On saturday I decided to spin up preview on my 11k item level main and tried to do my dailies there. It took me twice as long, and my typical damage output that I would expect was about 1/3 of live. I tried this guildless on both to make sure it wasn't my crappy low level guild boons causing this. The only difference is that on live I have vip 12, and on preview I have no vip. What is causing this issue and how do I fix this? If on tuesday when I log in, if it takes me twice as long to do such trivial tasks as sharandar/dread ring dailies, and I'm unable to solo lairs anymore, I will quit this game. I understand that the whales like to post here on how things are and that this is a new module release, but you guys are rolling out a system wide overhaul of ARP and debuffs that seems to be having a very adverse effect on the low level game and content that should not need to be changed at this point.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
On saturday I decided to spin up preview on my 11k item level main and tried to do my dailies there. It took me twice as long, and my typical damage output that I would expect was about 1/3 of live. I tried this guildless on both to make sure it wasn't my crappy low level guild boons causing this. The only difference is that on live I have vip 12, and on preview I have no vip. What is causing this issue and how do I fix this? If on tuesday when I log in, if it takes me twice as long to do such trivial tasks as sharandar/dread ring dailies, and I'm unable to solo lairs anymore, I will quit this game. I understand that the whales like to post here on how things are and that this is a new module release, but you guys are rolling out a system wide overhaul of ARP and debuffs that seems to be having a very adverse effect on the low level game and content that should not need to be changed at this point.
In what class happening this. I have a dc playing it without bondings and rank 8 enchants ( well is dps spec but ) with 15% resist ignore with 35% critical and 18k power i cleared the monsters in reservoir and it was like i playing on live with guild boons. I didnt notice any difference.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Damage resistance of mobs in existing zones isn't being changed. There is no need to boost your armor penetration beyond what you already use aside from in the new content.
Solo, most players of most classes weren't likely getting anywhere near the debuff cap. This isn't going to change substantively either.
I honestly don't see any reason why any of this would make content a struggle that you found easy before. I'd like to identify a cause, but I don't think it's due to the debuff changes.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited July 2017
"Overpenetration" is not a thing. The monster resistances people have provided tested figures for were measured by finding the point where adding more armor penetration stopped increasing their damage taken, right?
I mean, unless I've drastically misunderstood something.
At this point my best guess is I think that @kitkathd is conflating the ArPen changes in PVP with the debuff changes in PVE.
If you read the PVP changes and think that they apply in PVE too, then you'd be concerned.
I have literally tested on preview, at various ilvls (taking off gear, using rank 8 enchants), and all 6 of my toons can complete the new zones, let alone the old ones. So not everyone's damage got cut by 2/3's
I really think that they had a bad experience on preview and decided to attribute it to the discussion that they didn't fully understand. Hopefully by the time the changes go live they'll realize that it's not as bad as they thought.
Like becky, I'm happy to help speculate on causes, because again I think that the debuff changes being responsible is incredibly unlikely (even if you were running a full uncapped setup, the decrease in your damage when soloing would be closer to 10-20%... and you'd need to be close to BiS for it to hurt that much)
Finally, I'm actually in favor of the game introducing more difficult zones. Not all new content should be available to fresh lvl 70s. Increasing difficulty allows for progression, which is a good thing.
So for any folks reading this please note that many of us appreciate the increase difficulty, the scaling down of uncapped debuffs to bring balance to the pet world, and other changes to make the game more mechanics-focused rather than a straight dps check.
"Overpenetration" is not a thing. The monster resistances people have provided tested figures for were measured by finding the point where adding more armor penetration stopped increasing their damage taken, right?
I mean, unless I've drastically misunderstood something.
"Overpenetration" was cited in one of the posts that got sent to the depths. I think it's a pretty good hint that the author is conflating the PVP changes with the PVE changes.
Because "overpenetration" was a thing in PVP, but not in PVE. However, rgustcheradev often talked about both sets of changes in one breath / post. Someone who doesn't have great command of the language and good context with the system mechanics could get confused.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
"Overpenetration" is not a thing. The monster resistances people have provided tested figures for were measured by finding the point where adding more armor penetration stopped increasing their damage taken, right?
I mean, unless I've drastically misunderstood something.
Actually to know the enemy resistance, eDR, it's enough to know our intended damage (we have it in the log), the resulting damage (have it too) and our Resistance ignored.
Because our result = intended * ( 1 - eDR + RI ) we can
eDR = (result / intended) + RI
Without reaching the cap of RI = eDR. The important thing is to not use any debuffs, accounting for those make it way harder. Off course it can also be validated or calculated by reaching the RI = eDR by rising slowly and looking when the damage is not reduced.
