About new broken TR

1246

Comments

  • chiennedeluxe
    chiennedeluxe Member Posts: 111 Arc User

    With the nerf to cb and cc deminishing returns I think the tr will hopefully be in a good place 12b. If you can't figure out how to avoid sod then that's your fault because it's really not that hard.

    So if I follow that logic, Cryptic could give the CW an aoe with 5 sec cooldown that do 500k dammage everyone on the map, it will be fine and balanced cause you just have to l2dodge that aoe?

    Seriously...
    Papa Smurf / Uncle Ben --DC
    Santa Claus --GF
    Gargamel --CW
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    > @pando83 said:
    > It's simple. Those defending current TR might grab a GWF or a SW and fight vs a TR with SoD. And then post a video about how they dodge SoD and fight back. It would be funny.
    > Another funny thing is that many TR players defending piercing damage, piercing CC, old SE one-shot SE and current SoD, were on the first line when the issue were GWFs in module 3, with broken roar. Now that they got even more broken mechanics, they are ok. Obviously. Broken mechanics must be fixed only when other classes have them. When they are on their class, it's you who must "adapt".
    >
    > Have yet to see TRs balanced in PvP. They have always been at least on top of survivability or damage. Sometimes both. The worst scenario for them was in module 3 when roar piercing stun spam could pierce their dodge roll spam (and you sure could hear their screams about how broken mechanics got to be fixed), or when they could not kill anyone, but were pretty much immortal with permastealth-ITC exc...
    >
    > There was never a scenario where they could not fight back against some class, like GWFs/SWs against old SE-one shot builds, or current SoD builds.
    >
    > I think it's time to balance TRs in PvP, and see them actually use some skill to hit the enemy and deal damage, and die more like all other classes do.

    Not all tr use sod....
    It takrs skill and timing to play tr.
    It tales tactical planding to use tr.

    Stop the tr hate pando.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • marnival
    marnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User

    > @pando83 said:

    > It's simple. Those defending current TR might grab a GWF or a SW and fight vs a TR with SoD. And then post a video about how they dodge SoD and fight back. It would be funny.

    > Another funny thing is that many TR players defending piercing damage, piercing CC, old SE one-shot SE and current SoD, were on the first line when the issue were GWFs in module 3, with broken roar. Now that they got even more broken mechanics, they are ok. Obviously. Broken mechanics must be fixed only when other classes have them. When they are on their class, it's you who must "adapt".

    >

    > Have yet to see TRs balanced in PvP. They have always been at least on top of survivability or damage. Sometimes both. The worst scenario for them was in module 3 when roar piercing stun spam could pierce their dodge roll spam (and you sure could hear their screams about how broken mechanics got to be fixed), or when they could not kill anyone, but were pretty much immortal with permastealth-ITC exc...

    >

    > There was never a scenario where they could not fight back against some class, like GWFs/SWs against old SE-one shot builds, or current SoD builds.

    >

    > I think it's time to balance TRs in PvP, and see them actually use some skill to hit the enemy and deal damage, and die more like all other classes do.



    Not all tr use sod....

    It takrs skill and timing to play tr.

    It tales tactical planding to use tr.



    Stop the tr hate pando.

    Comes from some that posted 100+ threads about nerfing Gf because they do to much damage and have to much *drum roll* SURVIVABILITY :):):):) .....

    Becuase it is takes soooo much more skill to play Tr and they do soooo little damage muahahahah - priceless ....
    '
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    > @marnival said:
    > > @pando83 said:
    >
    > > It's simple. Those defending current TR might grab a GWF or a SW and fight vs a TR with SoD. And then post a video about how they dodge SoD and fight back. It would be funny.
    >
    > > Another funny thing is that many TR players defending piercing damage, piercing CC, old SE one-shot SE and current SoD, were on the first line when the issue were GWFs in module 3, with broken roar. Now that they got even more broken mechanics, they are ok. Obviously. Broken mechanics must be fixed only when other classes have them. When they are on their class, it's you who must "adapt".
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Have yet to see TRs balanced in PvP. They have always been at least on top of survivability or damage. Sometimes both. The worst scenario for them was in module 3 when roar piercing stun spam could pierce their dodge roll spam (and you sure could hear their screams about how broken mechanics got to be fixed), or when they could not kill anyone, but were pretty much immortal with permastealth-ITC exc...
    >
    > >
    >
    > > There was never a scenario where they could not fight back against some class, like GWFs/SWs against old SE-one shot builds, or current SoD builds.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > I think it's time to balance TRs in PvP, and see them actually use some skill to hit the enemy and deal damage, and die more like all other classes do.
    >
    >
    >
    > Not all tr use sod....
    >
    > It takrs skill and timing to play tr.
    >
    > It tales tactical planding to use tr.
    >
    >
    >
    > Stop the tr hate pando.
    >
    > Comes from some that posted 100+ threads about nerfing Gf because they do to much damage and have to much *drum roll* SURVIVABILITY :) :) :) :) .....
    >
    > Becuase it is takes soooo much more skill to play Tr and they do soooo little damage muahahahah - priceless ....
    > '

