Need help creating a DPS Healadin OP.

kjwashington

I'm looking to make a paladin that's balanced between tanking, healing, and dps. Though if it had to lean slightly in any direction, I would prefer healing. I was hoping anyone could recommend any builds or suggestions.

So after advice telling me that the above isn't really possible, I've decided to go with plan B. DPS healadin. The build I was planning on is this one here:
mmominds.com/2016/06/21/mod-9-devotiondps-paladin-build-neverwinter/
However, this one is slightly out of date, and I could use help getting it up to current meta.
Also, the ability score roll seems weird. Why start out at 12 wisdom for a healing build?

rjc9000

kjwashington said:

I'm looking to make a paladin that's balanced between tanking, healing, and dps. Though if it had to lean slightly in any direction, I would prefer healing. I was hoping anyone could recommend any builds or suggestions.

Maybe theoretically possible, but you'd never hit a good sweetspot between the three fields.

Paladins already have rather low damage and will never compare to an equally geared DPS player who knows their class. At best, you can contribute some chip damage with some buffed Divine Judgements and Aura of Courage.

Then we have the healing/tanking problem.

With Healadins, you never have to worry about heals ever, which leaves you with the tanking issue. It might be possible to tank some of the harder content if you were able to stack large amounts of DR/HP as well as keeping up Shield of Faith 24/7, but I have yet to see anybody try this.

With Tankadins, your tanking issue is solved, which leaves you with the healing issue. It might be theoretically possible to run a full Light build and heal with your shield (Sanctuary) and tank things, but then you'd have no time to DPS things.

The above postulates are, theoretical of course. I have yet to see anyone do this successfully.

And you know what they say about the jack of all stats...

"Jack of all stats, master of none".

(best avoid the latter part of the phrase)

Personally, I would stick to a Heals + Chip damage build (Healadin) or a Tanking + Chip damage build (Tankadin).

trzebiat

Like being said above, can't have three at once, you have to choose between tanking and healing. I haven't play tank so I can't speak for it, but I find playing Healadin built for DPS/buff/debuff extremely fun.

rjc9000 said:

With Healadins, you never have to worry about heals ever, which leaves you with the tanking issue. It might be possible to tank some of the harder content if you were able to stack large amounts of DR/HP as well as keeping up Shield of Faith 24/7, but I have yet to see anybody try this.

Healadins lack skills that increase DR/HP or mitigate damage. There's only Shield of Faith for mitigating damage and Heroism for Temp HP and DR. Taking aggro is not that hard thanks to crazy heals but tanking on Healadin comes to healing fast enough through damage which is dependent on party members being in close proximity due to Bond of Virtue and Sanctuary and you can't heal those one shots and that's the problem. At 2.5-2.8k I could tank in elol using Heroism (140k HP, 40% base DR plus Heroism, Negation and Valorous Strike), easier with Lostmauth than both scorpions when it comes to standing in AoE. I haven't tried harder dungeons but I don't think it would work, maybe if you're heavily geared with best gear and R12 enchants.

rjc9000 said:

And you know what they say about the jack of all stats...

"Jack of all stats, master of none".

"Jack of all trades, master of none, often better than master of one".

kjwashington

So the general consensus that I'm seeing is that it can't work. All right, plan B! Healadin built for dps. I couldn't really find a mod 10 build, but the most recent one I could find was this:
mmominds.com/2016/06/21/mod-9-devotiondps-paladin-build-neverwinter/

Should I be aware of anything that might make this build bad now, or are there any ways to improve it now? One thing I noticed is that they didn't roll for a high wisdom score (which seems weird for a healing focus) but then gave points to it. Should I roll for a high wisdom score and then also put points into it?

andreask

kjwashington said:

So the general consensus that I'm seeing is that it can't work. All right, plan B! Healadin built for dps. I couldn't really find a mod 10 build, but the most recent one I could find was this:
mmominds.com/2016/06/21/mod-9-devotiondps-paladin-build-neverwinter/

Should I be aware of anything that might make this build bad now, or are there any ways to improve it now? One thing I noticed is that they didn't roll for a high wisdom score (which seems weird for a healing focus) but then gave points to it. Should I roll for a high wisdom score and then also put points into it?

I am a new player and a Healadin with some DPS is what I aim for as well. Can anyone give any extra tips that reflect the changes in latest mod compared to the linked guide?

rjc9000

trzebiat#2067 said:

Like being said above, can't have three at once, you have to choose between tanking and healing. I haven't play tank so I can't speak for it, but I find playing Healadin built for DPS/buff/debuff extremely fun.

rjc9000 said:

With Healadins, you never have to worry about heals ever, which leaves you with the tanking issue. It might be possible to tank some of the harder content if you were able to stack large amounts of DR/HP as well as keeping up Shield of Faith 24/7, but I have yet to see anybody try this.

