That's great. I really don't know why people are spreading false rumors.
I read in the other thread that Vanguard's Banner was already fixed on PC, actually some time ago so I'd guess with Mod 11, but I haven't seen anything in patch notes. Can you confirm that? I'm really looking for the fix on PS4.
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
That's great. I really don't know why people are spreading false rumors.
I read in the other thread that Vanguard's Banner was already fixed on PC, actually some time ago so I'd guess with Mod 11, but I haven't seen anything in patch notes. Can you confirm that? I'm really looking for the fix on PS4.
If you read earlier comments on this thread, you'll know. The banner apparently works properly on dummies but not enemies.
That's great. I really don't know why people are spreading false rumors.
I read in the other thread that Vanguard's Banner was already fixed on PC, actually some time ago so I'd guess with Mod 11, but I haven't seen anything in patch notes. Can you confirm that? I'm really looking for the fix on PS4.
If you read earlier comments on this thread, you'll know. The banner apparently works properly on dummies but not enemies.
frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
Yea, they're probably mis-informed. Else @michela123 would have updated us by now. And, in my opinion, you wouldn't want to use it in harder/slower dungeons/trials cause you'd most certainly be at debuff cap already.
I'm using the banner now on my OP even though it's not fixed yet, and it has the most perfect stats for OP. Normally Wheel on trash, but on bosses it's hard to use it for a tank, but banner has very short casting time and it also gives buff to power and life steal for 30s, so at least there's that. And even small power buff is great when there's a lot of people. Other artifacts I have are useless to use as active.
I know that some uncapped debuffs stack with themselves (Con Artist stacks with another Con Artist, for example) and some don't (Transcendent Plaguefire doesn't stack with another Trans Plaguefire). Does 2 or more Heart of the Black Dragon stack?
Another question: i see Frigid Winds listed on the debuff list as 10% capped debuff, but i don't see any new debuff icon/portrait under my enemy's HP bar when i apply Frozen. Is it really working?
@nameexpired Actually, they pay me 4000 imaginary euro per month. @vincentr6669 Hearts of the Black Dragon stack only if they have different ranks. I've just checked again Frigid Winds: it has no icon, but it works correctly.
@vincentr6669 Hearts of the Black Dragon stack only if they have different ranks. I've just checked again Frigid Winds: it has no icon, but it works correctly.
When they reworked the enchantments, they also bugged their stacking behaviour. I’d appreciate if you help me reporting them, since these bugs have been there for several months. Plague Fire: If two players attack the same target using PF of different ranks (for example a Trans and a Pure) the debuff is canceled. If instead they use two PF of the same rank, the debuff doesn’t stack, as it’s supposed to do. Before the rework, different ranks of PF stacked. Frost: If two players attack the same target with two Frosts (same or different ranks), they don’t stack for 20 seconds, then they start stacking.
With the next patch on PC, the Heart of the Black Dragon artifact will become a legit 15% debuff. It’s uncapped and 75% effective vs lvl 73 mobs, so it’s 11,25% in dungeons like FBI. It’s also worth noting that it stacks at different ranks.
Yeah, none of them is very good. I think I’d use Frost, PF or Dread, but a lot of people use them now, so you’d have stacking issues. Frost is good when you kill a boss in 10 seconds, since you apply the debuff with the first hit. Plague Fire is also ok, I use it on my DC because it procs the feat Bear your Sins. Dread could be good for a buff/dps, for example a Divine Oracle with high crit chance (it also procs Bear your Sins). I forgot to mention that also Terror has something weird. If for example a player uses Greater (5% debuff) and the other Trans (6% debuff), the first who hits the target apply the debuff and the other can’t overwrite it until it expires, so if the player with Greater attacks first the debuff is only 5%. This said, the strange thing is that the two enchantments occasionally stack, probably when the two players apply the debuff at the same time.
When they reworked the enchantments, they also bugged their stacking behaviour. I’d appreciate if you help me reporting them, since these bugs have been there for several months. Plague Fire: If two players attack the same target using PF of different ranks (for example a Trans and a Pure) the debuff is canceled. If instead they use two PF of the same rank, the debuff doesn’t stack, as it’s supposed to do. Before the rework, different ranks of PF stacked. Frost: If two players attack the same target with two Frosts (same or different ranks), they don’t stack for 20 seconds, then they start stacking.
