Today is 2months since The Crazy Misfits StrongHold was High Jacked/STOLEN... I have not heard a thing from cryptic.. not surprised. Sadden by the fact they have and continue to allow people to come into the game and totally disregard Terms of Service. Allow someone to completely take a Guild/SH over, sell it, delete, whatever, without a word.. nice..thank you.
As of today our NEW Stronghold is now Rank 7. We have the farm, quarry, lumberyard, mine, and marketplace at Rank 3 along with our first boon plot which is at Rank 3. We just put in the warehouse, and are currently working on getting the marketplace ranked up to 4. We were denied our spot with our old alliance as they deemed we would be more a hindrance than anything. Thankfully we found a great Alliance that does not think that way.. they believe in helping one another. So with their help and our guild members hard work we have gotten alot accomplished in such a short time. Thought I would let you all know that The Crazy Misfits are still around and holding strong.. basically cryptic and the HAMSTER can kiss my you know what. BTW We started all this on May 7th. That may give you an idea how hard we have been working!
Jen'A'Dar Royal Pain The Crazy Misfits Founder/Guild Leader
Sorry to see you got scammed. Nothing is worse than a thief. I'm rank 6 in my guild. The only rank 7s are the owner and her husband. The only person who promotes and demotes is the owner. Keeps things simple and protects everyone. I sincerely hope you're able to get your stuff back. Too bad you can't meet this POS in real life. I'd hold him for you.
We will never see anything that was taken out of the Guild Bank.. but thats oks.. that was never the point.. been through enough 'bank thiefs' to know you will never get anything back.. even when its a cryptic glitch..even when it was an actual 'hack'... but thats an old story.. Thank you for the offer..
It is my understanding that STO has a lot better protection against these scams. There is a time period in which other r7s can stop a demotion of another r7. I think it takes 24 hours for the change to happen. Perhaps our game needs to adopt the STO method.
Promoted Fleet Admirals in STO are on probation for 30 days, with limited capabilities. I got promoted when Armadas were introduced, and had to bug the other admirals to do the armada stuff I negotiated with the other fleets for me.
It is my understanding that STO has a lot better protection against these scams. There is a time period in which other r7s can stop a demotion of another r7. I think it takes 24 hours for the change to happen. Perhaps our game needs to adopt the STO method.
Promoted Fleet Admirals in STO are on probation for 30 days, with limited capabilities. I got promoted when Armadas were introduced, and had to bug the other admirals to do the armada stuff I negotiated with the other fleets for me.
I think it's 14 days, not 30, but yes, I had the same experience.
Additionally, only one R7 can be demoted at a time, demoted R7s are immediately locked out of guild functions but any *other* R7 (even another toon on the same account) may cancel their demotion, and it's a 14 day timer on the demotion.
So if you want to ensure you can *never* be kicked from your fleet, keep two toons at R7. If you want to ensure that no one account may steal the fleet, make sure there are three active R7s: it takes two, cooperating, to remove the third.
If you demote *yourself*, it's instantaneous, so you can quit without a problem.
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
Massive Credit Card Chargeback from all the member that had got something for the SGH upgrade?
Sorry, but if i spend real money, and my investment are protected in this way by the company, i will do that. Is not possible having an SGH stolen so easly, is really this the level of protection that Cryptic give to his user/Player?
People has spent real money on that SGH, real Money. Where is the added value that i've paid for? You can't give enought protection on this kind of scam? Cryptic Fault.
Good to see that "NOW" they are doing something about that, will see the implementation of their hard work in maybe mod 18/19.
Is not possible that the scammer are protected in this way by privacy reason, there is no privacy for scammer.
No, as Kreatyve points out, that is no solution at all.
What should be possible is for somebody in the US in the guild who was defrauded of real money goes to the police and they require Cryptic/PWE to release info on the scammer so they can investigate. What happens next depends on where the scammer is.
Several guild leaders in my alliance have been plagued by these scammers. It's ridiculous that they have more rights than players who pour their heart, soul and wallets into making their guild better for everyone involved. I'm not saying to name and shame but something has to be done. There's all those restrictions on new accounts but next to none for accounts joining guilds.
Here's some examples of what will help: - Setting one account as the guild's owner that can only be changed by that account. - A cooldown between an account joining and being either promoted or able to invite/kick or use moderator abilities. - Guild banks to have an option to lock out new members (because the scammers will hit the guild bank too) - Guild banks to have a request item option, so withdrawals have to be approved by someone of a higher rank. - Better tracking of guilds by Cryptic
All of that really, really sucks! For shame! It is horrible that it can happen to the people!
