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ragequittingdc
Member Posts: 229 Arc User
what current meta do you find leaving you pigeonholed for your class?
for example, since the drop off on orcus price(green is at 5-700k on console) I'm being expected to have the set as a gwf main, is what I'm starting to see now.
I'm coming to this conclusion because I have been kicked in favor of other gwf with one, even if they are lower ilvl and sporting rank 9 wep enchant.
at the same, I've noticed it's acceptable for other "dps classes" to not have it and be seen as an good asset. it's not like I haven't been aiming to get one anyway, and I have been running cn constantly when I'm on...most recently, 3 +5 rings, dragonheart, cantankerous mage, baphomet talisman(lol), no shard still of course, but what if I didn't want it?
for example, since the drop off on orcus price(green is at 5-700k on console) I'm being expected to have the set as a gwf main, is what I'm starting to see now.
I'm coming to this conclusion because I have been kicked in favor of other gwf with one, even if they are lower ilvl and sporting rank 9 wep enchant.
at the same, I've noticed it's acceptable for other "dps classes" to not have it and be seen as an good asset. it's not like I haven't been aiming to get one anyway, and I have been running cn constantly when I'm on...most recently, 3 +5 rings, dragonheart, cantankerous mage, baphomet talisman(lol), no shard still of course, but what if I didn't want it?
im actually the gwf carry
Post edited by ragequittingdc#8599 on
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MMOs typically have toxic community due to players thinking that what they spent on a game should have some type of ROI. I find that absolutely funny as this is a video game and is a entertainment medium. It is a place where I will spend my entertainment $$$ and not where I think I should have some type of ROI on my money spent to play a game that I use my entertainment $$$ or time on.
Just play and have fun is the rule I follow. If players don't like the way I play, well I go run with my guild mates and do unusually groups. 1 tank and 4 healers and beat content just fine without worrying if I am playing my character to match the BiS mentality of the community.
This is especially important if you are running with an OP or DC, who can share a fair amount of power. Power which gets amplified through bonding stones (you get 1x power aura directly + 2.85x for 3 R12 bondings + 0.15x if have orange pet = 4x power aura). If you have worse bondings, you get less. And if you have an augment pet, you don't get that extra 3x the power share at all.
I'd wouldn't be surprised if you got kicked for a lower ilvl dps toon that was sporting a fully decked bonding pet. In a buffed party, a bonding pet can be providing nearly half of your stats. That's especially true if you do it right and work on your companion's enchantments before working on your own. After all, each enchant on a bonding pet gives 3x the stats compared to slotting it in your own gear. Which also leads to downward pressure on ilvl, since it's best to upgrade companion enchants and those don't contribute to your ilvl at all.
It's also worth noting that power sharing is about to get nerfed a little bit with the upcoming cleric changes. But it's hard to sway the opinion of the masses.
(bondings)
I would be supportive of a number of solutions that would address the current imbalance between bonding companions and augments, as well as anything that would shift focus off of making your pet BiS before you are.
But I do think it's important to be aware of what's currently trending for your class's role.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
CW: SS thaum for dps vs. MoF Rene for support
GF: SM conq for tank vs. IV tact for support
DC: DO righteous for buff/debuff vs. AC virt for buff/debuff lol
So yeah maybe not a whole lot of variety, but at least some. Oh and almost all PvP builds are different than PvE builds (maybe except some for DC / OP hybrids that hold their own in either setting).
That said, I gather that you play mostly PvE GWF. And unfortunately, for PvE GWF there really is only one truly best build (SM Destro). Hopefully that will change over time....
Aren't you glad you have a variety of mod11 weapons to choose from? jk don't hate me.
welcome to mmo's in the current year you mean? :^)
I was enjoying your bonding thread before the lock, but on topic to this thread, I don't exactly dislike there being a meta. How it is enforced is an issue I think, but this isn't really that either. genuinely just trying to see what other classes people main go through build wise, specifically for pve.
@krazydog#1509
no complaints here tbh. a set of 12s alone isn't enough to beat me in pg. imagine how much people get triggered to see that in action.
