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[PC] Mod 16 PvE Washed Up Fighter Tank Guide

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  • spectrekot#5644 spectrekot Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    takashi51 said:

    Human it is best race for tactic?

    Drow.

    For its racial Darkfire debuff.
    Ok thanks, i will play for drow
  • shazza53shazza53 Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    Hi. Can you comment on the role of a “buff GF?” There seems to be more interest in having a tact GF along, especially for Cradle runs.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,373 Arc User
    shazza53 said:

    Hi. Can you comment on the role of a “buff GF?” There seems to be more interest in having a tact GF along, especially for Cradle runs.

    Since I don't use the term, I can only guess what it means, but I suspect it is a purely defensive/utility setup, much like the setup I outline in the build, taking all the defensive feats to stay alive versus the baby spit and takes items/feats that debuff (ex: Crushing Pin, Frost enchant) or buff (ex: Stronghold set or Inspiring Leader).

    I don't think the role differs much from your typical GF fundamentals: hold Shield, use your goddamn Mark (too many GFs cannot mark things, pls kick them from groups for failing at their job), bait enemies, use ITF, don't die.

    But if I have the definition right, then it is for groups made by the uninformed or groups made by someone who wants to chase max epeen.

    The problem I see with Tactician is... what does it uniquely offer over a Conqueror setup? The only noticeable advantage Tactician has over Conqueror is Inspiring Leader, because Quick Action/Artificer's renders Rousing Speech unnoticeable, and Martial Mastery is a violation of common sense.

    Will that 5% damage buff (10.25 if you double stack it) really cause the run to go so much faster over a Conqueror GF assisting in the boss burns?

    The only way I'd see teams specifically going out of their way to get a Tactician is so they can boost their epeen without a Conqueror GF "stealing" their DPS. Or they are a subdivision of the Cult of the MoF and somehow think a Tactician GF buffs ridiculously better than any other GF, for some reason.

  • shazza53shazza53 Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    Sorry for my late thank you for the response. I get where you are coming from, but requesting a tactical GF for buffing is becoming very prominent with some “melt” groups ... especially for Cradle. I guess the Tac GF takes ITF and also uses Commander’s Strike -this seems to work well in a group with a GWF and “DPS” GF. This frees up an encounter for the DPS GF.

    I’m going to try it this week. I normally run on my Paladin, but we have lots of Paladins (and not enough MoF CWs at the moment), so we will see if the Tact GF adds any value to the group.

    If I understood your comments, you were also suggesting the second GF doesn’t have to go tactician, it could potentially offer more value staying in the conqueror path. Anyway, thanks for putting up with my ramblings :)
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,104 Arc User
    thnx again

    read through it. learn't plenty. had a laugh. good stuff.

    didn't teach me about punctuation and capitols tho
  • momo#1628 momo Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Hi everyone.

    Thanks for the guide. It is extremely valuable. Although I have already gone far from this guide I still use it as a base reference.

    Have a question though about companions for tactician.

    What about Tamed Velociraptor? Doesn't it help the whole group?
    Or everyone should have one of those so the bonus apply?
    The description is vague there

    Personally I use:
    Shield
    Energon
    Rust monster
    Sylph
    +Chicken, Tamed Velociraptor or any other which I think is better for me at the moment.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,373 Arc User
    momo#1628 said:


    What about Tamed Velociraptor? Doesn't it help the whole group?

    Or everyone should have one of those so the bonus apply?

    The Tamed Velociraptor is ... weird to explain.

    The Tamed Velociraptor damage buff will only to a person using a Raptor, and the % damage buff will only calculate for people in your party running a Velociraptor.

    So, for example, say I got a party of GWF/GF/TR/DC/CW.
    If the GF, DC, TR, and CW use a Velociraptor, but the GWF does not, then the GF/DC/TR/CW receive 4% from the Velociraptor and the GWF receives 0% from the Velociraptor.

    In a perfect world, you'd want everyone in the party to run one, since a 5x Raptor party is amongst the strongest of +damage% companions. The Raptor only loses to the Earth/Air Archons (and lolfirearchon), matches the War Boar/Batiri, and beats everything else available in Module 13.

  • momo#1628 momo Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    > @rjc9000 said:
    > What about Tamed Velociraptor? Doesn't it help the whole group?
    >
    > Or everyone should have one of those so the bonus apply?
    >
    > The Tamed Velociraptor is ... weird to explain.
    >
    > The Tamed Velociraptor damage buff will only to a person using a Raptor, and the % damage buff will only calculate for people in your party running a Velociraptor.
    >
    > So, for example, say I got a party of GWF/GF/TR/DC/CW.
    > If the GF, DC, TR, and CW use a Velociraptor, but the GWF does not, then the GF/DC/TR/CW receive 4% from the Velociraptor and the GWF receives 0% from the Velociraptor.
    >
    > In a perfect world, you'd want everyone in the party to run one, since a 5x Raptor party is amongst the strongest of +damage% companions. The Raptor only loses to the Earth/Air Archons (and lolfirearchon), matches the War Boar/Batiri, and beats everything else available in Module 13.

    Thanks. Pretty much what I expected.