There is a simple solution to this to prevent it in the future. Introduce OWNER of the Guild as a separate branch only meant to evaluate who gets Leader, who doesn't etc. OWNER wouldn't be able to get banned by Leaders. Then make it impossible for a leader to ban another leader. Ultimately, a newly added person to the guild would need to register. It would be a timed process, taking up to 3 days to complete, before the person is able to be promoted. And finally, make a rule in the guild like "three days before any promotion". Think of it as a training period.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
That someone is currently using the current bad design and may be inconvenienced really isn't a convincing argument against putting in a long timer on co-leader demotions and kicking. Its a bad system.. good on whoever uses it as it exists, but it is currently more than inconveniencing large numbers of people and costing them 100% of their investment and time because a few people don't want to log in their main leader. Time to have some realistic priorities here.
Someone else brings up an issue about selling guilds and potential sellers remorse. That is also a straw man argument thats easily dealt with through documentation. We currently have technology for trades within the game as well as text submissions. It would be a trivial matter to implement a similar system for the transfer of a guild through promotion.
Use the trade mechanism
tokenize the promotion from 6-7 and make that token tradeable
add a text prompt as a tradeable token that can be read before accepting
use the text as a voluntary receipt
Even without an automated construct any large purchase should come with the documentation of an email receipt. Just because we are in a game environment doesn't mean that all the customs of business that we have developed over the milennia go out the window.
Its not like this kind of thing hasn't been dealt with before. As has been observed here there needs to be as much consideration for victims as there is for victimizers. The balance is completely skewed as it is and only leads to remorse of quality caring helpful players and placing a toll on those who stay.
Still sending hope that the game does right by the OP here.
Well as of today.. still nothing from Cryptic.. So lets just assume that My guild will never see THAT SH again.. but that is oks.. we are better than that.. we had our sulk and our temper tantrums and now we are putting on our big girl/boy panties on and marching forward..by Sunday July 8th our NEW SH will be Rank 8! Thanks all to you that have supported us. OH! If anyone is looking for a guild? And doesn't mind some odd balls..and a bit of 'hard' work.. shoot me a mail!
Jen'A'Dar Royal Pain The Crazy Misfits Founder/Guild Leader
It's sad that the scammer gets away scot-free with all your stuff and your guild has to start again from a scratch. Is this really the best that could have been done in this situation?
Well, I know that if this kind of thing occurred in a few other MMO's, support would actually step in to do right by their honest customers. This doesn't fill me with confidence regarding Cryptic (or whoever manages their support).
What I find ridiculous is that there is not a place to post who the culprit is. If this activity is acceptable then it should be equally acceptable to out the person (risk vs reward of their actions). Eve Online allows this activity but they also allow players to say who it is and give others a heads up on who is not to be trusted.
I understand the concerns about people getting harassed but there are already rules in place to prevent and punish that kind of activity.
The Devs have a decision to make. Allow this activity in their game and likewise not protect the culprit's identity or not allow this and protect the culprit's identity (which would make sense if the devs issued their own form of punishment for violating the EULA).
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
What I find ridiculous is that there is not a place to post who the culprit is. If this activity is acceptable then it should be equally acceptable to out the person (risk vs reward of their actions). Eve Online allows this activity but they also allow players to say who it is and give others a heads up on who is not to be trusted.
I understand the concerns about people getting harassed but there are already rules in place to prevent and punish that kind of activity.
The Devs have a decision to make. Allow this activity in their game and likewise not protect the culprit's identity or not allow this and protect the culprit's identity (which would make sense if the devs issued their own form of punishment for violating the EULA).
To allow naming and shaming would open up a whole can of worms. Forum staff for Neverwinter are not employees of Cryptic or PWE. We have no means to verify any claims. We are volunteers, just players like everyone else. So no, we will not be allowing the naming and shaming of any individuals on these forums.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
That is why I said they need to make a decision. They cannot allow that type of behavior and NOT allow players to tell others in order to prevent someone from HAMSTER over other guilds. On the other hand, if that behavior is not allowed, then the point is moot. Cryptic devs will look into it and do their thing and it isn't anyone's business at that point.