The over-penetration will allegedly happen if RI > eDR and then we get a buff. But in practice it's capped, the whole ( 1 - eDR + RI ) thing can't go over 1 so no over penetration
It's easy to test by going to any dummy and hitting it, the dummy has 0 eDR, we normally have 60% RI, but we wont get any damage increase, not to mention 60% increase. So no over penetration for PvE.
PvP interaction is different, and it's like PvP itself, better left unventured.
Post edited by micky1p00 on
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Actually to know the enemy resistance, eDR, it's enough to know our intended damage (we have it in the log), the resulting damage (have it too) and our Resistance ignored.
OP- Looks like they screwed up on the pally’s armor stats. A tank pally is supposed to be building a Power/Recovery build for the optimal support tanking, but as you can tell the game designers don’t play this game. Even though the stats are wrong on most of the gear it is still worth getting for the boost of Power stat you get out of them. You can make up the Recovery else-where.
GF- All: Primal Raid- All of the Primal Raid gear are worth getting for the GF
TR- Arms: Primal Raid Amibari
The rest, for those classes, are obsolete to the current (Mod-11.5) gear in stat sets, and the Mod-12 armor bonuses don’t make up for it either. None of the new chest pieces even match the Executioner’s Black Attire for dps classes. Yup, that’s right, all the work they put into the new designs has gone to waste simply because they couldn’t put in the right stats. The rings are missing a Power and Crit set so we’re stuck with Dod rings or Rising Power/Precision rings. Unless you’re building Power and Recovery.
Those are all the classes I play and everything stated above is just my opinion, but seriously what's with the crappy stats!?!
OP- Looks like they screwed up on the pally’s armor stats. A tank pally is supposed to be building a Power/Recovery build for the optimal support tanking, but as you can tell the game designers don’t play this game. Even though the stats are wrong on most of the gear it is still worth getting for the boost of Power stat you get out of them. You can make up the Recovery else-where.
GF- All: Primal Raid- All of the Primal Raid gear are worth getting for the GF
TR- Arms: Primal Raid Amibari
The rest, for those classes, are obsolete to the current (Mod-11.5) gear in stat sets, and the Mod-12 armor bonuses don’t make up for it either. None of the new chest pieces even match the Executioner’s Black Attire for dps classes. Yup, that’s right, all the work they put into the new designs has gone to waste simply because they couldn’t put in the right stats. The rings are missing a Power and Crit set so we’re stuck with Dod rings or Rising Power/Precision rings. Unless you’re building Power and Recovery.
Those are all the classes I play and everything stated above is just my opinion, but seriously what's with the crappy stats!?!
Unless they changed it again, I think the DC Restoration Boots are Power primary, Recovery secondary, and should be good for a power sharing DC. Also, they did a fairly decent job for DO DC on almost every piece... depending on which type of DO you are building.
"Overpenetration" is not a thing. The monster resistances people have provided tested figures for were measured by finding the point where adding more armor penetration stopped increasing their damage taken, right?
I mean, unless I've drastically misunderstood something.
Actually to know the enemy resistance, eDR, it's enough to know our intended damage (we have it in the log), the resulting damage (have it too) and our Resistance ignored.
Because our result = intended * ( 1 - eDR + RI ) we can
eDR = (result / intended) + RI
Without reaching the cap of RI = eDR. The important thing is to not use any debuffs, accounting for those make it way harder. Off course it can also be validated or calculated by reaching the RI = eDR by rising slowly and looking when the damage is not reduced.
The over-penetration will allegedly happen if RI > eDR and then we get a buff. But in practice it's capped, the whole ( 1 - eDR + RI ) thing can't go over 1 so no over penetration
It's easy to test by going to any dummy and hitting it, the dummy has 0 eDR, we normally have 60% RI, but we wont get any damage increase, not to mention 60% increase. So no over penetration for PvE.
PvP interaction is different, and it's like PvP itself, better left unventured.
Last line of today's patch notes. I think you will find a significant amount of buffs that suffer from the same problem as Prophecy of Doom. They work for others but not the caster. I may debuff the enemy forces but I don't benefit from said buffs efficiently which is what is destroying my solo dps output as my 11k DC. This is why you guys shouldn't just armchair test other peoples personal reports. I was right. This is specifically to debuffs that don't get refreshed, like PoD you let it expire to get its full potential.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
This is why you guys shouldn't just armchair test other peoples personal reports. I was right.
You blamed it on the debuff changes as a whole, and we said it was probably some other issue because just blaming the debuff and armor pen changes made no sense, which is true.
We also said we'd like to help you identify the actual cause, assuming it was something specific to your playstyle. This also turned out to be true (PoD still isn't a popular spell choice, least of all solo).