Healadins lack skills that increase DR/HP or mitigate damage. There's only Shield of Faith for mitigating damage and Heroism for Temp HP and DR. Taking aggro is not that hard thanks to crazy heals but tanking on Healadin comes to healing fast enough through damage which is dependent on party members being in close proximity due to Bond of Virtue and Sanctuary and you can't heal those one shots and that's the problem. At 2.5-2.8k I could tank in elol using Heroism (140k HP, 40% base DR plus Heroism, Negation and Valorous Strike), easier with Lostmauth than both scorpions when it comes to standing in AoE. I haven't tried harder dungeons but I don't think it would work, maybe if you're heavily geared with best gear and R12 enchants.

rjc9000 said:

And you know what they say about the jack of all stats...

"Jack of all stats, master of none".

"Jack of all trades, master of none, often better than master of one".

eh, details details. You got what I was trying to say!

:P

andreask#1780 said:

kjwashington said:

So the general consensus that I'm seeing is that it can't work. All right, plan B! Healadin built for dps. I couldn't really find a mod 10 build, but the most recent one I could find was this:
mmominds.com/2016/06/21/mod-9-devotiondps-paladin-build-neverwinter/

Should I be aware of anything that might make this build bad now, or are there any ways to improve it now? One thing I noticed is that they didn't roll for a high wisdom score (which seems weird for a healing focus) but then gave points to it. Should I roll for a high wisdom score and then also put points into it?

I am a new player and a Healadin with some DPS is what I aim for as well. Can anyone give any extra tips that reflect the changes in latest mod compared to the linked guide?

If you're on PC, don't pick up an Owlbear, it's full of RIP. Unless you're a SW.

And also, I don't get why this person picked up Wrathful Strikes, since most of your DPS comes from Divine Judgement/Aura of Courage/Burning Guidance. But I suppose a small buff to your at-wills helps occasionally.

nic1985

The main sources of damages from healadin in party that I noticed, looking at combat logs are Burning Guidance and Healing Warmth boons.

I was running CN with a healdin that was procting Burning Guidance and Healing Warmth 3x-4x every few seconds at 2K-6K each proc, the combat log was just full of those two procs. I was impressed! The healdin out dps/out healed me of course, i was the tank.

I tried/tested the two boons on my Protection/Justice Pally, the two boons doesn't proc as much but the damages was decent. Burning Guiddance was procting 2x most time, and Healing Warmth procs frequent.

trzebiat

@rjc9000 And on PS4 there's no Owlbear Cub to begin with. Personally I'm not a fun of builds that are completely based on one single item. You make it the core of the build adjusting all stats to it and one change to it like the nerf to Owlbear Cub and your build is ruined.

I've also took Wrathful Strike instead 6% recharge speed but only because I already had good amount of Recovery (7-9k) plus 25% from Aura of Wisdom, and in boss fights any extra recharge speed is wasted when you run three passive encounters. And that 6% has small impact on cooldowns if you already have high recharge speed and Recovery due to the way how it reduces cooldown times.

@kjwashington Personally I wouldn't recommend that build you mention for DPS Healadin because of couple reasons. First, Owlbear Cub as the core to get most of the damage from each tick of Burning Light, already nerfed on PC, not released on PS4. Second, it's inconsistent, it aims for low crit yet putting points in wisdom which gives more crit chance and using dread which increases crit severity for encounters, and also not investing in constitution to max out HP for Aura of Courage.

For my DPS Healadin I went for crit build, CON/CHA (going for WIS for healing is overkill and not worth it) and feat that increases crit chance per charisma point. High focus on HP and Arpen, then Crit and Recovery, less on Power because it comes from other sources. The total amount of my damage dealt when compared to similar level DPS classes still surprise me. And them too. I wanted to share my build anyway for quite some time because most of the ones available are outdated and/or not viable on PS4, but I was waiting for double refinement first. I'll do so when I'm done with writting everything down in case someone is interested.

btairborne

My main is a Healadin (3.2K IL). That build may be good for recharge speed but I like higher WIS for better critical chance. Remember Crit chance not only increases your damage but also helps crit heals so increases healing ability. I feel this is probably necessary on a DPS feated paladin. Strongest DPS potential is going WIS/CHA, CON isn't really needed since you shouldn't be tanking.

