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archangelzorak01
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 324 Arc User
It is an immense time-sink farming for rare spawns with rarely dropped items, just to summon 1 hunt critter; and at each tier above 1-star the amount of time compounds.
In THC we've taken what I consider an excellent approach. We form up a group of 5, send 2 people to farm T-Rex's and the remaining 3 off to farm Batiris/Crabs/Scorps etc. After a couple of hours we have enough materials to create a few lures.
The issue we're running into is the fact that Hunt's are RNG on top of RNG (later tiers are even more layers of RNG). First you need to find the rare mobs and then hope they drop the item to create a lure. Then when you summon the hunt critter you hope that they'll drop 'anything' at all. Either a decent ring or an item for a higher tier hunt. In the multiple hours spent hunting thus far, Clawgraze/Karkenos mostly, I have yet to get even a single drop. This is an ongoing issue in this game as I hardly run dungeons anymore because I know that 75% of the time I will walk out of a dungeon with less than I went in with, Hunts compound this due to the increased farm time involved.
The amount of time involved in these hunts does not even come close to giving acceptable rewards for the time spent farming them. In the amount of time we spent farming/hunting we could have run a couple dozen CN's or dozen or so FBI's/MSP's.
Note: I really like the idea of the Hunts, I consider it a great way for my guildies to spend their time farming things together and working together to get rings and other items of note. At this time however it pains me to advocate participation in hunting as I know that 90% of those participants will walk away with nothing after having farmed items for hours.
I understand the rarity of the enemies spawning, and I feel that is ok and balanced. However I feel the drop rate on the items from these rare spawns should be considerably higher, if not guaranteed. I also fail to see the rationale with the unique status of the items dropped by these rare spawns, these are consumable items and no consumable should ever be 'unique' unless its a one-time thing.
In THC we've taken what I consider an excellent approach. We form up a group of 5, send 2 people to farm T-Rex's and the remaining 3 off to farm Batiris/Crabs/Scorps etc. After a couple of hours we have enough materials to create a few lures.
The issue we're running into is the fact that Hunt's are RNG on top of RNG (later tiers are even more layers of RNG). First you need to find the rare mobs and then hope they drop the item to create a lure. Then when you summon the hunt critter you hope that they'll drop 'anything' at all. Either a decent ring or an item for a higher tier hunt. In the multiple hours spent hunting thus far, Clawgraze/Karkenos mostly, I have yet to get even a single drop. This is an ongoing issue in this game as I hardly run dungeons anymore because I know that 75% of the time I will walk out of a dungeon with less than I went in with, Hunts compound this due to the increased farm time involved.
The amount of time involved in these hunts does not even come close to giving acceptable rewards for the time spent farming them. In the amount of time we spent farming/hunting we could have run a couple dozen CN's or dozen or so FBI's/MSP's.
Note: I really like the idea of the Hunts, I consider it a great way for my guildies to spend their time farming things together and working together to get rings and other items of note. At this time however it pains me to advocate participation in hunting as I know that 90% of those participants will walk away with nothing after having farmed items for hours.
I understand the rarity of the enemies spawning, and I feel that is ok and balanced. However I feel the drop rate on the items from these rare spawns should be considerably higher, if not guaranteed. I also fail to see the rationale with the unique status of the items dropped by these rare spawns, these are consumable items and no consumable should ever be 'unique' unless its a one-time thing.
Neverwinter Module 6: The only MMO expansion in the history of MMO's to remove more content than it added.
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Hunts failed miserably at being reasonable, in pretty much every way.
The changes I would like to see, is to keep the rarity of the monster spawns, but make the drop chance at least 50%, and remove the rarity of both the dropped items, and the lures.
I really want to like this hunting thing, but all it does now is demotivate me, and really regret taking that route towards extra totems.
Seriously - why? How does it improve the game or make for a more entertaining game experience? That "feature" should be removed.