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
@terramak my yeti is scared of every enemy, i thought he would be brave and face endless fears but if i am attacking enemies further than 55' away from me he comes run right back, even my fire archon is braver, he'll hold up to around 60'. Now seriously, there is a problem with the range of companions order of attack, it seems that the companion will only attack a target if that target is withing 50 + companion attack range, which in HR's can be problematic for multiple reasons, a lot of times companions just run back and forth depending on where the player is.
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with 15% resist ignore with 35% critical and 18k power i cleared the monsters in reservoir and it was like i playing on live with guild boons. I didnt notice any difference.
Solo, most players of most classes weren't likely getting anywhere near the debuff cap. This isn't going to change substantively either.
I honestly don't see any reason why any of this would make content a struggle that you found easy before. I'd like to identify a cause, but I don't think it's due to the debuff changes.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I mean, unless I've drastically misunderstood something.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
If you read the PVP changes and think that they apply in PVE too, then you'd be concerned.
I have literally tested on preview, at various ilvls (taking off gear, using rank 8 enchants), and all 6 of my toons can complete the new zones, let alone the old ones. So not everyone's damage got cut by 2/3's
I really think that they had a bad experience on preview and decided to attribute it to the discussion that they didn't fully understand. Hopefully by the time the changes go live they'll realize that it's not as bad as they thought.
Like becky, I'm happy to help speculate on causes, because again I think that the debuff changes being responsible is incredibly unlikely (even if you were running a full uncapped setup, the decrease in your damage when soloing would be closer to 10-20%... and you'd need to be close to BiS for it to hurt that much)
Finally, I'm actually in favor of the game introducing more difficult zones. Not all new content should be available to fresh lvl 70s. Increasing difficulty allows for progression, which is a good thing.
So for any folks reading this please note that many of us appreciate the increase difficulty, the scaling down of uncapped debuffs to bring balance to the pet world, and other changes to make the game more mechanics-focused rather than a straight dps check. "Overpenetration" was cited in one of the posts that got sent to the depths. I think it's a pretty good hint that the author is conflating the PVP changes with the PVE changes.
Because "overpenetration" was a thing in PVP, but not in PVE. However, rgustcheradev often talked about both sets of changes in one breath / post. Someone who doesn't have great command of the language and good context with the system mechanics could get confused.
Because our result = intended * ( 1 - eDR + RI )
we can
eDR = (result / intended) + RI
Without reaching the cap of RI = eDR.
The important thing is to not use any debuffs, accounting for those make it way harder.
Off course it can also be validated or calculated by reaching the RI = eDR by rising slowly and looking when the damage is not reduced.
The over-penetration will allegedly happen if RI > eDR and then we get a buff. But in practice it's capped, the whole ( 1 - eDR + RI ) thing can't go over 1 so no over penetration
It's easy to test by going to any dummy and hitting it, the dummy has 0 eDR, we normally have 60% RI, but we wont get any damage increase, not to mention 60% increase. So no over penetration for PvE.
PvP interaction is different, and it's like PvP itself, better left unventured.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
CW- Arms: Primal Raid Insognos
GWF- Arms: Primal Raid Bangili
Feet: Primal Raid Lapulapus
OP- Looks like they screwed up on the pally’s armor stats. A tank pally is supposed to be building a Power/Recovery build for the optimal support tanking, but as you can tell the game designers don’t play this game. Even though the stats are wrong on most of the gear it is still worth getting for the boost of Power stat you get out of them. You can make up the Recovery else-where.
Head: Primal Ward Umqhele
Chest: Primal Ward Ibhantshi
Arms: Primal Restoration Ibhendis
Feet: Primal Restoration Isikhumbas
GF- All: Primal Raid- All of the Primal Raid gear are worth getting for the GF
TR- Arms: Primal Raid Amibari
The rest, for those classes, are obsolete to the current (Mod-11.5) gear in stat sets, and the Mod-12 armor bonuses don’t make up for it either. None of the new chest pieces even match the Executioner’s Black Attire for dps classes. Yup, that’s right, all the work they put into the new designs has gone to waste simply because they couldn’t put in the right stats.
The rings are missing a Power and Crit set so we’re stuck with Dod rings or Rising Power/Precision rings. Unless you’re building Power and Recovery.
Those are all the classes I play and everything stated above is just my opinion, but seriously what's with the crappy stats!?!
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
For chest, Black Atire is the best no doubt but Rex Amiculum and Martyr's Plackart are descent alternative.
We also said we'd like to help you identify the actual cause, assuming it was something specific to your playstyle. This also turned out to be true (PoD still isn't a popular spell choice, least of all solo).
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia