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dragonsbane3
Member Posts: 190 Arc User
in The Temple
Hello all, So I just made a new DC to tinker around on as a side project. I was looking for a max/pure dps build for a DC but can't seem to find what I'm looking for. Could someone point me in the right direction please.
"The Sweet Ain't As Sweet Without The Sour!"
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However IMO ths biggest difference between Righteous debuffer and DPS is going to be in pets, making sure you have enough RI and rotation.
You might want to consider waiting for the DC changes to hit live (where they get a glorious glorious 30% damage boost for most powers in addition to other goodies). The DC community might find some interesting stuff for DPS.
Now that she's over 3k ilvl, she steamrolls that content.
Bearing in mind this is a heal/shield/buff build, not a DPS build.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
While the DC might go through this "want to DPS" time period, fortunately (?), it won't last as long as the GFs.
The DC simply doesn't have enough weapon damage or good passives (awful level base, meh ability coefficients, only a few feats which give meaningful damage bonuses) to even compete with toptier DPSers of similar gear level. Eventually, people will wisen up and realize that unlike the GF, the DC doesn't quite have the tools to compete with the toptier DPSers.
(Well, I would hope the latter would happen...)
A DO can lessen it's focus on power (since they only have WoL) allowing for a greater focus on crit/recovery, feat into essentially all the damage increasing feats (since they dont have to go into the virtuous tree at all). Companions choices are relatively similar, but they could also choose the dps oriented active bonuses. They also can benefit from the lance of faith buff (blended in with BotS) whereas a ACDC are forced into using BoB.
All in all, there damage will be significantly higher than it is, and a DO DC be more viable as the sole DC in a group (though I still think AC will be better), and will be preferred as the 2nd cleric in a 2 dc group (thanks to TI + PoD kinda + more damage). I'm really excited for these changes personally.
I do agree a full DPS DC (ie...slotting DL over BTS) is a disservice to their respective group, but I just think taking on "more" of a DPS build wont hurt/may benefit the DO DC buff build.
What I am MORE interested/worried about is the change to AP gain (specifically; no more ap gain from chains). I've been all excited about the potential of double dailies, and am wondering if I'll actually be able to do it (efficiently). At least with a DO, the AP gain isnt as important (TI is a personal; HG is their main buff). Any ability for them to "double daily" will be presumably to just throw in a FS or a DA (if needed). But an AC will struggle to spam AA + slip in an HG.
Even if you forget the premise of double dailies, do you think an ACDC will be able to spam AA like we can currently? If not, then perhaps this further balances the buffs provided by AC and DO?
Imo, the real comparison between AC and DO is, AA vs. Terrifying.
TI is a stable 20% damage bonus that is easy to manage: just paint enemies with TI and let your teammates do the rest.
AA's damage bonus can vary wildly, depending on your DC's base power, as well as the team's Bondings. In addition, if your team is getting hit by many DoT effects (ex: Kabal in Spellplague, manticore DoT in SKT instances, etc.), AA's power buff is going to disappear quickly. I don't think the new AA will outstrip TI for most DCs, unless your team has high quality Bondings and your DC is stacking a large amount of power.
I wouldn't say AC is better in all/every situation, as each have their pros and cons.
I personally think DO is better for newer DCs (daily is fire and forget, TI is paint and forget, buffs don't depend on gear), whereas AC is better for more experienced/dedicated DCs (DCs who have large amounts of power and know when their AA's powershare will make a difference). However, as stated, teams will be at their strongest if you mix the two DC types, which is pretty good for balance imo.
As I alluded to in my edit, I think the actual comparison will be AA+HG vs TI+HG; not just in what they "can" do (AC wins) but how often they are affected by these skills (because of ap gain / short range of AA) and/or the power received from AA (dc's base power / bonding stones of recipient / whether you hit person + companion or missed 1, etc).
I'd argue your stance on recovery. I think it will be more important then ever (specifically for DO's). I agree you'll be able to have another HG ready to go before the old one expires, but I would think you want it even quicker then that due to your group moving through the dungeon. I don't think you'll get it down to "perma" due to that base 45 secs, but having it ready as often as possible will (to me), make recovery more important.
In terms of buffing your team, I think it will be closer than many think making both popular (good!!!), but at the end of the day, my guess is that, like you said, an experienced DC with an experienced team <- the AC will win out.
Artificers will play a large part in that for sure but it's uptime is also not permanent unless you're animation cancelling or "missing" with your artifact. Both of those methods (to me anyway) are a massive pita / unenjoyable. I'd rather spec toward not needing that as much as possible which I believe can be done effectively (I do still pull it out of my bag of tricks for our speed run attempts though)
DO got the edge now, but it will take us time to find all the bugs so maybe AC will suprise
only changes i saw is waht wrtien in the post, off hand class feture are still bad etc.
AA last less then 2 sec now, even agianst single little spider. its weak and chance to get the buff buck from ur companion is low
It's a party only buff, ala ITF. Which means that in raids, there will be giant epeen fights from DPSers over who gets the DO in their team.
As for the AC, I think AA may have been nerfed a bit too much. It was way overpowered, but making it too weak may not be the right approach.
Not me.
AC-Virtuous
eCC run 5men: youtube.com/watch?v=O-FVngchuVQ&t=4s
DO-Virtuous(?)
CN run 3men: youtube.com/watch?v=Qd9aZkzldo0
eTOS run 3men: youtube.com/watch?v=lbRvc0rfIWM
I test and myself the new changes i rly dont know...i think with my experience in DC class all this year the best way is DO-Righteous....to much buff to much damage and power sharing...
Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
Ran solo and group content on both my RiDO and my RiAC.