trzebiat

@btairborne Constitution increases your HP which also affects the damage done by Aura of Courage which is big part of your total damage. And getting more HP is not that easy as getting more crit you could get from Wisdom. Keep in mind you can get HP only from gear, artifacts, enchantments, boons and mount, but you can get crit also from rings and especially bondings. Going for CON instead WIS is simply better, HP increases both your damage and survivability and allows you to stand in AoE to shield your allies and immediately heal them up after the big hit. Increased healing from Wisdom is useless, you already heal for crazy amounts with Bond of Virtue (last boon from Maze Engine is worth to mention here), and you can get crit chance from Charisma instead of Wisdom. With 12/13 points in Wisdom I see crit heals between 100-300k, and occasionally even over 500k non crit heals from Divine Touch. I sit at 46% crit chance from gear and Charisma before bondings, 3.1k IL with mostly R9 enchants.

beckylunatic

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1225403/doing-it-all-wrong-devop-easy-mode-for-soloing

bbrightstone

I've been running something very similar to beckylunatic's build quite successfully since paladins became available. I had some major anger going when vow of enmity stopped working reliably with 10.5, but I've since gotten my big girl panties on and dealt with it. If you don't know what happened, I'll explain:

Old way: vow of enmity was a long term debuff you put on a single target that increased your personal damage against that target and acted like a DC's Astral Seal. Everyone that damages that target gets a heal. The synergy with Vow and Bond of Virtue meant that with occasional Burning Light casts, you could keep an eDemo healed without even trying. When the mob died or the timer expired, you could recast Vow on any other target as needed. The only problems I ever had with this skill was if targetting messed up and I put it on the wrong enemy or if you put it on a Tiamat head, it wouldn't go away after the head died because it wasn't the whole enemy.

New way: Vow now works on a toggle, very similar to Bond of Virtue. I expected it to be identical, but there are some glitches that make it nearly impossible to use. With Bond and Vow, if you are controlled, even for a millisecond, the toggle turns off. With Bond, the timer immediately starts and can be turned back on as soon as the timer counts down or if Echoes of Light resets your cooldowns. This is slightly annoying but works fine if you can plan for it. With Vow, the timer starts up if you are controlled or if your mob dies or if you toggle it off. However, if the mob dies and the timer starts, and you recast it on another mob, it doesn't cast and starts the timer over again. The marker at the mob's feet also will sometimes not appear even if the cast was successful, so there is no real way to tell if it's even working. This means we can't rely on it to keep our party healed.

Solution: For solo, I've found that it's easier to suck it up and use Divine Touch for the big groups that put out a lot of damage (frost giants, etc.) The self heal from Vow meant that you could fully charge your Burning Light without worrying if you took damage, since BL would just fill your HP right back up within a couple ticks. Now, with the unreliability of Vow, you need your self-heal from another source. Divine Touch is overkill, as far as healing goes, and the "heavy radiant damage" doesn't actually seem to do that much damage, but at least you never die. So my encounter loadout changes a bit depending on what I'm doing now. If it's heavy damage coming my way, Templar's Wrath, Burning Light, and Divine Touch. If I'm just powering through and not taking much damage, which is essentially every zone but WoD and IWD, including the new areas, Templar's Wrath, Burning Light, and Smite. Since I use an augment because I'm too poor to afford bondings, I will sometimes use Aura of Solitude for the increased damage. Note, this will not work with any friendlies nearby, including NPC's that are helping you, such as Cattie Brie or the Frost Giant princess.

I'm still working on my group presence, since I rarely do much grouping anymore. Without Vow, for things like SH Dragons or Orcus, I'll slot Bond of Virtue, Burning Light, Cleansing Touch/Divine Touch as necessary, and switch out Radiant Strike for Cure Wounds. These are heavier healing skills and limit my personal DPS, but if I can keep 3 real DPS classes alive, the net group output is higher. For lesser damage, such as baby Demo, I just go with Bond, BL, and Smite or Templar's Wrath. I'm generally top 3 Paingiver with 15-25M damage on babyDemo in my alliance, and still keep everyone alive.

treesclimber

Well this is a good build according to current game standards and trend
https://nwcalc.com/index.html#/op?b=2qa0:zbutob:aadf:9by01,13clu43:15u55u1:1000000:1uu5000&h=1&p=ood&o=0

ghoulz66

Eh despite warnings I went for an owlbear cub anyway. Being justice I spam encounters more often than I get to spam at-wills anyway so I can focus on power, recovery, and ArP.