With the next patch on PC, the Heart of the Black Dragon artifact will become a legit 15% debuff. It’s uncapped and 75% effective vs lvl 73 mobs, so it’s 11,25% in dungeons like FBI. It’s also worth noting that it stacks at different ranks.
@michela123 tyvm for the info, it is all very interesting especially frost and the Black Dragon artifact. Do you see the Black Dragon objectively being BiS for say, a tac GF? That's my tank's current build so I'm very interested about it after reading your post.
@michela123 Ok so this post was Exactly what I was searching. We have now a stable good group for running end-game content and we are now improving and trying to optimize our group so this is so helpful thank you.
It may ve obvious to you guys but I still have a question. As a SW HB I obviously use PoP. My question is even if the 10% DR debuff from PoP is capped at 200% do multiple PoP stack in terms of debuffing aspect?
Like for example 2 SW HB in a group and both use PoP - does the effectiveness raise only from 1 PoP on the same enemy?
This question extends also to Infernal Wrath and Dreadtheft. Do they stack until they reach the cap or is it just better if one of the SWs uses these?
@jaime4312#3760 I’d say the Black Dragon could be BiS, but I’m waiting for the Tome of Ascendance to be fixed (currently the red circle is overperforming and the purple circle is not applying the debuff). I can’t say which one will be better after the fix. Also consider that Black Dragon debuff only lasts 6 seconds.
@daccura#4102 Don't worry, it's not an obvious question The debuff of Pillar of Power stacks, the buff doesn’t. The buff is 24% for yourself and 18% for allies (if feated) or 12% (if not feated). If both SWs use it, they are both buffed by 24%, otherwise the SW who doesn't use it is buffed by 12/18%. Dreadtheft doesn’t stack. Infernal Wrath stacks. It reduces enemy’s damage by 3% in PVE, but it doesn’t work in PVP.
@michela123 Ok ty. Another question would be if our DC uses Divine Glow and he has not reached the RI cap of 60% but is fighting against a mob with 60% DR what happens exactly to the debuff? Does it mean it's effectiveness is lowered for our DC but allies get the full benefit or does it mean it's effectiveness is lowered for our DC AND our allies?
Oh and btw. why would Infernal Wrath reduce the dmg? It is supposed to reduce the DR or not? Also why it is only 3% because the tooltip says 5% - bugged?
If you're fighting enemy that has higher DR than your RI, DR debuffs act like RI to the point you reach 100% effectiveness (your RI = enemy DR) and then normally stack up to 200%. E.g. if you have 40% RI and enemy 60% RI and the sum of DR debuffs is 80% you reach 160% effectiveness while allies that are capped with RI reach 180%. If the sum would be 120% all you and allies would have 200% since that's the cap.
Yes exactly. Anyway your RI never increases the benefit of debuffs for other allies. The tooltip for Infernal Wrath says that it reduces the Power of the attacker by 5%, meaning that the enemy deals less damage. Tooltips in this game are not very trustworthy anyway.
@trzebiat#2067 Thank you for the good explanation. Now I understand.
@michela123 I just checked the tooltips and was confused because it states something different. Then I realized: There is this racial bonus "Infernal Wrath" and also the SW Fury feat "Infernal Wrath". I'm sorry I should have mentioned that I was referring to the SW fury feat and not the racial bonus .
So bear with me for the last question: Does the DR debuff from SW fury feat "Infernal Wrath" (-5% DR on cursed targets) stack with other Warlocks who are also using this feat?
Tiefling - Infernal Wrath. How long the damage debuff lasts and can it stack with itself or can stack only if it's applied by multiple players with Tiefling race?
Drow - Dark Fire. What can and can't proc it? Asking specifically from OP point of view - AoC, Lightning, PF, BG/HW, or only from at-will/encounter/daily attacks? How about Smite DoT? It can stack with itself, right?