@dupeks
maybe he or she did have a set of bondings higher rank than mine, but you can't inspect companions that aren't even summoned between instances...somi fishing waiting for dc/tank before q leader set it into action. you can inspect players between instances though. of course bondings are plenty part of the meta, can't disagree with that, but that's more so something each class will go through, not class specific. you should share the case for your own main class instead of trying to make a case about bondings. unless your class doesn't have one? you could also ask me for context instead of thinking up some in your head, lol. I'm not that new, just a little.
my main used to be tr mi for a while. when I first started playing it was extremely hard not to get kicked in a pug freshly popping into 2k, and I honestly don't think any class gets more hate than tr. It also really just makes me laugh at different excuses people come up with on why (x) can't do (y) unless they have (z).
right around september I was getting the boot left and right with people saying, "nah you need gwf for orcus", when I managed to get a sneak in already at the fire, because nobody would even think about taking me through the door way. I've grouped with some amazing melter tr too, but I have yet to see any requests for one in somi. as a matter of fact, a mi was in the group I was kicked from in the OP, higher ilvl than me too.
copy&pasted
@ravenskya
my main used to be tr mi for a while. when I first started playing it was extremely hard not to get kicked in a pug freshly popping into 2k, and I honestly don't think any class gets more hate than tr. It also really just makes me laugh at different excuses people come up with on why (x) can't do (y) unless they have (z).
right around september I was getting the boot left and right with people saying, "nah you need gwf for orcus", when I managed to get a sneak in already at the fire, because nobody would even think about taking me through the door way. I've grouped with some amazing melter tr too, but I have yet to see any requests for one in somi. as a matter of fact, a mi was in the group I was kicked from in the OP, higher ilvl than me too.
BUT ppl are egoistic and greedy. Thats why they want the highest possible reward for the time spent playing. Thats why you can read idiotic posts in LFG, like 'lf3m 4k+ by 3k players' or or get idiotic pms like 'no TRs, by a TR' or why I had the tell ppl to stop complaining about the fact, that I unlocked MSVH on my main and not on my DC, bc it is inconvenient for them to run with my 4.3k CW and search for a decent AA DC.
I'll confirm online later, but I think you might be able to inspect companions if you search for players (a silly amount of effort, but who knows).To be clear, I'm not trying to defend the elitism in this game. Like you point out, it's also very possible there was another reason (like your lack of orcus set, or maybe he had a friend who logged on). Plenty of rude / uncooperative behavior in this game, sadly, and not many great ways to address that systemically.
I see a lot of grief among some of our guildies who are newer to the game related to bondings so I butted in with my 2 cents. In my defense, I phrased the first line as a question XD Hope I didn't ruffle your feathers too hard, hee hee.
I didn't really understand the second part of your comment. I have 6 active toons, 5 of them are fully bonded and the last one is exclusively PVP so it's not worth the investment. Most of them also have augments sitting idle from when the meta was to have colorful little dots orbiting your head. In my experience, folks can be pretty mean about all sorts of classes (dps definitely faces it, but so do tanks and clerics). That's a large part of the reason I mostly run with guild / alliance and the occasional channel.
I only pug / q when I can more or less carry (which is a luxury not shared by many newer players). And once in a while I see a situation like you describe and it leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. (I'm high enough ilvl that I seldom get kicked, but it bugs if someone else does... I usually leave in those cases).
Edit: I was mistaken, you can insp folks through the player lookup, but not companions.
So who's going to pull off the Macbeth-style prophecy twist? When will trees attack? And who's going to say "you shall not pass (the balance changes)!"?
(I should not post when I'm bored out of my head...)To answer the OP, the Orcus set situation is "idiotic elitism". Or, as a translation, "I'm lazy and don't want to teach you, have a big wallet so you can carry me!". Or, additionally, misinformation.
A good alliance that promotes good player behaviour is the only way to avoid it most of the time.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
I was on my healadin, my friend on his tank - I was like "how hard can it be to pug for DPS?" So we decided to try it. We got a 2300 Warlock, a 2300 CW and a 2200 GWF. My tank friends says "this doesn't look good" I tell him - "Let's make the call after the first boss, if it takes them 20 minutes to kill it then we dip out."
We didn't make it to the first boss.
The first group wiped them and me and my friend finished off the first three demons. He sighs and says "you still want to give them to the first boss?" I say "Yup" then the vote to kick pops up - either the Warlock or the CW is trying to kick the GWF - reason: IL too low - he and I bust out laughing and I post "Are you serious? You were ALL dead and you want to start kicking people?" So my friend and I left them to their kick party and abandoned instance.
