I friend using T holy told me when playing with 2 DCs in FBI, has seen his enchant at 3600% damage and still states it is not broken. How is this possible?
I'm not sure, but I would assume it is to be safe.
I remember @tom#6998 saying somewhere that the Feytouched one person buff thing got fixed during the Mod10 weapon enchantment preview testing phase, but then the rumor continued to pop up in other places.
Because the damage from weapon enchantments, like your powers, scale with your buffs and debuffs.
So, at that moment, when your buddy checked the tooltip, there were a lot of buffs and debuffs up. Simple.
hey, I know that lolzz ))
I mean when I check my flaming or lighting enchant with 2 DCs never seen a so high value, by far.
3600% seems...broken
Sorry to break it to you, but that's probably WAI (or as close to WAI as we can get in this game heh). % values that high are not unusual (esp for T. Holy) if you're running with multiple end-game power-share builds (DCs, OPs, and even SW can help a bit).
Remember that your weapon damage is usually puny, so even if you multiply it a lot it will only make up a small portion of your damage output.
FWIW when the change to scaling WE damage with power was implemented, a few folks mentioned that it would be confusing if the tooltip scaled. The suggestion was to just leave it at the "base" value and indicate verbally that it scales with power.
Instead they gave us this confusing number that looks suspicious when you are having your power buffed, and is more or less useless for every other purpose (since you always have to look at it with respect to a power state, what additional information does displaying the scaling convey?)
> @rjc9000 said: > It's not you. Vorpal is supposed to be the all around enchantment, but suffers from master of none syndrome. > > The advantages of being jack of all trades isn't as advantageous when we have the ability to swap into specialized enchants fit for their specialized roles. It also doesn't help that the GWF can stack a large amount of Critical Severity, which hurts the usefulness of Vorpal even further. > > As you've noted, most of the GWF's DPS is going to be Sure Strike and WMS, with some IBSes, Hidden Daggers, and Crescendos mixed in. So buffing your Sure Strikes on single target and WMS on AoE are your top priorities for DPS. > > My top two picks, assuming you had all the resources in the world, in addition to a good team, would be: > > -Trans Lightning for AoE (and I'm not even accounting the Lightning + Steel Blitz thing) > -Trans Holy Avenger for single target > > Lightning is obvious for AoE. > > Holy for single because, with a team who knows their buffs and debuffs, bosses will melt within the span of less than a couple of seconds (check any FBI speedrun with a GWF, most bosses can be burned extremely quickly). Bile and Flaming take too long to kick in (and Flaming has a high possibility to jam, especially given how quick a GWF swings in Unstoppable). > > Holy would be my choice over the similar Terror and Lightning because Holy Avenger's weird buff thing puts its weapon damage ahead of Lightning and Terror. Also, Lightning's burst doesn't crit.... so... > > I recognize that getting a Trans Holy/Lightning is going to set you back by nearly 20 mil AD, so, if you're a bit short on cash and only have the option to pick one enchant on the list, I would pick up a Feytouched for actually being good at its jack of all stats role (which is what I use, since I'm poor).
the problem with feytouched is if you end up in a group with someone else using a feytouched as only one will get the proc
the problem with feytouched is if you end up in a group with someone else using a feytouched as only one will get the proc
I believe that was fixed during the Mod11 weapon enchantment changes (although Feytouched still has noticable bugs, like not proccing on daily attacks). I'll search for the exact post that the devs made, if not, it's back to good ol' fashion hand testing.
And also, as a note to this overall weapon enchantment project: I'm sort of busy not running tests figuring how I'd impliment the Terror debuff, given that the debuff is actually worth something now that the cap is gone (but also will be subject to varying DPS increases thanks to debuff scaling).
Is the terror going to be worth while in mod 12? If so maybe I should start investing in it now(I'm on Xbox)
In my opinion, Terror is a pretty great "budget" option and pretty likely presents the best value after the changes. Not BiS for any role, but decent dps / utility and awesome visual. Also will be cheaper than the shiniest stuff.
Is the terror going to be worth while in mod 12? If so maybe I should start investing in it now(I'm on Xbox)
In my opinion, Terror is a pretty great "budget" option and pretty likely presents the best value after the changes. Not BiS for any role, but decent dps / utility and awesome visual. Also will be cheaper than the shiniest stuff.
Effectively, Holy and Terror are the same enchant save for their special bonus, which is the 15 seconds of extra Radiant damage (Holy) and then the debuff (Terror).