Also, to get the teammate perspective, ran my GF with Kali Gold's RiDO through eCC, CN, eToS and FBI on preview yesterday.
Props to Kali Gold, BTW. That guy is hilarious. Check out his YouTube and twitch.
After about 6 hours of preview exposure to the AA nerf, HG cool down change and Terrifying Insight buff I reached these conclusions IMHO:
1) The RiDO is back.
Terrifying Insight will be a must-have party buff comparable to Into the Fray. Mobs absolutely melt with TI stacks on preview.
2) dSunburst and dDGlow are the most efficient encounters for the new RiDO...
EDIT: "After they fix the missing damage application of Terrifying Insight".
They paint TI and Foresight in an AoE, sunburst with a DoT which stacks TI.
3)Terrifying Insight AC+DO+GF(KV, ITF)+DPSx2 will be the new meta.
AC on preview is able to run AA and HG simultaneously. Couple that with the DO's Foresight feated with Benefit of foresight and GF's Knight's Valor and you have true one-shot mitigation.
Even the reduced AA power-sharing is replaced by the combined devastation of the new TI plus Into the Fray.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Literally, the DO just needs to slot in TI. Damage bonus given. The DO could literally just do nothing and follow the team around, yet the team still benefits from TI. If the DO drops dead, then TI disappears.
"Preview TI is a party buff, you don't need to paint enemies with it (although I wish it was a "paint" damage bonus ala Combat Superiority)."
Sorry... should have prefaced my comment with the statement "After they fix the missing damage application of TI".
As was discussed on Kali's stream and in the preview section there is no way in hell that TI can remain a truly "passive" passive when it hits productive.
The original TI was indeed "painted" and as Kali noted, if they don't apply that then RiDO will be a mindless no-talent Buff Bot.
Considering theselling changes were spurred by complaints of AA talent-free cheese, I doubt they will let the current easy-mode reach production.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
I was originally a DO for most of my leveling and than when I hit 70 I took my time and read plenty up on the AC and DO paths along with what would work for me as a player. I ended up going AC and enjoy it a lot. If this revamps results in another broken mechanic for DC encouraging us to play a specific path over the other one, than the Devs really should fix it now before it hits live.
- DO will offer stronger direct damage buffs and debuffs, but less healing and power buff. Damage buffs are multiplicative (good) so they don't have diminishing returns (bad) like power and don't have a cap (sad) like debuffs.
- AC will offer weaker direct damage buffs and fewer debuffs, but will instead provide a power buff. Power buffs have diminishing returns (bad) with respect to damage contribution (those with higher power to begin with will benefit less than those with lower power). However, power buffs benefit healing, a wide variety of insignia bonuses (both dmg and utility, neither of which should be overlooked), and also now weapon enchantment scaling.
So when you get down to it, are you better served by multiplicative dmg bonuses or the power buff with its related synergies? In my opinion, it depends on your preferred play style and your gear.AC power sharing is significantly gear-dependent, since you need to stack "base" power. This limits your gear selection, favoring static +power stuff and ruling out underdark rings and twisted weps, and also influences your boon selections.
DO allows for a broader variety of gear, because you're no longer going to be so focused on stacking "base" power. It's also generally less gear-dependent (TI don't care about your ilvl), so may be a better option for those with a more limited budget.
The best part is that AC and DO will continue to work very well together with not a lot of overlap.
Edit: If you're not familiar with the concept of "base" power you can check out http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1227832/reference-power-sharing
"Wondering about TI changes for group buffing. Does a DC DO that has IT slotted on test is now better for the group buffing than say a AC with BoB and AA, or do you feel both are going to be equally viable for group buffing? "
On preview RiDO buff far far exceeds AC due to reduced power sharing.
" If this revamps results in another broken mechanic for DC encouraging us to play a specific path over the other one, than the Devs really should fix it now before it hits live. "
Watch Kali Gold's preview video on this (keep the volume down because he gets a bit heated on the topic).
Kali thinks the pendulum will swing to the DO. It will if they do not place the damage-to-process requirement for TI.
Truly passive 30+% damage buff is unacceptable.
IMO, it will not remain this was on live.
If so, AC and DO will both be viable options as @dupeks answered and I agree.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
I like what they did with the GF after they fixed Command Strike as my old build works just as good today as it did prior to the fix. I'm hoping to see something similar with the DC.
The AC build...as this played now with the changes is absolutely useless in pve!
Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
Sure it might turn out that DO damage buff is superior, especially for low-to-mid geared DCs, but I don't think it's going to completely blow up high geared AC builds entirely.
In a high-end team, folks are not getting hit left and right because mobs are mostly dying before they get more than a hit in. In addition, power share benefits healing (ok not super relevant) but also many insignia bonuses (arti's, shep's, magi's) and now weapon enchant scaling. It's also not limited to party, which can be a pain in larger group content.
So yeah DO is finally relevant again. That's not exactly a bad thing. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that AC build is absolutely useless, it might just not be the best at direct damage buffs anymore. It also further separates the builds so that running with 2 DC is even more sensible than before (we could debate whether that's good for the game or not).
"Wondering about TI changes for group buffing. Does a DC DO that has IT slotted on test is now better for the group buffing than say a AC with BoB and AA, or do you feel both are going to be equally viable for group buffing?"
Yes. Current preview DO greatly surpasses AC in damage buff.
See my earlier comments about viability.
Edit:
AC is NOT useless. AA still gives good mitigation and both AA and BoB give modest power. Also AC can run AA and HG simultaneously/in overlap due to the cooldown nerf which is a big advantage.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Since the new AA will disappears within the blink of an eye (and requires significant gear investment to get the most of), this renders the one defining feature of AC somewhat... underwhelming.
DO is simply easier to use and much more versatile.