to sell, which I think is more the point of this. Before, a new player could max out, shift AD to zen, buy new character slots, max out, do daily randoms etc, and build up a nice cushion of AD pretty fast, and if they wanted to buy anything, just took a few weeks to exchange. They could honestly play the game free, and end up with a year of VIP within No time at all, and also buy whatever mounts, companions, etc to boot.

    Now, at 100K a day, takes 5 days to get enough for a month of VIP, so, 2 months to get a year (yes, still takes weeks to exchange), and at that time, still be completely AD broke. Meanwhile, the wealthy are still ridiculously wealthy, have decades of VIP, tons of Zen, etc. The only thing this did was push new players to want to buy Zen even more, to try and get across that gap faster than years of playing, which, since it takes all of a week to get to 70, and a few months to finish every campaign, is really a drag to see that you’re still a year away from being anywhere near ‘on the level’ with those truly wealthy players, no matter how much you play, because there is now a major throttle on earning potential.
  • tribbulatertribbulater Posts: 130Member Arc User
    edited July 2018
    It appears to be a poorly designed attempt to control the AD bloat in the game. As Shadoe said above, AD reserves are out of hand for a certain portion of the player base. If you could Random, Epic Random, do salvage and weeklies and whatnot and do it all fast and easy because you've levelled/booned/geared your main and a bunch of alts, I could see that your 36k per char limit might lead to several hundred thousand AD per day - on someone who was really dedicated to running 7 chars through the daily limit.

    If, like me, you had 5 characters, and only had time to run them through one dungeon per day (and not always that), then even with the invoking bonus you were refining a maximum of 55k AD per day (11k per char, dungeon bonus plus invoking bonus).

    To put that in perspective, if I wanted to do the basic move of 'buy 3 rank 7 bonding runestones for companions', for each of my characters, that was essentially all my AD output for 10 days to put the basics on my characters. And that's one of the cheaper upgrade steps.

    For anyone newer/more casual, who isn't packed with boons and gear and upgrades, 55k AD per wasn't breaking any economies. The new system, however, means I am lucky to process 18k per day - 1st run gives me 12k (with invoke bonus), 4 repeat runs gives me 1.5k each. Now if I want to put 3 rank 7 bonding runestones on a single companion, it takes me 5-6 days to earn the AD to do so, playing 5 chars an hour and half a day.

    From what I can see even going VIP doesn't help with this, as the limits and the earning amounts stay the same whether I am VIP or not.

    Tl;dr:
    - The system may limit some AD farmers, but for newer/casual players it literally cripples their AD earning potential
    - It does nothing to encourage VIP purchase
    - It discourages players from playing past the minimum amount required
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,983Member Arc User
    I love it. I no longer spend hours running dungeons on four alts because I feel I have to in order to keep up with others who do. I'm still running RQ because I need the primal gear on all toons. But when I am done getting them, I look forward to spending only 1-2 hours in mod 14 to get my daily RAD fill.
  • c3rb3r3c3rb3r3 Posts: 275Member Arc User
    edited July 2018
    I never liked playing alts. So i'm fine sticking with my .. gwf ? jk I hate my main so I hit my 100k AD cap in 1 hour since it's way easier and play other games :P
  • regenerderegenerde Posts: 2,425Member Arc User
    Well, if you want to "keep up with others" these days, you've to "run" more then just one account...
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • grimahgrimah Posts: 1,658Member Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Doesn't effect me much, makes it more streamlined for sure. Even if i do go over the cap on some days I don't play every single day of the year (not counting login). I find it hard to believe majority of players couldn't eventually refine all the AD over time unless they completely no-life the game. However that's not to say there wouldn't be those affected by it.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
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  • shadoewraythshadoewrayth Posts: 178Member Arc User
    c3rb3r3 said:

    I hit my 100k AD cap in 1 hour since it's way easier and play other games :P

    While so many games are busy trying to find ways to keep their players locked into their games 24/7, and forget every other game... ^^ THIS ^^ is what PWE did by making the AD change they did. I have seen so many say that they reach the cap, do a few maintenance things, log out, and go play other games, or do other activities. Some say it takes 1-2 hours, some only 15-30 minutes. The result is the same: people barely playing, only staying in just long enough to do the base minimum required for maxing AD and checking campaign progress completions/AH sales. That's not a good thing for this game I think...
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Doesn't really affect me much. I have 16 alts, but 8 of them are just level 20-something banking alts. The other 8 (one of each class) are all level 70 in full Primal gear. However, I really only play my main - well, at least 95% of the time.....mostly just log in the others to do Leadership/Alchemy tasks, or stronghold events.

    I generally don't focus on random queues at all, but get most of my rAD from salvage. As I mostly play on weekends, I may not reach 100K on weekdays, but I easily exceed that on weekends and then refine the backlog over the week.

    My main source of income is the AH, though.

    Now, I have noticed one improvement - on the rare occasions when I do a random queue I am seeing better geared people than before. I guess many people are now only sending their (well-geared) main characters through the RQ.

