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  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User

    (Yeah... we might do that one in my household fairly frequently. Usually when someone was partway through an instance and got called away. No spawns available for more loot, just don't want to start over.)

    Thank god that was a "might" otherwise this would be proof positive of nefarious behavior.

    Cryptic gotta make sure you don't gain an unfair advantage over single / forever alone players.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Hey I often watch YouTube whiLe I play my character, and click back over to make him run or jump so I don't log out once every 10 minutes or so.
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  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User

    Hey I often watch YouTube whiLe I play my character, and click back over to make him run or jump so I don't log out once every 10 minutes or so.

    Perfectly legitimate, human.

    As long as it's your human hand doing the clicking / keyboarding, human, you are granted the rare privilege of continued access to this amazing game.

    But care not to let a different human or worse yet, a non-human, help you with the clicking. That would warrant swift, decisive, and punitive action.
  • linaduinlinaduin Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    litaaers said:

    linaduin said:

    using a third party program to automate repeated tasks = botting.
    allowing a companion or auto-attacking toon to fight while you sleep = unattended gameplay.
    manually repeating tedious tasks for hours for some small gain = playing Neverwinter.

    Haha. That 2nd one is interesting tho, is that against the rules? Lets say I stand in zone with my pet and someone calls me or I have to go away for a few min. Would I be breaking the rules then? Since my pet might kill stuff and I gain loot..?

    I'm sure there is a time variable involved. For instance, no call lasts for three days for 12 hours/day.

    In LOTRO unattended gameplay was against the EULA/ToS. The rule was that if a GM tries to contact you and you don't respond then it's unattended gameplay. Of course, other players can report you. Why would you bother in NWO? For XP? You can level 1-70 in a week. Nodes are nerfed and Dragon chants etc. are timed. They're onto it.
  • spideymtspideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User

    We really need a current offical statment by Cryptic as to how they define botting.

    No, we do not. Its well known what a botter is and does. I dont need a description from Cryptic. I got a description from cryp how i should play the game and i have the ToS. What else do i need?

  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    The only area where there is a question of what's not allowed is players who do everything manually but were flagged as bots anyway. That needs better detection criteria. They can't share their detection criteria because that's providing the recipe for an undetectable bot.

    I don't see why Cryptic needs to define botting beyond any kind of automated scripting of in-game activities whether they are simple or more complicated.
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  • btairbornebtairborne Member Posts: 352 Arc User
    Give me a break, they won't ban you for doing these manually. There is no way that even looks like botting. Manual is no way as efficient when you are comparing logs.
  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,809 Arc User

    Give me a break, they won't ban you for doing these manually. There is no way that even looks like botting. Manual is no way as efficient when you are comparing logs.

    Most bots are going to be programmed to be slightly inefficient, so as to look like a human. Sure, if you are trying to find the bots running 24/7 on a farm of computers, that really shouldn't be that hard. But from the logs, its probably almost impossible to determine if something is a script/bot, or done manually.

    Many people believe that if you have tons of toons, refresh the profs on them all regularly, and invoke them all...you'll get flagged. While its impossible to know for sure, I believe many people have been banned for botting when they were just really good at resetting their toons every day.

    +1 for the people that want the actual problem - repetitive gameplay - addressed.
    +1 for cryptic admitting...via corporate spinning...that they messed up.

  • samerikersameriker Member Posts: 127 Arc User
    mynaam said:

    I am actually interested if Using ACT is Seen as botting. This does not affect the game at all it just graphically display the result of the data collected by the game itself using /combatlog 1. If it is can some please let me know as I do find this a useful tool

    You can use any parser they just read and interpret your combat logs, nothing more. There is additional information in the official wiki under combat about the two parsers available to use. http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Combat#Combat_Log

    Also parsers can work offline on the combat file as well (if you are paranoid about using it during combat).
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  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,053 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Making a machine emulate human behaviour has been the subject of discussions in the computer science business for a long time. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

    As an extension of that: Only the bad bots get caught? :)
    Post edited by mentinmindmaker on
  • kzone#2148 kzone Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    The fact that this question needs to be asked, speaks volumes for just how disastrous the most recent ban wave is.