If I went back for a crit build I'd want a companion properly decked out to buff my crit further.

Would have to compete to wield one of my P vorpals anyway, one is always on my HR and the other is shuffled around my other DPS. Burning light still does work with the bonus.

demonmonger

Get a shadow demon, beef it up... you'll be fine.

trzebiat

@bbrightstone thanks for this explanation on Vow, I was worried about it this will seriously change my playstyle when it'll get on PS4 but it doesn't sound that bad. I just hope the bugs with it will be fixed by then and it will work like before with toggle option being an addition.

@kjwashington @btairborne regarding to what I said before, higher Wisdom is irrelevant, even for DPS/crit build as Constitution is much more beneficial. I don't see many new videos on Devotion Paladin, except few from couple months ago, so I thought I'll share this Castle Never run if that's okay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIz9Wgvkgn4

In short, my feats: http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/op?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,1xi3153:1uu547p:1000000:1uu5000&h=1&p=ood&o=0 (also Force of Will 3/3 that's not showing there). All points into CON/CHA (starting with 18/16). I use 3/4 Dusk and 1/4 Drow, Drow shirt and pants, Black Ice set, Rising Focus and Defense for rings, Radiants for HP in defense, Silvery in offense for Recovery. Negation in armor, and Perfect Plague Fire in weapon for debuff. Wheel of Elements (as main), Black Ice Beholder, DC Sigil, OP Sigil, Twisted weapon set. Stats focused on HP and Arpen, then Crit and Recovery. Not the best companions setup - epic Rust Monster, uncommon Young Yeti, rare Wererat Thief and rare Earth Archon for active bonus. Epic Con Artist as summoned for the debuff, rank 10/9/9 bondings with Rising Power and Focus (to be replaced with Precision) and Sudden Precision rings, Azures for Defense, Black Ice/Demonic/Vicious for Power/Crit/Recovery/Arpen. At-wills - Radiant Strike and Oath Strike. Passives - Aura of Courage and Wisdom always slotted. For Heralds in WoD I swap Wisdom for Life though, and when running with ProtOP who has offhand bonus for Courage I take Truth. Solo encounters - Burning Light, Smite and Vow of Enmity/Divine Touch/Templar's Wrath (TW only for lower level enemies). In party, for trash - Burning Light, Bond of Virtue and Divine Touch/Vow of Enmity (depending on the amount and the type of enemies). For single target boss fights - Bane, Bond of Virtue, Vow of Enmity. Play style when in party - basically full DPS for trash, buff/DPS for bosses with adds, full buff/debuff for single target boss fights. So it comes to using Wheel of Elements (fire buff) on myself or top DPS (if he doesn't have it - I usually run with GWF who uses the Lantern) and in single target boss fights using Bane to debuff the boss and buff top DPS trying to keep three marks on both. That works extremely good for me.

I even tried PvP for the first time recently even though I'm built for PvE and it was quite fun, I only took 2/4 Warborn for Tenacity keeping 2/4 Dusk and changed Rising Focus for Sudden Precision. Also taking different powers. I only tried DPS instead of heal oriented setup. Valorous Strike instead of Oath and for powers I went with Relentless Avenger, Smite and Cleansing Touch. I played about 9 matches of Domination so far with couple friends but I'm positively surprised, even lost matches were very entertaining.

majorcharvenak

bbrightstone said:

I've been running something very similar to beckylunatic's build quite successfully since paladins became available. I had some major anger going when vow of enmity stopped working reliably with 10.5, but I've since gotten my big girl panties on and dealt with it. If you don't know what happened, I'll explain:

Old way: vow of enmity was a long term debuff you put on a single target that increased your personal damage against that target and acted like a DC's Astral Seal. Everyone that damages that target gets a heal. The synergy with Vow and Bond of Virtue meant that with occasional Burning Light casts, you could keep an eDemo healed without even trying. When the mob died or the timer expired, you could recast Vow on any other target as needed. The only problems I ever had with this skill was if targetting messed up and I put it on the wrong enemy or if you put it on a Tiamat head, it wouldn't go away after the head died because it wasn't the whole enemy.

New way: Vow now works on a toggle, very similar to Bond of Virtue. I expected it to be identical, but there are some glitches that make it nearly impossible to use. With Bond and Vow, if you are controlled, even for a millisecond, the toggle turns off. With Bond, the timer immediately starts and can be turned back on as soon as the timer counts down or if Echoes of Light resets your cooldowns. This is slightly annoying but works fine if you can plan for it. With Vow, the timer starts up if you are controlled or if your mob dies or if you toggle it off. However, if the mob dies and the timer starts, and you recast it on another mob, it doesn't cast and starts the timer over again. The marker at the mob's feet also will sometimes not appear even if the cast was successful, so there is no real way to tell if it's even working. This means we can't rely on it to keep our party healed.

