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Any idea on how this affects tanking Orcus?

rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User
From the updated patch notes: https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1231249/shroud-of-souls-preview-patch-notes-nw-80-20170515e-3-updated-may-23

Due to adjustments that have been made to various classes since the release of Castle Never, the Orcus boss fight has become more difficult than intended in terms of surviving his attacks. Groups must rely on quickly defeating Orcus before he has time to execute any of his abilities, which was not the original intent for the boss. As such, we have made the following adjustments that should make the encounter a more balanced experience:
The amount of damage dealt by a majority of Orcus's abilities has been significantly reduced.
Orcus's various melee attacks now have noticeably different damage values from one another.
Orcus's maximum hit points have been increased.
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Comments

  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    rubytrue said:

    From the updated patch notes: https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1231249/shroud-of-souls-preview-patch-notes-nw-80-20170515e-3-updated-may-23

    Due to adjustments that have been made to various classes since the release of Castle Never, the Orcus boss fight has become more difficult than intended in terms of surviving his attacks. Groups must rely on quickly defeating Orcus before he has time to execute any of his abilities, which was not the original intent for the boss. As such, we have made the following adjustments that should make the encounter a more balanced experience:
    The amount of damage dealt by a majority of Orcus's abilities has been significantly reduced.
    Orcus's various melee attacks now have noticeably different damage values from one another.
    Orcus's maximum hit points have been increased.

    I believe pugs (especially if underpowered) will now struggle more as now that Orcus will be able to take more damage before dying= longer fight so more chances to wipe because of the green orbs. What that patch may change is what kills pugs but that's it. You could argue though that now low level tanks (especially GF's) will have the chance to survive Orcus' hits instead of getting 1 - 3 shotted.

    High level players will continue to beat CN easily.
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    It's hard to say based on vague patch notes, but I agree with jaime4312.

    I also think it will make wipes take longer. Because now the the common wipes I experience are tank goes down early and we can't recover. Now the tank is less likely to go down right away, so the fight will be longer with more chances for mistakes. Either the green balls take you out or you lose people one by one until you can't anymore.

    I don't think this will impact end-game parties whatsoever, unless they dramatically increase the HP (like 10x or more).
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    I'm curious if DevOPs will now be able to tank Orcus....(some can, I know, but I am wondering if this opens up the numbers and types of toons that can tank him).
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    That would be pretty funny. If I focus really hard, my DC now can kinda tank Orcus at least kinda. With this change maybe the whole party will be able to facetank orcus and there will be no need for tanks in T2 and below at all...

    (and I don't mean no GF/OP classes, because both provide amazing party utility, just no need for them to use tanky loadouts at all)
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    I'll have to give it a shot tonight. Between companion gift, bane and shield of faith, it should kind of interesting. Might be able to hold aggro with all the healing.....
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    I'm just going to put this in here from the patch notes as it should impact tanking Orcus:

    Young Yeti: This companion's Active Bonus now properly increases damage as stated in the tooltip. The tooltip has been updated with more details.

    Edit: 60 second cooldown? Booooo.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    Let us know how that turns out Ruby. Personally I'd prefer to avoid unnecessarily attacking the big guy's attention as the party's principle healing source but if you can make it work...might give it a try. Good hunting.
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  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    Meant to say attracting. Need more coffee.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
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  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    I think the key is finding out what "significantly reduced" actually means in gameplay. If I can survive a one-shot, I should be okay as I can heal up rather quickly. If that means more teammates can get closer to him because the focus is on me, then I don't mind the aggro.
  • veywiil#8685 veywiil Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Yes, this is way over analyzed.

    Currently when Ruby and I run together either one of us can tank Orcus, thanks to having 2 paladins being able to debuff him fairly thoroughly. They said they were going to reduce the damage which is good, what I now fear is his swing pattern. Before every swing did the same (if not very close) to the same damage. Now they might actually be buffing him if 1 swing does close to nothing(the quick one). Meanwhile a longer one might do more damage than even the original number. I'm looking at you hands raised above head, waiting to get 1 shot for 5 seconds animation.

    If they truly did reduce the numbers after everything is said and done, and the damage decreased by more than 10%. Then yes, a devotion paladin can tank Orcus with no real concerns from him, other than the every threatening green balls of death. The main trick is that the person playing the Devotion pally needs to have complete control and focus on the fight. Mistakes only happen when you are trying to be hasty or are not paying full attention in Orcus. I run the Burnadin guide at 53% DR with no buffs on, and have very few concerns tanking it now. If the team would stay where they are at we wouldn't even need to scatter, like the Mystery gang in ScoobyDoo, when Orcus summons the giant floating spheres of complete and utter annihilation.

    HP increase to Orcus means more time spent on the fight, no big deal until human nature kicks in, and is like, we need to make this go faster so do more dps in a shorter time period. THEN we start seeing mistakes, and thanks to the well-documented nature of PUGS and public queues, we will see a large deal of pugs now fail, simply because 'it takes to long'. Again this depends on the actual numbers, but PUGs are not known for their patience in combat.

    tl;dr
    As it stands now the hardest part is surviving the initial hit or 2 if Orcus decides to crit.
    As it stands in the future, the the hardest part will be denying the 'just 1 more' instinct for powers and dps during the fight.
    All that has changed is the fact that you now need to resist the internal struggle rather than the external one. The difficulty has increased because we inherently do not want to fight ourselves internally.
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  • mcgwarfacemcgwarface Member Posts: 160 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    So in preview they are potentially lowering the damage of Orcus (to reduce one shots) and buffing him w more hitpoints. I always thought it should be this way. Never understood how he could randomly one shot me through 430k hps (210k +TW), Binding Oath and 100% Dam Res.

