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before you fix double dc's
onlymat
Member Posts: 353 Arc User
My main is a 14,8 k DO/DC - I always have been and I never was haste DC or AC because its popular or was popular.....
please wait how Bonding runestones nerf will change the DC's.
You will change the random queues to only get AD from random runs - so there is only 1 DC in party - the double dc will be less in demand.
People need longer for daily dungeon runs and without getting AD from premade there is no need for a fix of double DC's.
If you want to fix the DC's to make them heal more, then you have to increase heals of a DC.
I would then like to see CRIT heals (critical strikes heals) improved alot so people can also go for this route.
The main Problem is then, that DO DC's are bad again. You can't heal oneshots and a DO dc has much harder time to protect the group.
AA is much better for protecting the group.
If you add more heals to DC you have to nerf lifesteal alot. On my 13,7 cw I never need heals but buffs.....
If you nerf lifesteal I will not survive as a cw in harder areas...... people will complain alot.
you change the dungeon runs to get AD only from random runs - you nerf bondings - wait until you do something to DC's.
If you really want to change things then improve healing as first step for DC's and you can forbid to have 2 DC's in same Party.
use the time instead to rework TR or SW - much better invest in time.
please wait how Bonding runestones nerf will change the DC's.
You will change the random queues to only get AD from random runs - so there is only 1 DC in party - the double dc will be less in demand.
People need longer for daily dungeon runs and without getting AD from premade there is no need for a fix of double DC's.
If you want to fix the DC's to make them heal more, then you have to increase heals of a DC.
I would then like to see CRIT heals (critical strikes heals) improved alot so people can also go for this route.
The main Problem is then, that DO DC's are bad again. You can't heal oneshots and a DO dc has much harder time to protect the group.
AA is much better for protecting the group.
If you add more heals to DC you have to nerf lifesteal alot. On my 13,7 cw I never need heals but buffs.....
If you nerf lifesteal I will not survive as a cw in harder areas...... people will complain alot.
you change the dungeon runs to get AD only from random runs - you nerf bondings - wait until you do something to DC's.
If you really want to change things then improve healing as first step for DC's and you can forbid to have 2 DC's in same Party.
use the time instead to rework TR or SW - much better invest in time.
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However, if you run the private queue, you are able to run double DCs. Hell, you can run a full DC or any team composition you want.
The reason threads with topics like this are popping up are because the devs not so subtly hinted that they dislike how all the best teams want a DO DC and an AC DC.
(Which is translated to "DCs are gonna get nerfed Soon™")
> I am a dc and my question is. Me and my other dc friends are not going to be able to run together in a dungeon? We have all went threw lvling the hard grind when this class had terrible dps ability. Spent alot of money and time as everyone has. Had to help each other out to get threw dmg aspects of this game that was a struggle to obtain. Now can anyone clarify that 2 dc will not beable to play this game together anymore?
>
> In the 12.5 random epic dungeon queue system, you are unable to queue in as 2 DCs for a random run.
>
> However, if you run the private queue, you are able to run double DCs. Hell, you can run a full DC or any team composition you want.
>
>
> The reason threads with topics like this are popping up are because the devs not so subtly hinted that they dislike how all the best teams want a DO DC and an AC DC.
>
> (Which is translated to "DCs are gonna get nerfed Soon™")
Ty for your response. On the nerf note I really don't understand why they keep nerfing. All it does is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ppl off. They need to just give the sw cw tr gwf a paragon path to be viable at giving buffs. That would be very viable and add alot of ppl to run dungeon as all classes.
> > @rjc9000 said:
> > I am a dc and my question is. Me and my other dc friends are not going to be able to run together in a dungeon? We have all went threw lvling the hard grind when this class had terrible dps ability. Spent alot of money and time as everyone has. Had to help each other out to get threw dmg aspects of this game that was a struggle to obtain. Now can anyone clarify that 2 dc will not beable to play this game together anymore?
> >
> > In the 12.5 random epic dungeon queue system, you are unable to queue in as 2 DCs for a random run.
> >
> > However, if you run the private queue, you are able to run double DCs. Hell, you can run a full DC or any team composition you want.
> >
> >
> > The reason threads with topics like this are popping up are because the devs not so subtly hinted that they dislike how all the best teams want a DO DC and an AC DC.
> >
> > (Which is translated to "DCs are gonna get nerfed Soon™")
>
> Ty for your response. On the nerf note I really don't understand why they keep nerfing. All it does is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ppl off. They need to just give the sw cw tr gwf a paragon path to be viable at giving buffs. That would be very viable and add alot of ppl to run dungeon as all classes.