Solution: For solo, I've found that it's easier to suck it up and use Divine Touch for the big groups that put out a lot of damage (frost giants, etc.) The self heal from Vow meant that you could fully charge your Burning Light without worrying if you took damage, since BL would just fill your HP right back up within a couple ticks. Now, with the unreliability of Vow, you need your self-heal from another source. Divine Touch is overkill, as far as healing goes, and the "heavy radiant damage" doesn't actually seem to do that much damage, but at least you never die. So my encounter loadout changes a bit depending on what I'm doing now. If it's heavy damage coming my way, Templar's Wrath, Burning Light, and Divine Touch. If I'm just powering through and not taking much damage, which is essentially every zone but WoD and IWD, including the new areas, Templar's Wrath, Burning Light, and Smite. Since I use an augment because I'm too poor to afford bondings, I will sometimes use Aura of Solitude for the increased damage. Note, this will not work with any friendlies nearby, including NPC's that are helping you, such as Cattie Brie or the Frost Giant princess.

I'm still working on my group presence, since I rarely do much grouping anymore. Without Vow, for things like SH Dragons or Orcus, I'll slot Bond of Virtue, Burning Light, Cleansing Touch/Divine Touch as necessary, and switch out Radiant Strike for Cure Wounds. These are heavier healing skills and limit my personal DPS, but if I can keep 3 real DPS classes alive, the net group output is higher. For lesser damage, such as baby Demo, I just go with Bond, BL, and Smite or Templar's Wrath. I'm generally top 3 Paingiver with 15-25M damage on babyDemo in my alliance, and still keep everyone alive.

+1 THIS! This is exactly how you need to run it these days with Vow being situational vice an auto include like it used to be. The old synergy of Bond and Vow still work, however it comes with risk and folks need to plan ahead and adjust their rotation depending on their situation. Now I know most of the posts I've seen don't highlight RA but I keep that in my rotation for soloing. Up in Cold Run or in SMI, where the mobs hit hard, I tend to keep Vow slotted, but will suppliment it with Divine Touch for the clutch heal while Vow is on cooldown and slam RA for additional damage and AP gain. The knockback helps keep the weaker mobs off while you hack away at whatever your principle target is. It also discourages the occassional DPS troll from coming in and mowing down the trash mobs you need to kill for the various quests (making the time you spent hacking away at the wasted since the game doesnt seem to always give you the credit). Wash, rinse, repeat. In groups, I'll either swap RA out for burning lights or smite and just hold off using RA until a boss fight and slot Bond in place of DT. You just have to plan and make adjustments and not go in cold.

trzebiat

rjc9000 said:

kjwashington said:

I'm looking to make a paladin that's balanced between tanking, healing, and dps. Though if it had to lean slightly in any direction, I would prefer healing. I was hoping anyone could recommend any builds or suggestions.

Maybe theoretically possible, but you'd never hit a good sweetspot between the three fields.

Paladins already have rather low damage and will never compare to an equally geared DPS player who knows their class. At best, you can contribute some chip damage with some buffed Divine Judgements and Aura of Courage.

Then we have the healing/tanking problem.

With Healadins, you never have to worry about heals ever, which leaves you with the tanking issue. It might be possible to tank some of the harder content if you were able to stack large amounts of DR/HP as well as keeping up Shield of Faith 24/7, but I have yet to see anybody try this.

With Tankadins, your tanking issue is solved, which leaves you with the healing issue. It might be theoretically possible to run a full Light build and heal with your shield (Sanctuary) and tank things, but then you'd have no time to DPS things.

The above postulates are, theoretical of course. I have yet to see anyone do this successfully.

And you know what they say about the jack of all stats...

"Jack of all stats, master of none".

(best avoid the latter part of the phrase)

Personally, I would stick to a Heals + Chip damage build (Healadin) or a Tanking + Chip damage build (Tankadin).