The Terror debuff remains up for pretty much all of the fight and it affects your team (in addition to your own DPS), which is why I'm curious as to how I'd calculate the Terror debuff to compare it against the Holy buff.
Maybe I misread something, but it seems that the flaming enchantment would have the higher damage IF given time for the DOT to kick in: basically 3 seconds.
Since there is no boss that lasts this few, and some tough mobs can last for a couple of seconds too, why it doesn't get much love? This is even more important for non game-ending toons which don't melt the mobs they approach ^_^
For reference, I have a 11.648 GWF on PS4
OFF TOPIC: what do you guys think is better to get a trans enchantment? I recently bought 4 R8 flaming for a cheap price (120k AD) planning to refine them to rank 10, only to discover that the level up % is only 1, thus needing a coalescent ward (another 250k-320k ad... x2...) Maybe I should have saved more and bought 2 r10?
Maybe I misread something, but it seems that the flaming enchantment would have the higher damage IF given time for the DOT to kick in: basically 3 seconds.
Since there is no boss that lasts this few, and some tough mobs can last for a couple of seconds too, why it doesn't get much love? This is even more important for non game-ending toons which don't melt the mobs they approach ^_^
For reference, I have a 11.648 GWF on PS4
OFF TOPIC: what do you guys think is better to get a trans enchantment? I recently bought 4 R8 flaming for a cheap price (120k AD) planning to refine them to rank 10, only to discover that the level up % is only 1, thus needing a coalescent ward (another 250k-320k ad... x2...) Maybe I should have saved more and bought 2 r10?
Thanks for your kindness.
You're correct about Flaming works.
You can only refresh the stacks every so often and given that a lot of abilities put 2-3 stacks on target. (I still remember I need to just run a quick test to see if a typical GWF rotation causes Flaming to jame.)
As a GWF approaching endgame, I personally would not level a flaming as your "single" enchantment: it's too niche, especially if you only have enough money to make one enchant (Flaming is mediocre on mobs, can potentially suck on single target, and has limited use on other classes).
For your money, if you're exclusively a GWF person, I would personally get a Terror, since, at the moment, it's a weaker Holy Avenger. You could also elect to make a Trans Lightning for melting mobs, although you would have to deal with less than stellar damage on bosses.
I have no clue what prices are on PS4, but if it's anything like PC, it would probably be cheaper to just buy a Trans Terror than to make one (on PC, they were ~4 mil and if you make an enchant from scratch, the Coal Ward costs alone puts a Trans Weapon enchant at about 6 million).
If you're a person who happens to like playing other classes, I'd go for Feytouched, as Feytouched is decent enough on GWF, but is also decent on a wide variety of other classes (good on OP for more Templar's damage, good on GF for damage or for the damage mitigation, okay on CW/TR for single target, not sure about SW or HR, since they're buggy classes).
I know this is a weapon enchant thread but I had a question about the negation, I was reading through a build and the person said that the trans isn't stack up to the 10 times it's only stack three however the pure is working properly anybody able to confirm this for me??
Maybe I misread something, but it seems that the flaming enchantment would have the higher damage IF given time for the DOT to kick in: basically 3 seconds.
Since there is no boss that lasts this few, and some tough mobs can last for a couple of seconds too, why it doesn't get much love? This is even more important for non game-ending toons which don't melt the mobs they approach ^_^
For reference, I have a 11.648 GWF on PS4
OFF TOPIC: what do you guys think is better to get a trans enchantment? I recently bought 4 R8 flaming for a cheap price (120k AD) planning to refine them to rank 10, only to discover that the level up % is only 1, thus needing a coalescent ward (another 250k-320k ad... x2...) Maybe I should have saved more and bought 2 r10?
Thanks for your kindness.
You're correct about Flaming works.
You can only refresh the stacks every so often and given that a lot of abilities put 2-3 stacks on target. (I still remember I need to just run a quick test to see if a typical GWF rotation causes Flaming to jame.)
As a GWF approaching endgame, I personally would not level a flaming as your "single" enchantment: it's too niche, especially if you only have enough money to make one enchant (Flaming is mediocre on mobs, can potentially suck on single target, and has limited use on other classes).
For your money, if you're exclusively a GWF person, I would personally get a Terror, since, at the moment, it's a weaker Holy Avenger. You could also elect to make a Trans Lightning for melting mobs, although you would have to deal with less than stellar damage on bosses.