I rarely kick anyone - but I'll dip out in a heartbeat if the kick button pops up on a player who isn't AFK.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
That bonding thread were my views about those Runestones. Many of the players questioning my motivates probably don't realize I took a 4-5 month break form playing and only played my two original characters in two months and got both to IL 2600+ without much trouble. I stopped playing for personal reasons. I would probably have R12 bonding now on both characters and be IL 3.5K plus. Also, I have no reinforcement on my character but do have the AD to buy them if I wanted. I would be 3K on my main and close to 3K on my GF and CW. When I came back with me actually playing content, I had about 3-4 days to collect refinement items for double refinement, not really all that much time to really collect what I needed to increase my IL. But enough of that.
The thing for me with meta builds is it pigeonhole players to use that if they want to play end game due to the MMO community wanting max damage, max buffing, max whatever builds. It sickening to see how narrowly focused players become.
In another MMO everyone told me my build was trash. The funny thing is as time went on, the build I used became the go to build. I simply showed up in some end game run in that other MMO and proved how good my build was. That game has so much imbalance the company is basically doing a 100% revamp of combat and reducing everyone's damage output by 66%.
Imagine that happening here? What I see here on NW is similar to that game. Everyone damage gets buffed closer to the higher damaging class. Instead, the devs should review the higher damaging classes and adjust them so that they are closer to the lower damaging class. This way content doesn't become easy and meta builds are less likely as damage is reduced, players tend to get more options on how to build their character vs when damage is increase, meta builds start to happen.
I personally wish the devs would add a tool in game for players to check their damage out potential during content. A tool like that would allow players to test builds and artifact sets to see which works best for each players. For instance, you may want to have both the Lostmauth and the Orcus the set and use them based on the content you are running.
When building a team, if there aren't guildies/allies/friends to run with, those who look more powerful "on paper" will the ones picked up, even if they end up being weaker than the ones they were chosen over from. When I'm on my GF and am going to run FBI, that's what I do, sure, there are lots of high leve players with bad builds but that's not always the case, if 2 3,5k GWF's from GH20 guilds pm to inv them, why should I pick the one with the lostmauth and twisted set over the one with orcus and relic weps set if I know the latter most likely will be more useful for boss fights?
I could understand your complaint if you had made this thread a long time ago when the orcus set was very expensive but now? Sorry, it is getting cheaper and cheaper so support classes will be a lot more likely to pick up those who got it over the ones who for one reason or another haven't made the switch.
Yes you have tried to get the orcus set and rngesus hasn't been nice to you (I got mine without even trying) but! Sure, if you don't want to get it don't as that's up to you, however, it will also mean people (I know I would be one of those) will chose dps classes that have it over those of comparable or lower "level" (on paper) simply because, provided that the player knows his/her class, bosses will be killed in less time so faster FBI runs (taking 4-20 mins less to get a peridot in both coffers is awesome, isn't it?). Whatever you choose to do with your toon is entirely up to you but if doing so means you'll hurt the team's perfomance (like making them taking longer to kill FBI bosses) then get ready to see how people building teams will pick other toons over yours over and over again (it sounds like it's happening already).
With how many times you have run cn (you made it sound like a lot) you should have enough ad to just buy the shard, that's what I did with demo's girdle of might, as soon as the shard dropped for me when randomly running cn I bought the other item witohut even thinking twice and I think it was a good choice.
all I really am meaning there is that you should share what you have been through in relation to the op(original post) question. no worries though, it might have came across as a bit whiny.
@mebengalsfan#9264
I mean I am familiar with meta builds, I just see how they are approached in nw strangely. the mmo I used to play was eqoa and original pc eq to an lesser extent, and meta builds weren't limited to one play style or rather, each build was utilized and had its own meta. getting one of those bis meta players to group or raid/dungeon with you was lucky on you and whoever was with you's behalf, not the only way to play.
in the case of nw I see talk of all classes having only 1 really useful build, 2 possibly, but I wonder if they really are the only ways to do it, or if the meta has taken over to the point that nobody is even willing to try and find out in various situations if there are different ways to do things. so I made this thread. I love playing dps and hybrid tank classes, specifically rogue, monk, necromancer and shadowknight(sadly there are no monks/necros/sk here in nw), and one of the most fun things for me was trying out every build.
gwf is basically my sk stand in here and would be even more so if the paragon paths besides destro had optimal feats. the higher I climb that ilvl ladder, the more and more I'm expected to follow in the footsteps of a 1a type build, and so, because I want to keep doing the higher end content, I do what must be done. atleast I still enjoy it either way, but I do hope more variety is in the next class balancing.
sure I can see how you would go and instantly invite the 4k players who pm you. who wouldn't if there are empty spots? the problem is when you've been sitting for nearly half an hour for that random or not dc or tank to show up and then decide to replace somebody who could of been on solo q for a different dungeon. you waste my time and you dont need any 4k players at all to complete fbi/sva.
in the case of sva, you only have 20 mins to complete it anyway, how much faster do you really need it to go? a burner cn group takes about 15 mins, why should t3 content go faster than that lol. play how you like of course though; and I did, right after my post, decide to just buy the set instead. I already wanted it anyway so it just motivated me to stop waiting for a drop.