@rjc9000
I have to get back to you about that sweet spot regarding Healadin. I reached the point where it starts being ridiculous. Often dealing more damage than some of my guild mates with similar or a little bit below mine level DPS classes, and that's considering using Divine Judgement, Burning Light and Divine Touch or Vow of Enmity on trash, while going full buff/debuff on bosses with Bane. I even placed 5th on paingiver in failed (almost successful) Tiamat run with 70 mil without using any damaging powers except Divine Judgement. And it's even more funny when it comes to tanking. No issues keeping Demo busy while also keeping everyone alive. I don't know where do you mean harder content starts, but with buff DC who knows what he's doing we no longer need tank even for Orcus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TkmU_J8Icg While, sure, AA immunity helps a lot, especially at the start before Negation and bondings kick in, without it and just with other buffs I can still take a punch without having Temp HP and heal through that damage immediately. Can't compare to dedicated tank class as being more dependent on team for healing with Bond of Virtue and DC for buffs on hard hitting bosses, but in premade team it works amazing. Friends say I'm taking their job now.

rjc9000

trzebiat#2067 said:

rjc9000 said:

kjwashington said:

I'm looking to make a paladin that's balanced between tanking, healing, and dps. Though if it had to lean slightly in any direction, I would prefer healing. I was hoping anyone could recommend any builds or suggestions.

Maybe theoretically possible, but you'd never hit a good sweetspot between the three fields.

Paladins already have rather low damage and will never compare to an equally geared DPS player who knows their class. At best, you can contribute some chip damage with some buffed Divine Judgements and Aura of Courage.

Then we have the healing/tanking problem.

With Healadins, you never have to worry about heals ever, which leaves you with the tanking issue. It might be possible to tank some of the harder content if you were able to stack large amounts of DR/HP as well as keeping up Shield of Faith 24/7, but I have yet to see anybody try this.

With Tankadins, your tanking issue is solved, which leaves you with the healing issue. It might be theoretically possible to run a full Light build and heal with your shield (Sanctuary) and tank things, but then you'd have no time to DPS things.

The above postulates are, theoretical of course. I have yet to see anyone do this successfully.

And you know what they say about the jack of all stats...

"Jack of all stats, master of none".

(best avoid the latter part of the phrase)

Personally, I would stick to a Heals + Chip damage build (Healadin) or a Tanking + Chip damage build (Tankadin).

@rjc9000
I have to get back to you about that sweet spot regarding Healadin. I reached the point where it starts being ridiculous. Often dealing more damage than some of my guild mates with similar or a little bit below mine level DPS classes, and that's considering using Divine Judgement, Burning Light and Divine Touch or Vow of Enmity on trash, while going full buff/debuff on bosses with Bane. I even placed 5th on paingiver in failed (almost successful) Tiamat run with 70 mil without using any damaging powers except Divine Judgement. And it's even more funny when it comes to tanking. No issues keeping Demo busy while also keeping everyone alive. I don't know where do you mean harder content starts, but with buff DC who knows what he's doing we no longer need tank even for Orcus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TkmU_J8Icg While, sure, AA immunity helps a lot, especially at the start before Negation and bondings kick in, without it and just with other buffs I can still take a punch without having Temp HP and heal through that damage immediately. Can't compare to dedicated tank class as being more dependent on team for healing with Bond of Virtue and DC for buffs on hard hitting bosses, but in premade team it works amazing. Friends say I'm taking their job now.

I see. Congratulations!

(I wish that the Healadin Bane was applied in an AoE ala Aura, but then again, that might cause the Healadin to be too broken with a buff skill comparable to EmpBtS, alongside the Healadin's amazing heals, innate defenses, and okay chip damage).

I still feel that if a DPSer who with a good build and comparable gear races for DPS against your Healadin, your Healadin will lose every time.

By "harder content", I refer to FBI and Svard. I think that a Healadin will have issues on FBI's Dragon turtle and versus the Svardborg boss's IBS, although AA cheeses both instances at the moment.

trzebiat

rjc9000 said:

trzebiat#2067 said:

rjc9000 said:

kjwashington said:

I'm looking to make a paladin that's balanced between tanking, healing, and dps. Though if it had to lean slightly in any direction, I would prefer healing. I was hoping anyone could recommend any builds or suggestions.

Maybe theoretically possible, but you'd never hit a good sweetspot between the three fields.

Paladins already have rather low damage and will never compare to an equally geared DPS player who knows their class. At best, you can contribute some chip damage with some buffed Divine Judgements and Aura of Courage.

Then we have the healing/tanking problem.

With Healadins, you never have to worry about heals ever, which leaves you with the tanking issue. It might be possible to tank some of the harder content if you were able to stack large amounts of DR/HP as well as keeping up Shield of Faith 24/7, but I have yet to see anybody try this.