I have no clue what prices are on PS4, but if it's anything like PC, it would probably be cheaper to just buy a Trans Terror than to make one (on PC, they were ~4 mil and if you make an enchant from scratch, the Coal Ward costs alone puts a Trans Weapon enchant at about 6 million).
If you're a person who happens to like playing other classes, I'd go for Feytouched, as Feytouched is decent enough on GWF, but is also decent on a wide variety of other classes (good on OP for more Templar's damage, good on GF for damage or for the damage mitigation, okay on CW/TR for single target, not sure about SW or HR, since they're buggy classes).
Thanks for your quick answers rjc9000.
If I understand correctly, it seems there's a sort of cooldown for flaming's stacks: if I hit a target 3 times it will get 3 stacks that will DOT once per second for the next 3 secs, but after those 3 seconds there will be a colldown for putting the next stack, meaning that there will be "time holes" during which my damage will get only the direct buff from flaming and not the DOT.
Thus the flaming would have the "highest damage in 3 seconds", but then would fell off to others enchantment which have stable damage.
Am I right?
Regarding my enchantments, at the moment I own 1 R9 Flaming (fully refined) 2 R8 Flaming (one of which is fully refined) 1 R8 Lightning 1 R8 Terror 1 R8 Frost*
I already switch between Flaming and Lightning+Steel Bliz for bosses and mobs. I have a CW that i really don't use apart from professions ad refining raw ADs, but I always thought it would be nice to have a tank (not sure if GF or OP) and a DC.
It seems that the best enchantment to invest into would be Feytouched or Terror, given that Holy Avenger is generally BIS and Lightning is BIS for mobs. I need to check some prices in order to make my choice, but I dare to say that the difference in performance between Terror and Holy is not worth the AD difference.
*= a curious story: I was checking the AH while in the Cloack tower and the R8 Frost tooltip listed a very high bonus damage like 28% or so, it was very cheap so I bought it. I don't remember the exact value but I'm sure that once I got out of the tower the tooltip displayed a much lower bonus dmg. Strange thing.
As for your Frost situation, all the tooltips scale with buffs and/or debuffs, such as Power, Into the Fray, Destroyer stacks, etc. When you were viewing the Frost tooltip, it is possible that you were standing next to an AC DC/OP with Aura Gifts who was buffing your power, or you might have had Bonding buff leftover from combat while shopping. And lastly, in Cloak Tower, stat scaling is super inflated at low levels, so something like 5000 Power could read as a 100% or more damage bonus in the tooltip.
If you're about to ask about why I didn't bother with calculating buff/debuff scaling for enchants, the reasoning is that the formula already accounts for it. The formula can be summed up as:
Weapon Enchant Damage/Damage of Ability which procs the enchant.
Any enchant will also receive the properties and buffs of the ability which procs it. So, if you toss out Hidden Daggers and you use Sure Strike, both Sure Strike and enchant you use receive the Hidden Daggers buff, which, if we applied to our formula, would simply be the same as multiplying the formula by 1.4/1.4, which is the same as 1/1, which would still result in the same ratio of DPS increase, regardless of how much you scale the formula.
There are a million and one threads about "which tank to roll", so you can find one and make a judgement for yourself.
If you're looking to level up another enchant, Frost is not bad for a DC or GF. Terror would be decent for a GF, but is mostly restricted to a defensive setup. Paladin would probably best benefit from a Feytouched.
Unaccessable because I purposely took it down to revamp for Mod12 debuff changes (and finding Bilethorn/Lightning Crit/non Crit stuff).
Kk. Just wanted to check some stuff out but no biggie. Take your time.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
edited July 2017
@rjc9000 Do you have any opinion on enchantments vs. mobs beyond lightning? How Holy Avenger stacks up there? I appreciate your massive work on single target, I'm curious about best all-around enchantment as well.
Sometimes the game doesn't provide an opportunity to switch, ie. MSVA starts with mobs, then enters single target. Spellplague has broken fires, etc.
The name more or less ends up being an artifact after I started doing more comparisons and I'm too lazy to change it. The DPS increase of enchants should mostly remain the regardless of the amount of targets you hit, with the exception of Lightning (which gets better with more targets hit) and Bilethorn, of which you simply multiply the second hit's J value per amount of targets hit (personally, Bile is too slow for me to consider on AoE fights).
I'm surprised you literally can't swap, since you can pay gold pieces to swap enchants.
The best all arounder would probably still be Holy, because most mobs die extremely quickly. I don't think there's *that* huge of a difference on whether you burn them 0.5 sec faster with Lightning or burn mobs 0.5 sec later with Holy. And, of course, on bosses, it's very hard to beat a Trans Holy...