There is a simple mechanism to prevent this do not do text or promote based on chat, have constantly open parties and force other 7s (at least) to engage in voice chat and only promote once you have physically identified them from their voice (also exchange social media details with your other leadership so you can face-time/Skype etc so you know what each other look like). If they wont engage physically they should not be 7 imho!
I think if they adopted the STO method, it would work out fine. I am surprised they have not. People pay money into this game via Zen and that can directly contribute to stronghold resources. If the devs are okay (or unwilling to enforce their policies), with people scamming their way in and stealing a stronghold/guild, then my previous comment stands. I doubt that is what they want and it certainly is not something I want from Neverwinter.
This is why Guilds I run have ONE and only ONE max rank owner, Me. No-one else is ever put in a position of power that can let something like this happen.
This is why Guilds I run have ONE and only ONE max rank owner, Me. No-one else is ever put in a position of power that can let something like this happen.
That works, until your account is compromised. It also means that *you* can sell the guild at any time and there's nothing anyone else can do about it, which is a downside the STO method doesn't have.
What I find ridiculous is that there is not a place to post who the culprit is. If this activity is acceptable then it should be equally acceptable to out the person (risk vs reward of their actions). Eve Online allows this activity but they also allow players to say who it is and give others a heads up on who is not to be trusted.
I understand the concerns about people getting harassed but there are already rules in place to prevent and punish that kind of activity.
The Devs have a decision to make. Allow this activity in their game and likewise not protect the culprit's identity or not allow this and protect the culprit's identity (which would make sense if the devs issued their own form of punishment for violating the EULA).
To allow naming and shaming would open up a whole can of worms. Forum staff for Neverwinter are not employees of Cryptic or PWE. We have no means to verify any claims. We are volunteers, just players like everyone else. So no, we will not be allowing the naming and shaming of any individuals on these forums.
If that is the case, then Cryptic/PWE needs to make the entire process of investigation and outcome far more transparent. And timely.
That is why I said they need to make a decision. They cannot allow that type of behavior and NOT allow players to tell others in order to prevent someone from HAMSTER over other guilds. On the other hand, if that behavior is not allowed, then the point is moot. Cryptic devs will look into it and do their thing and it isn't anyone's business at that point.
This situation affects every player in the game. It's everyone's business.
From what I understand, this person has been doing this for some time.. unbelieveable, that it has been allowed to continue. We were NOT the only guild at that time to be hit by this person, there was at least SIX other guilds.. we were just unfortunate enough to fall for the scam. This person apparently has multi nicks along with accounts so it wouldn't matter if I said oh it was 'so n so' that did this, cause 'so n so' just dropped that nick and moved on.. oh it was on this 'account' well along with the nick they dropped that account.. this person is by NO means stupied.. pretty smart as they continue to get away with the stealing.. When this occured I was told by several people that this was a VERY well known scammer, yet, nothing has been done.. this person(s) continue to go around stealing whatever they can.. Oh Im sure they will wait a bit til things calm down, to try and steal another Guild.. but I don't think they will wait that long.
We have set up a better security system, one MUST come onto coms if they 'clam' to be a Rank 7 but on a different account, they MUST have the correct password. If they can't do either, they don't get promoted, yes getting back on the regular account and say 'hey I got a new account this is what it is, bring me into the guild' will get them invited, but NOT promoted until they come onto coms n say the password.. people can get their accounts hacked THAT is a known FACT. We have learned from our mistakes, I hope with this out there more guilds will be aware and not fall into the scammers trap.. Banks are still getting hit, even with not allowing anyone under Rank 5 to take anything or put anything in. Yes it can be a pain, but rather have to stop and go put something into the guild bank or go get something out, than come and find out there is nothing there, cause someone was able to 'hack' into it and take everything.. been there done it, got the hat n shirt to go with that..
Jen'A'Dar
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
We have set up a better security system, one MUST come onto coms if they 'clam' to be a Rank 7 but on a different account, they MUST have the correct password. If they can't do either, they don't get promoted, yes getting back on the regular account and say 'hey I got a new account this is what it is, bring me into the guild' will get them invited, but NOT promoted until they come onto coms n say the password.. people can get their accounts hacked THAT is a known FACT.
Not sure why the convoluted system, why the rank7 just don't invite and rank their own alts or second accounts.
Seriously wasn't trying to be 'convoluted' in anyway shape or form... just taking some extra steps to keep what happen from happening again.. yes, you are right, why not invite yourself, then promote yourself.. some do...