Mostly the cw tr and sw classes
The cleric specialty was in fact never power sharing, read the cleric description at the character selection page or look at all the healing related feat/encounters/dailies. In the queues I see the role "healer" mentioned, I don't see "power sharer". I have yet to see a senior developer or any other authority from Cryptic declare that the role of the cleric is power sharing, that being the case I do find it valid to say that they need to make healing viable.
Miss times when it actually took some skill to play this class. Now all it takes is money/being able to get urself bondings and stack all this Power and yey, u are good to go.
Ive noticed (when running 2 DC parties nonstop) that people dont even bother to use encounters properly, they just spam AA to share dat oh so useful Power lol.
Its sad. I really, REALLY wish they nerfed it to the ground and removed Bondings completely. Maybe then the game would be somehow challenging.
YouTube
Santa Claus --GF
Gargamel --CW
Im just against Power sharing.
YouTube
Do tanks need to be balanced yes, but I think that comes after they balance the healers and set a focus on what they want them doing. I would love to see the day when endgame dungeon runs are built around 1 tank(either class) 3 dps(any 3) and 1 healer(devOP or DC)!
If you need a healer, you can grab OP or templock, even CW can spit out some solid heals. So do DCs think they need a spot in groups? No, but its nice for people to want you versus the alternative of being TR which only gets attention at 17K ilvls and is still considered a second class citizen.
And when people want a tank, they grab GF and Pally, its not an "or" scenario.
But don't forget we suffered for 5 mods in all DPS configuration meta. All CW to be precise.
The game should never be 1 tank, 3 dps, 1 healer meta. Ideally (as @miyanaa indicated) you'd end up with a 1 tank, 1 crowd control, 1 AOE DPS, 1 Single Target DPS, and 1 healer. But the content would have to fit the meta and I don't see them reworking the content this way. First they killed the tanking skill requirement by not requiring positioning for CA (making mark give combat advantage), then they killed healing (with to much self heals tanks no longer needed to position mobs to avoid AOEs on party and healer role no longer required), then they removed cc from half the mobs and the other half die to fast to require it, and now its just a keyboard pounding dps race.
As for Fighter they have two jobs; damage and holding threat so that the squishier classes can do their thing and that is produce high damage for the team.
This is a MMO game and most other MMO games you don't have an ability to sap enough health so healers don't need to heal.
IMO...power sharing should be removed as standard feat and only be included when you are an AC/DC and only off BoB. AA would provide a damage buff and shield. Similar to a DO damage buff but at a lower % due to AC having the ability to share power when using BoB.
These minor changes would fix the buffing side of a DC.
The other issue is Life Steal. As I stated in the Life Steal thread the devs should adjust the % we receive. That would boost the need for a healer and when the devs adjust the DC buffing they should increase the amount of healing done on the HoT and Burst heals. This would make DC vialbe as a healer, remove the crazy DC buffing and balance out both DC. It would not remove the two DC mentality as groups would still want them for their ability to buff though, but it would reduce their buffing capability and put more emphasis on healing.
The other thing the devs can do is remove the private que system from the game. This way, as players, we are encouraged to run more balanced group even with preformed groups. No more two tanks, two healer in runs. If the devs do this; they would have to incorporate a buffer role into the game and allow classes that buff to select that role based on their build.
This can needs to grow and expand as does the community thoughts on where this game is today. Simply leaving it as is; well there are many flaws and issues in the present state. If the devs cannot fix these issues now; it will only get worst as the game continues to add higher stats through gear, enchantments, boons, etc...
When you look under queuing for a dungeon and it says "Group Requirements"1 Tank 1 Healer 3Dps, I am pretty sure that was always their intention on how dungeons should be run. And this is where I want to see the two classes that can fill that role dev pally and DC, to be equal.
Yes private ques have opened up some pretty large doors that have created the 2tanks 2 dc, 1 dps meta. I don't want private ques to go away, but I feel those groups are pretty much breaking the game(apparently so do the dev's). It is making it be "a keyboard pounding dps race. I think this is why the devs have a focus on random ques.
i'm still for private queues, they let us to experiment and run with our friends. No reason rewards for private queues can't be diminished in comparison to public queues.
On another thread someone mentioned setting up queues so everyone gets a role and the role selection determines a buff for the run. Example a tank could get a +RI buff, healer role would take a +outgoing heals, cc role gets a +cc buff, etc. Would be very similar to the orcus fight in buff mechanics in tong today.
The reality is all of this is pipe dreams because changing roles would be a huge undertaking. The early game had the mechanics for the D&D roles but the dungeons soon departed from that and only got worse as cc immunity got out of hand and all bosses became single target slug fests. If you look at the original mechanics of the original dungeons you had scenarios where crowd control was needed, heals were needed, tanks were needed. Then the set bonuses such as HV made CWs to tanky and the balances quickly changed. I don't think there is a going back.