I don't see a need for this thread anymore, given that I released my master version of weapon enchant comparisons.
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
Closed at OP's request.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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I friend using T holy told me when playing with 2 DCs in FBI, has seen his enchant at 3600% damage and still states it is not broken. How is this possible?
So, at that moment, when your buddy checked the tooltip, there were a lot of buffs and debuffs up. Simple.
I'm not sure, but I would assume it is to be safe.
I remember @tom#6998 saying somewhere that the Feytouched one person buff thing got fixed during the Mod10 weapon enchantment preview testing phase, but then the rumor continued to pop up in other places.
I mean when I check my flaming or lighting enchant with 2 DCs never seen a so high value, by far.
3600% seems...broken
there's been so much broken stuff in this game that a 120x multiplier to your weapon enchant damage doesn't seem that bad.
Prepatch TC and prepatch Ambush Drake... mmmm..... delicious thousands of % of effectiveness...
Remember that your weapon damage is usually puny, so even if you multiply it a lot it will only make up a small portion of your damage output.
FWIW when the change to scaling WE damage with power was implemented, a few folks mentioned that it would be confusing if the tooltip scaled. The suggestion was to just leave it at the "base" value and indicate verbally that it scales with power.
Instead they gave us this confusing number that looks suspicious when you are having your power buffed, and is more or less useless for every other purpose (since you always have to look at it with respect to a power state, what additional information does displaying the scaling convey?)
> It's not you. Vorpal is supposed to be the all around enchantment, but suffers from master of none syndrome.
>
> The advantages of being jack of all trades isn't as advantageous when we have the ability to swap into specialized enchants fit for their specialized roles. It also doesn't help that the GWF can stack a large amount of Critical Severity, which hurts the usefulness of Vorpal even further.
>
> As you've noted, most of the GWF's DPS is going to be Sure Strike and WMS, with some IBSes, Hidden Daggers, and Crescendos mixed in. So buffing your Sure Strikes on single target and WMS on AoE are your top priorities for DPS.
>
> My top two picks, assuming you had all the resources in the world, in addition to a good team, would be:
>
> -Trans Lightning for AoE (and I'm not even accounting the Lightning + Steel Blitz thing)
> -Trans Holy Avenger for single target
>
> Lightning is obvious for AoE.
>
> Holy for single because, with a team who knows their buffs and debuffs, bosses will melt within the span of less than a couple of seconds (check any FBI speedrun with a GWF, most bosses can be burned extremely quickly). Bile and Flaming take too long to kick in (and Flaming has a high possibility to jam, especially given how quick a GWF swings in Unstoppable).
>
> Holy would be my choice over the similar Terror and Lightning because Holy Avenger's weird buff thing puts its weapon damage ahead of Lightning and Terror. Also, Lightning's burst doesn't crit.... so...
>
> I recognize that getting a Trans Holy/Lightning is going to set you back by nearly 20 mil AD, so, if you're a bit short on cash and only have the option to pick one enchant on the list, I would pick up a Feytouched for actually being good at its jack of all stats role (which is what I use, since I'm poor).
the problem with feytouched is if you end up in a group with someone else using a feytouched as only one will get the proc
And also, as a note to this overall weapon enchantment project: I'm sort of busy
not running testsfiguring how I'd impliment the Terror debuff, given that the debuff is actually worth something now that the cap is gone (but also will be subject to varying DPS increases thanks to debuff scaling).The Terror debuff remains up for pretty much all of the fight and it affects your team (in addition to your own DPS), which is why I'm curious as to how I'd calculate the Terror debuff to compare it against the Holy buff.
Since there is no boss that lasts this few, and some tough mobs can last for a couple of seconds too, why it doesn't get much love?
This is even more important for non game-ending toons which don't melt the mobs they approach ^_^
For reference, I have a 11.648 GWF on PS4
OFF TOPIC: what do you guys think is better to get a trans enchantment? I recently bought 4 R8 flaming for a cheap price (120k AD) planning to refine them to rank 10, only to discover that the level up % is only 1, thus needing a coalescent ward (another 250k-320k ad... x2...)
Maybe I should have saved more and bought 2 r10?
Thanks for your kindness.
You can only refresh the stacks every so often and given that a lot of abilities put 2-3 stacks on target. (I still remember I need to just run a quick test to see if a typical GWF rotation causes Flaming to jame.)