    Show me where I posted 100 threads about gf damage needing a nerf and I will give you 2000 zen.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • spideymt
    spideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User


    Show me where I posted 100 threads about gf damage needing a nerf and I will give you 2000 zen.

    Who the hell cares?....
    Why defend an obvisiously broken skill?
    "You need skill to play an PVP TR".... you made my day. Thx a lot.

  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    > @pando83 said:
    > Not all tr use sod....
    > It takrs skill and timing to play tr.
    > It tales tactical planding to use tr.
    >
    > Stop the tr hate pando.
    >
    > - But the thread is about SoD builds, which are BiS builds and the main builds you meet in PvP 99,99999% of the times
    > - Spam dodge roll, stealth, smoke bomb, ITC, spam attacks on the enemy, wait for SoD to proc. Old SE build: go stealth, drop piercing monster SE on your enemy. I don't see much skill. I tried both on my TR. If you think that's gameplay that requires skill, and the feedback sent to the devs is like this, i can see why they ruined the combat system the way they did.
    > - the tactical planning is to target the classes that cannot defend at all (GWF and SW), and then proceed to get a free kill, while people discuss on forums about how to use stealth rings to survive a broken mechanic, instead of fixing it.
    > - No TR hate. Just asking for clearly broken mechanics to get fixed, while others ask for them to stay. Did TRs, and many others, scream, to have old Roar in module 3, fixed? Yes. And they were right in asking for the fix. It was a broekn mechanic, and it ruined PvP.
    > Why now are they defending stuff like old SE builds or SoD? I'd say, stop defending broken stuff when it's on your class, and ask for fixes and true reworks.

    The difference with roar was that it was hitting people that were supposed to be immune. That's broken.... shadow of demise Is working as intended. Thus not broken. Out of balance maybe but not broken.

    Ask morenthar, it takes skill to play a tr, but you don't "need" skill to play any class. Just need skill and knowledge to play them well.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Also this thread says new broken tr... not new broken sod... you guys are complaining about a tr in all ways... it's like complaining gf has shield or DC heals. Just stop.

    Wait for the rework. (Where they grant 50% of all tr attacks as piercing damage.)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • pando83
    pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User


    The difference with roar was that it was hitting people that were supposed to be immune. That's broken.... shadow of demise Is working as intended. Thus not broken. Out of balance maybe but not broken.



    Ask morenthar, it takes skill to play a tr, but you don't "need" skill to play any class. Just need skill and knowledge to play them well.

    The issue with roar was not just that it was not WAI. TRs complained a lot about 1) how it was unfair that something could pierce their dodge and 2)how it could be spammed. In fact, it was nerfed in both ways. It was not just fixed, but nerfed. Now they are defending mechanics that pierce everything (CB and piercing damage) and can be spammed.

    You can pick a TR and be effective in PvP with little skill. Old SE builds did not require skill. Just the build. Same with current SoD. Old roar build did not require skill. Just the build and roar spam.
    You need skill to play well some classes in PvP. Not all. Depending on the module. What i pointed out before is that if you track a record about how classes performed in PvP through the modules, you can find modules where GFs or GWFs or CWs or DCs or SWs (lol) or HRs were basically cannon fodder. TRs always got something. Survivability to contest nodes more than any other class, or damage to wipe out other classes easily, or both.

    On the other side, in PvE it's the opposite.

    I just want the devs to find a balance AND stop filling PvP with mechanics that ignore dodges. NW is based (used to be based) on an ACTION COMBAT SYSTEM. It should mean that aiming, timing and dodging are the absolute rules. If you start introducing mechanics that allow players to pierce dodges/ shift mechanics, plus auto-aiming powers, you destroy the combat system.

    Example: shift-dodge mechanic--->sprint vs piercing monster damage. I time my sprint vs TR attacks. TR fails to time his attacks to avoid hitting me during my shift mechanic. I should get rewarded, he should get penalized. Logic.
    Instead, he gets rewarded. I get penalized because, well, i wasted my stamina.
    I time my sprint vs courage breaker. He hits me with CB during my sprint. I should get rewarded and his attack's effect on me should be reduced. Does not happen. He gets rewarded because well, i wasted my stamina again.

  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Courage breaker is designed to bypass defenses.. there is no way around it.. that is how the mechanic works.. it's not broken
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • pando83
    pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    I can agree on pretty much everything except party stealth. Don't really like stealth on other classes. It's enough on TRs and HRs. But would be a nice party defense buff in PvE.
  • nerfcc#8605
    nerfcc#8605 Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    You want all that ^^ with sod remaining the same? I think sod should get a 65% damage nerf. And give trs an encounter buff or something like the things stated above. Also itc should be nerfed. The nerf to itc and buffing other encounters could hopefully make multiple encounters and play styles viable. Unfortunately something that optimistic probably won't happen so I'll settle for a quick 65% dmg nerf to sod.
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    pando83 said:


    The difference with roar was that it was hitting people that were supposed to be immune. That's broken.... shadow of demise Is working as intended. Thus not broken. Out of balance maybe but not broken.



    Ask morenthar, it takes skill to play a tr, but you don't "need" skill to play any class. Just need skill and knowledge to play them well.

    On the other side, in PvE it's the opposite.


    I can assure you it is not that way any more in PVE. TR is awesome dps, especially focus damage on bosses. Anyone that wants to tell me it´s not runs wrong builds.

    You know what I want for tr.....

    X2 backstabbing damage

    Stealth grants 100% (edit armor peircing) piercing and x3 backstabbing bonus

    I want an encounter that does party stealth

    I want an encounter that creates a seal circle on the floor that cannot be crossed

    I want faster attack animations

    I want a party speed buff

    I want a party reveal stealth buff

    I want tr to take 1.5 damage when attacked head to head from front.

    I want all buff potions disabled from pvp.

    I want lower base damage but triple critical damage.

    I really don´t know if I got that right. But all in all this sounds pretty laughable to me.

    1.Stealth should give you 100% piercing ability towards your damage? - every hard hitting encounter is 100% piercing from stealth as a crit, mhhh, what about no?
    2.3xbonus if you attack a target from behind? look above, a free skilless spam of anything from stealth with piercing damagex3, nonsense
    3.party stealth? to play hide and seek in PVP?
    4. a circle you can stand inside and noone can enter? not really, sure about that?
    5. lower damage but triple crit damage, lolol.
    Scenario: Hide, aproach from behind (100% crit from stealth), spam any encounter, wich will pierce your target and do 100% guarantied triple critical damage x3, without any skill to use...
    I assume all this is ment to be a joke, right? triple damage from stealth with 3x crit multiplier as a 100% pierce and crit, muahahahaha

    If that should happen, I want.
    1. if TR is in stealth to deal irresistible piercing damage x3 from behind, he loses ITC ability, deflect drops to zero and you can not dodge just run for 10 seconds:)
    2. after killing his target with thes skilless abilities, he reveals and his defences (under point 1) stay until he dies. If noone kills him he just drops dead to the ground after 30 seconds , funny :) I am in for those tactical Kamikaze Builds
    3. no comment
    4. no comment, I want to fly in PVP...
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • sabre10
    sabre10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User



    I can assure you it is not that way any more in PVE. TR is awesome dps, especially focus damage on bosses. Anyone that wants to tell me it´s not runs wrong builds.

    .

    Problem here is that while it is possible to do hefty damage in PvE as a TR, it's by and large the exception rather than the rule and dependant on a number of factors. The prime one being the broken mechanic that is Shadow of Demise

    There's no bones about it, SoD in it's current iteration shouldn't remain. However, as it stands the capstone is obscuring how so much else about the class is under performing. Nothing short of a proper (objective) review will resolve the above problems, and we can see how committed the dev team is to that! Their commitment is conspicuous by it's absence.
    aDXr4Ur.png
    Civil Anarchy Officer
    Fabled Alliance
  • miyanaa
    miyanaa Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    morenthar said:


    PvP sucked before TRs got the current SoD.

