I'd say this is fun even at lower iLvLs. Reasons: at 12k and with nowhere around optimal gear, you till take away large chunks of the enemy's HPs. It allows you to target those higher iLvL toons that usually carry th whole team to victory, and bring them close to death fast. They will come straight after you and you will die a lot, but if the difference between the teams is not too big, you can focus those targets to close the gap between your team and the enemy team. When there's a high iLvL OP making the whole team immortal, or a GWF/GF exc...killing 3-4 of your team mates alone, you can focus them together with your team, kill them fast and then deal with the rest of the enemy team. It works.
I already saw these archers in PvP with my GWF, and was already considering the idea to try the build. Your post convinced me to give it a try. It's fun. For someone who does not care about K/D ratio, it's a glass cannon build that can actually be fun and contribute to the team victory.
I'm still working on the defensive side, because i'm missing some stuff, since i'm still very slow. Needs some more study on it and practice.
1) It's really only an extra 35 critsev, because to get it you kinda have to drop the archer feat that stacks an extra 15% power and critsev. That extra 35% crit costs you 10% crit chance, and 15% power. Testing it only pushed aimed strike up from around 250 to 280k, and that's the fully buffed version, plus if you miss a crit somewhere along the way, that's all your damage boost down the toilet anyway. You lose movement and piercing too.
2) The earlier combat feats are kinda useless tbh.
Tbh. you're fast enough without it. Unless miraculously all the buffs are up at once, you don't really notice the increases.
So full archery tree is still best imo. Happy pew-pewing to you all.
Side note, so many HAMSTER drainers out there these days. Disgusting. Even scrub drainer trapper HRs. Swear next time I'm gonna put on curse rings and say HAMSTER the lot of them.
No idea what my toon is now.
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
Tried it out today. At the third match I remembered that my skeleton steed healing was useless for this build and changed to my axe beak's armor penetration bonus, bringing me up from 65% to about 99.5%. Big difference - suddenly I went from the occasional kill and mostly being a nuisance to 10 kills and hilariously melting the other team's tank while he confidently stood there with his shield up. I don't have the play style down yet and it'll be a couple of weeks before I can buy a new vorpal (sold the old one to pay for upgrading my feytouched) but it's definitely more fun than the boring combat routine of no-damage, being useless against tanks and healers and TRs and anyone who can dodge, and bad animations like boar charge that control the HR for longer than they control the target.
Yeah, wish there was more clarity regarding the effectiveness of arpen in PvP. I can do 70%, 100% or 130% by switching out SH boons and/or mount bonuses, tried them all, and still not sure.
I can confirm. When a 12k HR takes them down from far, 14k+ GFs all geared suddenly PM you in anger. Priceless. Fun part is that on my GWF i met archery HRs and got killed by them, learned to spot them first and focus, and never got angry. Just thought "wow. that's new! Full DPS support in PvP instead of the usual 'be tanky AND deal monster damage'". Tried to calm them down and it was useless. Some classes/ players are too used to never die and play god in PvP.
Yesterday also got a TR saying his class is fine and balanced, and got nerfed so much, poor TR... I remember when during module 3, talking about GWFs, people were saying "you can't have the best of both worlds" (3 worlds actually, if we include CC). Now everyone is used to play classes who tank a lot, deal tons of damage very easily and can CC a lot. Playing a full offensive, ranged build feels refreshing. I was already thinking about trying the archery PvP path, but again, thank you jonkoca for convincing me. It's really fun and fresh. And tactical. You've always to think about positioning, make good use of stealth and movement, and choose carefully which enemies are priority targets (for example, 14k+ GFs who can kill 3 of your team mates alone and very fast, while also tanking on node with their shield up). TRs are still the most difficult to deal with. ITC, stealth and SoD+ high mobility, hard to face. Must really get them during those milliseconds when they are visible and vulnerable. Even so, at my gear i can hurt them but then they go stealth and roll away OR roll at me and SoD my HAMSTER down. :'D
About ArP: i believe we have 40% reduction in PvP, so to cap with DRI i believe you still must have high ArP...then you focus on power. Not sure about stats.