Also, I would recommend revising the drops a bit. As it is, well...are hunts really worth the effort?
At this point, I've only done KOS a couple times and stumbled on a hunt creature at some point without knowing it...so I can't really speak to the rarity of stuff other than what I've heard in zone chat.
RNG on top of RNG though is a bad idea. It's like winning a CHANCE to play the lottery....
I take a look at the preview shard before a new mod drops and I see very detailed and consise posts about the various bugs and broken mechanics in the mod, but then I look at the forums after the mod drops and nothing has been changed!
The good. It's great quest design, you can essentially get your dailies and totem cap done in a day or so, which leaves you the rest of the week to hunt. Or do whatever you like.
It's also nice to have the hidden monster trope going on, always loved this idea since ff7 and the weapon monsters.
The not so good. Levels of rng.
1. Find a rare mob
2. Hope they drop their lure mat.
3. Farm KoS, fishing, or wild t-rexes, hope for a tooth.
(Make lure and bait your monster).
4. Kill monster hope for next lvl loot mat.
That's 8 layers of "if" (you need two lure mats) already, before you get to 2-star hunt.
Plz note. Although you can't have more than 1 unique item in your inventory, you can stack them in your guild bank. My advice, make a pool of mats for your hunters.
RNG for loot from KOS
RNG for lure item from Tier 2 Hunt (x3)
RNG for lure item from Tier 1 Hunt (x2)
RNG for fang from T-Rex
RNG for T-Rex to spawn
RNG for lure item from random spawn
RNG for mob to spawn as rare
thats what? 10? 10 layers of RNG? Some of which appear to obscenely low drop rates.
Think of the amount of time it will take to farm that much stuff. Its absurd. Would appreciate a dev comment concerning this.
*edited for spelling
Ofc. I can't make the 2star lure without doing the next campaign task.
Looking at the collections pages, I find that for my build the 2 armor pieces from hunting the king of spines with a 3star lure are the best. This leaves me with a dilemma. Next week, and the third week, do I unlock the two further tiers of hunting..? Or progress through the campaign towards the new dungeon like the majority of players..?
If I do the dungeon tasks, I'm gonna be bored, because already, (unless I farm a few more materials for the 2 star hunts), without the ability to make 2star lures, hunting is kinda dead in the water, and will be for another week, or longer, if I go for opening the dungeon. Meanwhile, without hunting, the new mod is a bit light on stuff to do.
However, given my luck with demo pve the last year or so, and knowing the king of spines rng will most probably be absolutely horrendous... will hunting prove doubly frustrating in that I won't be able to do the dungeon with the rest of the guild, and that the king of spines is going to stiff me every. single. time.
Lol. Argh.
I started unlocking the middle part to free the dungeon since i want to replace Relic head and arm piece with the Primal gear which comes from the new seals.
Rings from Hunts are something i might get involved with at some point.
I see ppl were trade 1 trex fang for 6-7 gmops, this is ridiculous, these items do not even 5k...i talk about only for rare hunts items.
Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
I'm not surprised fangs are selling well on the trade-market, farming them is extremely frustrating.
Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
Seriously - it's a silly workaround for something that should never have been put in. Please, get rid of the "unique trophy" nonsense, and allow the items to stack. Having to work around a pointless limitation like this does not benefit anyone in any way.
I pretty much consider the hunts a good idea, suffering from a design failure that makes them not really worth doing. They are kind-of like the Stronghold Marauders in that respect - feels like those things were designed by someone who doesn't play the game but just looks at a spreadsheet.
I found that the task of getting 25 hunts in a week to actually be one of the most difficult "dailies" of all time. I somewhat enjoyed the difficulty, but it was sometimes difficult for some very silly reasons.
1. Trex fang is required for all hunts, so you need like 125 T-Rex kills. This alone is fairly excessive. Even a 100% drop rate (I think it's somewhere around 15-30%) might not solve how hard this one is.