    Thought PvP still sucks :D

    Really tho, that thing IS very broken.
    Like you said, theres always gonna be something that is broken, bugged, overpowered, unbalanced etc etc, but people ARE allowed to complain about these things as much as they want, since it takes all of the fun away from playing PvP :)

    Except for TRs obviously, since atm the puggest TR possible can kill a BiS player thanks to SoD, so Im guessing its lots of fun to finally get all these amazing kills in the matches, where before it took more or less skill to do that ^^

    But hey, not complaining.

    Lol.
    PvP DC ~ Meep Neox
    YouTube
  • callidus1986
    callidus1986 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    Developers left PvP die this is HAMSTER ... mobile deflective and most important all HAMSTER executioners ... balance your game make class all equal ... no PvP is this game ... Nerfed to DC and rest healing ability ... imposible to heal gg.. developers makes more hunts ... and campains ... people come play this dead game ....
  • lordnemesis1981
    lordnemesis1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 204 Arc User
    I think that actually dev have miscalculated the fact that SOD was added in mod 12.

    But in mod 12 TR wasn't able to do a lot of dps in pvp without SOD ( after the SE nerf ).

    But now, in 12b, everyone do a lot of dmg, even the TR, if in mod 12 a bloodbath was a "no serius damage" daily, now, with a high recovery build ( 20k ) the big burst of dps for everyone, the AP gain of TR, bloodbath now will cut your HP for over 50% in some case.
    Yesterday Fought vs a TR that has "the broken SOD build".
    Stealth, BB, SOD....campfire.
    If Miss the first Sod for some kind of miracle and still alive, stealth, waiting for another daily ( around 4/5 seconds ) new BB, campfire.

    If in mod 12 i was able to sustain a TR for 4 of his SOD, now, in 12b, is a ONE PUSH BUTTON BUILD.
    BB, SOD, some atwill = campfire.

    PermaCampfire.

    I can understand a SOD ( yes, unavoiable piercing damage for over 100k ) in mod 12 when the tr lack of dps from encounter and atwill, but in mod 12b is not the case anymore, they do a lot of damage even without sod, so i really don't understand what dev are waiting for rework another time that feat, is not necessary anymore in tis module.

    TR have good damage from encounter and at will now, SOD s not necessary anymore.

  • andre#8369
    andre#8369 Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    > @schietindebux said:
    > The difference with roar was that it was hitting people that were supposed to be immune. That's broken.... shadow of demise Is working as intended. Thus not broken. Out of balance maybe but not broken.
    >
    >
    >
    > Ask morenthar, it takes skill to play a tr, but you don't "need" skill to play any class. Just need skill and knowledge to play them well.
    >
    > On the other side, in PvE it's the opposite.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I can assure you it is not that way any more in PVE. TR is awesome dps, especially focus damage on bosses. Anyone that wants to tell me it´s not runs wrong builds. You know what I want for tr.....
    >
    > X2 backstabbing damage
    >
    > Stealth grants 100% (edit armor peircing) piercing and x3 backstabbing bonus
    >
    > I want an encounter that does party stealth
    >
    > I want an encounter that creates a seal circle on the floor that cannot be crossed
    >
    > I want faster attack animations
    >
    > I want a party speed buff
    >
    > I want a party reveal stealth buff
    >
    > I want tr to take 1.5 damage when attacked head to head from front.
    >
    > I want all buff potions disabled from pvp.
    >
    > I want lower base damage but triple critical damage.
    >
    > I really don´t know if I got that right. But all in all this sounds pretty laughable to me.
    >
    > 1.Stealth should give you 100% piercing ability towards your damage? - every hard hitting encounter is 100% piercing from stealth as a crit, mhhh, what about no?
    > 2.3xbonus if you attack a target from behind? look above, a free skilless spam of anything from stealth with piercing damagex3, nonsense
    > 3.party stealth? to play hide and seek in PVP?
    > 4. a circle you can stand inside and noone can enter? not really, sure about that?
    > 5. lower damage but triple crit damage, lolol.
    > Scenario: Hide, aproach from behind (100% crit from stealth), spam any encounter, wich will pierce your target and do 100% guarantied triple critical damage x3, without any skill to use...
    > I assume all this is ment to be a joke, right? triple damage from stealth with 3x crit multiplier as a 100% pierce and crit, muahahahaha
    >
    > If that should happen, I want.
    > 1. if TR is in stealth to deal irresistible piercing damage x3 from behind, he loses ITC ability, deflect drops to zero and you can not dodge just run for 10 seconds:)
    > 2. after killing his target with thes skilless abilities, he reveals and his defences (under point 1) stay until he dies. If noone kills him he just drops dead to the ground after 30 seconds , funny :) I am in for those tactical Kamikaze Builds
    > 3. no comment
    > 4. no comment, I want to fly in PVP...