With Tankadins, your tanking issue is solved, which leaves you with the healing issue. It might be theoretically possible to run a full Light build and heal with your shield (Sanctuary) and tank things, but then you'd have no time to DPS things.

The above postulates are, theoretical of course. I have yet to see anyone do this successfully.

And you know what they say about the jack of all stats...

"Jack of all stats, master of none".

(best avoid the latter part of the phrase)

Personally, I would stick to a Heals + Chip damage build (Healadin) or a Tanking + Chip damage build (Tankadin).

@rjc9000
I have to get back to you about that sweet spot regarding Healadin. I reached the point where it starts being ridiculous. Often dealing more damage than some of my guild mates with similar or a little bit below mine level DPS classes, and that's considering using Divine Judgement, Burning Light and Divine Touch or Vow of Enmity on trash, while going full buff/debuff on bosses with Bane. I even placed 5th on paingiver in failed (almost successful) Tiamat run with 70 mil without using any damaging powers except Divine Judgement. And it's even more funny when it comes to tanking. No issues keeping Demo busy while also keeping everyone alive. I don't know where do you mean harder content starts, but with buff DC who knows what he's doing we no longer need tank even for Orcus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TkmU_J8Icg While, sure, AA immunity helps a lot, especially at the start before Negation and bondings kick in, without it and just with other buffs I can still take a punch without having Temp HP and heal through that damage immediately. Can't compare to dedicated tank class as being more dependent on team for healing with Bond of Virtue and DC for buffs on hard hitting bosses, but in premade team it works amazing. Friends say I'm taking their job now.

I see. Congratulations!

(I wish that the Healadin Bane was applied in an AoE ala Aura, but then again, that might cause the Healadin to be too broken with a buff skill comparable to EmpBtS, alongside the Healadin's amazing heals, innate defenses, and okay chip damage).

I still feel that if a DPSer who with a good build and comparable gear races for DPS against your Healadin, your Healadin will lose every time.

By "harder content", I refer to FBI and Svard. I think that a Healadin will have issues on FBI's Dragon turtle and versus the Svardborg boss's IBS, although AA cheeses both instances at the moment.

Thanks. Yeah, competing with dedicated DPSer with good build and gear it's pretty obvious who wins in a long run, no chance to beat GWF, very possible to win on trash mobs with some classes that excel on single targets though. DPS was never the goal, but it's nice to see getting close or above dedicated DPS players, support is still primary role. Overall I think worth the spot in team instead another DPS even with lower overall DPS because of the buffs from auras (Courage and Wisdom) and especially Bane on single target which is amazing power. I haven't unlocked FBI yet (working on boons first) and I don't even know what Svard looks like (PS4 way behind PC), but I pretty much always run with premade groups with DC so that shouldn't be problem. The synergy between Healadin and DC is great, taking the healing aspect off of DC, buffs from auras, Bane on target and ally, weapon enchant, companion etc. if set up for buff/debuff, SoF if needed and good damage, and if there's GF tank instead OP no issues with running the same auras (but I suppose Life can be good on FBI hearing that people switch to Soulforged there). I'll say it's absolutely worth over DPS. Sadly people don't see it that way and all they ask is usually just buff/debuff DC.

malichil

tzrebiat: Are you still seeing the same damage? I felt the same as you about Dev OP dps, but this week I've gone from 20+ million in Demo to not even breaking into top 5, and from 20m eLoL to around 3m.

It "feels" like I have the same damage output (prism procs correlate with dropping health bars), but I've disappeared from DPS and "Enemies killed" leaderboards overnight (the latter one I was always topping).

majorcharvenak

nic1985 said:

The main sources of damages from healadin in party that I noticed, looking at combat logs are Burning Guidance and Healing Warmth boons.

I was running CN with a healdin that was procting Burning Guidance and Healing Warmth 3x-4x every few seconds at 2K-6K each proc, the combat log was just full of those two procs. I was impressed! The healdin out dps/out healed me of course, i was the tank.

I tried/tested the two boons on my Protection/Justice Pally, the two boons doesn't proc as much but the damages was decent. Burning Guiddance was procting 2x most time, and Healing Warmth procs frequent.