About the ArP, I noticed when below 60% a decline. I run 70% 'ish plus depending on my set bonuses. Tank types will melt faster when at 100% and higher but I am fine with the melt I experience with 70%+.
XBL is now 12.5 and I will remain a trapper. I know there have been changes, but only see it with the slight increase of damage I take. Otherwise, I am dishing out more damage now than in the prior mod. I made sure a few select stats showed 50% or better effectiveness and it seems to work.
We (XBL) are new to 12.5 so there is still some growing and grief to be had. I managed to leap to the middle of the first page from the last page (for me it was 17) which now the total is in the mid 30's. I mixed up my build and settled on a balance to be a rooting pain and survive. For me my column to be concerned with is Assists but along the way my Kills is something to smile about. I don't mind the revenge hate attacks, I can root till help arrives or wipe the attacker(s).
Combat seems to have taken a fat cucumber to the rear. I was helping friends this morning in a private and might have figured out what is needed.
In closing, with what I do now and know from past use of Archery, a hybrid is not warranted. I feel the full path is best and the synergy with staying in the path makes it shine.
Thanx for the arpen tips Teucer. I'll stick at 70 and use bonespurs instead of alphaboots.
You're welcome Pando, you seem to be one of the few decent and well-spoken pvp'ers left from the old days. Glad you like the build.
Ironic, in PvE archers are plagued because they draw too much aggro, now we're doing the same again in PvP. ☺
I might swap commanding shot for hindering, and take crushing for second class feat. Getting constantly ganked, focused and generally massacred is beginning to wear a little thin.
I did this build at beginning of mod12.5 worked great for a while. Then the big players like godfinger, saber an others learned to dial in on u and once word got to the rest in the match u die quickly and a lot. Lorilee has it working pretty good but is super squishy. I tried several hybrid builds and respected 8 times for max effect unparallel fey and full archer tree is really good with orcus set so when they get below half health they die faster stack power need 40k. Crit will hit about 95% easy enough with primal gear. Arm pen seems to mater till over 100 ri then more is not necessary. Trans negation will help u live a little longer. forrest ghost and ambush for defense. constrct longstriders and aimstrike work really fast ands recharge so can run perma rotation. I also have full on combat load out so once they get used to hunting archer I switch up and deal some melee damage so they don't know where or what I got hitting them with. Jonka I did oppose you 2 back to back matches the other day, ist one u beat the guys up pretty bad. we actually would have won that match but they became obsessed with u. the second match we were able to neutralize u so the archer was not that effective. So far the meta is to run 2 or 3 load outs in pvp and u can really cause the other team to get confused 1 time big dps archer then on death put in next tanky melee combat load out with pg and thorn strike.
Aravein
Post edited by jhpnw on
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
" A 2 second rotation from me at max distance and they are crippled. If I'm behind them, and they're fighting another toon, distracted, then they're dead. In short, though there are a lot of nice pvpers, I've been ganked, insulted, and corpse-jumped more often in the last week than I ever have in all the years I've been playing pvp."
That means you are doing something right ,, : D as a cw I would get insulted all the time back in the day ..
Post edited by kalina311 on
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thatsmeaswellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 60Arc User
I have switched from duelist cloak and dex belt to full valindra set +crushing roots instead of lone wolf and survivability as well as kills have well increased. Of course the damage has decreased a little but the short controls help a lot. Of course they are useless against shielded gf and unstoppable gwf.
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thatsmeaswellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 60Arc User
In addition the ap gain is way better with valindra
Thanx guys, damn, nothing new under the sun I guess Aravein. I'll balance power and arpen as you've outlined. The only other loadout I have is my combat pve build, again min/maxed for dps and relying on a DC/OP for survival lol... So hmm. Swore I wouldn't give cryptic any more moneyz but I'll maybe invest in some Zen for another loadout slot.
I dunno, I stopped being serious about pvp somewhere around mod7 when our damage compared to other classes really started to become laughable, and haven't really managed to summon the motivation to switch back to full-on PvP mode. To fund it I'd have to basically sell all my pet's enchants and become useless again in PvE. Never used to care, but now I've gotten used to being top of the paingiver and blowing through campaigns like a tornado on speed.