    I assumed he was trolling in every post when I read party stealth.
  • sabre10
    sabre10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited November 2017



    TR have good damage from encounter and at will now, SOD s not necessary anymore.

    SoD shouldn't be necessary at all and needs to be dealt with, but suggesting that TR encounters and At-wills deal good dmg (comparatively) is misleading.
    aDXr4Ur.png
    Civil Anarchy Officer
    Fabled Alliance
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited November 2017


    I assumed he was trolling in every post when I read party stealth.

    Hm, maybe, but not too sure about it... it´s demonmonger
    sabre10 said:



    TR have good damage from encounter and at will now, SOD s not necessary anymore.

    SoD shouldn't be necessary at all and needs to be dealt with, but suggesting that TR encounters and At-wills deal good dmg (comparatively) is misleading.
    I would aggree about that, there is missing some dps.
    morenthar said:

    @miyanaa



    My larger point is that I'm surprised this many people care. If winning with broken powers was enjoyable to me, I'd come back to the game.



    Although I do think they are attempting to realize a vision going forward, they keep introducing broken HAMSTER that blows up any progress that was made.



    If the PvE content was really good, I would come back just for that. It's not. So I needed PvP to keep me interested in the game.



    Every day this game gives me more reason to stay away. Until I get some feedback from people I trust, stated that things are fun again, I'm out.

    There are not much reasons to come back, but I also did not found much reason to farm BD, maybe my trip was too short.
  • rustlord
    rustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    glad to see pvp is still broken af... glad cus i aint u no more lol BDO is no less grindy or balanced but at least it's pretty. try woodworking.. helps keep the urge to pvp at bay

    and @morenthar, howdy you!
  • kiraskytower
    kiraskytower Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    sabre10 said:



    I can assure you it is not that way any more in PVE. TR is awesome dps, especially focus damage on bosses. Anyone that wants to tell me it´s not runs wrong builds.

    .

    Problem here is that while it is possible to do hefty damage in PvE as a TR, it's by and large the exception rather than the rule and dependant on a number of factors. The prime one being the broken mechanic that is Shadow of Demise

    There's no bones about it, SoD in it's current iteration shouldn't remain. However, as it stands the capstone is obscuring how so much else about the class is under performing. Nothing short of a proper (objective) review will resolve the above problems, and we can see how committed the dev team is to that! Their commitment is conspicuous by it's absence.
    Sadly, any major class rework has likely been postponed until Cryptic gets their new Magic the Gathering game out the door. Last I had heard the Devs who had been working on the TR rework had been pulled and reassigned. Kind of a shame as both TR and SW are badly in need of a major class overhaul, and instead they are both likely to get only hastily applied band-aid fixes which cause as many issues as they fix.
    PandorasMisfits_Logo_175_zpskpytcqxc.png
    Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
    Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
  • sabre10
    sabre10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User

    sabre10 said:



    I can assure you it is not that way any more in PVE. TR is awesome dps, especially focus damage on bosses. Anyone that wants to tell me it´s not runs wrong builds.

    .

    Problem here is that while it is possible to do hefty damage in PvE as a TR, it's by and large the exception rather than the rule and dependant on a number of factors. The prime one being the broken mechanic that is Shadow of Demise

    There's no bones about it, SoD in it's current iteration shouldn't remain. However, as it stands the capstone is obscuring how so much else about the class is under performing. Nothing short of a proper (objective) review will resolve the above problems, and we can see how committed the dev team is to that! Their commitment is conspicuous by it's absence.
    Sadly, any major class rework has likely been postponed until Cryptic gets their new Magic the Gathering game out the door. Last I had heard the Devs who had been working on the TR rework had been pulled and reassigned. Kind of a shame as both TR and SW are badly in need of a major class overhaul, and instead they are both likely to get only hastily applied band-aid fixes which cause as many issues as they fix.
    That figures, and the lack of communication does nothing to suggest otherwise
    aDXr4Ur.png
    Civil Anarchy Officer
    Fabled Alliance