Infernal Wrath lasts 5 seconds (the tooltip is correct) and a single player can stack it, but it doesn't happen often since mobs attack slowly. Smite dots stack. I tested Darkfire last year and it didn’t proc with Burning Guidance, Aura of Courage and Plague Fire; however I’ll give you a detailed answer when I have time to test everything, probably in a few days.
@trzebiat#2067 Here are some results. Smite dots proc darkfire, Burning Light can proc darkfire on each hit, Lightning arcs proc darkfire. I’m not sure how to test aoc and pf, so I just hit a dummy with Valorous Strike using different setups and I compared the uptimes:
With Plaguefire + AoC total valorous strike hits: 4269 valorous strike hits with darkfire: 1210 (28,3%)
With Lightning + AoC total valorous strike hits: 4247 valorous strike hits with darkfire: 1007 (23,7%)
Without any enchantment or aura: total valorous strike hits: 4401 valorous strike hits with darkfire: 1130 (25,7%)
This was not a rigorous test, but it should be enough to show that the uptime of the debuff doesn't change much, at least on single target. I'm sure that Lightning procs darkfire because the dummies hit by its arcs were debuffed, but the overall uptime with Lightning wasn't higher. Also note that in 12000 hits darkfire never stacked. It’s possible to stack it with certain skills, but I’m not sure if an OP can do it. I’ll probably test burning guidance and hw next week, if I find an easy way to check them.
Thanks for doing the tests. Considering this was only for single target and the difference is not big, but for trash Lightning should be the best with arcs able to proc Darkfire. Maybe in trash fights using Burning Light with Lightning could allow it to stack sometimes? But if BG/HW can also proc Darkfire, Drow race could be extremely viable for Healadin, running Lightning and Burning Light for trash, Smite for single target (if Bane debuff is not needed). I wonder (but doubt it) if additional hits and dots from companions or insignias bonuses can proc Darkfire too. Things like Owlbear Cub, Lightfoot Thief, Death Slaad, Magistrate's Patience.
Shield Slam: Slams a single foe and reduce their defenses. has an 8s cooldown.
Shield Slam attack by a summoned Dancing Shield is a non-stackable 20% uncapped DR debuff.
Jagged Dancing Blade doesn't have a similar attack. Instead it has an active bonus:
Active Bonus: Affects Companion 5% chance to reduce target's Defense.
It's written confusingly, but that debuff only increases the damage of companion's attacks, not the owners / allies. So yeah it's a debuff but it's only applying to companion attacks which are a pretty insignificant source of damage. That's why the Jagged Dancing Blade is not a recommended debuff companion.
Comments
I read in the other thread that Vanguard's Banner was already fixed on PC, actually some time ago so I'd guess with Mod 11, but I haven't seen anything in patch notes. Can you confirm that? I'm really looking for the fix on PS4.
Thank you for your investigative work. I am certain Cryptic is not paying you enough.
Another question: i see Frigid Winds listed on the debuff list as 10% capped debuff, but i don't see any new debuff icon/portrait under my enemy's HP bar when i apply Frozen. Is it really working?
@vincentr6669 Hearts of the Black Dragon stack only if they have different ranks. I've just checked again Frigid Winds: it has no icon, but it works correctly.
When they reworked the enchantments, they also bugged their stacking behaviour. I’d appreciate if you help me reporting them, since these bugs have been there for several months.
Plague Fire: If two players attack the same target using PF of different ranks (for example a Trans and a Pure) the debuff is canceled. If instead they use two PF of the same rank, the debuff doesn’t stack, as it’s supposed to do. Before the rework, different ranks of PF stacked.
Frost: If two players attack the same target with two Frosts (same or different ranks), they don’t stack for 20 seconds, then they start stacking.
With the next patch on PC, the Heart of the Black Dragon artifact will become a legit 15% debuff. It’s uncapped and 75% effective vs lvl 73 mobs, so it’s 11,25% in dungeons like FBI. It’s also worth noting that it stacks at different ranks.
I forgot to mention that also Terror has something weird. If for example a player uses Greater (5% debuff) and the other Trans (6% debuff), the first who hits the target apply the debuff and the other can’t overwrite it until it expires, so if the player with Greater attacks first the debuff is only 5%. This said, the strange thing is that the two enchantments occasionally stack, probably when the two players apply the debuff at the same time.