Its because burning guidance and healing warmth on the Devotion paladin procs and is spread to more targets through Vow + Bond, along with the swinging from Oath strike, Burning lights (or Smite) or Divine touch (or standing in sanctuary). It just works better on a Devotion than a Protection in that regard. Now thats not to say it doesn't have some value for a Prot Pally. I think it does. It's just the two will proc more (and spread to more targets) though the Devo's healing mechanics and abilities than it will a prot paladin. Ahhh...I missed the days when Burning guidance and Prism were..."unleashed." >:) We could stop time...Literally!

trzebiat

@malichil Hey, I saw your post on reddit. I don't think I noticed any difference, but it's hard to tell to be honest. One - I just unlocked last boon from SKT and don't know exactly how much boost in DPS it gives yet, second - it was a while since I played CN with tank in my group, we now go with 3 good DPS and DC. And when there's more strong DPSers and mobs die quicker I'm losing a lot of damage because until I charge Burning Light and it'll damage with all ticks enemies are usually dead already. In CN I still end up with 35-50 mil with no tank depending how strong the group is, more when running with a tank (who isn't Conq GF). But running normal demo with two good DPS I still end up with good damage right behind them. I'd have to do some more tests. In edemo I usually place 4th or 5th on paingiver, always top or high for most kills. Here's a screenshot from edemo some time ago I saved because... You'll see why. http://i.imgur.com/oscQmsQ.jpg

malichil

@trzebiat#2067 Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I guess I'll look into what happened if it isn't happening with anyone else.

In that same timeframe (past week) I've unlocked a few other boons, that may be conflicting with BG procs/damage. But there is definitely a huge difference in my damage numbers independent of group makeup between a week ago and now. I haven't been this low in #s since before I unlocked Burning Guidance.

Just tested in an eLoL without companion and no damage abilities (only cure wounds, shield daily, bane, vow, bond), and burning guidance is being registered, but feels low compared to the past (1.5m damage for run).

Will research more and post if I can determine what happened so others can avoid.

Update: It seems to have been the "Rousing Warmth" boon from ID. I'd unlocked it right around the time I noticed the damage drop, and respeccing the same just without it, I've seen my damage return to the previous ranges.

gaidin

With the change of Vow to a 10 sec duration with 10 sec cooldown, any suggestions for a Healadin updated build? My wife plays the 2.6k healadin, so I admit that my experience and amount of ability to playtest to find a good build are limited, and she leaves the research to me to get her up to speed. Mainly, I have no idea what to do with what goals she should have for stats. Her build currently is high recovery (10k) and power(11k), low crit (from prior to owlbear cub nerf) with -60% Res. ignored. She'll soon have greater bondings in a fire archon (not sure if this is the best Pally companion, but I know it's a good DPS option and has 2 ring slots) to replace the owlbear cub augment. Any advice would be appreciated!

kinganuthin

I personally think the change to vow is good. More encounters means more CD for party. Plus, it can be really annoying to mark something you should not have, or something no one wanta to hit yet.
My only change will be to add some recovery.

rubytrue

I, too, like the newest fix to Vow. With any type of recovery, you can put it on two or more mobs no problem. I have next to no recovery on my build and it refreshes in a little over 6 seconds. If you rely on prism, burning guidance, and/or healing warmth for a lot of dps, it is golden again.

majorcharvenak

Gaidan, Like Kinganuthin and rubytrue mentioned, the change to Vow is very welcome and it shouldn't really change her much (if at all). The way it works now is when you cast it, the cooldown will start, but with her recovery being what it is, the cooldown will be over before the effect ends, allowing for another recast on the target. Now the damage buff wont stack, but what doing it that way will do is keep the damage buff and healing effect almost continously on her target and if she is running Bond as well, will keep one of her biggest sources of passive healing for her and her group engaged and restoring health. It almost acts like it did before they applied the 'fix' when SoMI when live, but with the flexibility to switch targets if needed. Hope that all made sense. Now I'm definately not one of the build sages and only thing I could recommend is perhaps she boosts her crit for the crit heals. However, I would recommend you post her build here for the experts to take a look at so they can give her any good tips on what she could improve. Them's my two coppers.

michaelrn1982

The standard Healadin build is fine even with the changes to vow (and yes, it is definitely welcomed). I personally use Divine Touch as my main healing (seen up to 500k+ heals from it). If you're using the Justice spec (with capstone), keep in mind that your Divine Call also a reduce all timers by 35%. Here is a list of other things you can do to reduce your cool downs to almost nothing.

Aura of Wisdom - 25% @ Rank 4
Vengeful Judge - 35% as long as you have Divine Call
Any grade of Lightning Enchantment - 2% on the first hit, 1% per chain. (this maxes at 5% max with the 3 chains) This is also per hit/attack
Recovery From Attribute - 1% per Int (most builds do not use Int, but its out there).
Recovery from Stat - Every 200 points = 1% (by research only, will test this once I am in front of my computer and online).