    Clearly, they banned people without proof that folks were botting. They simply interpreted some statistics to imply someone was botting.

    As others have stated, address the repetitive bot like gameplay and this should never be a problem. Likewise, don't ever ban an innocent player.
  • dameon2kdameon2k Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    I am sure the developers have methods of gaining information that is not privy to any of us. All we can do is speculate. I am sure they are not about to share that information with us.

    I will say this much, if you gain anything from Neverwinter while not sitting at the computer, then you are botting to some degree. There is no arguing or debating that. Trying to play on TOS words to benefit you will not win you any battles. You know if you are manually doing the work or taking shortcuts. If you are doing everything manually, you know your ban was wrong, and if that is not the case you know your ban was justified. It really is that simple. No one should have to ask what botting is unless they are a new player to mmos.

    What I think Cryptic/PW should be clear about, is if their algorithm used actually banned people doing everything manually. This is information people should have. You don't even have to go into detail, just say that happened, because the assumption becomes that these people were not doing everything manually if they were banned, especially if put on probation. Clarification helps...
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 839 Arc User
    dameon2k said:

    I am sure the developers have methods of gaining information that is not privy to any of us. All we can do is speculate. I am sure they are not about to share that information with us.

    Why they should? Even if they would like, it's would be total nonsense. Because it's like swat team would inform terrorist group that they plan use flashbang grenades during assault. So what do terrorist do? They get countermeasures, and negate flashbangs and bring to point swat team have 0 tools< .
    dameon2k said:


    I will say this much, if you gain anything from Neverwinter while not sitting at the computer, then you are botting to some degree. There is no arguing or debating that. Trying to play on TOS words to benefit you will not win you any battles. You know if you are manually doing the work or taking shortcuts. If you are doing everything manually, you know your ban was wrong, and if that is not the case you know your ban was justified. It really is that simple. No one should have to ask what botting is unless they are a new player to mmos.

    dameon2k said:


    What I think Cryptic/PW should be clear about, is if their algorithm used actually banned people doing everything manually. This is information people should have. You don't even have to go into detail, just say that happened, because the assumption becomes that these people were not doing everything manually if they were banned, especially if put on probation. Clarification helps...

    Now try use logic, how many players are in neverwinter. I am not familiar to how extend NWO logs register stuffs, but I assume it work as all other mmorpg games..
    Thats mean< Once you log in game, you start making game logs,
    You moved to x place, you wrote x stuff in chat, you bought x stuff from grocery or auction house, you did trading, or exchanged zen to AD or AD to zen, you done x dungeon/skirmish, you invoked, you crafted via proffesion. All these stuffs got registered and game logs.

    Now take all players who are online, take all their 1min gameplayers logs. It would be big load of data. And to handle it manually, well Good luck with that< But need to remind, that game runs not 1 min, but 24/7..


    From all my known mmo games, this matter is done by special tools(software).

    And only guys within support services recheck logs when receive ticket from players that their accounts where suspended by mistake..
    And after rechecking that logs which security tools identified and bot< and decide to either remove suspending or keep it banned.. :)

    Thats how work most of mmo games.. So here NWO should be similar way.. Unless here staff do 100% differently :)

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  • jade1280jade1280 Member Posts: 174 Arc User
    They are the ones who send me messages when ever i access the bank at protectors enclave without fail every first visit there each day i get a message instantly from a gold seller and when i report it the system does not know the person.
  • aliguanaaliguana Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    sameriker said:

    You can use any parser they just read and interpret your combat logs, nothing more. There is additional information in the official wiki under combat about the two parsers available to use. http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Combat#Combat_Log

    Also parsers can work offline on the combat file as well (if you are paranoid about using it during combat).

    not just that, but use of combat log parsers are practically compulsory in Star Trek online, to the point where you wonder why they're not built into the game client. Cryptic don't have a problem with those. (NW doesn't need parsers as much, due to the way your stats are displayed)

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