    So my recent discovery shows that the last 5th slot for Tactician is still vacant.
    In terms that there is no other useful companion for: buffing group / debuffing mobs for the whole group

    I will write down my thoughts on Tactician in a while if you do not mind.
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    Does anyone know if Ioun Stone of Allure active companion bonus would proc crushing pin?

    @momo have you tried blacksmith? I think that there is an ICD and cap of some sort on the proc, but it helps keep mob aggro on you in the spirit of tankiness.
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Will new set for Apocalypse dagger be BiS with the defense tear for GF's?
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,373 Arc User
    stark760 said:

    Will new set for Apocalypse dagger be BiS with the defense tear for GF's?

    Not while it's bugged. Because Sacramentum (of League of Legends dead CW guide fame) and Viral found that the set places a debuff on the set bearer rather than the enemies. Once Cryptic decides to get their "QA team" fixing it, then I can see it being best in slot.

    The Vistani set is somewhat similar, placing a 5% debuff on enemy if you hit one target with WMS, ET, Lunging Strike, Line Breaker Assault, Villain's Menace, Terrifying Impact, or Supremacy of Steel.

    Which set you prefer will change depending on which set is easier to acquire for you (farm the April Fools Event vs. gotta catch them all) and how easy the set is to apply for your style (only hit one target with one of those powers vs. applying a Crit may be easier/harder depending on the fight and your gear).

    For me personally, I will not be using either set because I can't stand doing the Portobello's Game event, and also because I barely play Tactician enough to justify dumping resources into a new artifact set.

  • superkwstarassuperkwstaras Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Do you know which of the new equipment procs Crushing Pin? Not quite sure by the tooltips
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,373 Arc User

    Do you know which of the new equipment procs Crushing Pin? Not quite sure by the tooltips

    The only new item I have tested is the Swarm mount, which hilariously procs Crushing Pin.

  • cerberusforcescerberusforces Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    Hello
    I have few "problems" and I need ask about something.
    When im started to play NW, few months ago i play with my GF like protector/tank/buff and im love it. I love e.g. KV but now it's useless, on dung like ETOS/VT/CN etc. ppl dont need this protective skill. On FBI it's hard to use, I dont play in TONG, but i heard and read is also hard to use. What do you see KV? is still good and helpful skill or now, when a lot of ppl have huge IL they dont need KV ( i think they dont need it).
    Second problem is playing as a tank. A lot of ppl say the best tank now is OP (on dung mod 13/14). So i can play still like a tank or it is rather unplayable and harder? I have a chance to compete with OP?
    And last one, when I was developing my GF i invevested on DEF, DEFL, LS, REC but now a lot of ppl want only buff/dps. Why I invested so much in my char if now I must to play only as buff/dps? I like giving buffs pt. but as a complement to the whole not only like a buff. What do you think, the situation is not so bad? And GF was still a good tank/protector/buff or not?
    I dont see to much gf now in game, 90% of them play like dps/buff.

  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,329 Arc User
    GF can tank all the content, same as OP. (have not done CR yet though) Parties wanting Paladins as tanks comes from the fact that OP buffs are stronger than GF ones. Just from being in the group, OP provides Aura Of Courage passive damage, Aura of Wisdom recharge speed buff and Aura Gifts power share. GF has nothing to compare to this.

    GF with proper gear and build can do mad damage single target, however. GF buffer isn't optimal alongside an OP tank but some groups still want this.

    Ultimately there are a number of stranded builds on many classes in this game that don't fit into the meta. You can adapt and play DPS or Buff OR you can play with friends that won't expect to have only Meta groups.

    I have both an OPP and a GF tank. I would prefer to be playing my GF the way I play my OP, but atm I just let the GF idle. Swimming upstream is hard and in the end likely to lead to burn out. I wish there were encouraging words here but the game balance is way off.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • cerberusforcescerberusforces Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    Hi
    I need ask about something, Frost still work the same? On the opponent, debuff -11% DR work 10 sec, next 10 sec "cooldown" and again you can inflict -11% DR on the same opponent? or this debuff -11% DR now work all time?
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,373 Arc User


    On the opponent, debuff -11% DR work 10 sec, next 10 sec "cooldown" and again you can inflict -11% DR on the same opponent?

    This one.

  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    I swear to god, I will literally start kicking GFs that don't use mark on bosses in endgame dungeons. ANRI FOR PRESIDENT, so he can wall all of those scrubs off.

    Anyways, good build, however, do you think tact is more or less useful than conqueror now that dps has been nerfed? And if less, what do you think will take to make tacts on-par with conquerors/OPs in dungeons?
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,373 Arc User

    I swear to god, I will literally start kicking GFs that don't use mark on bosses in endgame dungeons.

    Make a War Boar pet named "Press Tab Potato GF" (or, if you're on console, rename "tab" to whatever the mark button is).

    Every time you see the GF fail to use Tab mark (or mark), spam the pet in chat.

    ANRI FOR PRESIDENT, so he can wall all of those scrubs off.

    That will not end well, I'm telling you this right now.


    Anyways, good build, however, do you think tact is more or less useful than conqueror now that dps has been nerfed?