2. Trophies and lures are unique. I am not really sure what the design decision was behind this one, since the only thing it does is make it artificially harder to get more than one hunt. There is a workaround to this involving mailing trophies to yourself, which made this "okay" but still very annoying.
3. An alternate solution to the 125 T-Rex kills would be to make 1 star hunts give more totems (1 star = 2 totems, 2 star = 5 totems, 3 star = 10 totems or something), which would cut down on the very large number of T-Rex kills, but wouldn't solve the ratio where T-Rex trophies are almost identically easy to get, except you need 3x as many
4. As far as rewards go, I am not currently upset about what was dropping, but rather how much was dropping. Currently only one items drops for everyone involved when you summon a hunt. This means that if you have one piece of the lure, and a friend has the other, you still cannot summon the hunt unless someone agrees to give the other ALL of the loot. This doesn't kindle friendships, teamwork, or kindness. Having the hunt randomly drop the item to different people wouldn't solve this either, it would just make lure owners hunt solo.
5. I feel like some days I could kill 30 rare creatures in a row and get no drops, which makes people begin to doubt they are killing the correct creature. It wouldn't hurt to add a system that set a maximum number of times a rare needs to be killed before someone is granted a drop. Other games have such systems to prevent people from getting unfairly treated by the game RNG, since in theory it is still POSSIBLE to kill 2,000 Batiri Braves and never get a drop. Not likely, but possible (unless you already have such a system in place, which I didn't notice). Another solution could be to add a flashy notification each time you killed a rare creature to confirm you were killing the right enemy, but that removes some of the mystery and doesn't solve the RNG being mad at you problem.
6. Overall I absolutely love the system of searching for rare creatures. I am sad now that I have found them all. I cannot wait to search out 25 more hunts this week. If only I didn't need 25 T-Rex fangs
PS: Please fix Split-Ti
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
By the way, I agree that the unique item work around is a joke. There is absolutely no reason to not allow more than 1 to be in your inventory, when you can mail them to yourself and keep one in the shared bank. If they know this work around exists, and are fine with it, they should just remove the frustration all together.
I am perfectly fine with not allowing them to be sold in the AH and agree with the Developer's statement on that matter.
Ed: Mentioned by others as I caught up on the thread.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
The two neon green ones in the middle are Venomtails. Now I actually think they are one of the more common trophies to drop (possibly just the same drop rate), but rather they spawn less frequently (with only 4 spawn locations). I have even had Venom drop from both Venomtails in the same group twice now (the key is to not pick one up till both are dead). I have currently farmed:
8x Ogre Femurs (before I started discarding them and stopped counting)
7x Batiri Brave Necklace
8x Venomtail Venom
3x Eotyrannus Talon
5x Smilodon Tooth
0x Bigclaw Pincer (haven't even tried)
10x T-Rex Fang
My route farms 4 scorpion spawns, 4 tiger spawns, and 2 deinonychus spawns; and I was farming the batiri camp exclusively for the first 2 days.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
We haven't had time to even try hunting though, so we didn't bother to unlock it.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I mean... I get a few hours a night to play... and I tried doing these over the weekend, but... me and a friend in my alliance tried hunting Batiri braves, and we found a number of the mobs... but they didn't drop anything for either of us.
I don't know, it feels like your spinning a wheel to get the mobs that drops these items... and then rolling the dice to see if they actually drop something.
I have only gotten a ogre femur... but haven't even got any more of those.
EDIT - also note that Batiri Necklace seems to be one of the rarer drop rates, since the Brave itself has a high spawn rate (often 1-5 braves per entire Batiri camp respawn). The easiest to farm seems to be the useless Ogre Femur due to Split-Ti being unspawnable. Sadly all hunts require the T-Rex Fang, so you still need to go hunt the T-Rex to get a hunt going. The other trophies are fairly easy.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
Ok, let's say your end goal is the rex armor and head from the final king of spines hunt.