The power-share mechanic is actually a more dynamic and interesting buff-mechanic because its strength does rely on several
factors...the dc´s stats/build, positioning, the recipients bondings, the recipients stats (as in less buff the more power the receiving toon has already) etc.
And if you compare it to the DO´s buffing potential that can be achieved AND applied much more easily (and boringly) how
exactly is power sharing still "simply too much" now? I´ll be glad to hear an explanation.
As for healing: I wouldn´t mind if healing and mitigation from a dc was actually relevant at least in the toughest content
but for that to happen there would have to be huuuge changes (nerfs!) to lifesteal, tanks, boons, insignia, content etc.
So that appears to be very unlikely to happen. Sadly, since of course it would be awesome if combat would gain more complexity and would offer room for more kinds of contributions like healing, mitigation and cc.
Instead the devs should evolve the game and create a controller role/buffer role for the game. Update all class and any class that is listed as Utility/Controller should have a build for buffing the group. This would expand the game a bit more and allow players a bit more flexibility in their builds.
GF, DC, CW, HR, and TR (not 100% sure with TR) are all designed around controlling but adjusting the game and making it buffing would be better suited for the gaming community. It would also remove the stand 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 DPS that go into random Q and would allow a class like a GF and DC to play something other than a tank or healer. CW, HR, and TR would be able to play a buffer instead of a DPS.
I'm all for changes as long as it provides improvement for the player base and adding another role and assigning that to a handful of classes would benefit the game more.
If the devs do this; they would have to fix the GWF tanking role so they can actually play as a tank.
Triple/quadruple power-sharing is what makes lifesteal so powerful, as those giant hits are what fuel it, and so this is also what is making healing unnecessary... Orcus can drop death roombas on the party and nobody needs to move now
dc as controlling
Either way they aren't going to do what you want because it's to much effort to justify the ROI. If they had continued with the game that way early on sure, but we are so far off the path of having cc roles in this game, i fail to see how they would re-implement it without a complete rework.
A big part of this is simplifying the calculations which improves game performance. I believe that's why most think power sharing is at risk, however as I've said before leaving power sharing in the hands of OPs while nerfing DCs won't fix the issue. The issue really is around bonding and transferring 200-300% of a stat. The reason this is a problem game wise is every time they add new armor with a 200 more power on it, then DC and OP convert it to 600 more power for the party. The correct resolution is to add a diminishing return which would encourage some investment in other stats, the lazy solution is making bonding only transfer base stats.
And yes power sharing does impact the self healing mechanisms (just like all of our buffs/debuffs). Since lifesteal works as a percentage of damage dealt, the more damage a person deals the more life they can steal and the less dependence they have on healers. This is partly why our ranking on the heal charts are not as high as they would be otherwise. Lifesteal is a passive heal and by providing buff/debuff we help it and that relieves us from healing responsibilities.
This makes the creation of content that is accessible to the have nots and yet challenging for the haves impossible. That's why power sharing gets so much vitriol.
The fixes are easy, they introduced one option recently which was the nerfing of bonding which I don't necessarily agree with. The other options would be to make bonding only transfer unbuffed stats which seems like it would be easy since they already did that to the DC but must not be since they chose to nerf bonding instead. The next option would be to introduce diminishing returns to power or a hardcap to power (hardcap would create other issues, specifically like where to dump excess stats).
@putzboy78 went into more detail, and I think until the root cause it fixed, they will continue to dance around the issue by nerfing a little bit of everything until party power is brought back into line
They already nerfed AA, and then bondings altogether, (though I despise the 30 second lock thing that is just more of the same kind of "you are not supposed to ever know what your random stats are in battle" garbage they have been feeding us since SKT) and then they will nerf Life Steal and mess around with 2 DC parties and this and that and diminishing returns and more tinkering and nerfing
All they ever needed to do was stop companion's gift from passing on buffed stats... it was just that simple
But they wouldn't/couldn't do that and so now we have to ride the nerf train until I guess we all decide for ourselves when its time to jump off
Because if an AC DC with 50k base power shares 29k power to party members that would be an appropriate number....no more problems...no further nerfs to be feared. Right?
When they raised the enchants from R10 to R12 (this is about the cross point where the bonding vs augment discussion becomes debatable) they could have done like they did with armor and weapon enchants and given them a different ability instead of increasing the amount of stats shared. Unfortianetly the mod 6 development team didn't have the vision to see what problems this would cause (similarly the challenges introduced by removing diminishing returns has caused problems). So how to fix
You institute diminishing returns, so no stat can be come super valuable
you remove buffed stats from the bonding transfer
Those are the options that would present a long term fix