I internally debated (after getting slaughtered a lot by the toons you mentioned) going full troll with drains, curse and ambush rings (Even considered a ring of cowardice lol) but meh, also too used to being a "reputable player" whatever that means these days. Wish the pvp playerbase was still large enough to give more variety of both opponent and teammate... So I guess I'll play pvp for whatever laughs are still available, and hope godfinder and saber are asleep when I'm on. ☺
Yup, your cw pvp build is a monster Kalina. Whenever I saw you were on the other team, I'd be typing, "focus the cw" in party chat, and then when that didn't work I'd be typing "omg run away from the cw" about 2 minutes later. ☺
With respect to sets - Orcus and what not... I really enjoyed the uptime with a Perfect Negation and Valhalla set. (Did I spell that correctly) Had a tanky feel but the opposing CW or Trapper stings are annoying.
I will have to refine my Orcus set and give it a go at some point.
I am running 56% deflect and it helps with the GF charge, pop my free movement arti and begin my melt rotation.
I am fine if there is one or two on the other team that can control well enough to slow my roll. I manage with the Negation and Dex set currently but will have to give the Valindra a go. Running Crushing and Seeker's should be fun.
Ha, yeah, felt this would be a deflect mod so I ramped up. My LS is around 7.x%. I also maintain 54% CC, 70'ish% RI. Because we are not yet a rainbow Q, I will sacrifice power for 100%+ RI when I see more than one tank type on the other side.
I do need to respect, last night I noticed a feat and boon choices that I can change for the better.
Thanx guys, damn, nothing new under the sun I guess Aravein. I'll balance power and arpen as you've outlined. The only other loadout I have is my combat pve build, again min/maxed for dps and relying on a DC/OP for survival lol... So hmm. Swore I wouldn't give cryptic any more moneyz but I'll maybe invest in some Zen for another loadout slot.
Psst...download the arc client, follow the "quests" and get free zen, over 500/month, for seconds a day.
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
edited January 2018
Well, sold some extra enchants, bought a vorapl, unpgraded it to trans, and I don't really notice much dps improvement even against dummies versus feytouched. I'm sure someone's actually done the enchantment testing. Anyhow, I'm about 39.7k power without a companion, about 95% RI. My aimed shot crits tend to top out at about 230k after ambush/commanding/longstrider's but they were maybe 216k before. I'll keep the vorpal since wth, it's useful for my pve combat loadout, but I think as usual feytouched is overperforming. However, managed 1v1 to kill one of the most obnoxious, well known OCD tanks today who was dumb enough to just let me plink away at him with aimed shot too many times, and outkill one of the most well-known GWFs in a match, so despite being squishy as frak, I'm having fun with this build. If anything, I'm disappointed that I haven't started to get pm insults yet, though to be fair I've already ignored most of the pvpers who tend to send them. Also: managed to kill a paladin in an unexpected way by wearing him down from above, descending to the node to keep him from capping, planting an aimed strike and then running away while he bled to death. It's a little like playing TR before mod 5+ made that class so OP that only longtime TRs and those with no self-respect could play it anymore.
EDIT: On second testing, using the trans vorpal, I'm hitting the occasional 300k+ crit (after using Wheel/Fire) with Aimed Shot against stronghold dummies after Ambush, Commanding, Longstrider's. I tried Hawk Shot instead of Commanding but even at max distance the buff isn't as good, despite that the description says it should be better. Probably one of those many ninja nerfs they've inflicted on us.
Also getting ganked and focused a lot, but killing a lot of players, which wasn't happening so much when playing combat. Still squishy as frak.
remember use 2k power potions from AH for 2k power or strong hold potions for 1 k power and 5k hps also wild storm elixor or coridons blood from invoking to fill power or crit if need be and event food for power or crit
Yes, I've a feeling the tanks are in for a bad couple of months lol. As for the insults, give it time, or maybe they've already exhuasted their vitriol on me lol.
I think though, if we're honest, archer is really a temporary placeholder build, fun, but not hugely competitive. The Combat path's damage and survival needs an upgrade, and trapper also needs a damage upgrade, alongside a cc downgrade, because despite the so-called cc. nerf, it's still capable of permastunning.
If the meta for competitive level pvp HRs is maintaining 3 loadouts... then that's a really disgusting AD cost, not to mention grinding 3 sets of min-maxed gear for each build.