Also you shouldn't have to pug on consoles. There are plenty of alliances that have hundreds if not thousands of players that will run with you regardless of stats. My alliance boasts over 2500 members and I haven't used LFG in several months. Joining a group is as simple as saying "me" in alliance chat and you get an invite no questions asked.
As you suggest people latch on to what's visible (gear) or what's frustrating (I keep dying waah, cleric l2p, pick me up and heal me). My main is a cleric, my favorite alts are a MoF CW buff/debuff and prot-OP tank with a focus on power sharing. So in one word: support.
I've been yelled at for not knowing how to play all of those classes, most commonly by an impatient dps who runs ahead and bites off more than they can chew. My favorite encounters:
- DPS that outruns the tank and draws archer aggro, dies repeatedly, and initiates a votekick on the tank. Let the tank aggro, and remember that tanks can't sprint... I try to offset this at least a bit by slotting shepherd's devotion and artificer's persuasion. But if you insist on running ahead at some point I'll just stop trying to pick up aggro after you and let you die even more frequently. If you manage to stay alive while running ahead then I'll just think you're silly but I don't mind.
- DPS who expect the tank or the DC to pick up fallen party members. Picking up fallen sillyhats is squarely a fellow DPS's responsibility. They can stop hitting the boss for a moment, but if DC stops healing or the tank stops blocking it won't end well.
- Anyone who doesn't respect boss mechanics and then blames support when the run doesn't go well. Yeah we can cheese through stuff, but you can't be completely stupid about it. Goristro in ndemo/edmo can be burned down, and if you're doing that target them at the blue wall or the yellow gates. Don't launch him off to space. Orcus in CN is dangerous when he's praying. Unless you're melting him like cheese, back up a bit to give the green balls some room to spawn so they don't visually glitch and wipe the team suddenly. SVA, move the silly AoEs away from the party. We'll survive the 2seconds your sword isn't slicing into the Jarl, but our tank might not survive when he's hit with 5x the AoE via KV or bubble. Oh, or someone who murders the red doggy from afar in eGWD.
At this point, most of my complains stem from folks not understanding what's actually going on / what roles everyone should be playing. I also remember that it's a lot rougher if you don't have the ilvl I do (humblebrag much?), especially for the glorified epeen contest that is dps.It's rough pugging it, but there isn't a lot that we could do from a systems standpoint. I think the only real solution is community (alliance, channels, etc.) to help share knowledge. But even that can only go so far.
GWF has one build and specific gear to get, in fact this applies to anyone who is running a DPS class that is basically not a CW and I even seen some CWs running around with the Orcus set.
To each their own. Find what you like and run that and if others kick you, well find out why.
I ran with a GWF running Lostmauth and a GWF using the Orcus and you know what, both had relic weapons and both were 3800 IL with R12 bonding on Fire Archon. Guess who was top DPS in CN. Yeah it was the player running the Lostmauth set. Just because it states BiS does not always mean it is always the best set to run with.
CWs wearing the Orcus set are indicative of one thing: heard it was now the best DPS set, ergo it must be the best DPS set for every class, because that's totally how things work (ie. didn't do the research). I suppose it might have some application over long boss fights, but I'd defer to the judgement of others on that. I suspect you wouldn't gain enough from it in specific situations for it to be worth the sacrifice in other areas, unless you are made of resources and switch gear situationally.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I'm sure that sometime, somewhere, a Bambi escaped a chhetah, but you don't see nature magazine declare deer as the fastest animal....
1. An exception, is not a rule.
2. Variables: Insignia, Pets, stat distribution, spec, who ran first, who lagged.
3. I can gear my GWF from nothing to everything, vary fast. And yet, most GWF players with beat me in dps. Does it mean my orcus / lostmauth / soec at fault ? I would guess... it's probably not...