    So, overall....a slight positive. I like it that the game basically now encourages you to focus on a single character, instead of managing an army of alts.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 1,117Member Arc User
    It made my life much easier. No need to switch character to salvage anymore. I hate logging on multi character just to farm AD. I like to farm all my AD on one single character. So I like the changes.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 6,528Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2018
    kangkeok said:

    It made my life much easier. No need to switch character to salvage anymore. I hate logging on multi character just to farm AD. I like to farm all my AD on one single character. So I like the changes.

    You do need to switch character because of AD bonus.
    You do want to run different capable toon to earn rAD because of AD bonus.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 1,117Member Arc User
    edited July 2018

    kangkeok said:

    It made my life much easier. No need to switch character to salvage anymore. I hate logging on multi character just to farm AD. I like to farm all my AD on one single character. So I like the changes.

    You do need to switch character because of AD bonus.
    You do want to run different capable toon to earn rAD because of AD bonus.
    Oh I don't care about the bonus AD from other character anymore. I still able to hit cap by playing one. But thanks for the tips.
  • midnightitamidnightita Posts: 212Member Arc User
    adinosii said:


    Now, I have noticed one improvement - on the rare occasions when I do a random queue I am seeing better geared people than before. I guess many people are now only sending their (well-geared) main characters through the RQ.

    So, overall....a slight positive.

    Lucky you, in all of my Random Queues I only found very low geared people (11k-12k in FBI/MSP, no bondings, trash gear on companions, no weapon enchantments, etc.) and I HAD TO carry them through the entire dungeon, and yes it was stressful. The other option was to leave, wait 30 min penalty, repeat. Yeah, great.

    I said I wouldn't like this change and I don't like it. 100k per day as of now is nothing, considering the prices in the AH. It literally takes you months to make small progress now. (sorry new players)

    Also personally, once I made my daily 100k rough AD I just don't see a reason to keep playing.

  • thevampinatorthevampinator Posts: 300Member Arc User
    I personally have mixed feelings about it. It does lower prices I think. Maybe making it possible for me to try for the swarm mount. So far I've managed to get up to 8 million the higest amount of ad I've ever had in this game by selling stuff that I never bothered to sell before. So hopefully the prices go down on those mounts and don't go up til I get the ad funds to get it.
  • chivonicachivonica Posts: 97Member Arc User
    Over the years I have learnt not to "invest" or throw money at companies in the gaming industry unless I really enjoy the game, can make good progression without feeling forced to spend and there is no real over blatant P2W.

    The above criteria is becoming harder and harder for me to find in a lot of games nowadays.

    I understand the RQs bonuses/system was not around before I re-joined the game, but for me it was all I knew as a returning/new player. I used that system within the rules to progress my characters with the aim of seeing Neverwinter and all it's content and catching up so I could enjoy it with others.

    That system has been ripped out from beneath the feet and gutted to oblivion. Not just one adjustment but a myriad of targeted reductions in the guise of being beneficial imo. I know that might sound harsh but I used to play STO waaay back too and saw the same things happen in that game, literally the same things.

    So I am not surprised, I am actually happy this happened sooner rather then later, before I threw my money at this game because I do enjoy it very much but the progression will become terrible unless future Mods/patches rectify it.

    As it stands I have 8 characters and I only now play 2. The others are gaining BRAD every day for pretty much nothing. This is not a system that encourages me personally to play more or spend more, just the opposite. It is sad really because I find these kind of things prevalent in high profile IP games with dedicated player base and the majority get treated like just a number while expecting the customers to remain loyal. On many forums people will say something like:

    "In order for the lights to stay on........" or "The devs have families to feed......" or "The devs need salaries" etc etc.

    This is all well and nice but you cant humanise something like that when punched in the face or nuts and then be told "Well they are a business". Yes they are and they want our hard earned money. To me its like blackmail, in order to have a decent experience you have to x,y,z. Well I don't give in to black mail so to speak, exercise a bit of self control and restraint or find something that isn't detrimental to my experience and time put in to play. You just gotta have a bit of self respect.
  • soditalloversoditallover Posts: 88Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    until a useful needed ad sink is introduced the economy will not stabilize and 100k a day is far less then a player needs at this time to make any reasonable progress, the short term impact of this change was negligible to the total of ad in the game.

    an idea i had for an ad sink would be that a player could donate unrefined Rad to a guild coffer instead of ad giving players guild marks and guilds a boost, or exchange Rad for rp & or gold as a lot of new players need rp and gold
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2018

    until a useful needed ad sink is introduced the economy will not stabilize and 100k a day is far less then a player needs at this time to make any reasonable progress,

    But rAD is only a part of players income - and not necessarily the biggest part. Have you seen the price of UES recently? (OK, it is going to drop with the upcoming event, but selling those has been really profitable). Same goes for farming and selling Ravenloft maps and even things like Apocalypse artifact gear (until the price drops, of course).