I have been running my pillar build. I upped deflect to be above 51%, switch between Negation and Elven to become a bit tankier. I also maintain 90%+ CC, 80% RI @31K power.
Confronting is not how you benefit from this build, nonetheless, I challenge the plate and pop off to get at max range. If timing is right, the Oghma helps with getting a few more shots on the tank types. Don't feel crushing roots does much and I will test it more later. I am not as reluctant as I was last week when peeps looked my direction and I flat-lined.
Nah, I tried crushing with both constricting and binding, but the effect was pretty much negligible, even the base root effect only seemed to work once in a blue moon. Went back to commanding and seekers.
I still curse the day when I accidently used my mythic oghma to refine another artifact, can't face levelling another tbh., especially now mod13 is close.
Anyone tried the strategist chest bonus..? Temporary hitpoints on damaging tanks..? Does it have an internal CD..? If it doesn't I could have like a bazillion temp HP lol.
No idea what my toon is now.
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
The strategist HP bonus has never made any difference that I could see.
thatsmeaswellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 60Arc User
Yes i have to admit the valindra + crushing is not as effective as i first thought, especially against those opponents where it would matter the most. Nevertheless there are moments where it shines so i will keep switching between sets according to the opponent at hand
Comments
If you get to premade and your teammates can protect you, you may want to try out the 50% crit severity from combat tree, holy HAMSTER lol.
I already saw these archers in PvP with my GWF, and was already considering the idea to try the build. Your post convinced me to give it a try. It's fun. For someone who does not care about K/D ratio, it's a glass cannon build that can actually be fun and contribute to the team victory.
I'm still working on the defensive side, because i'm missing some stuff, since i'm still very slow. Needs some more study on it and practice.
Okay, scratch the combat hybrid.
1) It's really only an extra 35 critsev, because to get it you kinda have to drop the archer feat that stacks an extra 15% power and critsev. That extra 35% crit costs you 10% crit chance, and 15% power. Testing it only pushed aimed strike up from around 250 to 280k, and that's the fully buffed version, plus if you miss a crit somewhere along the way, that's all your damage boost down the toilet anyway. You lose movement and piercing too.
2) The earlier combat feats are kinda useless tbh.
Okay, next up, hyperspeed.
Tbh. you're fast enough without it. Unless miraculously all the buffs are up at once, you don't really notice the increases.
So full archery tree is still best imo. Happy pew-pewing to you all.
Side note, so many HAMSTER drainers out there these days. Disgusting. Even scrub drainer trapper HRs. Swear next time I'm gonna put on curse rings and say HAMSTER the lot of them.
Yesterday also got a TR saying his class is fine and balanced, and got nerfed so much, poor TR...
I remember when during module 3, talking about GWFs, people were saying "you can't have the best of both worlds" (3 worlds actually, if we include CC).
Now everyone is used to play classes who tank a lot, deal tons of damage very easily and can CC a lot. Playing a full offensive, ranged build feels refreshing. I was already thinking about trying the archery PvP path, but again, thank you jonkoca for convincing me. It's really fun and fresh. And tactical. You've always to think about positioning, make good use of stealth and movement, and choose carefully which enemies are priority targets (for example, 14k+ GFs who can kill 3 of your team mates alone and very fast, while also tanking on node with their shield up).
TRs are still the most difficult to deal with. ITC, stealth and SoD+ high mobility, hard to face. Must really get them during those milliseconds when they are visible and vulnerable. Even so, at my gear i can hurt them but then they go stealth and roll away OR roll at me and SoD my HAMSTER down. :'D
About ArP: i believe we have 40% reduction in PvP, so to cap with DRI i believe you still must have high ArP...then you focus on power. Not sure about stats.
XBL is now 12.5 and I will remain a trapper. I know there have been changes, but only see it with the slight increase of damage I take. Otherwise, I am dishing out more damage now than in the prior mod. I made sure a few select stats showed 50% or better effectiveness and it seems to work.