Ok so this post was Exactly what I was searching. We have now a stable good group for running end-game content and we are now improving and trying to optimize our group so this is so helpful thank you.
It may ve obvious to you guys but I still have a question. As a SW HB I obviously use PoP. My question is even if the 10% DR debuff from PoP is capped at 200% do multiple PoP stack in terms of debuffing aspect?
Like for example 2 SW HB in a group and both use PoP - does the effectiveness raise only from 1 PoP on the same enemy?
This question extends also to Infernal Wrath and Dreadtheft. Do they stack until they reach the cap or is it just better if one of the SWs uses these?
@daccura#4102 Don't worry, it's not an obvious question
The debuff of Pillar of Power stacks, the buff doesn’t. The buff is 24% for yourself and 18% for allies (if feated) or 12% (if not feated). If both SWs use it, they are both buffed by 24%, otherwise the SW who doesn't use it is buffed by 12/18%.
Dreadtheft doesn’t stack.
Infernal Wrath stacks. It reduces enemy’s damage by 3% in PVE, but it doesn’t work in PVP.
Ok ty. Another question would be if our DC uses Divine Glow and he has not reached the RI cap of 60% but is fighting against a mob with 60% DR what happens exactly to the debuff?
Does it mean it's effectiveness is lowered for our DC but allies get the full benefit or does it mean it's effectiveness is lowered for our DC AND our allies?
Oh and btw. why would Infernal Wrath reduce the dmg? It is supposed to reduce the DR or not? Also why it is only 3% because the tooltip says 5% - bugged?
The tooltip for Infernal Wrath says that it reduces the Power of the attacker by 5%, meaning that the enemy deals less damage. Tooltips in this game are not very trustworthy anyway.
Thank you for the good explanation. Now I understand.
@michela123
I just checked the tooltips and was confused because it states something different. Then I realized: There is this racial bonus "Infernal Wrath" and also the SW Fury feat "Infernal Wrath".
I'm sorry I should have mentioned that I was referring to the SW fury feat and not the racial bonus
So bear with me for the last question: Does the DR debuff from SW fury feat "Infernal Wrath" (-5% DR on cursed targets) stack with other Warlocks who are also using this feat?
Thank you.
Tiefling - Infernal Wrath. How long the damage debuff lasts and can it stack with itself or can stack only if it's applied by multiple players with Tiefling race?
Drow - Dark Fire. What can and can't proc it? Asking specifically from OP point of view - AoC, Lightning, PF, BG/HW, or only from at-will/encounter/daily attacks? How about Smite DoT? It can stack with itself, right?
I tested Darkfire last year and it didn’t proc with Burning Guidance, Aura of Courage and Plague Fire; however I’ll give you a detailed answer when I have time to test everything, probably in a few days.
With Plaguefire + AoC
total valorous strike hits: 4269
valorous strike hits with darkfire: 1210 (28,3%)
With Lightning + AoC
total valorous strike hits: 4247
valorous strike hits with darkfire: 1007 (23,7%)
Without any enchantment or aura:
total valorous strike hits: 4401
valorous strike hits with darkfire: 1130 (25,7%)
This was not a rigorous test, but it should be enough to show that the uptime of the debuff doesn't change much, at least on single target. I'm sure that Lightning procs darkfire because the dummies hit by its arcs were debuffed, but the overall uptime with Lightning wasn't higher. Also note that in 12000 hits darkfire never stacked. It’s possible to stack it with certain skills, but I’m not sure if an OP can do it.
I’ll probably test burning guidance and hw next week, if I find an easy way to check them.
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Dancing_Shield Shield Slam attack by a summoned Dancing Shield is a non-stackable 20% uncapped DR debuff.
Jagged Dancing Blade doesn't have a similar attack. Instead it has an active bonus:
Active Bonus: Affects Companion
5% chance to reduce target's Defense.
It's written confusingly, but that debuff only increases the damage of companion's attacks, not the owners / allies. So yeah it's a debuff but it's only applying to companion attacks which are a pretty insignificant source of damage. That's why the Jagged Dancing Blade is not a recommended debuff companion.