The entrance fee for that is three second tier hunt mats. Which requires 6 first tier mats. Which requires 12 rare drops.
First tier hunts you can reasonably solo, if you have good gear. Second tier hunts, I don't know, but guessing hmm, difficult to the point of foolishness, given the grind to get the 2nd tier lure. So there's also the necessity of having a party of trustworthy friends/guildies for the higher level hunts.
I don't really have to point out the levels of rng involved, both intrinsic to the system, and player imposed via party dynamic.
The zone trade market for trex fangs has taken off already in the past couple of days, and slowly, or maybe not so slowly, the market for 2nd tier mats and lures will join it, and eventually the last tier market for spines mats and lures will follow. Maybe. Each layer involves near-exponential grind. Most likely, since people are running hunts for the extra 25 totems per week, the trade market will level out at 2nd tier lure mats. Depending on the prices, some will essentially start a business farming and selling second tier lures and third tier mats.
Realistically, hunts have just created a new industry.
The icing on the whole cake though, is that all these trade goods are just lottery tickets. Without a guarrentee. Essentially, barring a wink from Rngesus, worthless.
I remember the old dungeon delves, run 3 times in an hour with a decent group, for a couple of days or weeks, and you got your bis, top tier gear. Then you went back and helped you guildies or channel mates get theirs. Guarrenteed. Press bar x number of times, get reward.
These days. Lol. Not a chance. These days it's press bar x number of times for a chance to press another bar y number of times for a chance to press yet another bar z number of times for the (possibilty of a) reward. Of course, we don't know the actual values of x, y and z, nor if values of x, y, and z can actually be known at all. On top of that, the drastically reduced chances of getting what you want within a reasonable time frame means you are in direct compatition with the people in your party, because whereas in the older model you knew that if your party-mate won the drop, sooner or later you'd get yours too, plus you also knew they would help you, because the effort and time involved was not prohibitive.... and this is no longer the case if we are honest. Psychological poison.
So, who, in the near future is actually going to get the hunt armor, before later mods make it obscelete..? There will ofc. be "that one guy" the guy who just flat out was favoured by the gods, and rolled 50 sixes in a row. The free-to-play posterchild whom the developers can hold up and say "look, it is possible, just look at this guy here !!!" And there will be small groups of people who basically had enough capital to buy a large pool of materials for the king of spines lures, and farmed the hell out of it.
Mr. Solo, unless, Mr. Solo is gob-smackingly rich, can forget it.
Much as I love this game, there are aspects of it that are very easy to despise. Plus of course the irony of participating in an activity supposed to take us away from the frustrations of our real lives, and then simply re-creating all the mundane insanities we experience day to day anyway.
I am really not sure how hard they are to solo, but a party kills 2-star hunts in about 3-10 seconds (and I am talking about a party that does FBI in 25-30 minutes). Also, you do not need a trustworthy party. The lure owner should demand party lead, and switch the loot mode to Determined By Party Leader. This prevents anyone from stealing your loot.
You aren't wrong on this one, but the lures aren't all that rare, and getting hunts aren't all that hard. Although getting 25 in a week may be difficult for people with less time due to how the T-Rex Fang drops work (I will most definitely be complaining about this mechanic later)
Just curious... how is this even bad?
Yes, and yes. These are lottery tickets. I personally won't be buying them, at least not en masse from strangers, because I have too much fun hunting them down myself with my friends and guildies. They can basically be thought of as dungeon keys for a minidungeon, which are also lottery tickets. I am mainly doing them for the totems at this time though, so any loot so far is just an added bonus. I got 10 lures that I got to take the loot from last week, and got 2, plus 4 rings, and 3, 2-star trophies, so based on an extremely limited sample size the drop rates don't seem horrible.
I do plan on going after some of the 3-star gear, since it is easily BiS for DCs, but hey I haven't gotten that far yet. I will form my opinion on it when I get there.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John