We (XBL) are new to 12.5 so there is still some growing and grief to be had. I managed to leap to the middle of the first page from the last page (for me it was 17) which now the total is in the mid 30's. I mixed up my build and settled on a balance to be a rooting pain and survive. For me my column to be concerned with is Assists but along the way my Kills is something to smile about. I don't mind the revenge hate attacks, I can root till help arrives or wipe the attacker(s).
Combat seems to have taken a fat cucumber to the rear. I was helping friends this morning in a private and might have figured out what is needed.
In closing, with what I do now and know from past use of Archery, a hybrid is not warranted. I feel the full path is best and the synergy with staying in the path makes it shine.
You're welcome Pando, you seem to be one of the few decent and well-spoken pvp'ers left from the old days. Glad you like the build.
Ironic, in PvE archers are plagued because they draw too much aggro, now we're doing the same again in PvP. ☺
I might swap commanding shot for hindering, and take crushing for second class feat. Getting constantly ganked, focused and generally massacred is beginning to wear a little thin.
Aravein
+1
" A 2 second rotation from me at max distance and they are crippled. If I'm behind them, and they're fighting another toon, distracted, then they're dead. In short, though there are a lot of nice pvpers, I've been ganked, insulted, and corpse-jumped more often in the last week than I ever have in all the years I've been playing pvp."
That means you are doing something right ,, : D as a cw I would get insulted all the time back in the day ..
I dunno, I stopped being serious about pvp somewhere around mod7 when our damage compared to other classes really started to become laughable, and haven't really managed to summon the motivation to switch back to full-on PvP mode. To fund it I'd have to basically sell all my pet's enchants and become useless again in PvE. Never used to care, but now I've gotten used to being top of the paingiver and blowing through campaigns like a tornado on speed.
I internally debated (after getting slaughtered a lot by the toons you mentioned) going full troll with drains, curse and ambush rings (Even considered a ring of cowardice lol) but meh, also too used to being a "reputable player" whatever that means these days. Wish the pvp playerbase was still large enough to give more variety of both opponent and teammate... So I guess I'll play pvp for whatever laughs are still available, and hope godfinder and saber are asleep when I'm on. ☺
Yup, your cw pvp build is a monster Kalina. Whenever I saw you were on the other team, I'd be typing, "focus the cw" in party chat, and then when that didn't work I'd be typing "omg run away from the cw" about 2 minutes later. ☺
@thatsmeaswell, nice - good luck with your build.
I will have to refine my Orcus set and give it a go at some point.
I am running 56% deflect and it helps with the GF charge, pop my free movement arti and begin my melt rotation.
I am fine if there is one or two on the other team that can control well enough to slow my roll. I manage with the Negation and Dex set currently but will have to give the Valindra a go. Running Crushing and Seeker's should be fun.
I do need to respect, last night I noticed a feat and boon choices that I can change for the better.
EDIT: On second testing, using the trans vorpal, I'm hitting the occasional 300k+ crit (after using Wheel/Fire) with Aimed Shot against stronghold dummies after Ambush, Commanding, Longstrider's. I tried Hawk Shot instead of Commanding but even at max distance the buff isn't as good, despite that the description says it should be better. Probably one of those many ninja nerfs they've inflicted on us.
Also getting ganked and focused a lot, but killing a lot of players, which wasn't happening so much when playing combat. Still squishy as frak.
I think though, if we're honest, archer is really a temporary placeholder build, fun, but not hugely competitive. The Combat path's damage and survival needs an upgrade, and trapper also needs a damage upgrade, alongside a cc downgrade, because despite the so-called cc. nerf, it's still capable of permastunning.
If the meta for competitive level pvp HRs is maintaining 3 loadouts... then that's a really disgusting AD cost, not to mention grinding 3 sets of min-maxed gear for each build.
Confronting is not how you benefit from this build, nonetheless, I challenge the plate and pop off to get at max range. If timing is right, the Oghma helps with getting a few more shots on the tank types. Don't feel crushing roots does much and I will test it more later. I am not as reluctant as I was last week when peeps looked my direction and I flat-lined.
I still curse the day when I accidently used my mythic oghma to refine another artifact, can't face levelling another tbh., especially now mod13 is close.
Anyone tried the strategist chest bonus..? Temporary hitpoints on damaging tanks..? Does it have an internal CD..? If it doesn't I could have like a bazillion temp HP lol.