    If this becomes a new trend w future bosses how will you alter your power loadouts as a protection or devotion pally?
  • ase#2329 ase Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    Orcus is officially a HAMSTER now...
    You can tank and keep chatting on guild channel now...
    Really disappointing :/
  • veywiil#8685 veywiil Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    I find it very rude that you had to start a new thread for this instead of maybe looking for 2 seconds and seeing that one was already open, not even 4 threads down from this...

    @kreatyve Can we get this merged?
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  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,485 Community Moderator

    I find it very rude that you had to start a new thread for this instead of maybe looking for 2 seconds and seeing that one was already open, not even 4 threads down from this...

    @kreatyve Can we get this merged?

    Merged, however in the future, please utilize the flag button for merge requests. Thanks.
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  • veywiil#8685 veywiil Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    I find it very rude that you had to start a new thread for this instead of maybe looking for 2 seconds and seeing that one was already open, not even 4 threads down from this...

    @kreatyve Can we get this merged?

    Merged, however in the future, please utilize the flag button for merge requests. Thanks.
    My apologies not up to date on the forum features/usage.
    I'm a theorycrafter, that means I can answer fairly deep questions with scientific theory, mathematical proof, and some guessing. Ask me stuff!
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    Uh, wow. Did they ever nerf Orcus. I sat there and face tanked him (ok, there was another tank, too, since I queued as a DevOP). I think the new challenge is whether or not you can make it through Orcus without your HP bar moving. Death balls barely tickle you now. Devs need to up the difficulty a bit; they may have misplaced a decimal point....

    Absolutely zero reason to queue as a ProtOP for Orcus unless you want to get in a queue as a tank and switch over to DevOP for more DPS. Seriously, regular mobs are now harder than Orcus.
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    To be fair, Orcus is now more accessible and tankable by lower geared Tanks...so that is good.
  • oggycz#5356 oggycz Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    I did CN run with ACT running. DMG from Orcus was much lower than expected. Max hit (base dmg 220k) I got from first boss!!! Orcus ball base dmg falls from 230k to 110k. Power word kill from 240k to 160k. But he has much more HP. Final boss in EGWD is even more dangerous than Orcus for me. I personally do not like Orcus dmg nerf. I think it has to be harder dungeon than other t2.
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  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    Can we have a new EPIC CN Dungeon now? with better rewards? ehmmmm
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  • voidgiftvoidgift Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 286 Arc User
    Yes, please! Our tank that got one-shotted before the patch never lost more then 10% of hit points after the patch. CN is a joke now.
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  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    Been there yesterday and even with full DPS setup with 50% DR he barely scratched me so yeah....it's a LOT easier.
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  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    We can change his tittle from "prince of demons" to "prince of muppets"
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  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    voidgift said:

    Yes, please! Our tank that got one-shotted before the patch never lost more then 10% of hit points after the patch. CN is a joke now.

    CN already was a joke though.
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    edited May 2017

    We can change his tittle from "prince of demons" to "prince of muppets"

    More like "princess of demons"
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    the problem with orcus was not his damage but the high chance his damage crits, my op with circle of power, daily for +dmg res and shield up, had negation armor ench, still his crits ignred all of the dmg resistance something is wrong with that boss and i was using r12 bonding, bard from third eye campign shop with loyal defender gear still 3xpieces, it one shoted me, i did without my plague fire and without my negation and died before he switched to the fase of the center dead orb were undead needs to be killled something is not working well in CN, how could my op without enchantments survive better than with enchatments, fulll r8 rad in offence and def slots.Bane and TW other 2 slots.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,793 Arc User
    He doesn't ignore your damage it's just that he hits so hard - on average 800-900k per swing. With 95% DR he'll still hit you for 112k damage and if he gets you with a big one you have to be ready. It's always advisable to prep with Absolution before you go in because those first few seconds before you've got your routine up are your most vulnerable.
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  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    He doesn't ignore your damage it's just that he hits so hard - on average 800-900k per swing. With 95% DR he'll still hit you for 112k damage and if he gets you with a big one you have to be ready. It's always advisable to prep with Absolution before you go in because those first few seconds before you've got your routine up are your most vulnerable.

    If you check out oggycz's ACT report, Orcus got a heavy duty haircut in the damage department....he ain't hitting for 800-900K/swing anymore.
  • oggycz#5356 oggycz Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    rubytrue said:

    armadeonx said:

    He doesn't ignore your damage it's just that he hits so hard - on average 800-900k per swing. With 95% DR he'll still hit you for 112k damage and if he gets you with a big one you have to be ready. It's always advisable to prep with Absolution before you go in because those first few seconds before you've got your routine up are your most vulnerable.

    If you check out oggycz's ACT report, Orcus got a heavy duty haircut in the damage department....he ain't hitting for 800-900K/swing anymore.
    Yep, but I use Feytouched enchant and Bane, so his max base hits (wand sweep, wand bash) were about 450-500k before patch. Anyway, as I wrote, first boss hits me harder than Orcus.
    Post edited by oggycz#5356 on
    Svatá Prdelka
    game - Human/real life - ???
    OP 18k+ Devotion/Justice - Light
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,793 Arc User
    Interesting stuff - is that the damage nerf they are talking about on the preview server threads or are they planning on doing another one? :D

    The first boss is the only one I use my shield on because of his stuns - I have it up about 2/3rds of the time.
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  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    It is live on PC....
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