    Selling lockbox drops, masterwork items, enchants etc...etc...

    You just have to be a bit smart and then you can make millions per week.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • cdnbisoncdnbison Posts: 796Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    regenerde said:


    :D

    And before you break out the Champagne and start celebrating, that the ZAX backlog has dropped below the 10m AD mark, keep in mind that they have a ZEN charge promotion running at the moment, and that this promotion will end in a while.

    People were also getting ready for the Jubilee sale 6-8 weeks in advance, too, spiking the backlog to about 23M, so I'm guessing that a lot of the backlog was cleared up because of that. A Zen sale on top of that should reduce it further.

    The AD changes will take time to make an impact, though. The dam is - hopefully - fixed, but there is still a lot of floodwater to be drained off before things are back to anything resembling normal.

  • shadoewraythshadoewrayth Posts: 178Member Arc User
    adinosii said:

    Maybe the devs should just have gone and said:

    "We want to discourage the playing style where people mindlessly run dozens of characters through the same content over and over, and encourage people to play a smaller number of characters in more varied and more challenging content. The "army of alts" approach is mind-numbing - it is not good for the players and not good for the game's economy"

    That's what this is really about, from my perspective.

    Pray tell, what is this varied content you speak of? Most people I know in the game (and I just started on PC about the 20th of last month, so, this applies to new players too) are mind-numbingly running hunt after hunt after hunt after hunt after hunt after hunt after hunt, etc... They log in, do their randoms, then do hunts for a few hours, then log out. They aren't running dungeons, doing campaigns, etc unless they have a new character, and even then, they are blasting as fast as they can to 70, ignoring all of the 1-69 content as much as possible, and even attempting to ignore campaigns if they can.

    This has not made people play varied content, or even challenging content, as the hunts are easy-mode, even with cards, most of the time, as it is almost always a 5-person group, and at least 2 of them are 16K+ IL. So, no... players are logging in, maxing the cap, and either doing hunts, or logging out. At least having a higher cap, or caps on multiple characters, kept players involved and doing various runs for salvage. I saw tons of CN, etc before... now, I almost fell out of my chair yesterday because my alliance decided to do Tia/EDemo!! (instead of mindlessly hunting)
  • sangrinesangrine Posts: 575Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2018
    I play three main characters, and have three low-geared alts.
    Each main character does one random queue. All salvage is sent to my 3 alts.
    All 6 characters are invoked to maximum every day.
    With VIP rank 12 + invoke bonus + DC bonus (for playing DC on advanced queue),
    I earn 100k per day in less time than before.

    Overall, I prefer the new system because I spend less time doing random queue's,
    and more time doing other things.

    100k rad/day is enough for me, but If Cryptic were to increase the refine limit to 150k/day or 200k/day,
    then that would be perfect for me. 100k/day is enough, but a slightly higher limit would be appreciated.
  • thatguy321654987thatguy321654987 Posts: 39Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Well i've been playing these past few days, and i'm finding that my AD is starting to pile up. Before i would throw extra salvage down to my alts, and max out their days worth but now that's not an option. I'm finding that i don't like this new change, for me, but i can see that benefit for certain situations. Though, i've noticed that it's easier to max it out. Especially with my main, so i can't complain all that much.

    And i agree with this comment:
    sangrine said:

    I play three main characters, and have three low-geared alts.
    Each main character does one random queue. All salvage is sent to my 3 alts.
    All 6 characters are invoked to maximum every day.
    With VIP rank 12 + invoke bonus + DC bonus (for playing DC on advanced queue),
    I earn 100k per day in less time than before.

    Overall, I prefer the new system because I spend less time doing random queue's,
    and more time doing other things.

    100k rad/day is enough for me, but If Cryptic were to increase the refine limit to 150k/day or 200k/day,
    then that would be perfect for me. 100k/day is enough, but a slightly higher limit would be appreciated.

  • tgwolftgwolf Posts: 248Member Arc User
    I went from refining 36k daily per character to having 4 accounts and mailing salvage to each then buying trash items from my main account for 100k each day.

    Results in basically the same income for less effort, salvage farming is easy with no need to run dungeons that are all time wasting for little reward.

    Overall it's just a terrible system that keeps the wealthy, wealthy and the poor, poor. We need to institute some kind of Tax on those overly wealthy players, forcing them to spend while preventing them from earning until they fall in line.

    Not those players just doing alright for themselves, just the obscenely wealthy.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,290Member Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Nothing changed in my case, I invoke and I run endcontent on 2-3 chars.
    I swap loot to for the best AD/refine-ration between chars.
    If the wanted to improve things they should have changed invoking-bonus account wide, or simply scip that bonus, to release me from that urge to swap stuff between chars.
    Prices will go down I guess, but that´s also no big improvement in the long run. Maybe there is less daily AD in the game but supply and demand will balance out once again. You earn less for sold stuff, you pay less for stuff.
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