Comments
As of today our NEW Stronghold is now Rank 7. We have the farm, quarry, lumberyard, mine, and marketplace at Rank 3 along with our first boon plot which is at Rank 3. We just put in the warehouse, and are currently working on getting the marketplace ranked up to 4. We were denied our spot with our old alliance as they deemed we would be more a hindrance than anything. Thankfully we found a great Alliance that does not think that way.. they believe in helping one another. So with their help and our guild members hard work we have gotten alot accomplished in such a short time. Thought I would let you all know that The Crazy Misfits are still around and holding strong.. basically cryptic and the HAMSTER can kiss my you know what. BTW We started all this on May 7th. That may give you an idea how hard we have been working!
Jen'A'Dar
Royal Pain
The Crazy Misfits
Founder/Guild Leader
Moderator edited out profanity.
Additionally, only one R7 can be demoted at a time, demoted R7s are immediately locked out of guild functions but any *other* R7 (even another toon on the same account) may cancel their demotion, and it's a 14 day timer on the demotion.
So if you want to ensure you can *never* be kicked from your fleet, keep two toons at R7. If you want to ensure that no one account may steal the fleet, make sure there are three active R7s: it takes two, cooperating, to remove the third.
If you demote *yourself*, it's instantaneous, so you can quit without a problem.
What should be possible is for somebody in the US in the guild who was defrauded of real money goes to the police and they require Cryptic/PWE to release info on the scammer so they can investigate. What happens next depends on where the scammer is.
Here's some examples of what will help:
- Setting one account as the guild's owner that can only be changed by that account.
- A cooldown between an account joining and being either promoted or able to invite/kick or use moderator abilities.
- Guild banks to have an option to lock out new members (because the scammers will hit the guild bank too)
- Guild banks to have a request item option, so withdrawals have to be approved by someone of a higher rank.
- Better tracking of guilds by Cryptic
There is a simple solution to this to prevent it in the future.
Introduce OWNER of the Guild as a separate branch only meant to evaluate who gets Leader, who doesn't etc.
OWNER wouldn't be able to get banned by Leaders.
Then make it impossible for a leader to ban another leader.
Ultimately, a newly added person to the guild would need to register. It would be a timed process, taking up to 3 days to complete, before the person is able to be promoted.
And finally, make a rule in the guild like "three days before any promotion". Think of it as a training period.
Someone else brings up an issue about selling guilds and potential sellers remorse. That is also a straw man argument thats easily dealt with through documentation. We currently have technology for trades within the game as well as text submissions. It would be a trivial matter to implement a similar system for the transfer of a guild through promotion.
- Use the trade mechanism
- tokenize the promotion from 6-7 and make that token tradeable
- add a text prompt as a tradeable token that can be read before accepting
- use the text as a voluntary receipt
Even without an automated construct any large purchase should come with the documentation of an email receipt. Just because we are in a game environment doesn't mean that all the customs of business that we have developed over the milennia go out the window.Its not like this kind of thing hasn't been dealt with before. As has been observed here there needs to be as much consideration for victims as there is for victimizers. The balance is completely skewed as it is and only leads to remorse of quality caring helpful players and placing a toll on those who stay.
Still sending hope that the game does right by the OP here.
Jen'A'Dar
Royal Pain
The Crazy Misfits
Founder/Guild Leader
I understand the concerns about people getting harassed but there are already rules in place to prevent and punish that kind of activity.
The Devs have a decision to make. Allow this activity in their game and likewise not protect the culprit's identity or not allow this and protect the culprit's identity (which would make sense if the devs issued their own form of punishment for violating the EULA).
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
If they wont engage physically they should not be 7 imho!
This is a must. Reporting should take place from inside the game and time logs should probably exist.
We have set up a better security system, one MUST come onto coms if they 'clam' to be a Rank 7 but on a different account, they MUST have the correct password. If they can't do either, they don't get promoted, yes getting back on the regular account and say 'hey I got a new account this is what it is, bring me into the guild' will get them invited, but NOT promoted until they come onto coms n say the password.. people can get their accounts hacked THAT is a known FACT. We have learned from our mistakes, I hope with this out there more guilds will be aware and not fall into the scammers trap.. Banks are still getting hit, even with not allowing anyone under Rank 5 to take anything or put anything in. Yes it can be a pain, but rather have to stop and go put something into the guild bank or go get something out, than come and find out there is nothing there, cause someone was able to 'hack' into it and take everything.. been there done it, got the hat n shirt to go with that..
Jen'A'Dar