    How exactly has Conqueror DPS been nerfed?

    In terms of the GF's role in the team, almost anything a Tactician can do, a Conqueror can do faster and easier.

    The exceptions go to helping some classes (*coughcoughTRcoughcough*) cheese AP Gain blocks and for when your supports are not great.

    And if less, what do you think will take to make tacts on-par with conquerors/OPs in dungeons?

    Make Tactician buffs scale with their gear to give a Tactician the incentive to gear up besides Ilvl inflation and survivability as a tank.

    OP has Aura Gifts and the Protection passive which both become more potent with better gear, while Tactician ... can keep up ITF all the time and multistack Inspiring Leader.

    Not exactly an efficient use of 40 million AD.

    This is all the while Protection OP has easymodo tanking and a class feature that constitutes 15-30% of the total DPS of non second class citizen DPS classes. You would need a lot for Tactician GF to be somewhat comparable.

    I would prefer to see a version prepatch version of ITF return, exclusive to the Tactician. As to which stat it would scale off of, I don't know, I'd leave the details to the dev team.

  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,329 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    It should scale off of Control Bonus.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • cerberusforcescerberusforces Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    Hi
    What's wrong with CS (Commander's Strike). I dont see this skill now in Your guide. It's bugged or weak or useles?
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,373 Arc User

    Hi
    What's wrong with CS (Commander's Strike). I dont see this skill now in Your guide. It's bugged or weak or useles?

    I gave up on it after I realized that it only takes 40% of the DPSer's encounter damage and applies it as a second hit, rather than it being a 1.4x buff to the DPSer's next encounter power. The way I see it, any extra chip damage provided by the CS procs would be outweighed by a DPS GF using 3x fully buffed Griffon's.

    Also, seeing as the build is oriented towards newbies, I thought removing KS would keep the playbook simple: focus on learning to tank and time ITF with the buffers.

  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    Hello @rjc9000 !

    I have an item question - with the new item from hunts procing crushing pin pretty often, do you think it's wise to go for enhanced mark offhand for more debuff? Also - does damage taken with Knight's Valor can proc crushing pin via Guarded Assault?

    Thanks for the answers and for the awesome work with updating your guide every single mod! Very much appreciated! I always find something new to learn there!
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,373 Arc User


    I have an item question - with the new item from hunts procing crushing pin pretty often, do you think it's wise to go for enhanced mark offhand for more debuff?

    Yes, if you find you can easily keep up Pin with just Lycosa's/Curse Bringer.

    I do actually run Enhanced Mark offhand on my IV variant of the build, relying on Indomitable Strength with Frontline Surge+Iron Focus to consistently applying Pin. A little better for team survival and buffing, but feels a little slower than the SM build because no Steel Grace, and a little squishier because I take Iron Focus and lose out on the Jagged Blades+FR cheesing.


    Also - does damage taken with Knight's Valor can proc crushing pin via Guarded Assault?

    Yes.

  • cerberusforcescerberusforces Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    What do you think about Blood Raven Set, he has good stat, but a bonus set im think is weak. Unfortunately apocalopse set for me it has poor stat, i dont play like DPS (bonus is bugged i know). Vistani set seems to be not bad but, raiments is weak pendant is average, tarokka deck is too average. Now i still use Valhalla set, except artifact, belt and neck have good stat and bonus, but good for tank not for buff. But other sets seem to be weak.
  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    Heya.

    Maybe you guys know this already, but Celestial Stag mount power procs crushing pin in area of power for whole 8seconds. Seems a cool (and cheap!) alternative for other debuffs from mounts. Stats are quite poor though.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,373 Arc User

    What do you think about Blood Raven Set, he has good stat, but a bonus set im think is weak.

    Yes.

    Vistani set seems to be not bad but, raiments is weak pendant is average, tarokka deck is too average.

    If you've gotten to the point where you can survive just fine with just your gear/passives and already got enough ITF uptime...
    then yeah, go use the Vistani set for the 5% debuff.

    Heya.

    Maybe you guys know this already, but Celestial Stag mount power procs crushing pin in area of power for whole 8seconds. Seems a cool (and cheap!) alternative for other debuffs from mounts. Stats are quite poor though.

    Last I tried on preview, it included T-Rex and Lion as well.

    I would guess it's any mount with a CC effect that will proc Crushing Pin (ex: stun or prone).

  • cerberusforcescerberusforces Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    Hi, thx for answer.
    But this bonus from vistani set it is probably difficult to assume? It's probably work only if we have one enemy and when we use enforced threat. In other situations, this bonus will not work, right?
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,373 Arc User

    Hi, thx for answer.
    But this bonus from vistani set it is probably difficult to assume? It's probably work only if we have one enemy and when we use enforced threat. In other situations, this bonus will not work, right?

    It should be pretty easy to keep up on most bosses, though you might struggle on some bosses (see: Avatar of Orcus).

    Obviously, it's not going to work on mob fights... but mobs die so quick I don't think it will matter that much.

  • cerberusforcescerberusforces Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    Ok thx again, which other skills work well with this set? weapon master strike work with this set?
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