As a GWF approaching endgame, I personally would not level a flaming as your "single" enchantment: it's too niche, especially if you only have enough money to make one enchant (Flaming is mediocre on mobs, can potentially suck on single target, and has limited use on other classes).
For your money, if you're exclusively a GWF person, I would personally get a Terror, since, at the moment, it's a weaker Holy Avenger. You could also elect to make a Trans Lightning for melting mobs, although you would have to deal with less than stellar damage on bosses.
I have no clue what prices are on PS4, but if it's anything like PC, it would probably be cheaper to just buy a Trans Terror than to make one (on PC, they were ~4 mil and if you make an enchant from scratch, the Coal Ward costs alone puts a Trans Weapon enchant at about 6 million).
If you're a person who happens to like playing other classes, I'd go for Feytouched, as Feytouched is decent enough on GWF, but is also decent on a wide variety of other classes (good on OP for more Templar's damage, good on GF for damage or for the damage mitigation, okay on CW/TR for single target, not sure about SW or HR, since they're buggy classes).
Thanks for your quick answers rjc9000.
If I understand correctly, it seems there's a sort of cooldown for flaming's stacks: if I hit a target 3 times it will get 3 stacks that will DOT once per second for the next 3 secs, but after those 3 seconds there will be a colldown for putting the next stack, meaning that there will be "time holes" during which my damage will get only the direct buff from flaming and not the DOT.
Thus the flaming would have the "highest damage in 3 seconds", but then would fell off to others enchantment which have stable damage.
Am I right?
Regarding my enchantments, at the moment I own
1 R9 Flaming (fully refined)
2 R8 Flaming (one of which is fully refined)
1 R8 Lightning
1 R8 Terror
1 R8 Frost*
I already switch between Flaming and Lightning+Steel Bliz for bosses and mobs. I have a CW that i really don't use apart from professions ad refining raw ADs, but I always thought it would be nice to have a tank (not sure if GF or OP) and a DC.
It seems that the best enchantment to invest into would be Feytouched or Terror, given that Holy Avenger is
generally BIS and Lightning is BIS for mobs. I need to check some prices in order to make my choice, but I dare to say that the difference in performance between Terror and Holy is not worth the AD difference.
*= a curious story: I was checking the AH while in the Cloack tower and the R8 Frost tooltip listed a very high bonus damage like 28% or so, it was very cheap so I bought it. I don't remember the exact value but I'm sure that once I got out of the tower the tooltip displayed a much lower bonus dmg. Strange thing.
As for your Frost situation, all the tooltips scale with buffs and/or debuffs, such as Power, Into the Fray, Destroyer stacks, etc. When you were viewing the Frost tooltip, it is possible that you were standing next to an AC DC/OP with Aura Gifts who was buffing your power, or you might have had Bonding buff leftover from combat while shopping. And lastly, in Cloak Tower, stat scaling is super inflated at low levels, so something like 5000 Power could read as a 100% or more damage bonus in the tooltip.
If you're about to ask about why I didn't bother with calculating buff/debuff scaling for enchants, the reasoning is that the formula already accounts for it. The formula can be summed up as:
Weapon Enchant Damage/Damage of Ability which procs the enchant.
Any enchant will also receive the properties and buffs of the ability which procs it. So, if you toss out Hidden Daggers and you use Sure Strike, both Sure Strike and enchant you use receive the Hidden Daggers buff, which, if we applied to our formula, would simply be the same as multiplying the formula by 1.4/1.4, which is the same as 1/1, which would still result in the same ratio of DPS increase, regardless of how much you scale the formula.
There are a million and one threads about "which tank to roll", so you can find one and make a judgement for yourself.
If you're looking to level up another enchant, Frost is not bad for a DC or GF. Terror would be decent for a GF, but is mostly restricted to a defensive setup. Paladin would probably best benefit from a Feytouched.
And ty for all your hard work. Appreciated.
Sometimes the game doesn't provide an opportunity to switch, ie. MSVA starts with mobs, then enters single target. Spellplague has broken fires, etc.
I'm surprised you literally can't swap, since you can pay gold pieces to swap enchants.
The best all arounder would probably still be Holy, because most mobs die extremely quickly. I don't think there's *that* huge of a difference on whether you burn them 0.5 sec faster with Lightning or burn mobs 0.5 sec later with Holy. And, of course, on bosses, it's very hard to beat a Trans Holy...
I don't see a need for this thread anymore, given that I released my master version of weapon enchant comparisons.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!